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Thread: Horsepower vs. Torque

  1. #1
    6th Gear Junkie Andr3w's Avatar
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    Default Horsepower vs. Torque

    Torque vs Horsepower
    The word horsepower was introduced by James Watt, the inventor of the steam engine in about 1775. Watt learned that "a strong horse could lift 150 pounds a height of 220 feet in 1 minute." One horsepower is also commonly expressed as 550 pounds one foot in one second or 33,000 pounds one foot in one minute. These are just different ways of saying the same thing. Notice these definitions includes force (pounds), distance (feet), and time, (minute, second). A horse could hold weight in a static position but this would not be considered horsepower, it would be similar to what we call torque. Adding time and distance to a static force (or to torque) results in horsepower. RPM, revolutions (distance) per minute (time), is today's equivalent of time and distance. Back to horses, imagine a horse raising coal out of a coal mine. A horse exerting one horsepower could raise 550 pounds of coal one foot every second.
    Here is an example of another way horsepower could be directly measured. Say you have a horse hitched to a plow. In the hitch is a spring scale (like a fish scale). The horse pulls the plow one foot every second and you see 550 pounds on the scale. That horse would be generating one horsepower.
    We see horsepower can be directly measured. However there is a problem directly measuring horsepower of modern day internal combustion engines because they produce rotary motion not linear motion, and unless the engine is geared down, the speed at which they do work (time and distance or RPM) is too great for practical direct measurement of horsepower. It seems logical then that the solution was to directly measure torque (rotational force eventually expressed in pounds at one foot radius) and RPM (time and distance, i.e. distance in circumference at the one foot radius) and from these calculate horsepower. Torque and RPM are easily measured directly. Early dynamometers used a brake device to load the engine. A torque arm was attached to this brake's stator. The brake's rotor was coupled to the engine's crankshaft. A spring scale or other measuring device connected the torque arm to the stationary fixture holding the engine and brake. During a test the brake's application loaded the engine. Torque and engine rpm were observed and recorded. Click here for a description of how this happens on our dyno.
    On modern day dynamometers horsepower is a calculated value. It's important to remember the dyno measures torque and rpm and then from these calculates horsepower. On the dyno it takes more water flow to the water brake to increase the load on the engine being tested. As the test engine's torque rises more water flow is needed. As the test engine's torque drops less water flow is needed. The dyno's water brake does not respond to Horsepower. Major adjustments to water flow are needed as an engine crosses its torque peak but none are needed as it crosses its horsepower peak. In other words the water flow to the brake during a dyno test follows the engines torque curve and not its horsepower curve. Torque is what twists the tire, prop, or pump. Horsepower helps us understand an amount or quantity of torque. (Torque + time and distance)
    Now if we are measuring torque and RPM how can we calculate horsepower? Where does the equation HP=TORQUE X RPM / 5252 come from? We will use Watts observation of one horsepower as 150 pounds, 220 feet in one minute. First we need express 150 pounds of force as foot pounds torque.

    (The * symbol means multiply in the explanations below.)


    • Pretend the force of 150 pounds is "applied" tangentially to a one foot radius circle. This would be 150 foot pounds torque.

    Next we need to express 220 feet in one minute as RPM.

    • The circumference of a one foot radius circle is 6.283186 feet. ft. (Pi * diameter; 3.141593 * 2 feet)
    • The distance of 220 feet, divided by 6.283185 feet, gives us a RPM of 35.014.

    We are then talking about 150 pounds of force (150 foot pounds torque), 35 RPM, and one horsepower.
    Constant (X) = 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM / 1hp
    35.014 * 150 / 1 = 5252.1
    5252 is the constant.
    So then hp = torque * RPM / 5252

    Here is another way; Remember we know 150 foot pounds and 35.014 RPM = one horsepower
    1hp is to 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM as X hp is to observed ft.lbs.torque * observed RPM
    Example; We dyno test and observe 400 ft.lbs. torque at 5000 RPM
    1 hp is to 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM as X hp is to 400 ft.lbs. * 5000 RPM
    When we cross multiply X hp * (150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM) = 1hp * (400 ft.lbs. * 5000 RPM)
    X hp * (5252 ft.lbs. RPM) = 1 hp * (2,000,000 ft.lbs. RPM)
    Divide both sides by 5252 ft.lbs. RPM
    X hp = 1 hp * 380.80
    X hp = 380.80 hp
    Horsepower = torque X rpm / 5252
    Here's an interesting bit of trivia; below 5252 rpm any engine's torque number will always be higher than its horsepower number, and above 5252 rpm any engine's horsepower number will always be higher than its torque number. At 5252 rpm the horsepower and torque numbers will be exactly the same.

    I've been told it also involves something called "radians". (See a definition of radians in the comments link below) I am not an engineer so my explanation may not be technically correct with out using "radians".




    original link http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer...orsepower.html
    -2002 Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon
    -2004 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V *boosted* (parting out)

  2. #2
    Slow Aeroscout977's Avatar
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    In lamens terms... Hp is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how much of the wall you drag with you.

  3. #3
    Chadbee Photography CHADbee's Avatar
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    one of my favorite quotes.....

    "HORSEPOWER LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER BUT TORQUE WINS RACES"

  4. #4
    Stops the Resistance 81911SC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CH@Dbee View Post
    one of my favorite quotes.....

    "HORSEPOWER LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER BUT TORQUE WINS RACES"
    Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars.

  5. #5
    IA Senior Member punkr6's Avatar
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    Torque is what moves you...
    NO ADVERTISING

    -IA MANAGEMENT

  6. #6
    Chadbee Photography CHADbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81911SC View Post
    Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars.
    thats a good one too.

  7. #7
    Slow Aeroscout977's Avatar
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    You need a balance of both.

  8. #8
    rolla rollin
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    you feel torque when your driving

  9. #9
    Certified Gearhead
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    Torque gets you moving, HP keeps you moving.

  10. #10
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    exactly what i was gonna say stolen.. that burst to start a race is one of the greatest feelings on earth..which is why i love american cars.. i can't stand lags or delays..i wanna go drive that amg c63 tho, that thing is a beast..all mercedes have a solid displacement, but hands down they are the best at building a v8 from the ground up, dunno in terms or reliability..but the hp and torque is astronomical on their 2010s.

  11. #11
    The One and Only Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CH@Dbee View Post
    one of my favorite quotes.....

    "HORSEPOWER LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER BUT TORQUE WINS RACES"

    I can counter that with one my favorite quotes...


    "SPINNIN AINT WINNIN"

  12. #12
    shakin it down Master Shake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis View Post
    I can counter that with one my favorite quotes...


    "SPINNIN AINT WINNIN"
    agreed.


    high hp and low tq....should be moving. since you don't have much tq to spin anything.....like a b16. still weaksauce though.

  13. #13
    Senior Member | IA Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis View Post
    I can counter that with one my favorite quotes...


    "SPINNIN AINT WINNIN"


    YES

  14. #14
    Why so serious? greasemunkey's Avatar
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    torque only gets you going, horsepower wins races

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