Maria Cardona just confirmed on Fox news its $250k GROSS income.
Looks like Obama's little secret is out of the bag now.
Maria Cardona elaborates....
Maria Cardona just confirmed on Fox news its $250k GROSS income.
Looks like Obama's little secret is out of the bag now.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10Originally Posted by AlanŽ
So what do people think now that this detail has finally been released.
$20 says that Obama will come out and say no no thats not what I meant.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
$20 says he's still going to win regardless.
Everyone against Obama already assumed it was referring to gross income anyway, I don't think a fox news segment is going to do anything.
Oh I agree Obama will still win but at least someone tied to the campaign has finally let the damn cat out of the bag. Obama has been dodging this question for awhile now. My old man's jaw just about hit the floor when he heard it.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
that's funny...you source fox news (HARDCORE right wingers), and maria cardona...the "ex" head of hilary clinton's campaign. hmm...i wonder why FOX interviewed her....
like it's already been said though, most supporter assumed it's based off of GROSS income...i mean, that is your income BEFORE TAXES anyway...so why would it change??? i have a feeling i know the point FOX was attempting to make, but i'm not sure u do. anyhow...just go vote
This is what I think this is getting at, but I could be wrong. Basically, I'll use a business as an example, and it pulls in 350k before expenses. That is what would be measured, not whatever the owner actually takes home once he/she pays for all of their expenses for that year. So if the owner only takes home 200k, they will be taxed as if they make 350k. Honestly I hope I'm wrong, that would be fucked up.
LOL considering she is a spokesperson/supporter for obama I think it's a reliable enough source no matter who is interviewing her. It's funny though a lot businesses may net 100K they gross a hell of a lot more (I.E. Over 250K) so like I have been saying all along Obama's argument is bullshit
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
CONGRATULATIONS YOU JUST HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
i see what you're saying, but you can't use that example for ALL businesses.
another thing to take into consideration is the actual definitions of GROSS and NET income. net income is EVERYTHING AFTER TAXES, expenses, etc. that's why obama supporters already ASSUME his tax policy is based off of gross income anyhow....that's how it ALREADY WORKS. that's another reason why we're allowed "tax deductions."
as stated before, not all businesses use business revenue as personal income tax...it depends on whether you file as an S-corp or LLC. when filing under an S-corp, your business income is the same as your personal income. if you file under an LLC. then you file your business and income taxes separately.
lastly, the increase is on everything over $250k. so let's say you make $255k...then the increase in taxes is on $5k...not the entire amount. taxes already work this way. i don't remember the exact percentages, but let's use 15% and 36% in a $255k income bracket. you'd get taxed 15% on everything up to $250k...and anything over that gets taxed 36% (you pay an extra 36% of the remaining $5k). what obama wants to increase is that 36% to 39%. this is what i THINK FOX is trying to prove/dis-credit. i think they're trying to say that once you get above that $250k range...then EVERYTHING is taxed more...not just anything over $250k. if that's their point, then they're wrong...
I would still like to see Obama prove his "Fact" that 98% of small businesses don't make $250K+".
I'd be willing to put $20 on his statistic having to do with Net income.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
OK...sometimes your line of thinking just hurts my head. Have you ever filed taxes? Tax tables are based on TAXABLE INCOME. That means that the only number that matters on how much you get taxed is how much money you made in income after any applicable deductions(tax deductable expenses).CONGRATULATIONS YOU JUST HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.
Obama is not rewriting the tax code to change this and has never expressed anything close to resembling it. He intends to change the tax tables, not how taxes are done. In the case of the 250k mark, the difference between gross and net can also be stated as preTAX or postTAX, not preDEDUCTION or postDEDUCTION.
The implication of whether the magical 250k mark that he keeps referring to here is whether or not he is talking about people who make 250k in taxable income, or people who take home 250k after taxes being paid. By being vague, people may think that he is including them because they take home 250k. I am pretty sure everyone assumed correctly at this point that he was referring to gross income before taxes and none of this comes as any surprise.
Most companies make waaaaaaaaay more predeductions than they are taxed through in the case of pass through situations. Another example might clear things up.
Company A is a S Corp that has revenues of 1mil.
There are 5 employees at the company and an owner.
Each employee makes 150k
150x5=750
Company owner makes 250k and is taxed on such amount.
Obama is NOT saying that company A is now going to have to pay taxes on 1mil, because that would alone at the current tax rate be more than he actually makes.
Obama is saying that company owner will not have any increased taxes because he makes less thank 250k gross.
If it wasn't gross, and rather net that he had been referring to all this time, then more people would be saved from the higher taxes. Another example:
Company A is a S Corp that has revenues of 1.1mil.
There are 5 employees at the company and an owner.
Each employee makes 150k
150x5=750
Company owner makes 350k and is taxed on such amount, but after taxes only makes 250k take home.
If Obama wasn't referring to gross, this would mean that his taxes aren't raised either by the new tax plan, because Obama promised that no one making under 250 will see higher taxes.
This a little clearer now????????????
i get it but the problem is Obama has YET to eleaborate. A lot small business owners that I know are already formulating worst case scenario strategies. And trust me it's not gonna be good.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
actually pre-tax/post-tax and pre-deduction/post-deduction are completely different.
in my wifes business her taxes only come out to be about 25k a year, but her deductions are closer to 500k a year.
I havent heard yet, but if that 250k mark is gross income, not taxable income then it makes a very big difference. Again my wifes business does a little over about 600k in business, but has well over 500k in deductions.
This was the indication given yesterday. And thats why I'm saying Obama has yet to elaborate on.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
That was exactly my point. They are completely different and one is impossible and has never ever been mentioned by any candidate, so to worry about it being a possibility is ridiculous. There are very few businesses that would ever be profitable again, large or small if you started taxing on what you call "gross income".
Most if not all businesses have huge deductions because that is how you run a business. Let's take Mr. Kidd's business model for example. If he buys objects and resells them for more, he makes money. IE...he buys 10 objects for 10 dollars and sells them for 11 dollars. He earns 1 dollar in profit. The other ten he spent is tax deductible for obvious reasons. If he was taxed on RECEIPTS, not the word income that you throw around, then he would be taxed on 30% of 11 dollars but only profit 1 dollar. ALL businesses work like this, service or product. NO ONE HAS EVER offered a suggestion that taxes are going to be changed as to what we tax, but rather just a change in the tax tables(how much for each level of income (READ TAXABLE INCOME).
As I stated before, Obama doesn't need to clarify his 250 magic mark, because we all already assumed that it was worst case senerio. There is absolutely no reason to think that he is suggesting a fundamental change in what type of income we tax. In this case the discussion of the word "gross" can only refer to the first part of my original statement: pretax or posttax. It cannot possibly refer to pre-deduction or post-deduction.
Theres a such thing as Adjusted Gross Income.. just wanted to point that out.
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