Hey, as the title states, I'm looking for some resources for building a high rpm engine, Im shooting for 13k and working with either the d or b series motor.
Resources for building a high rpm engine
Hey, as the title states, I'm looking for some resources for building a high rpm engine, Im shooting for 13k and working with either the d or b series motor.
lol why would u want to go all the way to 13K god damn i hope your playing well hit up vteckid his the king in allmotor
buy a motor cycle manOriginally Posted by flysi00
there is no reason to rev to 13k, unless you are building a FULL OUT RACE motor, like Eric Aguilar 10second CRX, then youll have no use for it on the street. be prepared to spend $15,000 and rebuild it every 1000 miles, cause the motor wont last.
please give me your reasoning behind wanting a motor to rev that high
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9500-10k is plenty to squeeze out everything you need from a street engine. At 9500 your butthole puckers awaiting a rod to come flying through the firewall. Build an engine to turn that and see if you still feel the need to turn it higher. Not only that, the head on a b series engine will only flow to a certain rpm. My head made power to one of the highest points I have ever seen from a factory b16 head. I made power out to 9200 rpms and flattened out to 9700. The headwork and cams(monster lift/duration: no idle for u) you would need to turn 13000 effectively would not be worth the costs.
i dont think he is for real about this come on 13k why i dont get it
Why? Because I have money and way too much free time on my hands; that and the novelty of it entertains me. So now I suppose the question is, is it even feasible, if not what would it take to build a 10k engine?
i wouldnt come in here talking all big and bad
damn hope u got alot of money cuz for 13krpm u going to have to rebuild after every fucking run
ok
i will build you one, $15000 is the price tag, I GURANTEE 280-300whp. it will rev to 13k, and it will last prob 2-3 race sessions.
or ill do it for $5000 and itll last once.
you need to call DONF or Eric Aguilar, they are the only people that can do it.
i dont really think you know what you are talking about. even a 10k rpm motor doesnt last, there are serious bearing wear, oil pressure,and crank issues with 13k rpms. doesnt matter how much money you have.
The skunk2 all motor car revs to 11,000rpms, and they have to change bearings after every race. and they have ALOT MORE MONEY than you do, damn near unlimited budgets.
And your credentials dont mean anything no offense. if you knew anything about rod/stroke ratios, bearing wear, cylinder pressure, crankcase pressure, you wouldnt have to ask these questions
i had an OEM build taht revved relaibly to 9500rpms, but i never chanced it to 10k, the stress on a crank doubles btween 9000 rpms and 10k rpms
Last edited by vteckidd; 07-12-2005 at 09:37 PM.
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if the kid wants to spend mom and dads money then so be it go buy a gsxr 1000 take the motor out and put it in your civic a rev to 13000 all you want to my car makes plenty of power and i shift early at 8000
built and tuned by WheelsDirect
LOL im with you
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I drove a stock LS for so long my asshole start to pucker around 8000 and i always chicken out and shift early.
If he wants to read up on 13000rpm engines, he should do a search on H-T.
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Try Spoon maybe?
sorry to jack your thread, but it seems to be going nowhere fast...lol
can anyone give me some good resources for building an allmotor b18c, to rev to around 9-9500.... right now i have a freshly rebuilt b18c with cp forged 11:1 compression pistons with STOCK rods.... i'd like to replace the rods with some better forged ones(would like some suggestions on what) and then build the top end... maybe port and polish the head, rocket motorsports m22 camshafts, and a beefier valve train( would like some suggestions on that as well)... can someone gimme some advice, on what i should do other wise....and i also have stock honda bearings.... should i upgrade? to like some acl bearings... or would it matter?
appreciate it, once again sorry to jack your thread.. just don;t feel like makin my own
built and tuned by WheelsDirect
EXACTLY, LOL!!!!!!!!!!
whatever dude? 1,000,000 says you suck my dick while Fox News reports it
I don't think rods are neccessary unless you plan to run nitrous.
port and polish would be a good idea if you can afford the $$$ to do it right, plan on at least $1,000 w/ valve job from a reputable person like DFE or RM
M22's are good, I like mine and my power doesn't peak until 9300 rpm which I think has been helped out by the omnipower flat face valves which also give you a .3 bump in CR
Rocket motorsports valvetrain(springs, retainers) are excellent and will withstand all the revs you can throw at them.
My engine has acl bearings but I don't know that you would have to although it would be a good idea.
The only other thing I would do would be to get an ANR or RMF or Sparks header. If it came down to doing a p and p or getting a top notch header first I would get the header IMO.
Also plan to upgrade fuel injectors and pump
I don't know what gen engine/car you are running but a chipped p28 or Hondata would be a good idea w/ that setup.
^^^ basically what he said... I talked to Vteckidd about my engine ideas awhile back and he said port & polish...RM valve train with omni valves. M22 camshafts aswell. I wouldnt worry about the rods i dont think ut investing in some arp bolts would be a wise choice. If i remember correctly u dont have to worry about the rods as much as you do the bolts streching or breaking.
Good add on to my post, I forgot until last night when I was thinking about it. Make sure if you do use stock rods to use ARP rod bolts as well as ARP or AEBS head studs when you bolt everything back up, that gives you a good bit of insurance when you're spinning at 9500 RPM's. My car has seen that multiple times as well as a 10K RPM dyno pull at Mainstreams dyno day.
thanks alot, i wasn;t sure if i would need knew rods or not.. didn;t know if me boring them out would cause them to lose any strength. my goals are to be in mid-low 13's all motor. which i;m sure won;t be hard at all to get.
right now i;m runnin 14.8 with just cp forged 11:1 comp pistons, dc sport 4-1 header, injen shortram, greddy evo, act lightened flywheel and clutch.
i;m gonna try and get mainstream to tune my car after i get it painted... which hopefully will be soon. then i;m gonna start savin up for the build. not sure about p and p yet... don;t know a whole lot about it. how safe it is, or what gains you have.
but as for building it. i'm gonna try and do everything myself.
ive pondered the idea of gettin a cheap HIGH milaged ls engine. and rebuilding it to learn on. but alot of people have told me to just go ahead and jump in it with mine.
thanks for all the info and recomendations, i appreciate it
power is in the head. headwork is a must for the most power. Stock GSR motors can handle 9000rpms. as long as your bearings were sized right youll be fine.
to run mid 13s you need 190-200whp IMO in an integra chassis and slicks
If i were you and you want to stay all motor, look into buying:
Camshafts-ROcket Motorsports M22s or Skunk2 Pro1s
Valvetrain-I only use Rockets MOtorsports
Header-RMF or SMSP
theres 15whp in those mods, if not more with proper tuning.
Boring out the cylinders has really no bearing on Rod strength. I mean if you sleeved it and went to 86mm, then i would say you MIGHT have issues. but i assume you went within service limit and only did a .50mm/.20 thou over.
as long as your rods were sized and you used the correct bearings, then yuoll be fine. rev away
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What if it had a smaller bore and stroke...maybe sleeve the shit out of it and put in 74mm pistons? Of course torque would be like ZERO but it should be able to reliably rev the piss out of it....until a bearings seizes anyways
piston speed would be to high and the cylinders would get to hot with that small a bore. it would be like a 1.1l motor tooWhat if it had a smaller bore and stroke...maybe sleeve the shit out of it and put in 74mm pistons? Of course torque would be like ZERO but it should be able to reliably rev the piss out of it....until a bearings seizes anyways
if your talking abuot doing that, you might as well just swap a busa motor into his car.
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i'm leaning on 2 ideas... i can go allmotor OR since i have 11:1 compression i could get a thicker headgasket to lower my compression back to stock and then turbo it.... dunno what to do.dunno what would give me the best times and reliability.
well, whats your budget. with high compression liek that you need to be able to TUNE IT from day one. and plus i dont know, not with a stock bottom end. you detonate once at 10psi that motor is fried.
I wouldnt go turbo. you cant run a headgasket thick enough to lower it back down to stock. stock is 10:1
I would get a header, cams, and tune it. if you wanted turbo, you messed up when you bought high compression pistons fro day one
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yeh yeh i know......i could allways go back with lower compression pistons, but i really don;t want to do that.
what times do you think would be possible with header, cams, valve train, and tune. just guestimate
what cams, what header? the best of both, you could run high 13s with slicks. if you canmake 180whp, you can run HIGH 13s
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amen!
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i'm talkin about the cams and valve train we have been talkin about...
rocket motorsport m22 camshafts and RM valvetrain... with maybe an ANR header. reving to 9k
i thought the stock compression on the c1 was 9.5 or something? Hmm im prob wrong.
Just to give you an idea on how much head work helps, Skunk2's race b16 engine has stock rods,pistons and crank, skunk2 p&p,cams,valve train and runs 13:1 compression making like 253or 283 hp? You can raise and lower compression very easily with the head. Different valves can chance compression, milling the head can change compression, everything. So listen to the all knowing Vteckidd when he says the power is in the head
yeh i knew you could mill the head, and raise the compression, but i really don;t want to raise my compression, cause i still want to run on pump gas. and yes stock gsr compression is 10:1 i think... i know for a fact its 10 something... might be 10:3. think its 10:1 though.i thought the stock compression on the c1 was 9.5 or something? Hmm im prob wrong.
Just to give you an idea on how much head work helps, Skunk2's race b16 engine has stock rods,pistons and crank, skunk2 p&p,cams,valve train and runs 13:1 compression making like 253or 283 hp? You can raise and lower compression very easily with the head. Different valves can chance compression, milling the head can change compression, everything. So listen to the all knowing Vteckidd when he says the power is in the head
u can still run pump gas having a higher compression...maybe not 15:1 but if you ran 12:1 lets say you could use 93 octane. Even if it was just 11:1 (stock ITR ratio? maybe its 11.5) thats a significant amount of power believe it or not. With a p&p job,good valve train, proper tuning and of course good intake and exhaust..13's would be the be the least of your worries...id start looking into buying slicks =P
Stock COmpression on a USDM GSR is 10:1. Yes you can gain compression by milling the head, but you sacrifice valve to piston clearance. since you have aftermarket pistons, they usually have deeper vavle relifs so youd be ok. but 11:1 is high enough. you wont see much power increase if you mill and try to get it to 11.5:1. 12:1 is about the limit of a street motor. remember it is possible to get a bad batch of gas, then detonate
that Skunk2 motor in Honda TUning was not a b16. they said it was, but it WAS NOT. it was a 2.0L or a very big 1.9l.
Depending on your budget, heres what i would Do:
Cheap Budget:
1) ITR CAMS:$250-300
2) AEBS Intake Manifold-$150
3) DC JDM 4-1 Header-$280
4) Uberdata ECU-$180 or $80 if you have obd1 already
5) 1 Hour ofTuning-$100
170ish whp
if your a baller:
1) RMF NArrow 4-1 header -$700
2) Rocket Motorsports Valvtrain-$250
3) M22s or Pro1's-$600
4) AEBS Intake Manifold-$150
5) DFE Street Stage 1 Headwork-$1000 includes valves (ferrea)
6) Uberdata ECU-$180 or $80 if you have obd1 already
7) 1 Hour ofTuning-$100
190-200whp
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Vtec, the b16 i was referring to was the b16 out of the Skunk2 booklet/mag i got from the skunk2 rep at nopi nats. last year. If i can get my scanner to work ill snap a pic and post it. They may have been lieing of course but it said it was b16 race engine.. Im sure they could have been running race fuel. Oh and out of curiousity are you still running the Busa itb's on your motor? If so what kind of power increase are you seeing from them?
what if i did go with itr or ctr cams. should i keep stock valve train. or should i upgrade to itr valve train or RM, will it matter? or will the cams not be making any power at those kind of rpms?
AHHHH
i tought you were talking about the Honda Tuning or Import Tuner motor that was in the WD40 shootout. they had a article a few months back, it said B16, and it was actually a 1988cc motor. the article writer fucked up.
I suspect that was prob Crank horsepower, as it would have to be a FULL out race motor to see those kind of numbers from a b16, or it revved to 12,000 rpms
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i would keep the stock vavletrain, you wont be revving to 9000+ with those cams
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I like M22's
^^i need money...
i think i;m gonna get it tuned at mainstream, and then just save and save. and go all out. might take me half a year to get enough to do it all. but i;d rather do it right.
The Import Tuner article did use a DTS or engine dyno. Those figures were at the crank. When they put the engine in a CRX race car shell and chassis dynoed it it made 230's.
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