Best HPDE Driving School in South East?

[Sayajin]

Hey guys. I dont know how many of you would know the answer to this question, but I figure it cant hurt to ask here.



For a while now I have been wanting to take an HPDE course at a driving school. For those who dont know, that is a High Performance Drivers Education Course.



I really want to get into road racing as well as just increase my overall performance driving abilities as a whole. The primary reason for me would be to help out in road racing and Mtn runs and that sort of thing.



Anyway, I am in the state of Georgia and I know there are a number of HPDE driving schools here, however I dont know of any one being overly recommended over another. Personally I dont mind driving to a surrounding state in the event that the course is signifigantly better there. I just wanted to get some recommendations and opinions from some people who know.



So, What HPDE Driving School in the South East would you guys recommend attending to learn the necessary skills for road racing and mountain runs?



Thanks guys. Btw, if it matters I am of course AWD. Dont know if that makes a difference in school selection.





-Sayajin

[Elbow]

NASA

www.nasa-se.com

[StraightSix]

I'm going to second what the above poster said. I'm a little biased, but I got involved in NASA because of the way that they do things.

The road to getting a comp license will be slow, but you when you get there you should be an excellent driver. NASA's HPDE program pairs you with an in-car instructor for most of your beginning and intermediate sessions. The benefit to having the instructor in the car with you is that you get immediate feedback on your technique. They also couple track time with classroom sessions to learn some of the theory behind why you want to do this or that on track.

The next event that will be kind of close is May 14th and 15th at Roebling Road in Savannah, GA. I'd recommend going to that rather than waiting for the event in August at Road Atlanta. The Road Atlanta events get filled very quickly thus making clean track tough to get. Plus, Road Atlanta has a lot of elevation changes and blind corners making learning the track more difficult and possibly taking away from focusing on driving.

Another program to check out is Seat Time. Seat Time only conduct events at Roebling, and focus on DE with no race sessions occuring during the events. My roomate instructed for Seat Time last weekend and gives them a thumbs up. You get lots of seat time (no pun intended) without a lot of stress.

If you have any questions, lmk.

[Elbow]

Road Atlanta is a great track to learn on, I love the track, you just have to be ready to learn, and keep your foot planted in the last turn.

[Big Baller]

I suggest you check out www.siegelracing.com, Scott puts on a great driving school and there is lots of private instruction. I instruct with Scott so you can request me if you like.

Seat time is also a great group to run with, that is Jon K's school, he placed second overall last year in One Lap of America. I've instructed with Jon before and if you request me Ill do my best to make it out. His next event is the friday before the next Nasa event so if you did both you could get three days in.

Nasa-SE is good and I'm also a certified Nasa instructor so you can try and request me.

Most PCA and BMW clubs have good DE programs. But with the first two I mentioned you will get more one on one instruction.

Matt

Oh Make sure you get a good set of pads I suggest Carbotech xp10s front and xp8s rear.

Ill post a primer later to help you get ready for youre first track day.

[Big Baller]

Road Atlanta is a great track to learn on, I love the track, you just have to be ready to learn, and keep your foot planted in the last turn.

Great advice if you are trying to get him killed thanks....

That shit only works for guys on race tires and people in Miatas....

[StraightSix]

Great advice if you are trying to get him killed thanks....

That shit only works for guys on race tires and people in Miatas....

It IS true, though, that you don't want to lift in 12. From the tower in March, I watched a Viper in a DE3 session lift throttle oversteer into the inside wall. Then, in a race group an AI Mustang nearly ate the same wall and managed somehow to back the car around the wall toward the pro pits.

Road Atlanta is a great track, but I stick by my original statement that it's not the best choice on our schedule to begin HPDE. As an example, the approach to 11 is very blind. Point your car at the color block for the line for your car and might be a little intimitading for someone without any track experience.

[Elbow]

I always run 12 flat out in every car I ran there, not just the Miata or a car with race tires.

[Sayajin]

Humm.. Thanks for all the info guys.

I am starting completely from scratch not knowing squat, so forgive me for any future dumbass questions I may ask.

I will look into the schools you guys posted above and check them out. I really like the idea of 1 on 1 teaching as my faults can be corrected on the fly.


As an aside, quite a few people recommend Panoz Racing School to me. I just couldnt see paying 10x the price at $3600 for a school, however they say it is quite worth it. I figure for that price get a private instructor and learn from there. What do you guys think?

-Sayajin

[Elbow]

I say Skip Barber for a school versus Panoz, they don't run at Road Atlanta though. Their program is a lot better, and if you wreck, you don't have to pay every dime so I hear. Panoz charges you a LOT for EVERYTHING, even mis-shifts.

[Sayajin]

Yea, but is it worth the money over going with a NASA course or one of the other above mentioned ones?


-Sayajin

[yudalicious]

Yea, but is it worth the money over going with a NASA course or one of the other above mentioned ones?


-Sayajin

probably not IMO to go w/ an expensive school like Panoz for a beginner. IMO it's sort of along the lines of hiring a NBA player to coach you how to shoot when you've never touched a basketball before. Take my advice w/ a grain of salt though, never been to the Panoz school personally, but having gone through it myself, I think the "amateur" instructors w/ pca, bmwcca, etc. do a fine job. One thing is for sure though, don't NEED an expensive racing school to learn how to drive and have fun!

[StraightSix]

I'm not really a big fan of schools like Panoz. Panoz uses classroom session mixed with Lead/Follow driving sessions. Basically, the driving instructor leads the group of students around the track. The instructor limits the students' speeds as a result.

The strength of the NASA HPDE program lies in having the instructor ride along. Not only do you get immediate feedback, but you are also able to progress at your own pace. As you get more comfrotable on track, you and your instructor can work on different things. For instance, my roommate instructed last weekend for Seat Time. He and his student ran out of "standard" HPDE things to work on so Rob had his student begin doing off-line drills and learning how to get into a corner off line and how to get back on line without getting into trouble.

Another strength of NASA's program is that when you are ready to get your comp liscens, you will be a much better driver. One way to think of it is in terms of track time. You might end up spending, over time, the same amout as a Panoz school on NASA HPDE, but you should end up with a LOT more seat time. And, it's that seat time on track that will make you a better driver.

[Elbow]

True

[atlantamx3]

CHIN Motorsports is a GREAT instructor based HPDE organizer.

They know thier stuff and go to a bunch of tracks all over the Southeast.

www.chinmotorsports.com

VERY reasonably priced.

[Big Baller]

It IS true, though, that you don't want to lift in 12. From the tower in March, I watched a Viper in a DE3 session lift throttle oversteer into the inside wall. Then, in a race group an AI Mustang nearly ate the same wall and managed somehow to back the car around the wall toward the pro pits.

Road Atlanta is a great track, but I stick by my original statement that it's not the best choice on our schedule to begin HPDE. As an example, the approach to 11 is very blind. Point your car at the color block for the line for your car and might be a little intimitading for someone without any track experience.

The Viper was in TT. Theres a big diffrence between staying flat and lifting, theres a whole range of throttle that you can use. You don't tell the new guy to stay flat through anything.

Matt
Nasa Certified instructor
06 STI car #007

[Sayajin]

Thanks for the info guys.

Since it has been recommended by multiple people, I think I will do a mix of the NASA HPDE courses and the Seat Time Courses. I definetly want the in car instructor to help me along the way. I want to become the best I can in the shortest period of time possible. I think that would be the most efficent way.

I would love for you to be the one to get my on the right path Matt. I will be sure to see what I need to do in order to get you to be my instructor.

It will probably be about 2-2.5mo before my car is ready to hit the track. I just want to get all of the preliminary stuff I can now so that I will be ready when the time comes.

So what track prep things/car requirements do I need to get to have my baby ready to run? I know Matt recommended some particular pads above, anything else?

Here is what I currently have/will have:

AP Racing 8 Piston Front Brake Kit
** Whatever Pads you guys Recommend
Motul Racing Brake Fluid
Cusco Big Brake Cylinder Stopper
Tein Mono Flex Coilover w/ EDFC
Work Emotion XD9 18X10 +18 Wheels
** Whatever Tires you guys Recommend (275/45/18)
Nismo Sway Bars
GTR Front and Rear Strut Tower Bars


Okay, so that is everything I have listed thus far. Please keep in mind when you make your suggestions on things that I am COMPETELY green and have no idea about this stuff. So I want to start out with the basic necessities and then upgrade more parts as they are needed when my skill level rises.

Thanks for the help!

-Sayajin

[2.0civic]

I say Skip Barber for a school versus Panoz, they don't run at Road Atlanta though. Their program is a lot better, and if you wreck, you don't have to pay every dime so I hear. Panoz charges you a LOT for EVERYTHING, even mis-shifts.

LOLOL at misinformation on panoz.....

My ex's Great uncle founded the company and her granparents own chateau elan so sayijin, if you want panoz info, i can get it for you

[Big Baller]

The Panoz school is great I have to agree that it is a bit of a waste for youre first school. You will know when you are ready. You need track time first.

Call up Carbotech and order a set of XP10 pads for the front and XP8s for the rear.
As far as tires go, I highly recommend the Advan Neovas, thats what we are running on the One Lap of America Car and they are awesome.

Matt

[2.0civic]

Matt

what wouldyou suggest as a entry level car?

[Elbow]

LOLOL at misinformation on panoz.....

My ex's Great uncle founded the company and her granparents own chateau elan so sayijin, if you want panoz info, i can get it for you

That's just what I heard when I was first looking at schools. I know Danny myself and he is a great guy, and the company is great. BUT personally if you want to keep going up the racing ladder Skip Barber is the way to go. They do have the Panoz Series though now which is getting pretty big running along with ALMS events and all.

And also again, Panoz you are liable for damage, Skip Barber you are not.

To the thread starter, are you looking to just have fun with track days, or get into wheel to wheel racing?

[Sayajin]

To the thread starter, are you looking to just have fun with track days, or get into wheel to wheel racing?

I really want to get into wheel to wheel racing.

Road racing is something that I have really been interested in for years and just never really said, "screw it, lets do it!" Now I am finally at the point where I definetly want to.

Okay. So Carbotech Pads and Advan Tires. Anything else I need to get started?


-Sayajin

[Elbow]

Just make sure your fluids are good before you hit the track and all, and just go learn and have fun.

I'm not too sure on how to start road racing. I started in karting at a young age and just kept going. If I was to start over I would do HPDE, and probably start in Honda Challenge with an older model Civic or CRX, or Spec Miata. Both provide close racing, and a large field.

I can tell you though, you will be hooked, and probably mad you ever got into it!

[Big Baller]

Matt

what wouldyou suggest as a entry level car?

If you want to keep it really simple and easy. Then a BMW E30 or a Miata.
Those are the two cheapest options that will let you race wheel to wheel later.

The other option which I personally prefer is a foxbody mustang. Cheap good power and lots of suspension parts available cheap. Brake upgrades are cheap etc....

240sx isn't a bad option either lots of cheap upgrades available as well.

Matt

[Sayajin]

Another quick question for you guys:

I realize that a lot of this will depend on exactly how many track days you plan to attend, however help me out if you can. Keep in mind that I am a beginner and have NEVER been on a REAL road course before.

I know that once people really get into road racing, they often have a separate pair or wheels and tires for track days. However as I am just starting and will probably start out with only a few track days a year, do I need to buy the above mentioned Advans and throw them on my set of spare wheels and ONLY install them when I plan to hit the track? Or would it be okay for me to install the above mentioned Advans on my primary set of wheels? Keeping in mind as I said I am just getting started.

I also have the same question regarding the above mentioned brake pads. Do I need to ONLY run these pads when I plan to do track days? Or is it okay to run these pads on a daily basis and just replace them as necessary due to wear?

Thanks a lot guys! I am really looking forward to getting into this!


-Sayajin

[Mike Lowrey]

As far as tires go, I highly recommend the Advan Neovas, thats what we are running on the One Lap of America Car and they are awesome.

Matt

I am planning on running the One Lap next year. It looks like an awesome experience.

[StraightSix]

Another quick question for you guys:

I realize that a lot of this will depend on exactly how many track days you plan to attend, however help me out if you can. Keep in mind that I am a beginner and have NEVER been on a REAL road course before.

I know that once people really get into road racing, they often have a separate pair or wheels and tires for track days. However as I am just starting and will probably start out with only a few track days a year, do I need to buy the above mentioned Advans and throw them on my set of spare wheels and ONLY install them when I plan to hit the track? Or would it be okay for me to install the above mentioned Advans on my primary set of wheels? Keeping in mind as I said I am just getting started.

I also have the same question regarding the above mentioned brake pads. Do I need to ONLY run these pads when I plan to do track days? Or is it okay to run these pads on a daily basis and just replace them as necessary due to wear?

Thanks a lot guys! I am really looking forward to getting into this!


-Sayajin

Since you are just beginning, running your street tires would be just fine. So, no you don't HAVE to swap wheels for every event. Once you have s bit of track experience, you can then go to something stickier on a spare set of wheels and swap.

You will want to swap the brake pads, however. Track compounds need heat in them to work properly and rarely will you get enough heat in a track compound for it to work correctly on the street. By work correctly, I mean actually stop.

I second the E30 BME or Miata recommendation that Matt made and Steveo requested. Very easy to mod those cars and go spec racing once you have enough track experience.

[Sayajin]

Since you are just beginning, running your street tires would be just fine. So, no you don't HAVE to swap wheels for every event. Once you have s bit of track experience, you can then go to something stickier on a spare set of wheels and swap.

You will want to swap the brake pads, however. Track compounds need heat in them to work properly and rarely will you get enough heat in a track compound for it to work correctly on the street. By work correctly, I mean actually stop.

I second the E30 BME or Miata recommendation that Matt made and Steveo requested. Very easy to mod those cars and go spec racing once you have enough track experience.

Cool. Thanks a lot for the info! I was going to sell my extra pair of wheels, however I guess I will be keeping them for when I get a bit more track experience so I can throw some sticky tires on there!

As far as changing the pads, do you change the pads once you actually get to the track? Or do you change them at home and then drive on the track pads to the track?

I am going to assume you want till you get to the track to swap your wheels correct?

Once again I apoligize for the questions! Gotta start somewhere though!


-Sayajin

[yudalicious]

Cool. Thanks a lot for the info! I was going to sell my extra pair of wheels, however I guess I will be keeping them for when I get a bit more track experience so I can throw some sticky tires on there!

As far as changing the pads, do you change the pads once you actually get to the track? Or do you change them at home and then drive on the track pads to the track?

I am going to assume you want till you get to the track to swap your wheels correct?

Once again I apoligize for the questions! Gotta start somewhere though!


-Sayajin

just run on w/e tires you have now. I'm not familiar w/ the panthers mentioned, but if they're track compounds you need to swap the pads and rotors in at the track, and swap back when you're done. I actually think a set of dual purpose pads like the HP+ or similar would work for you and less hassle too. Just curious, how much power is the r32 making? I'm assuming that's the car you're taking?

[Sayajin]

just run on w/e tires you have now. I'm not familiar w/ the panthers mentioned, but if they're track compounds you need to swap the pads and rotors in at the track, and swap back when you're done. I actually think a set of dual purpose pads like the HP+ or similar would work for you and less hassle too. Just curious, how much power is the r32 making? I'm assuming that's the car you're taking?

Thanks man! I think I will end up doing that then. At least for now. HP+, those are the Hawk Pads correct? If so, those are the exact ones I was looking at before....

As far as the power I make (GTR33 btw, not 32) I have no idea. I am in the process of doing a build and I dont know what type of results it will produce. I can tell you that I will probably have to turn the boost down and run it signifigantly lower then tops, at least for now....

Yea, thats the car im taking. lol. I am/was a little in the air about it however... I mean do I want to risk breaking my $XXXX car due to my lack of abilities? Kinda worries me a bit....



-Sayajin

[speedminded]

As for turn 12, you never lift in the middle of a turn unless you want it to come around so that's kinda pointless to say...it's all about throttle control. I bounce off the rev-limiter in 3rd (90mph) at the apex forcing a shift...with street tires! talk about fun!

LOLOL at misinformation on panoz.....

My ex's Great uncle founded the company and her granparents own chateau elan so sayijin, if you want panoz info, i can get it for you

err yeah, what's her name again? you can pm her number along with a pic, thanks!

[Mike Lowrey]

This may have been posted, but change you brake fluid! I recommend Motul RBF 600. This has a higher boiling point to keep your brakes from fading. It makes a big difference and does not cost much.

[Big Baller]

I've been threw just about every brand and compound pad available in the last year. The hawk HP+ is a little better than a street compound at best. If you want to go to the track stick with a real track compound pad.

[StraightSix]

One of my friends may have melted a set of HP Pluses on his EVO at a track event in Louisiana. Oh, and on a stock EVO at that. Several of the Clemson guys are running Carbotechs and like them a lot. Call Carbotech and talk to one of thier reps to see what they recommend for your intended usage.

If you're really, really worried about balling up your high dollar car, why not buy something with less power and less money? You will be surprised at the amount you can and will learn by driving something that isn't a firebreather.

[Big Baller]

You can learn more driving a slow car than you will learn driving a fast car.

[2.3 Evo 8]

The Advan Neova's are awesome tires. I ran them on the Evo for a while. On an 8 inch rim, I had 9 1/2 inches of tire(245/40/17) touching the ground with plenty of grip.

[Sayajin]

The Advan Neova's are awesome tires. I ran them on the Evo for a while. On an 8 inch rim, I had 9 1/2 inches of tire(245/40/17) touching the ground with plenty of grip.

Now would those be recommened as track only tires? I mean of course you would want to have a pair of dedicated track wheel and tires, but how about running a second pair on your DD wheels? Or are these really ONLY designed to be used on the track and should not be used on regular DD wheels?


-Sayajin

[keevo54]

LOLOL at misinformation on panoz.....

My ex's Great uncle founded the company and her granparents own chateau elan so sayijin, if you want panoz info, i can get it for you

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Don Panoz bought the winery and built the hotel and neighborhood off of his pharmaceutical profits(he invented the nicotine patch). He sold the neighborhood and hotel to Henk Evers and another guy. I believe Don still owns Road Atlanta along with a couple other tracks. Danny Panoz builds the cars.

[keevo54]

Now would those be recommened as track only tires? I mean of course you would want to have a pair of dedicated track wheel and tires, but how about running a second pair on your DD wheels? Or are these really ONLY designed to be used on the track and should not be used on regular DD wheels?


-Sayajin

Neovas are fine for daily driving although they are pretty expensive and a low treadlife. It's better to start with cheaper, aggresive street tires like the Advans then going straight to track tires because it is easier to find the limits of your car and will give you more feedback.

[StraightSix]

Neovas are fine for daily driving although they are pretty expensive and a low treadlife. It's better to start with cheaper, aggresive street tires like the Advans then going straight to track tires because it is easier to find the limits of your car and will give you more feedback.

Street tires have more progressive break away characteristics. The tires are going to give you much more warning than a R-comps. Street tires will allow you to learn how to feel how the car is going to bahave in transition.