Chinese AKs are shit. MAK 90s suck just to let you know.Originally Posted by simplyblurredmrT
I can break my Glocks down in a matter of seconds. It is much easier to field strip one (properly) than a Sig or H&K in my opinion. The Glock has less moving parts than either of those guns.I agree with you on the Glock issue I just don't like cleaning them, I prefer a Sig or a Heckler and Koch (they feild break so damned easy not to like them)! LOL!
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
agreed
Ill take a Springfield XD any day.
Oh and what is with the sissy ass 9mm and 40.cal.
The .40 cal is sissy? Since when? I'm not out to "lob" my bullets like you do with a .45. The 9mm was bought as a "fun gun" that I can shoot cheaply.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
40 cal has always been sissy stuff.
Lob my bullets, hardly, I have my "good rounds hand loaded for me.
9mm and 40 cal are cute. I prefer something with a little more stopping power.
I also think that its funny that the guy with the Porsche and Landrover is talking about shooting cheaply.
Matt
Yeah
A IA range day would be a blast, there is a place out in hiram that rents automatic weapons.
C3 sports I think
Matt
I'll vouch for Jaime's arsonal. It's kinda scary being at his house knowing he's got shit everywhere!!!
Quality Perfomance and Fabrication!!
Don't be telling all my secrets now mofo......
Yall did jump back when we shot some of them "special" fireworks that one time.....
Interesting. Your comments towards me are seemingly out of the blue. Do you have ssues with me or something that I don't know about?
Last edited by Ruiner; 06-09-2005 at 03:28 PM.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
No, not all, I think you took my comments more personally than I meant them.
Matt
Bud, I'm a .45 man at heart too, but .40 is far from a "sissy" round. Need to compare it ballistically and you'll see. A semi-heavy bullet hitting a target really fast does just as much damage as a heavy bullet hitting the target slower. The .40 and .45 are very close ballistically except for the .40 is usually slightly lighter but faster.
"Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." 42,43 Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.44"
^^^that is an excerp from an FBI study on wound ballistics as it associates to bullet size and design. It is a very interesting study. It concluded that bullet size only matters IF there is enough penetration in the first place. If a smaller bullet penetrated the 12 in minimum benchmark and another didn't, the edge in stopping power would go to the deeper bullet regardless of size. It also concluded, as it states in the quote, that if all things are held equal and both the smaller and bigger bullet penetrated the minimum 12 in, THEN the edge would go to the bigger diameter bullet. ONLY THEN.
We could go much deeper if yall want, but the bottom line is that some of the larger diameter bullets, because of their mass and lower velocities, USED to not penetrate anywhere near as deep as faster and smaller bullets. Now, if you use +P or +P+ loads and use good bullet designs on the bigger bullets, then the advantage would go to bigger caliber.
I personally wouldn't want to get shot by ANY round, including a .22
Last edited by Jaimecbr900; 06-09-2005 at 03:49 PM.
Baller, you got me to thinking a little which sometimes is a little dangerous. So, I dug back into my research stuff and found something that may enlighten you and many others that have pondered the situation your comment hints at.
Enjoy. This is another excerp from gentleman who is a DR. in the Law Enforcement community. Notice the test results and data. After, I hope you'll get the real message he is trying to get everyone to understand.
"The velocity or weight a particular bullet possesses is not terribly important, as long as it has appropriate penetration and expansion characteristics. Keep in mind that psychological motivation, training, and weapons system reliability are all far more important than what caliber handgun is utilized. All handguns are all relatively impotent; whether I am carrying a 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP handgun is not terribly important to me, as adequate performing ammunition is available in all three calibers, and I have used each at one time or another while on duty.
When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr:
As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .
Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers-pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.
NOTE: The bullets used in the picture of the bare gelatin shots were all Federal HST's, however, the picture would look exactly the same if Federal Tactical, Speer Gold Dot, or Winchester Ranger Talon were used instead...Also of note, the wound tracks were dyed in them to make them easier to see--the color differences with the dye has no meaning. I personally don't like to dye gelatin because it overemphasizes the temporary cavity. The permanent cavity is the primary bullet track where the tissue is crushed by direct contact with the bullet, while the temporary cavity is the area of stretch spreading radially away from the bullet track.The photos illustrating the recovered bullets depict Gold Dot in 357 Sig and Ranger Talons for the other calibers--they represent optimum performance in each caliber.
--------------------------------------------------
The following loads have all demonstrated outstanding terminal performance:
9 mm:
Barnes 105 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Fed 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Win 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Win 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Fed 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Rem 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer 147 gr JHP (53619)
Win 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
.40 S&W:
Speer 155 gr JHP (53961)
Fed 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Fed 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Rem 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer 180 gr JHP (53966)
Win 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
.45 ACP:
Barnes 185 gr JHP
Federal 230 gr Tactical (LE45T1)
Speer 230 gr Gold Dot (23966).
Winchester 230 gr Ranger Talon (RA45T)
Winchester 230 gr +P Ranger Talon (RA45TP)
Notes:
-- While the .45 ACP Barnes all copper 185 gr JHP is just slightly deficient in penetration, I would not hesitate to use this load when a lower penetration projectile is desired--it is more versatile in different potential engagement scenarios and far superior compared to Triton Quickshok, Aguila IQ, Magsafe, Glaser, etc...
-- Although the Winchester service pistol loads (RA91P & RA401P) using the Nosler Partition Gold bullets are rumored to be discontinued, this Alan Corzine bullet design is too good not to be in production and I suspect another manufacturer will be savvy enough to start using them.
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, etc…)
----------------------------------------
The keys are:
-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds--500 to verify function, 500 for further carry use) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance."
-quoted from tactical forums and posted by DocGKR.
I know this is a lot more technical than most would of ever wanted this thread to turn into, but I just wanted to squash some myths once and for all.
Moral of the story? You can have the biggest baddest bullets on earth in your gun, but if you don't hit your target often or deep enough it aint worth squat. Werd?
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