i agree no bible no christian god, but there will always be that what if in ones mind... but i disagree that you think you don't have faith in your bible... christians use it to prove christianity all the time you would have to have faith in the scripture to believe itOriginally Posted by Xan
; which ultimately is gods word if your christian anyway so hence you have faith in god.
NO relics do not neccesarrily have to be one of a kind. a relic is just something that can last the sands of time... the bible is such. there are many religous artifacts(relics) which can be seen/found all over the world and not all are christian... and they do offer enlightenment, if they didn't they would of been disregarded centuries ago and wouldn't be relics today. to say the bible isn't a relic is to discredit the age/history of it.Don't relics usually have to be one of a kind? Seeing as how the cross is the most well known shape on Earth and the Bible is the most printed and revised book in human history wouldn't that make them a tool of sorts. Besides, the Bible has something to offer to those willing to read it and accept it's teachings. Relics(i.e. meteors, obelisks, statues and shit)offer nothing in the way of enlightenment.
I'm not a christian though. I believe in a greater being, but that's it. Everything I have I have gotten myself. I live my life according to my terms. The Bible and the commandments are too restrictive for my tastes. That's beside the point though. You just said that having faith in a Bible and having faith in what it says are the same thing when they aren't. Christians have faith in the scripture because it is supposedly handed down by their creator. Having faith in the scriptures written by God is the same as having faith in God himself. The scriptures no matter how you present them will always represent the written word of God. You can't take a relic(lets say that meteor that Muslims worship) and replace it with a marshmallow and call it the same.i agree no bible no christian god, but there will always be that what if in ones mind... but i disagree that you think you don't have faith in your bible... christians use it to prove christianity all the time you would have to have faith in the scripture to believe it
i never said you were christian i replied to your post.
i'm confused... the bible is scripture if you dont' have faith in the bible then you dont have faith in the scripture inside of the bible. which are the word of god. you need to read the definition of FAITH. we've already agreed w/o the bible you would have no christian faith... ok so if you don't have faith in the bible then you don't have faith. that isn't hard to comprehend.You just said that having faith in a Bible and having faith in what it says are the same thing when they aren't. Christians have faith in the scripture because it is supposedly handed down by their creator. Having faith in the scriptures written by God is the same as having faith in God himself. The scriptures no matter how you present them will always represent the written word of God.
umm please expand that doesn't make sense.... no one took the bible and replace it w/ a "marshmallow" and said here is your faith.You can't take a relic(lets say that meteor that Muslims worship) and replace it with a marshmallow and call it the same
I have to disagree with you. Relics in a religious sense are meant to be one of a kind. The original written Bible could be a relic. However, as I said before worship of a relic requires faith in the relic itself. Muslims bow down and pray to a meteor. Buddhists bow down and pray to a statue. Christians bow down and pray to God. True Christians are meant to place faith in God and his word not the format it comes in. True Christians are meant to pay homage to God not the Bible.
I'm sorry. The way you worded it sounded like you assumed I was Christian.
The point I was trying to make with my analogy is that you can't really idolize words.
Having faith in the teachings of the Bible and Idolizing the book itself aren't the same thing.
sensitive? hmmmi guess if you have a peanut for brain maybe... but kinda like a child growing up in a room w/ no windows who is made to think a rat is a cat and a cat a rat...
ya sounds crazy doesn't it, but the mind is easy to manipulate. black can be white all depends on the perspective.
NOPE. see you are mistaking worship and faith. those are two different concepts. i never said you have to worship the bible to believe it... you don't bow down to it, but you do have to have faith in the scripture and the text to believe it. i don't see how you can think otherwise... i can pull up a million an 1 post on how "you just have to have faith"... what is one refereing too? the scripture that is in the bible. you believe the text there for you have faith in it.
^ the bible fits every single one of those... it is nothing but passed on literature of the authors themselves inspired by GOD. that is a relic to which you/i have a copy of today.rel·ic( P ) Pronunciation Key (r
l
k)
n.
- Something that has survived the passage of time, especially an object or custom whose original culture has disappeared: “Corporal punishment was a relic of barbarism” (Cyril Connolly).
- Something cherished for its age or historic interest.
- An object kept for its association with the past; a memento.
- An object of religious veneration, especially a piece of the body or a personal item of a saint.
- or relics A corpse; remains.
again you have to have faith in the bible to believe what is in it.faithth)
n.
- Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
- Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
- Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
- often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
- The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
- A set of principles or beliefs.
i never said you have to worship the bible, but here you go... can you yes? is it done yes.wor·shipsh
n.
- <LI type=a>The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
- The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
- Ardent devotion; adoration.
- often Worship Chiefly British. Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.
I NEVER SAID WORSHIP OR IDOLIZING THE BIBLE. YOU AND METALMAN HAVE SAID THAT. IF YOUR GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION PLEASE QUOTE ME ON THE CURRENT TOPIC AND NOT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
Thanx
and Yes those are to different things.
nope maybe you should try joing discussions then posting "THIS IS A DUMB QUESTION"
O-Snap! I don't care
nope maybe you should try joinINg discussions then posting "THIS IS A DUMB QUESTION"
fixed it for ya! LOL
grand prix.....
then don't be surprised by ones replys
BINGO!!! +100
who said I was suprised?then don't be surprised by ones replys
you're as predictable as the Braves in the playoffs
ok. well thanx for playing.
Oh goodness lol
ok lets take a look back in history when it matters.
god gives moses the 10 commandments. and the torah.(old testament for the christians) fast forward a few million years lol- jesus dies and is "reborn" christians branch off from hebrews, and boom the shit hits the fan. heres why. every single torah in the world that is in hebrew is IDENTICAL. there are too many english interpretations of the christian bible. not bashing christianity at all BTW. anyway, so yes, there is god before the bible cause he gave the damn bible, or torah, or quaran to the people that worship god. simple
I agree that there are too many interpretations. But I think it was done to make it a lil easier for us to understand
Quote:I NEVER SAID WORSHIP OR IDOLIZING THE BIBLE. YOU AND METALMAN HAVE SAID THAT. IF YOUR GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION PLEASE QUOTE ME ON THE CURRENT TOPIC AND NOT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
Thanx
and Yes those are to different things.
Originally Posted by metalman
True. However...
Do Christians as (defined by the Bible) worship either the Bible or relics? No.
Even bowing to an angel is wrong let alone some museum relic or book. Do true Christians accept and following the counsel/instruction of Bible? Yes.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - The Creator
Admin's response---->whether you like to believe it or not Christians do worship the Bible. don't people bow their head to pray? yes.
I know this was said in a different thread, but since this thread was started because of it I feel it's relevant. Now that your conclusion agrees with what MetalMan and myself have been saying over and over again in regards to Christians idolizing the Bible I'll stop referring to it.
As for the Bible being a relic. It isn't. Relics pass the test of time. the Bible isn't valued for it's age. The scriptures aren't valued for their age. They are valued for the ensight they grant. The culture they thrive in is right here. The Bible has been written, re-written, edited, re-edited, versioned, re-versioned, translated, re-translated. It's still going on today. The Bible is a means to reaching God. The Bible isn't God himself.
Everyone have a great weekend and be safe. Happy labor day...now everyone call in sick.
its isn't relevant... b/c what i said is a response to his blanket statment that CHRISTIANS DO NOT, that would be assuming he knows all christians, people can worship the bible so that isn't true. Many do it today. They kill in the name of the bible. They idolize it.Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman
True. However...
Do Christians as (defined by the Bible) worship either the Bible or relics? No.
Even bowing to an angel is wrong let alone some museum relic or book. Do true Christians accept and following the counsel/instruction of Bible? Yes.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - The Creator
Admin's response---->whether you like to believe it or not Christians do worship the Bible. don't people bow their head to pray? yes.
I know this was said in a different thread, but since this thread was started because of it I feel it's relevant. Now that your conclusion agrees with what MetalMan and myself have been saying over and over again in regards to Christians idolizing the Bible I'll stop referring to it.
As for the Bible being a relic. It isn't. Relics pass the test of time. the Bible isn't valued for it's age. The scriptures aren't valued for their age. They are valued for the ensight they grant. The culture they thrive in is right here. The Bible has been written, re-written, edited, re-edited, versioned, re-versioned, translated, re-translated. It's still going on today. The Bible is a means to reaching God. The Bible isn't God himself.
Everyone have a great weekend and be safe. Happy labor day...now everyone call in sick.
So back on topic. Again you and metalman both are twisting words to suit your post in this thread. either answer the thread as started or don't post. its fucking dumb to go round and round about a question you refuse to answer. i started a new topic for that reason. if you won't answer the question w/o twisting the truth then dont' post. its that simple.
Admin doesnt grasp that concept Xan. He's a bright guy but apparantly that would conflict with his preferd view of christianity so he rejects it in favor of his prefered opinion.
Good try though.
Once again. People kill in the name of God. Can you point out one instance where someone has killed in the name of the Bible or the Koran or any other religious scripture for that matter? If so I'll shut the hell up. MetalMan's "blanket statement" was referring to christianity as a religion. He was referring to what is stated in the Bible. Of course he doesn't know all Christians, but from how you worded it I'm assuming you do. How am I twisting words? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU POSTED. VERBATIM. PERIOD. Seeing as how this is a debate why would I support your argument? Especially when you are wrong. You're the only one twisting words here my friend. MetalMan NEVER said that ALL Christians don't "idolize" the Bible. He said that the Bible's teachings forbid it. He actually agreed with you that some "lost" Christians will idolize the Bible and stick it on a pedistal and pray to it, the book. Praying for the book to solve their problems. MetalMan stated that it is the wrong way and according to the scriptures found in the Bible it is. Like you stated earlier. Having faith in it and worshiping it aren't the same. Maybe you should go ask your neighbors if they pray to a book to solve their problems or if they pray to a God.
i guess i'm still confused on the RELIC idea, me and the southern baptist convention as well please see new thread.
if you kill in the name of the god you kill in the name of which you hold faith in, we have already agreed NO BIBLE NO GOD, NO GOD NO FAITH... faith + bible = god ... they all go hand and hand.
what is stated in the bible isn't neccesarilly practiced that is obviously why i posted what i did. and w/ current findings i'm obviously not far off.MetalMan's "blanket statement" was referring to christianity as a religion. He was referring to what is stated in the Bible. Of course he doesn't know all Christians, but from how you worded it I'm assuming you do. How am I twisting words? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU POSTED. VERBATIM. PERIOD. Seeing as how this is a debate why would I support your argument?
please quote and cite b/c obviously i missed that on the SPEAR thread you keep quoting from in the meantime it would be nice to get back on topic if you want to discuss further on that topic you need to post in that topic.He actually agreed with you that some "lost" Christians will idolize the Bible and stick it on a pedistal and pray to it, the book.
oh again please read the RELIC thread i posted since i'm so confused and have no idea what i'm talking about...
Did you even read the link you posted in your relic thread?if you kill in the name of the god you kill in the name of which you hold faith in, we have already agreed NO BIBLE NO GOD, NO GOD NO FAITH... faith + bible = god ... they all go hand and hand.
M
please quote and cite b/c obviously i missed that on the SPEAR thread you keep quoting from in the meantime it would be nice to get back on topic if you want to discuss further on that topic you need to post in that topic.
oh again please read the RELIC thread i posted since i'm so confused and have no idea what i'm talking about...
This is the opening sentence. This is the author of said article disagreeing with the decision made by the Baptist Commission to make the Bible a "Revered Relic"---->I have noticed the reverence some hold for certain icons and relics. I am curious and respectful, but I do not establish my theology or state my faith on reverence for relics.
<SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'MS Mincho'">
<SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'MS Mincho'">This is the author describing relics as they are seen from a religious standpoint----->The believer approaches a sacred relic with a magical expectancy that it is the repository of spiritual insight and miraculous powers. Reminds me of Indiana Jones's encounter with the Hebrew Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail of Christ. Such a magical reverence for relics makes for exciting entertainment but very poor theology.
not sure about perspective so much as words, language, communication/interpretation.....i mean, what is BLACK, it is a word we've been taught since the day we were born that ties to a color our brain processes, if we were taught from birth that "black" was in fact "white" (language wise), then that's how we'd always know it as. make sense?i guess if you have a peanut for brain maybe... but kinda like a child growing up in a room w/ no windows who is made to think a rat is a cat and a cat a rat...
ya sounds crazy doesn't it, but the mind is easy to manipulate. black can be white all depends on the perspective.
yes the author does state that i did read it and he also stated as i said it is seen as a relic and why... his personal thoughts make no difference in this thread it is just one point of view but for th Southern Baptist Convention which is made up of more then one to say that... umm ya.
question... since you are still debating the bible isn't a relic even though now i have shown you christians who say it is... you believe christians don't think the bible hold any power? its the word of god. ever watch late night tv on sat... there is a billion and one faith healers using gods words (bible) and the holy spirit to cure everything from cancer to jock itch... please explain this since its not a relic?
in the true sense your physical bible you pick up at borders today isn't a relic, but the scriptures are contained in it.
exactly... but you didn't know black until you were taught it... get my drift. same w/ god. thats why there are many names for god/jesus.. if the christian god was an instinct inside of us then everyone would know of him... there are people all over the world who have no idea who this GOD/JESUS guy is.
Christians have to be told what to think and how to act. That's why the bible exists. Written by idiots for idiots. No better than Scientologists or Mormons.
LOL!!! Right... I must have forgot that I'm dumb (I didn't know MIT accepted dumb people)
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- IA Mgmt
What you have actually shown us REPEATEDLY is that you have very little understanding of the Bible OR true worship, and the difference between "relic worship" and following sound counsel. You have also shown that you are unable to distinguish idolotry from worship that is not.
If youre getting ANY of your info from "faith healers" on TV no wonder youre confused.
The book called the Bible has NO power. It is made of the same material as a scary Stephen King novel. The INFORMATION in BOTH books has "power", one to entertain, invoke fear, scary thoughts whatever, the other to instruct on the best way to live, whats happened in the past, whats coming in the future, things to do, things to avoid, etc and ultimately save ones soul.
The fact that some phony TV minister tells someone to place their hand on a book and they'll be "saved/healed" etc means NOTHING. Had you studied your Bible you (or anyone) wouldnt be so easily fooled. Therin lies one benefit from Bible study as opposed to Bible disection and disbelief. Therin lies the "power" of INFORMATION.
really you go to MIT? wow i didn't know that was a religious schoolLOL!!! Right... I must have forgot that I'm dumb (I didn't know MIT accepted dumb people
hello did i say anything about WORSHIP no so again why are putting words in my mouth... did i say anything about idolotry? no. i called the bible a relic and to further prove it show how people try to give it power which it obviously doesn't have. do i use made for tv for my outlook on christianity? no, but its another prime example to prove my point the bible is a relic and people use it as a relic.What you have actually shown us REPEATEDLY is that you have very little understanding of the Bible OR true worship, and the difference between "relic worship" and following sound counsel. You have also shown that you are unable to distinguish idolotry from worship that is not.
If youre getting ANY of your info from "faith healers" on TV no wonder youre confused.
again you are off topic. you want to dicuss WORSHIP start a thread about it. you sat here and posted like an ass on how smart you are yet you won't answer any questions you want to just hear the sound of your own voice by posting up BS that has no place in this discussion. you want to fucking post off topic shit go to the whoreslounge.
Last edited by 4dmin; 05-27-2006 at 11:50 PM.
No I don't go to MIT, couldn't come up with the funds, but I was accepted. Who said anything about it being a religious school? This knee_grow guy is just dumb for believing that Christians are people of low intelligence.really you go to MIT? wow i didn't know that was a religious school
IA Rules doesn't allow these images in sigs
- IA Mgmt
And, as I said from the beginning, TRUE Christians do not give the Bible any power it does not have.
I have always acknowledged that some people "idolize" the Bible.
You seem unable to distinguish true Christianity from false. Not surprising given your position and attitude toward the Book that would give you the INFORMATION to know the difference.
that sucks MIT is a great school, but the point was b/c your great in math doesn't mean you know jack shit about religion
well no shit but who are you to say who is TRUE and who isn't you are but just a man as we est... and this topic isn't even about relics... it was about god w/o the bible.And, as I said from the beginning, TRUE Christians do not give the Bible any power it does not have.
I have always acknowledged that some people "idolize" the Bible.
You seem unable to distinguish true Christianity from false. Not surprising given your position and attitude toward the Book that would give you the INFORMATION to know the difference.
any further post like the previous i'm just going to delete since you obviously aren't reading what i'm posting. you and xan want to keep getting offtopic... start another thread if you want to discuss that. if you have something to add about god w/o the bible say it your way off base in this discussion.
I'm going to agree with you. Sorry for whoring your thread.well no shit but who are you to say who is TRUE and who isn't you are but just a man as we est... and this topic isn't even about relics... it was about god w/o the bible.
any further post like the previous i'm just going to delete since you obviously aren't reading what i'm posting. you and xan want to keep getting offtopic... start another thread if you want to discuss that. if you have something to add about god w/o the bible say it your way off base in this discussion.
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