What do you believe?
Christians...do you drink?
What do you believe?
I dont believe drinking itself is sin, but i do believe any essesive drinking or to much dependency to it is very unhealthy and would be considered a sin............................................... .................................................. ..........it also leds to more sins
It also says in the bible to not harm your body which alcohol does to it in large amounts
so does overeating, mal-nutrition, smoking, body piercing, tattoos, bad hygene, etc.
Where does it say in the bible not to harm your body? I think you're wording that wrong.
I know a lot of very conservative Baptist churches frown on drinking. My ex's sister was an associate pastor at a very large church in Fayetteville and she would always make my ex use her fake ID in order to buy alcohol so that nobody else would find out.
More hypocritical Christian antics.
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i don't drink....but i'm a Muslim
Val RIP
Originally Posted by Halfwit
The Bible says your body is the temple of God. Simply put, why would you purposefully destroy God's dwelling place with anything? Can a foggy mind or destroyed brain cells lead to anything good? We are stewards pf the things God has Created and given us, including our bodies. All will answer for their stewardship. With regard to alchohol the Bible says "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise".
Wisely Put Metalman
Well stated, also you must not help others stumble!!!!!
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Well you also have to take into account, that also it does state in the bible that God gives you free will to choose your own path.
As far as drinking, Jesus drank himself, but he didnt get drunk. So honestly drinking a few wont harm anyone. Drinking a few times a week is actually healthy for you.
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Indeed. Choice and freewill are certainly part of the plan. Thats why I mentioned stewardship which is an INDIVIDUAL matter.
As for Jesus and drinking, there is alot of confusion with regard to the word "wine" in the Bible. The word from which wine is translated can refer to both fermented and non fermented varietys which were common in that time.
We know that non fermented grapes are beneficial to humans. We also know that fermented ones are not so good. Something to consider.
Also, one might consider the the example of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who along with Daniel refused to drink the Babylonian wine and eat their unlcean foods and then when they were tested were found to be seven times wiser and more healthy.
Like the saying goes, you are what you eat (and drink)
I hardly ever drink. LOL, I'm a lightweight, one smirnoff and I'm good for the night
Jason
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i think it's safe to assume that the wine Jesus made from water was indeed alcoholic (John 2:7-10):
7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. 8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."
This suggests that the normal practice at these functions was to get ppl tipsy with the good/strong stuff, then send out the cheap stuff for them to drink once they were already intoxicated.
If the wine weren't alcoholic, then the last statement about having "too much to drink" wouldn't make any sense. Too much plain ole grape juice isn't gonna cloud anyone's judgement
with most things in life, the key is moderation...
Think and "assume" whatever you wish but keep in mind when Jeus was offered fermented wine when suffering he refused it once he realized what it was.
You also have to "assume" along with your hypothesis that Jesus, the Creator of Life, was instrumental in giving out a poison that is harmful to judgement, body, and mind. Not too logical really.
But I have heard your assumption put forth before.
if you don't think that's logical...then *please* give me a better and more reasonable explanation for the verses I posted above. it seems pretty straightforward to me...
just food for thought...some believe Jesus was a Nazirite, like John the Baptist...so if you buy into that theory, that's another plausible explanation as to why he refused the wine.
Also consider this...
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
Thats about 180 gallons of wine, enough to get everyone completely obliterated & hammered
When you then consider other parts of God's Word that doesnt make sense:
Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken...
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit...
Assume whatever you wish but I think Jesus, the Author of the Word, would have kept His own word.
look at the key words in this verse you quoted. DRUNK with wine. the idea is not to get *intoxicated* with liquor, which comes from *excessive* drinking. seems pretty clear.
question is, at what point does one become intoxicated? when is it too much? that varies from person to person, and some might decide to not go into the gray area and abstain altogether. still doesn't make it wrong...
oops..dble post
180 gallons would have been more then enough
i see what you're getting at...and i believe your point of view is plausible. i'm just saying that the other is equally plausible and defensible as well. fermentation doesn't HAVE to be a part of it but it COULD be. plus it doesn't explain why master of ceremonies would make a comment like "...too much to drink". how does that phrase make any sense if we're talking about regular juice??? sorry but i don't see it...
besides, 180 gallons of any kind of juice or even water is plenty for folks to be drinking, lol. unless the bride was real popular and she had hundreds and hundreds of guests
Well at least you see where I am coming from....thats more then some folks can I suppose.
I think the verses you quoted could just as easily refer to quality. Fermentation doesnt have to even be a part of it. New wine, or fresh squeezed juice was the best, also the most difficult to obtain in quantity. No wonder those who tasted it (what Christ made miraculously) found it to be better then the average stuff they'd been served first. He certainly wouldnt have done a miracle to create stale juice.
Also, the notion placed upon these verses is out of harmony with the rest of Scripture, which is quite logical to me. Its always best to take a total of Scripture before arriving at a conclusion. This common view that you presented also represents our modern view of the word "wine" which always refers to fermented beverage.
Booze in the Bible...
The first reference to wine is found in Genesis when Noah, after the Flood, had a few. "Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent" Noah drank and stumbled around naked and exposed himself to his sons. This experiment with booze ended with a scathing curse falling on Noah's son and children.
Lot also drank, and he was therefore easily seduced into having incestuous relations with his daughters. "So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose". The offspring of this relationship became the nations of Moab and Amnon, the mortal enemies of God's people. Gettin boozed up and gettin laid is quite a normal thing throughout history.
Then there is the infamous experience when the children of Israel drank alcohol, got naked, and worshiped a golden calf. This booze party ended in a horrible massacre.
Amnon, a son of David, raped his half-sister Tamar after a few belts. Because of this, he lost his life at the hands of his enraged brother while intoxicated.
Given these facts and the council of the Bible regarding booze it seems illogical to me that Jesus the Saviour made 180 gallons of booze for a party after the folks had already drunk all of the booze in the house. But maybe thats just me.
Last edited by metalman; 05-03-2006 at 07:43 PM.
im thankful that i dont have to go by bible rubbish to tell me what i can and cant do with my life
thankful to whom?
One mans rubbish is another mans treasure. Some travelers like to utilize a compass to gain a sense of direction rather then wandering aimlessly in circles. But to each his own.
drinking is fine in the bible, as long as you arent drunk.
i dotn know where it states it nor the full verse, but it is said in same meaning.
why do you think jesus turned water into wine?
How much does it take to be "drunk"??
This logic is a slippery slope.
I have seen published facts such as...
Tests show that after drinking 36oz of beer, there is an average of 13 percent net memory loss.
Trained typists were tested after a drink and their errors increased 40 percent.
Only one ounce of alcohol increases the time required to make a decision by nearly 10 percent; hinders muscular reaction by 17 percent; increases errors due to lack of attention by 35 percent by and 60 percent due to lack of muscular coordination.
Does one need to be puking in the toilet to be considered "drunk"?
I have done my share of drinking, I am quite familiar with it. It only takes a small amount of alchohol for a person to be inebriated to some degree.
So how "drunk" does a person have to be to be considered "drunk"?
Inebriation is just that, whether a little or alot.
Well the question is what kind of "wine" did Jesus make. One that inebriated people or who would have already been so since they consumed all the wine (if it was alcohol) in sight, OR was it simply fresh fruit of the vine, which is in keeping with every Scriptural principle about alcohol.why do you think jesus turned water into wine?
that's only b/c the typists wanted to get the hell out of the test so they could have more beer
that's only b/c the typists wanted to get the hell out of the test so they could have more beer
not trying to be a b*tch here but...(here comes the flaming after this)....there are truely no REAL Christians that I have seen or met.....
they are too caught up in the moment and really never think about their "sins" while they are committing it (getting drunk and lieing for example) THEN wants their souls saved by confessing or what not. So they don't really follow what they believe...or more so they change what Christianity is TRULY about and live their life around that...AS LONG AS THEIR SOUL IS SAVED AND END UP IN HEAVEN...in the end (death) which is really sad
So whats the difference with just 1 more sin...?
like i said...maybe this is just my situation...someone's experience with Christians could be different
Please don't kill me...LOL
why wouldn't it be called juice instead of wine...I do believe they knew the difference
I don't think with such a popular topic (since a lot of people drink) that the bible would be vague on what the miracle actual was, that of making wine out of the water. I don't believe it was juice. Gluttony is also a sin, but because we're having a feast it's ok to have a table full of food?
I think this is one of the situations that shows that God gives us a choice. I believe he turned the water to wine, not juice (which proves Jesus was black! jk) He left the moderation of their alcohol intake up to them. Wine seems to be accepted only when self control is involved.
There's a difference between me having a beer because I had a bad day and having a beer at a bbq.
Indeed THEY knew the difference. Its the translation causing us the difficulty...along with our modern conception of the word "wine"
There is only one word in the greek that was translated to english. That same word refers to any fruit of the vine whether fermented or not.
In some cases the Bible clearly indicates "new wine" which is not fermented.
In others its more ambiguious becase of the translation.
bible by my bed and a bottle in the freezer.. have i gotten drunk oh yeah but not to the point of not knowing what im doing. or passing out. i hate people who look down on people who drink. wtf is there problem..
^Cory Feldman?
I dont believe that drinking in itself is a sin but what you do while you are intoxicated could be.
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