I am a Christian, i do not support Islam.
I am a Christian, i do support Islam.
I am a non-believer and do not support Islam.
I am a non-believer and support Islam.
I am a Muslim or am considering becoming one.
I am not sure how i feel about Islam.
I have a very negative opinion of Islam.
I have a very positive opinion of Islam.
That's all for tonight. Moving forward, if you're going to inject your own opinion into this conversation and pawn it off as fact, like my friend David is, please provide a scripture that supports your thoughts. If you cant defend the scripture with scripture, then maybe i am perfectly right and justified in questioning this religious text.
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 09-07-2013 at 07:50 PM.
I am not "making up rules". I am remembering that the ancient world did not have the same viewpoints that we do today. I am not condoning their actions, I am simply looking at how the scriptures were written in the context of historical times, of which we have documentation on - that is not "making things up".Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
I suggest that you do a little research on the times of Mohammed. There are ample resources available, including documentaries.
Extremists are on the outer fringes of their beliefs - hence the term, extremist. They are not mainstream to their religion.
Yes, it part of the Islamic scriptures, and as I stated before, how is that any different that what we do now? How is beheading a worse death that electrocution? It just happened to be the popular method of execution in that part of the world at that time.
That is purely your opinion, and you are welcome to believe that if you like. It has no bearing on the discussion of the Islamic scriptures though, and by your own rules, shouldn't be included in this thread. If this is the route that you wish to go in discussion, then this thread can be locked/deleted/abandoned now.
While this is totally off the topic that this thread should be on, let me give you this insight.
My business partner for almost a decade was a devoted Muslim, and I spent a lot of time with his other Muslim friends, business acquaintances, etc. Being around Muslims on a daily basis, for large parts of everyday, gives you an opportunity to see how they are, what they believe, etc. Have you ever been around Muslims everyday for years on end? You make a big deal about your life experiences about your observations of other cultures in other threads - should no one else have this same insight on Muslim cultures? Let me ask you this, how many radical Islamic extremists and/or terrorist have you personally met, and spent time with? What is your knowledge and experience with the Muslim culture based upon?
Yes, there is a civil war in Syria currently, and if we are to believe all of your previous threads, we are on the verge of having one in the US soon as well. Are you aware that the current Mexican Drug War is also listed as a civil war? Last I checked, they don't believe in Islam, and religion is not playing a part in that conflict. What part does the Islamic scriptures play as a cause/reason in the Syrian conflict?
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
You should always question any book, especially religious books. No one is telling you not to question the Islamic scriptures, just to take them in context.
There is no need to bring in other scriptures "to contradict" the verses that you listed. Your understanding of them is what is the issue, not the scripture itself. You seem unable to wrap your head around that point.
The scripture that you brought up was no different than the story of the Hebrews taking the city of Ai in the Bible. It's really that simple - and not really controversial. It was written about a battle in which a few Muslims defeated a much larger force, and killed all of the non-believer leaders. Read all 75 verses of Surah Al-Anfal - not just one. Read up on the Battle of Badr, which the surah was written about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr - prior to this battle, the Muslims had no established moral principals. You blast them on their morals, and you blast this surah, but that is exactly what it was written to help start to establish.
The surah is really about:
- The fact that the victory was due to the help of Allah rather than their own efforts and bravery was stressed so that Muslims should learn to rely on Allah and obey.
- The moral lesson of the conflict between the truth and falsehood was explained.
- The mushrikin, the hypocrites, the Jews, and the prisoners of war are addressed advising them to learn a lesson.
- Instructions to the spoils of war. Muslims were told not to regard these as their right but as a bounty from Allah. Accept with thanks the share that is granted to them out of it and accede to the share which Allah sets aside for his cause, and for the help of the needy.
- Normal instructions concerning the laws of peace and war, needed at the stage which the Islamic movement had entered. It enjoined that the Muslims should refrain from ignorance whether they are in peace or in war and establish moral superiority in the world.
- The differences of status of Muslims living within the limits of Dar-ul-Islam, from that of the Muslims living beyond its limits.
Last edited by David88vert; 09-07-2013 at 09:03 PM.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Best opinion in this thread
Blank tell me more about how Sinfix is wrong
That is a huge surah, and that part is simply a declaration that the message coming from Allah through Mohammed is the truth, and that the Jew of Medina (and everyone else) should believe it as the truth, but they are aware that the ignorant will not believe it to be the truth. Non-believers will suffer the wrath of Allah, and may be stoned basically for the crime of not believing it to be the truth.
What is it exactly that you want to discuss about it? Seems like you are just taking a swipe at belittling their scriptures with your last two sentences, as there is no information that goes towards a talking point.
You did not mention what the surah was, but it is Surah Al-Baqarah.
You might want to consider choosing scriptures that are more discussion worthy, if you original post was intended by you to be genuine.
Last edited by David88vert; 09-07-2013 at 09:58 PM.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Logical fallacy after logical fallacy after straw man after straw man.
But that's not the purpose of this thread. The purpose is to justify being a bigot. He drew a false conclusion with hasty generalizations and is attempting to support it. Why do you think he's picked the worst part of the scripture. He's not gonna give you any scripture that's blue skies and roses.
Even says in the Quran for muslims to befriend nonbelievers to deceive them. How black and white does this need to be for you to get it? While you may be open minded and accepting of other religions, nothing about Islam shares that value. Islam is about control.
I talk to a former muslim on a daily basis. His entire family is muslim, but he gave it up to become a christian. He was a muslim for 30+ years. His family no longer has anything to do with him because of his decision. We talk almost every day and various life issues. His opinions of Islam are pretty close to my own. He's a lot more forgiving than i am and certainly not as hateful, but he says Islam is a very extreme religion and that they have no interest in ever being accepting of american values or other religions. I also have two other friends who belong to muslim families. Theyre brothers, neither of them are that religious and they both talk about how extreme their parents and families are. They're so cautious of how their parents are that they wont even bring anyone around them.
Why are you still here? You have no reservations about mocking christians, but you're acting like a crying vagina in this thread. Are your parents muslim? your girlfriend muslim? what is the cause for you being such a douche?
You dont have to hang on to my every word. You can avoid this conversation if you're too offended.
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 09-07-2013 at 11:29 PM.
It is your opinion that i'm taking it out of context, then put it in context for me. That is the discussion. I'm quoting scriptures. I've already stated that i am participating as the skeptic.
4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
So, basically, you do not know any devout Muslims. None of them go to the mosque on Fridays or spend time in the Muslim community. You only have friends who have left their faith. You are only exposed to the negative opinions. That explains a lot.
How many times have you or your family members been attacked by Muslims seeking to behead you for being an unbeliever? How many times have you seen something like an Islamic beheading of a non-believer happen inside the US borders? Are you claiming that none of the 2.6 million Muslims that live in the US are true Muslims? They might disagree with you.
The only hate speech that I see on this forum is coming from you - the atheist. I don't see any religious believers spouting the same amount of hate speech that you have admitted to.
Last edited by David88vert; 09-08-2013 at 09:04 AM.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Quoting a random scripture, and then giving no discussion point on it, accomplishes nothing. Make a point, and then show the scriptures that show or disagree with it. You didn't spend any time on the debate team in school, did you?
You definitely took it out of context - you didn't even give a reference to it, nor a talking point, just copied a random verse. Read the whole surah, and go look at history to see what it was being written about first, then state your point about it, along with supporting text/viewpoints/historical facts.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
So, you copy in a scripture, but nothing more? Make your case...4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Someone who spent 30+ years of their life as a muslim can offer an opinion. Your sample of life isnt any more credible than mine. Where does the superiority complex come from?
How many times has my country been attacked by muslims? the answer... enough.
What i say is not hate speech. The truth is not hate speech. You cant ignore the crimes of muslims and pretend they didnt happen. If youre arguing for the honor of the muslims that live peacefully, that's fine. I know 100% of muslims are not extremist, so you can stop now. Point has been made. 1000s of people still die in the name of this religion. The people doing the killing are muslims. The people doing the beheading are muslims. The people pouring acid on womens faces are muslims. The people cutting off hands and fingers are muslims. The people raping women and children are muslims. I find it hilarious that you accuse me of hate speech. I'm the one questioning the endless bloodshed on behalf of all religions..... you're the one defending this bloodshed.
How are these extremist so misguided? Do you not find it odd that there's an easy connection to make between their actions and the scripture itself.
You've made your entire argument an attack on me personally. All of the hostility in this thread is generated by you. I am reading the Koran....... apologies, it's not a Dr Sues book and i wont be done with it this weekend. I also plan on visiting a Mosque. I also attend christian churches. I have a few friends that play in their choir bands and i go watch them sometimes. They dont even know i'm an atheist. Religion is a curiosity to me, particularly its control over man.
I find it strangely interesting that this religion has even generated hate inside you, an otherwise calm and rational person. Perhaps it's influence is greater than you realize. When i see people talk about religion sometimes i feel like there's some type of brain control device putting out waves that i am immune to. From the outside looking in, it really is amazingly ridiculous.
PS.... beheading in the US. http://www.christianpost.com/news/eg...d-in-nj-90424/
Islamist extremism is an epidemic in the UK, with more and more immigration, these problems will make there way to the US. You cant make up your own facts. Regardless of how many innocent muslims you think there are, these vile acts on behalf of islam continue to happen daily.
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 09-08-2013 at 12:03 PM.
Yeah, figured i would give someone else a chance to speak first..... trying to sway the personal attacks. I'm actually interested in discussing the scripture itself rather than have someone attack me every post.
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 09-08-2013 at 11:57 AM.
The religion of peace....
Some political scientists, particularly Robert Pape, one such scientist who specializes in suicide terrorism, say there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism. He concludes that terrorist attacks stem from political conflict, and not religious conflict.
Sounds like an asinine conclusion to come to, but Islamic terrorism has a political presence too. Islam's goal is world domination. They are very active in the political arena. Egypt is currently in the process of removing muslim terrorists from their government.
I've love for you to lay out some examples of terrorism acted out by a muslim that was based on a political belief and not a religious one. The idea sounds ridiculous. So far every argument produced in favor is islam is a turn the blind eye denial of what happens on behalf of Islam. When a terrorist blows up a building while screaming "ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD" , you're still looking for something else to blame it on.
He's a scientist, and has come to a conclusion based on evidence. You've seemed to want to oppose the scientific method and want to make a false conclusion, and then find evidence to support that. Why do you believe this is the correct way to approach a problem, and that the entire scientific community is approaching it in the wrong way?Islams goal is world domination? Do you have evidence for that? Is that written in any text anywhere?but Islamic terrorism has a political presence too. Islam's goal is world domination. They are very active in the political arena. Egypt is currently in the process of removing muslim terrorists from their government.
Pape says he's analyzed over 300 significant events and has come to that conclusion.I've love for you to lay out some examples of terrorism acted out by a muslim that was based on a political belief and not a religious one.The idea sounds ridiculous.I dont think theres a single argument in favor of islam in this thread. Just a bunch of arguments against your false assumtions.So far every argument produced in favor is islam is a turn the blind eye denial of what happens on behalf of Islam.
Do you have evidence of them screaming this? I don't ever think I've heard that before. Of course, I've never been in a place where a building has been blown up, so I've never been within earshot of that.When a terrorist blows up a building while screaming "ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD"
It's written in the text everywhere. Continue participating in this thread and you will see plenty more scriptures. Islam's primary function, like a lot of other religions, is control. Just so happens that Islam is the most aggressive and lawless religion known to the human race.
Show these sources. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.
You really want to go this route of denial? I could literally post 100+ videos of muslims screaming religious phrases while committing murder and terrorism.....
Heres Pape's book "Dying to Win"
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...G_7d8-SkrrQ61Y
Could you cite some evidence refuting Pape? Please make sure your source is credible enough to cite in at least a college level assignment.
Great! If there are 100s of examples, then you could show just oneYou really want to go this route of denial? I could literally post 100+ videos of muslims screaming religious phrases while committing murder and terrorism.....
I agree. Get him to post his opinion in here. You aren't him.
You are the one who talks about personal experience in previous topics, but now, when the tables are turned, and you do not have the same personal experience, then the rules have to change. Interesting.
The fact is, you have no personal experience (that you have stated up to now) with Muslims who are active in you faith.
I agree.
It has also been attacked by the British even more times than Muslims have attacked. Should we kick out all British?
You state now that, "What i say is not hate speech. The truth is not hate speech", but in the other thread, you stated, "Fuck every single muslim walking this planet." To me, that reads as hate speech, not as "the truth". I based my statement of what you stated, clearly and simply.
Let me be clear, I am not telling you to ignore the crimes committed by terrorists, whether they are Muslim, Christian, Hindu, atheist, etc. I am pointing out a simple truth that the VAST majority of people of all religions live peacefully, and only extremists perform these heinous acts. They use religion as an excuse and a justification of their wrong-doings.
You point out extremists and act like all atrocities committed are due to their religious beliefs, yet we see Mexicans committing these same style of crimes at our borders, and you say nothing. I am not defending bloodshed, I am simply stating that you cannot make a blanket statement that all of the evil in the world is due to Islam, or that all that believe in Islam are evil. The statement from you, "Islam is filth", is hate speech, which you are entitled to make, but don't be surprised when you are called out on it.
People commit evil acts when it benefits them, and try to justify it - sometimes with religion, sometimes with other arguments. Aren't you a person that believes in personal responsibility? A book cannot make a person do evil acts - they have to choose to do those acts themselves.
Let me be clear - I am not attacking you, and I am not being hostile. I am simply pointing out issues with your statements. I have no dislike for you, or any problem with you, just that your statements are nothing more than opinions (which you are entitled to have) with no stated foundation. You claimed that you wanted a discourse on the surahs, but apparently, only if everyone agrees with you.
I agree that you should visit a mosque, a Buddhist temple, and a Jewish synagogue as well. Perhaps you should develop more friends of different religions if you have an interest in learning about them. I predict that you will find that the majority of people have the same goals as most - to give their children a better life that they have had.
Hatred from me? Are you on crack? I have no animosity towards anyone regarding Islam. I'm not Muslim, and don't aspire to be. I haven't made one hateful statement in any of these threads. You might want to look at your earlier statements. You are the one making blanket statements about a religion that you have shown that you know almost nothing about - based upon your own statements.
I'm guessing that you missed that he shot both of them to death first, then cut off their heads and hands in an attempt to prevent identification. The article never states that this was a religion-based killing, and even goes so far as to say that he was not particularly religious. The only people that speculated on it were disconnected from the accused. How is this any different than a "normal" murder? Perhaps you have more information than this article?
Extremism is an issue in the UK, and it might become an issue in the US in the future - I agree.
There are abut 2.6 innocent Muslims in the US today, would you have us condemn them all?
These vile acts are performed every day at the Mexico-Texas border, but I haven't heard you rant about that yet - only if there is some religious element that might be tied to it. In fact, murders happen all over the world every day, but you seem to be selective on these, and want to blame the religion, rather than the person that commits the crime.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Generally, when you want to have a discourse on a topic, you give a viewpoint with the topic.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
What does this post have to do with a discussion of a scripture? You are violating your own rules - or are you changing the rules?
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
You started the rock throwing. Also, the primary argument being presented is you and blank pretending like islamic extremism doesnt exist or are trying to minimize it. Consider the video evidence. My argument is that Islam is about control and their goal is world domination. You disagree... so i submit evidence in the form of a video.
I would prefer to talk just about the scriptures.... but you dont want to do that, you're focusing on your efforts on me and/or my credibility. You cant produce a scripture that denies anything i suggest, you simply attack my interpretation of it or take the route of denial.
No problem. You do the same. Quit speaking for anyone you know that is a muslim and let them speak for themselves. Your experience is no more credible than my own. You cant claim your experience as evidence and then discredit mine.
Yes i do. Just because a muslim hasnt beheaded someone in my living room doesnt mean that i do not see it happening. Just because they havnt bombed my neighborhood does not mean that they havnt bombed my country. If i was one of those people who got their legs blown off in boston would my opinion of muslims be valid then??? Do i have to wait to become a victim before speaking out?
Sure, show me where the british handbook instructs them to attack americans.
Yes, THAT is hate speech. I am an asshole and say asshole things. I recognize that not 100% of all muslims are evil. I do feel that every single muslim on this planet is at least a pawn in the grand scheme of things. They may not realize that what they are participating in is evil, but the fact that it is evil is the claim i am trying to make.
And among all religions, Islam has the greatest number if radical extremists and its not even comparable.
Islam is filth. I recognize that not all people who have fallen victim to Islam are bad people. I did not say all evil in the world is due to Islam. Also, i have spoke out about mexican crimes. I am consistent in my beliefs across the board, i show no favoritism to any group. Here you go again trying to blend islamic terrorism into another topic. You cant deny the evil acts committed on behalf of islam so you bring up other acts to compare it to. I'm happy condemning all terrorism everywhere, but this topic is dedicated to Islam.
You're right, but in this case the benefit is 72 virgins in heaven when an islamic terrorist participates in the jihad against western culture.
I'm happy with your scripture based retort, just not the personal attacks. Debate the scripture, not the person. If you feel i am misinterpreting the scripture, then perhaps that is the same reason the extremists are doing what they do. How is it so easy to connect their actions to the scripture?
I dont deny that. I could probably have the same experience at a KKK rally. I'm sure there's at least one decent family who believes they are doing what is best for them and trying to give their children a better life. In the grand scheme of things that doesnt change the fact that theyre a pawn in a much bigger plot. The koran specifically says for them to deceive and get close to infidels, to infiltrate and dominate. Everything is about expansion and control. They take advantage of our tolerance and acceptance. Muslims can freely come to my country as they please and life happy safe lives. If i were to go to their country, i would not be afforded the same luxury. If i went to an islamic region to preach christianity and live peacefully, i would be murdered, my wife and kids raped and/or tortured. The koran specifically mentions sexual acts as punishments and rewards for crimes. It's no wonder that their women are so oppressed and violated.
You seem unusually offended by a debate that you should have no attachment too. By your usual standard of civility, your approach in this thread is hostile. You made one post that was scripture based and then started derailing this thread with personal attacks. Regardless of what you think of me, my knowledge of or interest in islam or anything else, if you cant answer the scripture with scripture, then i am winning this debate.
Yeah, every crime such as this is always given the benefit of the doubt. A muslim cuts the heads and hands off of two christians, just a "normal" murder.
I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion..... i feel i'm one of the more "harsh" justice seeking individuals on this sight. I'm not out to convict any individuals for their religious belief, i just want the truth revealed. The political movement to endorse Islam is very troubling to me. I feel a lot of these innocent people are victims to disinformation and manipulation. It is my opinion that education almost always leads to a path away from religion.
Have read nothing prior to this post on the Quran or this thread.
To kill orhers(woman/children) for a religious belief is rediculous!
Again to kill thousands of "innocent" ...."people"......for your religion is ridiculous.
I can not understand for any god in any religious name to think the murder of thousands/hundreds of innocent people/humans is worth anyone's religious beliefs.
But to each their own.
The Middle East has always been violent...........
Genocidal..............
Agaisnt there own ..........
The Middle East will always be unsettled......no matter what the world does.
You've already lost the debate when you resort to using logical fallacies to support your position. There's no longer a debate happening. You've already drawn your conclusion. And that's fine. We're just letting you know it's bigoted, regardless of what you believe bigoted is.
Nope. The only thing i see so far is that you're all having a very hard time defending Islam. The logical fallacy being produced is your methods of defending Muslims who are not following the letter of the law laid forth by the Koran. Me speaking out against rape, murder, oppression and terrorism is not bigotry. By your definition of bigotry, every protester in the history of the world is a bigot.
Do you believe in Allah?
I haven't defended a single Muslim yet.
What are you talking about? There's only one definition of bigotry.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
What??Do you believe in Allah?
My thoughts on Islam are not based on prejudices. If anything, i am speaking out about the inherit bigotry of Islam. I'm not beheading, bombing, raping, murdering or oppressing anyone. Islam is not accepting of other religions and beliefs. The Koran endorses violent punishment for those who do not believe in Islam. That is bigotry.
Simple question, do you believe in Allah?
While this video is extremely disturbing, it maps out some scripture from the Koran and illustrates their application.
I didn't throw any rocks. I never pretended that Islamic extremism doesn't exist. I am not trying to minimize those acts. I never made any such statement that Islam is not about world domination. You just flat out lied in your whole statement above.
If you wanted to just talk about the scriptures, they you should have made your points while quoting them - but don't get upset when you get checked on your statements and experience. If your interpretation is incorrect, it will get pointed out. If you look back in the thread, I am the only one presenting facts to support my statements - you are the one in denial of the truth.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
What truth am i unaware of?
Pictures of people traveling to protest Islam on 9/11...... it would appear i am not alone in my views.
I made statements on my own experiences with dealing with Muslims - in business and in personal life, and from being around them while they were involved in religious activities. You made statements based upon what former Muslims told you. I didn't speak about what others told me, but from real world interaction. If you can't see the difference, then this discussion is hopeless, as you will never get it.
Like I said before, you have no personal experience (that you have stated up to now) with Muslims who are active in their faith. Reading about it in the paper and watching it on tv is not personal experience. If you believe that is personal experience, this topic is already over, as you are unable to comprehend the basics.
War of 1812 - you might have heard of it. Their war guidelines are quite a bit more recent than the Qur'an.
And you have every right to your opinion. I have no disagreement with you having that opinion.
While there is no publication of statistics that I am aware of, I would agree that at this point in time, the appearance is that more terrorists/radicals are using the Islamic religion as justification for their actions.
The statement, "Islam is filth.", is your opinion, and is expressly the type of hate speech that you claimed would not be part of this thread.
The reason that I bought up the current Mexican drug war is that it is a civil war that has its combatants using the exact same execution tactics (such as beheading), is next door to the US (literally), and its combatants do not use the excuse of religion for their actions. You have attempted to paint the Qur'an as the instruction guide for all of these style atrocities.
It's not "jihad against western culture". Go get your surah for discussion, and we can have that one.
Sources matter, when opinion is being stated - its not attacks, it's discovering the basis/foundation for the opinion. With no foundation of experience, why would the opinion be of value? Would you trust the opinion of your real estate agent on which pistons to choose for your boosted SR20, if he never even built an engine?
If you can keep your discussion to the scriptures, you should know by now, that I will do the same.
See, there you go again, trying to pretend that there is one family out of the multitudes that is not in on the "plot". Apparently, there are about 2.6 million not "in on the plot" - just in the US. Work with someone daily, be around their family, their friends, their religious leaders for a decade, and you will know if they are "deceiving and infiltrating". If they are leading "happy and safe lives", isn't that what you want?
I could travel to Lahore with no worries.
And, yes, the Qur'an does make mention of taking the women of defeated enemies. Guess what - most ancient cultures did that, and it still happens in modern conflicts. Doesn't make it right, and I'm not defending it - just recognize reality and take off the rose-colored glasses. People choose to be evil, regardless of religious beliefs.
I am not offended. I am not offended. I am not offended. Get it yet?
I don't have an attachment to this topic any more than any other - and probably less on this one. There is no emotion here from me.
I am being just as civil as I always am. Perhaps you just aren't used to me addressing your statements the very same way that I address blanks.
I addressed what you had - your opinion. You didn't come in with facts.
If you want to discuss scripture, then stay on that topic. As soon as you went off into opinion, you changed the discussion from what you stated originally that it would be.
Winning? LOL. You have to have something other than conjecture when you want to debate.
I'm guessing that you didn't read the article at all, or all of my previous post, as it appears that you missed that he wasn't known to be religious, and the only people even offering a religious motive are those who have never met him. The source of the article didn't make you a little concerned either?
You are entitled to your opinion. I have no problem with you believing whatever you want to believe.
Personal opinion - I do not believe that there should be an political movement to endorse any religion, nor a political movement to suppress or work against any religion, but I do recognize that this is not an option in the political system that we have here.
I do not agree that education always leads to a path away from religion.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
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