Jalopnik writes Transformers 4 copied Vengeance Camaro. Isn't this a GA built car?

[Sinfix_15]

Lol what a clown , I knew better responding!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

No need to get so butt hurt when someone drops the truth on you.

[Glides]

^^^^ if you don't patent something that's your fault . people steal ideas all the time.

Sorry Glides, you build a car, you cant patent it.

What you said.

And like I said, patent and copyrighting are completely different. So is creative license where the entertainment industry is concerned.

Either way, i'll be interested in finding out what happens. I hope he gets his due from them. It is owed to him. In the world of entertainment this is a rip. Same with a beat, lyrics, or a video for a song. They ripped it plain and simple.

[C230K]

What you said.

And like I said, patent and copyrighting are completely different. So is creative license where the entertainment industry is concerned.

Either way, i'll be interested in finding out what happens. I hope he gets his due from them. It is owed to him. In the world of entertainment this is a rip. Same with a beat, lyrics, or a video for a song. They ripped it plain and simple.

This is automotive not entertainment, people copy other people's car all the time, its nothing new. Take a look at the Car Pics Section of this forum and click on the car meets threads. For example take a look at the civics, they are all similar in some sort of way. Stickers check, Poked out wheels check, Hood riser check, Plush Domo hanging from the tow hook check, and etc. There is no reason for Vengeance to feel bummed at all, he should be more cocky if that.

[Vteckidd]

What you said.

And like I said, patent and copyrighting are completely different. So is creative license where the entertainment industry is concerned.

Either way, i'll be interested in finding out what happens. I hope he gets his due from them. It is owed to him. In the world of entertainment this is a rip. Same with a beat, lyrics, or a video for a song. They ripped it plain and simple.

theres no patent, and im not sure artistic copyright extends to a car. IM almost 100% sure it doesnt. Now, if he could somehow prove that he designed all this stuff himself then maybe he could treat it like a painting. But i highly doubt that, there are cars that look almost identical to his (not 100% the same).

WIthout being able to prove the "unique" aspect of the car, which he cant, all Michael Bay has to say is "wow, what a coincidence, ive never seen his car before".

Show me a case where someone sued and won that someone "copied" their car.

If hes lucky, Michael Bay , who seems like a car guy, might say "cool car" to him. BUt i highly doubt there is anything else he can get from it

[Glides]

theres no patent, and im not sure artistic copyright extends to a car. IM almost 100% sure it doesnt. Now, if he could somehow prove that he designed all this stuff himself then maybe he could treat it like a painting. But i highly doubt that, there are cars that look almost identical to his (not 100% the same).

WIthout being able to prove the "unique" aspect of the car, which he cant, all Michael Bay has to say is "wow, what a coincidence, ive never seen his car before".

Show me a case where someone sued and won that someone "copied" their car.

If hes lucky, Michael Bay , who seems like a car guy, might say "cool car" to him. BUt i highly doubt there is anything else he can get from it

You really haven't read a single thing I have typed really. It extends to any art. All he has to is show that it is art. Doesn't matter if it has an engine. Everything changes when they start making money off of the design. So while you can't sue any yahoo that copies your car and drives it to a meet, once it hits the big screen it's a whole different ballgame.

All it takes is the threat of a lawsuit and they will pay him. Costs them too much not too. Especially on a movie as large as Transformers 4. I work on movies, every day, and with that type of budget all he has to do is contact them. Anything under 50 grand is pennies to that show. So there is no case where someone sued a movie company and won because it will never get to that point. I hope that is simple enough to understand.

We'll see what happens. I hope it works out for him.

[Glides]

This is automotive not entertainment, people copy other people's car all the time, its nothing new. Take a look at the Car Pics Section of this forum and click on the car meets threads. For example take a look at the civics, they are all similar in some sort of way. Stickers check, Poked out wheels check, Hood riser check, Plush Domo hanging from the tow hook check, and etc. There is no reason for Vengeance to feel bummed at all, he should be more cocky if that.

And you are completely incorrect. This is NOT automotive, this entire thread is about Entertainment. Car pics section doesn't mean a hill of beans in what we are talking about. Why even post this?

Have you even read the build up on his car? Hood Riser? It took 4 hoods to make that hood, longer overhang and other little tweaks on the hood. Not counting the tweaks and changes to the rest of the body. All hand built, not bought. The grill alone on that car is a feat. Fully tig welded and lengthened. So you can point out poked wheels and tow hook and stickers....but you didn't read, you just looked and jumped in here with an assumption which was an ill informed one.

[-EnVus-]

LMFAO at the idea of copying something is stealing and offensable.....Guess almost everyone is going to be sued

[Sinfix_15]

The people complaining about a movie car looking like their own car and accusing a movie of stealing their design might be the biggest display of douchebaggery in the history of the site.

[Sinfix_15]

You really haven't read a single thing I have typed really. It extends to any art. All he has to is show that it is art. Doesn't matter if it has an engine. Everything changes when they start making money off of the design. So while you can't sue any yahoo that copies your car and drives it to a meet, once it hits the big screen it's a whole different ballgame.

All it takes is the threat of a lawsuit and they will pay him. Costs them too much not too. Especially on a movie as large as Transformers 4. I work on movies, every day, and with that type of budget all he has to do is contact them. Anything under 50 grand is pennies to that show. So there is no case where someone sued a movie company and won because it will never get to that point. I hope that is simple enough to understand.

We'll see what happens. I hope it works out for him.

[Vteckidd]

You really haven't read a single thing I have typed really. It extends to any art. All he has to is show that it is art. Doesn't matter if it has an engine. Everything changes when they start making money off of the design. So while you can't sue any yahoo that copies your car and drives it to a meet, once it hits the big screen it's a whole different ballgame.

All it takes is the threat of a lawsuit and they will pay him. Costs them too much not too. Especially on a movie as large as Transformers 4. I work on movies, every day, and with that type of budget all he has to do is contact them. Anything under 50 grand is pennies to that show. So there is no case where someone sued a movie company and won because it will never get to that point. I hope that is simple enough to understand.

We'll see what happens. I hope it works out for him.

Respectfully, having lots of experience in patent law, youre wrong. He should try and sue to see if he can win, but he doesnt own that car, Chevy does. He doesnt own the fender flares, someone else does.

He bought pre-made parts made specifically for his car that are offered to a wide degree of customers. Nothing about his car is truly CUSTOM (unless you can tell me what he handmade) and even then, its debatable.

Im sorry, its not ART in the terms of being protected against IP. Theres nothing illegal about seeing someones car and copying it.

Are you actually trying to tell me that IF i went and built a replica Jurassic Park Ford Explorer they could sue me?

I disagree, they would sick 1000s of lawyers on him to tell him to fuck off, because they cant have every fanboy internet person suing them over "hey that looks like my car"

[ISAtlanta300]

I think imma go sue the dealership... they have the same year, model, and color of my car on their lots! And not just one... a bunch of them!

[ISAtlanta300]

Respectfully, having lots of experience in patent law, youre wrong. He should try and sue to see if he can win, but he doesnt own that car, Chevy does. He doesnt own the fender flares, someone else does.

He bought pre-made parts made specifically for his car that are offered to a wide degree of customers. Nothing about his car is truly CUSTOM (unless you can tell me what he handmade) and even then, its debatable.

Im sorry, its not ART in the terms of being protected against IP. Theres nothing illegal about seeing someones car and copying it.

Are you actually trying to tell me that IF i went and built a replica Jurassic Park Ford Explorer they could sue me?

I disagree, they would sick 1000s of lawyers on him to tell him to fuck off, because they cant have every fanboy internet person suing them over "hey that looks like my car"

Exactly. For him to claim it is ART, he would have had to design the car itself. He didn't. Chevy did. He just added stuff to it.

If you built a fiberglass kit car into something you've never seen before, then you may have a leg to stand on. Or a West Coast chopper custom bike . Then you'd have to give credit to the builder.

[ISAtlanta300]

Are you actually trying to tell me that IF i went and built a replica Jurassic Park Ford Explorer they could sue me? "

As long as you don't use the Jurassic Park name or logo, you're good to go.

[Glides]

Are you actually trying to tell me that IF i went and built a replica Jurassic Park Ford Explorer they could sue me?

You are missing the the key point.

No, they could not sue you if you copied it and drove it around. YES they could sue you if you used it in your own movie, or music video, or promoted your business with it. You would get a cease and desist notice from them with a time limit to take whatever they feel you infringed upon down. If you don't, they sue you. THAT is what I keep trying to explain to you but you don't seem to get it.
It's not that they copied it, there is nothing that says they cant. It's that they will trademark HIS car and then use it's image to make themselves money. Whether he has a leg to stand on in a lawsuit, who knows. But the entire point of the thread was that they copied his car, and they did.

You keep falling back to you can't copyright or patent a car. You damn sure can and they will do it. Bumblebee, his car's likeness, will become a licensed trademark of that studio. How can you not see this? EVERY SINGLE Transformers vehicle and likeness is copyrighted and trademarked. Matter of fact, the Jurassic Park vehicle is also licensed and trademarked, wonder how they did that? For someone that claims to know a good bit about patenting and licensing, you are missing a good bit.

All he really has to do is send them a cease and desist and they will contact him. They might tell him to get bent, but I doubt it. It's negative publicity on their movie. If one of showed up on any movie i've worked on, they would take it seriously. It's too much risk for them when they can dump some money on them and make it go away. Motor Trend has gotten involved along with a couple others, so I guess it really doesn't matter what the bean squad on IA thinks.

[Vteckidd]

You keep falling back to you can't copyright or patent a car. You damn sure can and they will do it. Bumblebee, his car's likeness, will become a licensed trademark of that studio. How can you not see this? EVERY SINGLE Transformers vehicle and likeness is copyrighted and trademarked. Matter of fact, the Jurassic Park vehicle is also licensed and trademarked, wonder how they did that? For someone that claims to know a good bit about patenting and licensing, you are missing a good bit.

.

Bumblebee the character as a TRANSFORMER is INDEED copyrighted, NOT THE VW Beetle he was. Although I guarantee SINCE VW created the BEETLE they did have to get permission to use it. Do a little research and youll see the patents and trademarks Hasbro has.

Are you claiming he invented a car?

Wrong, the JP LOGO is copyrighted, not the Explorer itself. you can replicate that exact same explorer all you want, as long as you dont use the logo which is copyrighted.

Vengenace has NO CASE, he has nothing original to sue over nor did he create ANYTHING.

here let me make it more simple:

Michael Bay would have to ask for permission to use a Chevy in his movie, he would not have to ask for permission to use the color BLUE.

the only case, and i mean the .0000001% that Vengeance might have, is if he can somehow find someone willing to make the leap that Chevy Camaro>custom>bumblebee> merchandising rights> profit. He would have to somehow prove that the car is his and only his, no one else can copy it, he has a PATENT on the car and its design as some form of art, and that he has a right to the monetary licensing rights that the movie will produce.

IF that could even happen, ill bet you $1 million dollars the studio chooses a different car or changes something to get around the patent rules.

You are ignoring 1 key factor, HE HAS NO PATENT and a CAR IS NOT ART.

Youre saying i Could go buy a Playstation 3, paint it red, and if someone in a movie uses a red playstation 3 I can claim its mine and i own it. I mean its really ludicrous to claim someone who mods a car by buying other manufactures parts is somehow unique and special.

gimme a break.

[Vteckidd]

you realize there are 1000s of BUMBLEBEE colored camaros that you CANNOT sue over, there is no infringement. However, if you called your car Bumblebee and displayed a non paid for Autobots logo, you COULD be sued as the Character Bumblebee and the Logo are copyrighted/trademarked.

You have to ask yourself, could Michael Bay have come up with the design of this camaro WITHOUT ever seeing Vengeances car, I think the answer is YES.

So if i buy a CRX, paint it red, I can now sue anyone who uses a Red CRX in a movie if they attempt to monetize it? I think the issue everyone misses is that the character Bumblebee is trademarked not the car. If yo ucan point me to a case where someone sued or sent a cease and desist letter over a car that was styled the same, id love to see it. I doubt it exists.

Maybe youre right, maybe the studio would just pay him off to be over it, I liken it to ambulance chasing. the more you extort people over frivolous lawsuits, the less of a "car guy" i think you really are. It just ensures that in the future, studios will make you sign 100930292002s of pages of waivers to use a car, driving the cost of movie tickets up :P

my point has been made, i really have nothing else to add to the conversation.

[Glides]

Bumblebee the character as a TRANSFORMER is INDEED copyrighted, NOT THE VW Beetle he was. Although I guarantee SINCE VW created the BEETLE they did have to get permission to use it. Do a little research and youll see the patents and trademarks Hasbro has.

Are you claiming he invented a car?

Wrong, the JP LOGO is copyrighted, not the Explorer itself. you can replicate that exact same explorer all you want, as long as you dont use the logo which is copyrighted.

Vengenace has NO CASE, he has nothing original to sue over nor did he create ANYTHING.

here let me make it more simple:

Michael Bay would have to ask for permission to use a Chevy in his movie, he would not have to ask for permission to use the color BLUE.

the only case, and i mean the .0000001% that Vengeance might have, is if he can somehow find someone willing to make the leap that Chevy Camaro>custom>bumblebee> merchandising rights> profit. He would have to somehow prove that the car is his and only his, no one else can copy it, he has a PATENT on the car and its design as some form of art, and that he has a right to the monetary licensing rights that the movie will produce.

IF that could even happen, ill bet you $1 million dollars the studio chooses a different car or changes something to get around the patent rules.

You are ignoring 1 key factor, HE HAS NO PATENT and a CAR IS NOT ART.

Youre saying i Could go buy a Playstation 3, paint it red, and if someone in a movie uses a red playstation 3 I can claim its mine and i own it. I mean its really ludicrous to claim someone who mods a car by buying other manufactures parts is somehow unique and special.

gimme a break.

THANK GOD you understand partly now.

They copied the LIKENESS of his car right down to the same wheels he used. That car is a carbon copy of the likeness of his car...which THEY will now copyright. They will copyright the likeness of his car and make money off of it. Which for all intents and purposes it COPYING his car. Has this sunk in yet? It's your words man, not mine. I don't know why you are beating around this dead horse.

Buddy, Michael Bay has about a million other things on his mind other than researching how to come up with the perfect restomod Bumblebee. Things like turning a 21 year old girl in to a vegetable in a stunt gone wrong, or his assistant having a heart attack at his feet during filming. He leaves the finding of the cars up to his people in his art department do for him. Once they have ideas, he picks it. How long do you think a movie takes to film? From green light to pre-production to filming to post production to release? Things like picture cars are left to a designer who prints out photos of pre-existing cars and then they choose. They will modify them if they aren't exactly what they want, which in this case, the car was exactly what they wanted.

And the answer to your question about Bay coming up with the design....I highly doubt it. Nobody in this entire thread has shown a photo of another Camaro that is an exact copy of his. We get photos of a car with one thing, or a car with another. If it's so easy to come up with it, there should be hundreds of them. Not to mention the production company called up the exact same wheel manufacturer and ordered the exact same wheels with the exact same measurements when Totems were the only ones in existence with those specifications. His wheel manufacturer called him when the production called them to order the wheels. Asked for the ones on the Vengeance car. There is SO much more that you don't know about this thing. That is why it is so ironic that you are arguing so hard against it. You could just wish the guy luck and call it a day, but not you...oh no. It's to the mats for ol Vteckidd...as always.

Let's look at other cars what are trademarked.
The Monkeymobile, the Munstermobile, Dragula, The batmobile (All versions even back to the 40's which was a production car), Mad Max's Falcon XB, The Jurassic Park Exlorer, The Fast and Furious vehicles and many many more. They are all trademarked. Not the CAR, but the likeness of the car. That way the production companies can give out a licensing right to say...Mattel Toys, to make little toys of them you can put on your desk at work, each and every one of the Monster trucks that compete, Nascars, Formula one cars...the list goes on and on. Copy one of those and try to use it to make money. Lawsuit. A car most certainly is art. Some of the ones above are full out customs, some aren't. The Mad Max car is a complete bolt on car, I have a build sheet for it. No custom parts about it. So If you don't think the can be trademarked, use your skills and copy one, promote your business with it and see what happens.

As for waivers, I know now that you know nothing about the film industry. EVERYTHING already has waivers. You stick to building cars Kidd, you are pretty good at it. The film industry is out to do one thing and one thing only, separate you from any dollars you have in your pockets. Also, how in the world does a frivolous lawsuit make me any less of a car guy. That one was pretty far reaching there Vtec. Especially when all I have tried to do in this thread was enlighten you on how the film industry works and I was sticking up for a car guy. It's you who has tried at every turn to tear him down, tear his car down and make it all look like he was a greedy kid right up to having to eat crow earlier in the thread say you were trying to do that. Get real Kidd.

Anyway, i'm out. It was an enlightening discussion as always on Import Atlanta. Good luck all of ya.

[Vteckidd]

well then its on you guys to prove me wrong. Fact is this is all Bullshit unless you can show me where you can prove LIKENESS is the same as stealing ART. He doesnt have a copyright or patent or trademark on his cars likeness. Unless you are now equating likeness with defacto trademarking.

Im sorry I just disagree with you. Car guy or not, i see ZERO evidence of anything being STOLEN considering he doesnt own the style or design of his car in the first place. I know the waivers needed to have cars in movies, I was at FF5 filming. I had friends in it. Most of it was waivers for damages and such. But even so its not the same thing you are equating this too.

in regards to merchandising, go for it, man up, sue, prove me wrong.

good luck