Do you believe in sience?

[geoff]

I have been a very active member in the religion forum but took some time off for a while. Most of you know how i tried my best to defend my faith and to try and show others why i believed. God knows, and some of you as well, how many different threads used to be in this section lol. Well after a short pause, I am back. Hello again to those with whom I have had fierce debates with and I hope you all are doing great. Now, to business.......

I have seen countless times the case for creation and God shut down rather quickly due to a lack of " tangible" or "scientific " evidence. The biggest cause of this with mainstream athiests, is that they say they can not reproduce creation according to the scientific method....therefore it can not be. I have a question for you all that claim God does not exist.....Does your science actually answer your questions of " who are we", "why are we", and " how did we get here" or does it leave you rather with more questions? There seem to be mainly two schools of thought on " how did we get here". We have Creation or intelligent design and The big bang theory/evolution. I will not sit here and try and explain why God is real or try and prove Him by scientific method. I will not simply say," because the Bible says so" either. Instead I will try and see why some of you go with science rather than the supernatural.

Now, most of us on this board have not gone to school to study physics, evolution, genetics, astrology, ect.... Most of us rather are just normal people working 9-5 that have questions and have done our fair share of research to try and answer the questions we so desperately want a definitive answer to. It is common knowledge that the theory of the Big Bang begins with Einsteins theory of relativity. That theory was then expanded upon by Friedmann and so on and so forth. There are many different models of this theory all which make certain assumptions...i.e. is the universe homogeneous or not...ect....

I have looked into the different models and different theories quite a bit and i found myself more confused at the end than when i began. The conclusion ( in its most simplistic form) that I came up with was this....Some really smart guy long ago came up with the theory of gravity and time and so on based on mathematical equations and information that was available to the current scientific community and for a century it has stood. Then another smart guy came and did some more math and made more assumptions and stated, " Ah HA!!!!! Eurika!!!! I know where the universe came from!" It all started 13 billion or so years ago when there was nothing but infinite heat and matter and all of a sudden it exploded and helium bonded with another element and so on and then there were stars and planets and such!

But then someone asks, " but why did this happen? and where did this all come from?" Then some more assumptions were made and it was concluded that the universe is expanding....and there was at one point....a beggining or singularity. However entertaining this explanation is with its very advanced math and use of big words....it leaves one still questioning. As more knowledge became known and more questions came, there came more models...now, some believe there to be many universes( many theories on this yet strangely no evidence to suggest this) and so on and so forth.

My point is this, none of you have studied physics nor anything else to do with the universe. No one knows for sure that the men and women that came up with these so called "scientific" proofs, formulas, theories, ect are even right. I mean, these scientist started their studies from nothing and all of a sudden come up with evidences. How to we know their calculations are right? What happens in another 100 years when new information is discovered and these models become ridiculous? You say there is no God yet you believe faithfully the studies of a man you never met nor have the knowledge to test.

Someone please answer this question intelligently....Knowing that the law of cause and effect is indisputable, so why then believe in the big bang theory over God when in fact, it does not answer how the universe originated? We were not there at the beggining or before it, so then why is it safe to assume that we as humans can explain the origin with our extremely limited knowledge of ourselves and the universe?

[geoff]

If you were to go strictly according to mainstream science then you would come to this conclusion....There is no purpose, no meaning, no afterlife, no ghosts, no aliens, no evil, no good, no miracles, no fate, no luck, no such thing as chance....yet every theory and model rests entirely on that last part...."chance". What they are saying and you are believing is that no matter how numerically impossible the odds are of the universe, our planet, and life entirely turning out the way it did; that by chance it happened. And yet, science can not test the methods of chance or explain it in a lab.

[-EnVus-]

My father was a Minister, and i learned not to push God onto others and that man could never fully understand the Bible. So all i can say is people will never be satisfied Religious,Non Religious or Atheist just cause they won't hear the Answers they seek. To answer your question though...Yes i do believe in science for God used it in creating everything and that's the best theory over some made up idea like magic.

[jonbuice5591]

i didnt grow up going to church every sunday or anything like that but my family is aslso religious so i grew up learning about god and my reading the childrens bible books whenever i was younger. so i too believe in god. oh and i like your sig

[geoff]

I did not mean do you believe in science in general....i meant to show how utterly ridiculous it is how so many believe in a theory that they know absolutely nothing about nor have the knowledge to understand it or how it came to be. You try and tell them about God and they say well prove it. I no longer push God on people. I learned why so many people have cursed Christianity and God and said that its all make believe. I lost faith in the " Church", i do not believe it is anywhere close to what God expects of it. But that does not mean i throw away my faith in God and Jesus as my Savior. My actual point of this is to get to the root of why so many are falling away and dismissing God. Its very alarming, but what i have concluded is that they lost faith in the men and institution that are supposed to represent our Lord. Thanks jonbuice....

[geoff]

by the way, there is a fine line between science as a means of explaining how God does something and replacing God all together...wouldnt you say?

[-EnVus-]

by the way, there is a fine line between science as a means of explaining how God does something and replacing God all together...wouldnt you say?

Yes and I to left the church as a child it has became disloyal and corupted

[jonbuice5591]

My dad raised me and we all believe in god and we all worship him. We never went to church growing up because he didnt think it was loyal either. So whenever i was about 13 i decided to go and see what it was all about and the preacher came up and introduced himself and asked me to cut my hair because i didnt look presentable in gods house. I grew up listening to rock music and loved the long hair. I said with all do respect sir jesus had long hair so would you ask him to cut his hair to look presentable or take all of the pictures of him out because they arent presentable? He got mad and kicked me out. Thats the reason why i do not attend church. Dont get me wrong i love god and will praise him forever but i didnt feel like a pastor should judge people especially whenever hes preaching gods word. He loves each and every one of us. Were his children! Thats why i get so aggrivated whenever people say that tattoos are for devil worshipers. I have long hair and tattoos and i worship god.

[quickdodge®]

i meant to show how utterly ridiculous it is ......

Still showing your true religious side. I was going to make a post to respond when I saw this comment by you. You couldn't just get a discussion going without reverting back to your true self. Judging others and name calling (probably) "in the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost." Later, QD.

[.blank cd]

I don't believe in science.

I know that it works

There is no such thing as "mainstream science"

[.blank cd]

Let me rephrase. I believe you are using the word "believe" interchangeably with "faith"

[Bacon]

....... My actual point of this is to get to the root of why so many are falling away and dismissing God. Its very alarming, but what i have concluded is that they lost faith in the men and institution that are supposed to represent our Lord. Thanks jonbuice....

Have you thought about the ones that never "believed" in a deity to begin with; how are they to fall away or dismiss something that was never part of their lives to begin with? How can they lose faith in something they never chose to have in their life? Sounds to me you are pushing your faith on people and asking for an explanation in return.

Personally, I am an agnostic atheist and will remain that way until the end of my allotted time. Why? It is my choice and no one person can change it regardless of how hard they try.

Question to you. How do you know YOUR religion is the right one?

[Sinfix_15]

you ever watch the show "Ancient Aliens" ? the name sounds like it would be something foolish, but they have some very interesting and scientific theories about creation and religion.

This is a gross summarization of an idea, but i look at the Jesus story about the same way i look at my buddies fishing stories. He caught a 5lb bass, told someone about it. Next time he told someone else it was a 6lb, then 8lb... few years later he's sitting around the camp fire telling us about the 500lb shark he once caught.

I dont doubt Jesus may have existed and may have been a great person and did great things. I dont doubt he was crucified (like 1000s of others). Jesus was just as common a name as John and crucifixions were equally as common. This story has been retold, rewritten, retranslated over 1000s of years. I think it went from "Jesus was a great man" to "he walks on water, parts seas, and is the son of God".

Another tidbit of information, history records suggest that Mary was about 15 years old. In that time, sex out of wedlock was punishable by death. Why cant we apply the same logic we would today to these old stories? if your 15 year old daughter walked into your kitchen pregnant and told you she was a virgin, you wouldnt believe her. Why? because its absolutely ridiculous.

There's also several cases of forged efforts to provide proof of god's existence by respected church affiliates. Even commonly accepted "acts of god" have been easily explained by science. Stigmatas for example, you can hypnotize someone into believing and induce a stigmata. The mind is a powerful thing.

Another funny phrase i hear used by christians on issues like stemcell research and cloning. "playing God", if we can "play God", then maybe there's nothing special about "him" to begin with. If humans can create life, soil, plants, materials that exist here on earth, then maybe we created it all to begin with.

[oreign]

you know someone's dead religious when they misspell science.

[Sinfix_15]

My dad raised me and we all believe in god and we all worship him. We never went to church growing up because he didnt think it was loyal either. So whenever i was about 13 i decided to go and see what it was all about and the preacher came up and introduced himself and asked me to cut my hair because i didnt look presentable in gods house. I grew up listening to rock music and loved the long hair. I said with all do respect sir jesus had long hair so would you ask him to cut his hair to look presentable or take all of the pictures of him out because they arent presentable? He got mad and kicked me out. Thats the reason why i do not attend church. Dont get me wrong i love god and will praise him forever but i didnt feel like a pastor should judge people especially whenever hes preaching gods word. He loves each and every one of us. Were his children! Thats why i get so aggrivated whenever people say that tattoos are for devil worshipers. I have long hair and tattoos and i worship god.

I feel your pain, i spent 8 years with the preacher's daughter. Nothing like unveiling sleeve tats at a family pool party.

[CSquared]

They must have flipped when you busted out the banana hammock.

[geoff]

Qd- i was showing just how some who call themselves atheist mock those with religious beliefs. You took one statement out of my whole argument and debate much like you were in a buffet line. Please show ( you can copy and paste) where i once judged or name called anyone in this thread....i'll wait....

Bacon/blank cd- read closely my friend. I did not once offer to explain my side of beliefs did i? So how then am i pushing my beliefs on you? The atheist and agnostic believers do have " faith " in scientific explanations of our origins. Why is it faith? because 99% of atheists and agnostics can not even explain what the big bang actually means nor do they have the knowledge to test it, rather they blindly listen to Richard Dawkins and the like and believe what these men say. My question to those who believe there is no God and follow rather the Big Bang/evolution model is still this....Why do you believe this over the thought of God? Also, you asked how i know my " religion " is the right one.....i dont follow a " religion ". I believe in a personal relationship with God. How do I know its real? I searched for Him and He found me....since then i have experienced many things i can not explain with rationality...the relationship has been very two sided.

Sinfix- there are very detailed Bible verses which will debunk all of your arguments. As far as ancient aliens goes....there is no more tangible proof of their existence than tangible proof for God. Its people these days not able to explain a phenomenon and filled in the blanks. By the way, i too am tatted up and lost faith in the church and mainstream Christianity...i personally believe it has become a former shadow of the church founded by Christ and continued by the Apostles.

[quickdodge®]

Qd- i was showing just how some who call themselves atheist mock those with religious beliefs. You took one statement out of my whole argument and debate much like you were in a buffet line. Please show ( you can copy and paste) where i once judged or name called anyone in this thread....i'll wait....

If you would have read what I typed, you would have seen where you did judge and, in a sense, name called. No need to "copy and paste" as I actually quoted it in my initial response. I also told that I was going to respond until I saw that line. When you come in like that, that's what you'll get out of it. Later, QD.

[geoff]

This is what the entire sentence reads..."i meant to show how utterly ridiculous it is how so many believe in a theory that they know absolutely nothing about nor have the knowledge to understand it or how it came to be." Please show me the name calling and judgement coming from me. My comment was the same as saying," it is utterly ridiculous for people to believe the words and promises of a politician without first doing research into their past and what they have been known to stand for" Now, was that comment name calling or passing judgement, or rather making a true statement that it is completely ridiculous for someone to base their life's beliefs on something they actually know nothing about? I would like a response to my question from you because you are a mature individual who seems to have a mind of his own and second because i have always enjoyed our " debates ".

[geoff]

This picture says a lot to the point i am trying to make...

[Sinfix_15]

Sinfix- there are very detailed Bible verses which will debunk all of your arguments. As far as ancient aliens goes....there is no more tangible proof of their existence than tangible proof for God. Its people these days not able to explain a phenomenon and filled in the blanks. By the way, i too am tatted up and lost faith in the church and mainstream Christianity...i personally believe it has become a former shadow of the church founded by Christ and continued by the Apostles.

This is usually the reasons Atheist and Christians get up in arms when arguing. You cant use the bible as a source of information when trying to prove the bible's validity.

" i dont believe pigs can fly " Christian - "but the bible says pigs can fly". The whole idea is that people dont believe the bible, so using the bible to prove anything will just make you spin your wheels. The ancient aliens show is using tangible evidence you could go view personally if you wanted, to explain their points.

I'm willing to listen to a christian try to convince me, but need more evidence than the bible. I can convince you that people are bulletproof and can walk on the ceiling if you let me use the Matrix trilogy as a reference.

[Sinfix_15]

This picture says a lot to the point i am trying to make...

the picture would be more accurate if one baby said to the other " hey, when we're born, our mom is gonna have 4 arms, lazer eyes and the ability to summon dragons to defend us, just have faith"

[geoff]

My reference to Biblical passages was not to " prove" God but rather to debunk your 15 mary story and " playing God ". I am not trying to convince anyone to believe in Christianity...if you want a solid argument about the issue i am more than willing to meet anyone up and talk in person. The point of this thread is to see what others believe and why. The picture i posted is perfect as it is, it represents humanity in a contained space( our own short life spans ) with limited knowledge of our surroundings( for anyone to say "we" have it all figured out is ridiculous) trying to explain something that is beyond us and that we could not possibly even begin to comprehend in detail. Science likes the explanation of the Big Bang yet it is giving way to more detailed models with even less evidence...i.e. multi-verse theory. The theories that have begun to surface almost seem as if they should belong in a sci-fi blockbuster hit. Science is forever changing and always will as more men do more calculations and we learn more about ourselves and surroundings.

[geoff]

So sinfix, i ask you, what do you believe in and why?

[Sinfix_15]

So sinfix, i ask you, what do you believe in and why?

I believe that neither myself or anyone else has any idea about the afterlife and that anything said in relation to it is nothing more than a guess. I believe that Christianity's grip on the population cripples our growth collectively. Sure it's great that Christianity spreads a message for people to have good moral character, but we dont need these people making or influencing decisions for Government. For all the talk about faith and willpower, i think Christians show their true doubt when they constantly try to remove the choice from the individual. If you're a Christian and you dont want to have an abortion, drink beer, smoke weed, or watch pornography.... then dont. You dont need laws against it. The laws Christians want put into place are to govern non-Christians like myself. Make your choices, let others make there choices.

Christianity, for all it's merit... is equally as forceful as the other "extremist" religions that go to war over their beliefs. I want to share the world with you. You (Christians) do not share that sentiment.

What do i believe in? in a word...... Freedom.


Me personally, i dont see a difference in these 2 pictures.

[geoff]

I didn't ask why you don't believe in Christianity, there are COUNTLESS reasons why one should stay away from the " church " these days. I agree with you to an extent, Many evil deeds have been done in the name of some deity or another. But if you look back in history, the " modern" christian faith is no where even similar to the first established christian church. Your statements almost made you sound like you should be campaigning lol...just saying....so in essence, you said that to have ideas about the afterlife is just a guess. Does that mean that you don't support the atheistic belief that there is nothing after death?

[NaNissan]

Geoff no man can explain to you the answers you seek, man has faults thats why the bible should be considered for what it is a very good book of thoughts that man has come up with over the years to explain what they thought happened. No different from science today its a thought of man.
I do believe we were created by a force (god as some of you may call him) that our little minds cant begin to understand.

[geoff]

NaNissan- good answer, this has been the whole point of this thread...that whether one believes in God or the explanation science gives, it takes faith to believe in either one. But I find it surprising that the scientific explanation is taken as pure fact....

[Sinfix_15]

I didn't ask why you don't believe in Christianity, there are COUNTLESS reasons why one should stay away from the " church " these days. I agree with you to an extent, Many evil deeds have been done in the name of some deity or another. But if you look back in history, the " modern" christian faith is no where even similar to the first established christian church. Your statements almost made you sound like you should be campaigning lol...just saying....so in essence, you said that to have ideas about the afterlife is just a guess. Does that mean that you don't support the atheistic belief that there is nothing after death?

i didnt really chose the title "atheist", that's one that is applied to me. I dont follow the beliefs of anyone else. I believe what i believe simply because i believe it. I dont know if there's an afterlife or not. It would be nice if there was. I like the "good parts" of all religions, but i dont believe in any of them. When i see a christian that really walks the walk and represents his/her faith with good character (Tebow for example), i respect that person, even though i dont share his/her beliefs. My only issue with any religion is when it directly effects my life or something i want to do or feel i have the right to do.

I would like to believe in a God and an afterlife, but i cant force myself to do it. When i watch movies, i wish that the super heroes were real too, but i cant bring myself to believe in it without any proof or logical explanation. Theoretically speaking, if Jesus came down from heaven and held a press conference. I would believe in him and follow the religion.

[Sinfix_15]

NaNissan- good answer, this has been the whole point of this thread...that whether one believes in God or the explanation science gives, it takes faith to believe in either one. But I find it surprising that the scientific explanation is taken as pure fact....

i think more people side with science because science is an open ended debate. If something new happens tomorrow, science will adjust and try to explain it. Christianity will always produce the same old "bible says so" or "have faith". Science is infallible because its fallible. Science can be wrong and correct it'self. The bible will always be the bible and is free and void of any question or judgment.

[geoff]

There has to be one single absolute truth though, would you not agree? There can not be more than one way that the universe began or how it was done, eventually there will be one universal truth just as there is a universal truth that gravity exists. What the "Christian" faith is, is one possible absolute truth....with time it will be either totally taken apart or completely proven ( according to the Bible, one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord). To base ones entire existence on an ever changing explanation and infallibility because it is fallible....that really confuses me. For me personally; to believe in a solid foundation, never changing, faith based answer and explanation is more than enough. I believe every word of the Bible as historical text as much as one would an american history book. It works for me because i can see it, study it, learn it, live it, and hold it. And to my knowledge, none of the claims of the Bible have ever been proven as completely false. They have been found suspicious and debated yes, but no evidence has ever been given to say 100% " that is pure fiction and never happened...here is the proof...". To each his or her own though....

[Sinfix_15]

There has to be one single absolute truth though, would you not agree? There can not be more than one way that the universe began or how it was done, eventually there will be one universal truth just as there is a universal truth that gravity exists. What the "Christian" faith is, is one possible absolute truth....with time it will be either totally taken apart or completely proven ( according to the Bible, one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord). To base ones entire existence on an ever changing explanation and infallibility because it is fallible....that really confuses me. For me personally; to believe in a solid foundation, never changing, faith based answer and explanation is more than enough. I believe every word of the Bible as historical text as much as one would an american history book. It works for me because i can see it, study it, learn it, live it, and hold it. And to my knowledge, none of the claims of the Bible have ever been proven as completely false. They have been found suspicious and debated yes, but no evidence has ever been given to say 100% " that is pure fiction and never happened...here is the proof...". To each his or her own though....

I agree with you, i would love a solid foundation to stand on. With that said, i'm not going to fabricate one just because i need it. Science understands that we dont have all the answers, may never have the answers and will always be seeking the answers.

Christianity claims to have all the answers, even though they have the extremely clever and manipulative disclaimer put in place called faith.

As the saying goes..... the dumbest person in the room is the one who thinks they know everything. Christianity closes the minds of many people when it tells them to stop seeking answers for the unexplainable and simply have faith. At one point in time, people thought the world was flat. Everything we knew up to that point, we couldnt prove otherwise. Someone kept seeking the answer and eventually found it. The answers we dont have today will eventually be found. I'm gonna side with the people who are still looking and not those who live their life based on a retranslated recollection of stories written by men.

[Sinfix_15]

Geoff, simple question of morality.

What would you do if someone raped your daughter?

[geoff]

I would take that man and beat the living $hit out of him. I believe in God but I am still human. I am expected to forgive, but im not perfect. True belief in God does not put down those that seek answers. The " church " would have you believe that we are to be blind following the blind. I believe God expects us to think rationally, to seek answers, and to be open minded; otherwise He would not have created us as intelligent beings. What I believe though, is that one must consider all possible truths and then take the time to personally invest in researching. I wonder how many people that say God does not exist have invested this time to actually search for Him. I wonder how many people actually have a problem with God or have a problem with the men and institution that has failed to represent Him?

[Sinfix_15]

I would take that man and beat the living $hit out of him. I believe in God but I am still human. I am expected to forgive, but im not perfect. True belief in God does not put down those that seek answers. The " church " would have you believe that we are to be blind following the blind. I believe God expects us to think rationally, to seek answers, and to be open minded; otherwise He would not have created us as intelligent beings. What I believe though, is that one must consider all possible truths and then take the time to personally invest in researching. I wonder how many people that say God does not exist have invested this time to actually search for Him. I wonder how many people actually have a problem with God or have a problem with the men and institution that has failed to represent Him?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Exodus 21:7-11 - When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


Deuteronomy 22:23-24 - If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Can a Christian be a Christian without believing in the entire bible?

[geoff]

Yes, the scriptures you listed above are Old Testament. They were the laws that the Jews as a people, society, and culture followed. Much like the laws that govern our very own society. The New Testament or " New Covenant" does away with the law, " as law did not bring forth life, but rather death". Jesus new covenant with man was to follow the laws of those put in positions of government authority, but to also follow two basic spiritual laws that in themselves hold all the commandments and amendments of the Mosaic Law...." Love thy God with all thine heart, soul, mind, and strength and to love thy neighbor". You point back to Mosaic Law as ridiculous or non relevant yet there are still laws in the books in the U.S.A that forbid spitting on the street.....

[Sinfix_15]

Yes, the scriptures you listed above are Old Testament. They were the laws that the Jews as a people, society, and culture followed. Much like the laws that govern our very own society. The New Testament or " New Covenant" does away with the law, " as law did not bring forth life, but rather death". Jesus new covenant with man was to follow the laws of those put in positions of government authority, but to also follow two basic spiritual laws that in themselves hold all the commandments and amendments of the Mosaic Law...." Love thy God with all thine heart, soul, mind, and strength and to love thy neighbor". You point back to Mosaic Law as ridiculous or non relevant yet there are still laws in the books in the U.S.A that forbid spitting on the street.....

There has to be one single absolute truth though, would you not agree? There can not be more than one way that the Bible is translated. How can we have faith in something that changes at it's own convenience? The old testament evolved to exist. The bible as it was written ceased to be accepted by man. The "institution" then changed the Bible to conform to the masses that they still wished to manipulate. Jesus wasnt alive to make this decision, who gave the authority and why should i value their word or judgement more than any other man?

[geoff]

There is one absolute truth as far as Biblical interpretation goes. If you are not a scholar of the Bible then I wouldn't expect you to understand. The Old Testament did not " evolve " to fit the ever changing morality of men....Jesus did not have to authorize a rewriting of it. He was and is the complete fulfillment of Mosaic Law and abolished it when He died on the cross and rose again. The "Law" was needed to continue civilization but itself did not give freedom nor justify the man. The Old Testament was full of prophecy of one that would be born to due away with the old kingdom and bring in the new....Jesus was this promised "Christ" who did away with the "Law" that bound men and brought death and instead gave them freedom, life, and justice in the form of the "Law of Grace". The basic message outlined throughout the scriptures has not changed my friend. That can clearly be seen as ancient manuscripts have been discovered that show this. What has changed in the Bible is not translation but rather application.

[CptWitwiki]

you talk about those who blindly follow Darwin as if they are "utterly ridiculous," however did you take into account that his theory is proven, and that he, himself, was a christian. his theory was not intended to say that God doesn't exist but rather explains several natural phenomenon and supports god as a generous creator. God created the earth and allowed it to take its course, he gave us the ability to evolve over time. Because if you believe blindly that God created up in our current form, then why did he give us a blind spot in our eyes but not give one to the squid? does he love the squid more than he loves us? also, you are an intelligent designer such as God, do you use the same materials to create man as you use to create several other animals? would you use the same materials to create a tank and a plane? no it doesnt make sense he would have made us perfect. Also, the bible says that to get into heaven you must accept Jesus as you lord and savior... correct? well what about all those who don't believe in Jesus because they were born in another part of the world are they condemned to hell just for where they were born?
i believe that God and science are both very real, i just dont believe in the Bible bc it was written by man and as sinfix said stories get embellished over time. To say that science is wrong is a silly statement while it is not all 100% correct some of the things are backed with clear evidence.

[geoff]

Is evolution scientific fact? what about the so called " missing link" ? I never said i don't believe in science...after all, there are factual natural laws that govern our universe. How do you know that people in other parts of the world have not heard about Jesus? Faith in Christ is not something that is only practiced in the western hemisphere....or would you like me to give you tangible proof of this before you believe? Once again let me highlight my point so it is clear...."What has changed in the Bible is not translation but rather application."