This has always been my understanding.Originally Posted by STRteg
This has always been my understanding.
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That's why they call it faith.
That begs the question that even if you saw it, would you believe it?
Even in biblical terms (based on the Bible) this was true and yet there were those without faith. Where God was with the nation and yet man still refused to believe. So even if tangible evidence were there, would you believe what you saw to be true or would you also explain it away using some theoretical ideology?
I like to use Hollywood because they do such a great job portraying life. Even though they are works of fiction or whatever genre thereof, it still is a story of humanity and human behavior. The stories, ideology, thoughts and theories are all visualized for the audience in a way to allow them to understand. You should watch the kid's movie "Horton Hears a Who".Exactly what you speak of.
First off, it's very nice to see this section come back to life. It has been some time since I have seen any life in here. I hope all is well with everyone and that this year has started out prosperous and good for everyone. Now that that is aside; I will try to answer the original question as well as give a response to something a few posts above.
Faith- The Bible defines faith as thus; " Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1. There is no scientific proof to validate someone's faith. Science can not be used to explain that which transcends all that we sense and perceive. God is above our minds and thoughts, He is outside of our "box" because He goes beyond what any single one of us or mankind in general can experience in one life time. We understand things based on time, some of us get 75 years and others a few months. To explain a God who is not bound by time but created it and not bound by physical laws because He wrote them; would be like trying to explain to an infant the human anatomy or physics. It can not be done with science or theories because those are based on our own limited knowledge and understanding of the world around us. Faith goes beyond all understanding and reason, it requires effort and a truly open mind. I learned long ago that there is no way to prove God nor ones faith, simply because you can choose to either believe or dismiss evidences in nature and even in our own bodies. Faith starts because the Holy Spirit calls us. We all have a yerning to search out the unknown and the reason we are here. The Holy Spirit calls to a man's soul and gives him conviction for sins. When we stand in the presence of the Holy God we are humbled and only then will faith begin. You can not expect to search for God already expecting to find nothing. You are only battling yourself there and your own deep mind for what you have already decided. If you are truly interested to learn more about Truth and the truth behind faith and God, give me a call 678-832-3871 jonathan. I would love for you to come to my church, listen to what is preached and feel the Spirit of God. I have given the offer before for anyone to come and see what I am talking about and prove me wrong. Good luck with your search and I pray that God would speak to your heart.
Second- The whole religion as a crowd control or the bible as such, it makes absolutely no sense. " No one but God could have authored the Bible, for good beings would not falsely claim divine inspiration, and evil beings would not teach such high morality." New Life study guide.
If anyone is interested in searching for the Lord, seeking Truth, or just wants to talk about faith. I reach out to anyone, my invitation is for all and my number is the same.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
Makes no sense?! Is it really inconceivable that people might lie because they thought it would be an effective way to convince people to behave better?
It is inconcievable only if you have taken time to study the Bible. As I said before, good men would not have claimed divine inspiration and evil men would not have written to maintain such high moral standards. The Bible was written over many centuries and penned by many different authors yet it flows as if it was done by one person in one lifetime ( Jesus is the author and it was done in His own timeline). If it were a tool used for crowed control then it would have been full of corruption, as we have seen time and time again that power WILL corrupt any man. Also, Christianity is the fulfillment of the Jewish beliefs. The Jews are a very strict people that live by a code, they wrote the first half of the bible and in fact even the New Testament. The New testament was written by the apostles who were in fact Jews themselves. My point being this, if it were simply for crowd control then the Jews would have never written the New testament because they would have held onto tradition and their laws. If you want to look at men who try to use scare tacticts and control a population then look at communism. If religion and the Bible were created for such a thing then why would communist nations fight the belief in Christianity?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
So in your opinion, men are either pure good or pure evil and there is no in between? They never do good things for the wrong reasons or bad things with good intentions? And, groups of people can never believe they are performing God's will when they are not?
Also, crowd control = corruption? I don't understand your argument for this at all. So if a school has an honor code, it must be full of corruption because they are trying to tell students how to behave?
Why single out communism? Every system of government has rules and laws that are intended to control people's behaviors. Why do you think you get to write off your mortgage interest on your taxes. It isn't because God wants you to own a house, it's because the goverment wants people to buy homes. All laws are crowd control, pure and simple. Whether those laws come from a divine book, from a dictator, or from an elected body doesn't change that fact.
I'm a full Bible-believing Christian, but I cannot agree with this statement. The Bible was written in a variety of different styles, some historical, some metaphorical, and for a variety of different audiences. I believe that every word was divinely inspired, but the truths contained are complex and take a lifetime to understand (if possible at all).
For someone who doesn't believe, using bible verses to validate a point has no impact whatsoever. No disrespect, it's just like stating "faith is the only way to be aware of god because the bible says so". I've heard literally hundreds of people try to persuade me with their "because the bible says so" arguments. I was hoping for other POV's here. I have received several, and I thank those guys for that!
As far as your second point, sorry man but that's just bogus. COUNTLESS evil men have used a supreme state to fuel their evil endeavors. Though not necessarily to be labeled evil, I'm fairly certain that you won't defend various middle eastern terrorists who are driven by their own book of god. Your statement about good beings and evil beings only plays out if peoples' intentions are black and white. Human beings are made of vast gray areas. Many "good" men have preached the bible, swearing by it's word, only to have their true intentions exposed at a later time. It is EXTREMELY easy to believe (and make sense of) that people would use the tales and teachings of Christianity to promote personal, or establishment based motives.
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All good points here. I was thinking much of this, but couldn't find the words. Thanks, man.
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msanch24- I think you missed my point a little bit. I said there is no scientific hard evidence to prove God, thats why it is called faith. I simply told you what the Bible ( what i base my faith on ) says about faith and how it comes about. I also invited you to call me and even attend church with me to see what Truth is according to the Bible.
For the second point I made- You all have made true statements, but in order to find truth and to obtain wisdom then all truths must be observed and considered. You can tell a tree by the fruits it bears. Evil men, whether trying to use " good" things, always flip the script i.e. Hitler, Stalin, ect....and I never said that crowd control=corruption. I said that power does and that the Bible could not be made up for crowd control because it claims divine inspiration which good men would not claim and contains and teaches high morality which evil men would not do. Read the contents of the Bible and what TRUE Christianity is supposed to be. Its sad but what we see in the mainstream Christian church is not what the bible preaches. And yes laws and such are needed, the provide structure and are the building blocks for civilization. But, the world has lost its sense of morality and values so why then has the Bible, unlike every other corrupt tool for control, stood for so long? For thousands of years the scriptures have stood, they have been validated, and have not changed with the times nor what the current generations state of morality is. Why is that? Because the Bible is the Living Gods' Word. It will forever stand and even when heaven and earth pass it will stand. Once you start to actually search with an open heart and mind you will see that there is more than just "words on a page". It speaks to you and your situation, it motivates you and will change your life.
nerdsrock22- I agree with what you are saying and it is true. But what you have to realize is that those underlying messages were for a church and a people of a certain time an that God was speaking to them. For one to start, build, and live by faith one only has to read the words for there literal meaning. What I meant by it flowing is that for a book that was written by many authors and over a long period of time it never contradicts itself. You would think that with time an different hands it would.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
I didn't necessarily miss your point. I just can't see trying to explain to a nonbeliever how faith works using the bible. I've read the bible, studied the bible, and understand faith. I'm interested in your own words, not the words I've heard hundreds of times. Ya dig?
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I appreciate how you worded that.
1. Prejudge people.
2. Do not give others a second chance. Condemn them upon meeting if they don't share your beliefs.
3. Do what you can/have to to get people you don't like out of your life and every aspect of your life.
From my understanding, this is the main course of being a "True" Christian.
Validated? Who did the validating? Did an expert in handwriting come in and verify that God himself wrote the Bible? Was it validated that God had a stenographer? No one has proven that the Bible is God's word.
So does Anthony Robbins. Is he God? It really sucks (but it is part of you being a Christian) that you always revert back to people having closed hearts when they don't believe your faith. Ever stop to think that maybe people DO have an open heart and that's why they choose NOT to believe?
Which reminds me of number four ion the list:
4. Talk down on people as if you're on a higher plane than they. Or better than them.
Later, QD.
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couldn't have said it better myself.
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Ok you didn't say they were equivalent, just 100% positively correlated.
This is the part I disagree with. I think "good" men could falsely claim divine inspiration.
Stereotype but well known within our churches.
Like all things, you have those who understand truth and those who understand what they want to understand. For example, the simple truth that opening your car's intake and exhaust air volume will add a bit more ponies to your car rather than putting on an exhaust tip. Or a huge wing to keep the down-force on the rear of your car rather than just to look cool. There are always those who understand the true purpose of things versus those who only understand what they want to... the bad part is that they tend to be the majority (or loudest) which makes it bad for everyone else.
Not really validation but writings and culture at the time follow accurately the books of the Bible. More philosophical evidence rather than empirical... just all depends on what you want to count and discount as evidence enough.
You're absolutely right.
Exactly. I know not all Christians are that way, but the ones I've come into personal contact with lived high on the hog with that mentality. And for that, I distrust all of them.
Being that there is NOT ONE shred of real evidence that God even exists, it has to be much harder to prove that He wrote the Book or that the Book is even of His words.
Thank you. Later, QD.
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Well the interesting dynamic of the scientific discussion is all the things that science has to ignore because of lack of evidence. There are tons of things that exist that people cannot provide physical proof or some sort of scientific evidence of. Do you love any one? Do you think logically? Do you ever plan your next day? Intuition...ever speak to someone who has deja vu? Science doesn't give you any reason to believe that these things exist beyond some chemical reaction in your body, but inside, the majority of us will admit that these are real things. So if we are to discredit all things that do not present a burden of proof towards their existence, then we are in trouble and we need to get rid of every school and every form of education, because even our desire to learn, our presupposed ability to logic, do not exist in science if we only use the physical evidence to determine reality.
A group of hundreds of men and women who would have witnessed the life of Christ and his resurrection being tested by threatening their lives, yet whatever they witnessed, was real enough for them to lives in fear, and only to be put to death by men who would call them to renounce what it was that they witnessed. This is one logical reason to believe that something serious went down.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
Not sure if you are a Bio major or not, but I was and I don't think we got evolution right.
Depending on the numerous schools of thought, most believe evolution is either a guided act of selection to pass and carry on traits through DNA.
My issue is that evolution has some very large gaps in its foundations. I remember Richard Dawkins (Biology professor at Oxford and Neo Atheist) discussing evolution with John Lennox (Mathmetician and Theologian at Oxford)
He presented a case for a guided evolution which was not random (in his mind). To him evolution is a guided process on which we went from simple cells to complex cells. We went for billions of years to become what we are today.
Well the problem comes in with DNA. In the same sense, some professors credit DNA as the computing factor that drives evolution and development. Under this idea, the process of evolution is guided by the most complex code known to man. So evolutionists have seriously faulted in my mind when they have chosen to discuss the cellular model, but they leave out the method by which the majority of evolutionary biologists claim the process is guided. Scientists cannot explain DNA at its origins through evolutionary theories. This is the foundation that the entire argument must be supported on.
Also, if you haven't seen Ben Steins documentary "Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed" you should watch it. I experienced some of these things as and undergrad and my brother in law is experiencing them now. The interesting dynamic is how people who ask for scientific reasoning oftentimes don't realize that the scientific community is EXACTLY like the religious community. There is a status quo that effects a high majority of the fundamental beliefs, and to step outside of the status quo means you will be labeled and cast out...Try asking your professor to bring in a person who can really articulate alternative scientific oppositions to evolution and see what there response is.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Academic...8AC93998A58A61
I mention all of this (seems a bit off topic) but it is mainly to make a statement that the battle between faith in God and Science is a myth. I think it is poison that is being taught to us as if it is the end all truth and there are tons of people out there propagating this crap.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
I'm not sure if you are trying to confuse me or not, but this reply doesn't make any sense. Three out of the four "examples" you just gave aren't even material items. Love, thought and intuition? Even if that made sense, you'd then have to discredit your belief in God. I mean since religion is a faith-based idea and faith is an intangible object much like love, thought and intuition, and you say that the latter three might not exist because of lack of scientific evidence, then you should toss faith right out the window as well.
As far as planning my days? Sure, that can be proven without a doubt. Most people have a calendar that they write their appointments or other plans on. I have one.
You do realize that we're talking about proving actual things or beings and not emotions and the mind? Two completely different things.
Or one logical reason that people were pretty gullible back then. In those days, they were obviously less people on Earth. There were less means of communication. There were more things that people didn't know about. It stands to reason that if something happened on Earth and the people did not have the capability or know-how to study it, then they would come to their conclusions.
You had the lady out in Conyers who reported seeing the Virgin Mary in a tree. She was able to convince thousands of people this. She made a shitload of money off that. Just shows you how gullible humans are. Later, QD.
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Logically how do you believe in your soul? Scientist will argue that there isn't one because it cannot be proven?
Just reading some of your posts I see some issues in your logic. I see where you actually mention things that you should not believe in if you are looking for hard evidence. How can we quantify the statement "your internal soul that was obtained through evolution"? This is where biology and spirituality collide at a brutal truth. The physical and the spiritual are real to all of us, whether we want to admit this or not, we ALL function off of our physical AND our spiritual being. Our physical being does not ache over loss until our spiritual being has given it the means by which we could experience those things. Love and hate and all that encompasses these things exist on the spiritual level and manifest themselves through our physical body. Very similar to how you would not doubt the existence of your soul, I would not doubt the existence of God.
For the Christian, God has demonstrated his existence and his power by showing that he has authority on both of those plans. Through Christ, we are given accounts of the physical by his healing, walking on water, resurrections, and the cross connection by seeing him command the spiritual while still being in his physical. Through the spirit we see the opposite relation and position of God. We see the spiritual commanding the physical. You asked what initiates belief? Belief NEVER starts with the physical. It can be influenced by the physical, but it doesn't start there. Belief is gained and it is a process over time. My belief in God and my faith in Christ as a redeemer rests on this process and those things that have proceeded my coming into faith in him.
I hope that makes sense. But I would apply it the same method by which you believe in your soul. I just also believe that these physical and the non begin with the non or even a third type of existence and culminate to what we are discovering or rediscovering as a creation of God.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
Actually that is my point. There are things out there that we would say exist that cannot be proven by a scientific method. If we can agree that these things exist, yet are not physical and cannot be manifested in a physical way, then we are one step closer to understanding that there are such thing as "immaterial" things that exist not necessarily in a physical scientifically testable realm.
And if we want to take the step towards understanding that the immaterial does exist, and that these immaterial things are not going to be Sci method type things then we also have to understand that when we question these things we have to remember that they will be understood as immaterial things. This will change our questions entirely.
So instead of : "Is God real, prove it?" you get "validate your belief in God"
instead of: "Scientifically prove your love for your family" its "How do you validate or how can you manifest love to your family?"
basically saying you would not use algebra to try to understand shakespeare. And you would not use Hamlet to solve calculus. These are two different types of understandings that require two different types of fact finding methods. I hope that is clearer...
In these threads we are always seeing people ask questions that are about taking one plane of understanding to "prove" the other, when "proof" is a loaded word, and one plane is metaphysical and cannot be tested by the physical methods of the other. This is a HUGE logical fallacy that plagues these types of discussions. Using apples to describe define bananas.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
I understand your point. Knowing that God was NOT an actual person, but was/is some sort of spirit, we move to the next step in the proofs that a lot of people seek. It is said that the Bible is God's word. There we go. We have an actual thing, in our hands, that we can touch and hold. We don't have to prove the Bible's existence. Again, the closest anyone will ever come to knowing if it is really God's word is only by believing it is His word. This will never be proven. The events that take place in the Bible aren't provable. It can't be proven that Jesus died and was resurrected. All these are just stories to be told. Later, QD.
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Actually I am
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that is what I am saying...sort of.
We cannot go back in time to see events, but just like we can read recent history and cross check some of the facts with other references we have the ability to determine that some things given in our historical documents are reasonably accurate. Take the revolutionary war, take the crusades, wwI and II, historical conquests etc. these things can be read and we can always find documents that are written to support or discredit those things that are historically inaccurate.
When I read the accounts as written in the Bible, study other pieces of historical documents and bring in simple reason, I find that there is a very very convincing case to support Christ as having performed miracles, being resurrected, and ascending with many witnesses. And with all of the surreal stories surrounding Christ, you would expect to see tons of documents from that period discrediting these events if they were not in fact understood to have happened like we see them written. Even today, when a news report is written that is remotely inaccurate, there are a dozen reports following that serve the purpose of shedding light on inaccuracies. For such an incredible story surrounding Christ and at least three resurrections (A child, Lazarus, and Christ), you would imagine that someone would have immediately gone whistle blower if these things were not true or complete fabrications. Especially since being a follower of Christ was very unpopular amongst the traditional Jewish community.
There are tons more things like this, but this is just a glimpse into my reasoning.
"Their [the new atheists] treatment of the religious viewpoint is pathetic to the point of non-being. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing... I am indignant at the poor quality of the argumentation in Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and all of the others in that group."
~Michael Ruse, atheist & author and philosopher of biology at Florida State University
full article
well i have to step in again, the bible can be validated because its claims have come to pass. Look even at the prophecies of the Messiah, they were written thousands of years before Jesus yet He fulfilled each and every one of them. And before you say that you cant prove Jesus was real based only on writings of the time or documents; prove to me then that Ghengis Khan was real, prove to me that Julius Caesar was real or even George Washington. You readily believe these men were real because there is historical writings of them and paintings even. Guess what, the same goes for Jesus Christ, yet when it comes to Him we dismiss the evidence but easily accept that of other historical figures. I say a closed heart becuase the bible says thats what it is. We have come to an age that the bible calls the end times, " 1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was." 2 timothy 3:1-9. The world will soon change, even those without faith can sense it, that something big is getting ready to happen. The bible tells of this too. Soon the whole world shall see the false christ rise up and those who had hard hearts and chose to dismiss Jesus will worship him until the Lord comes down from heaven and all shall see Him and all shall bow down and confess that He is Lord. Go ahead, tell me that using scriptures doesnt count or matter, i say the same for those that quote studies or writings of atheistic scholars. My faith is built and based on the bible. I see all this discussion going back and forth and many of you arguing against faith yet not one person has accepted my challenge. Come to my church, listen to a bible believing, doctrine preaching man of God, feel the Holy Spirit move and pull at your heart, listen as the Lord speaks to your heart and then tell me you don't believe in God. I have witnessed many non believers break at an alter when God moved.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
I wouldnt argue that jesus wasn't real. I would however argue that jesus did not turn water into wine, or walk on water, or any of that.
And honestly man, I've been taught Christianity from day one from many different people with different perspectives, and it has only made me less of a believer. I tend to think logically based on proven evidence, rather than believe everything that is fed to me through preaching and the bible. No offense, but I just dont believe in a church that preaches. To me, churches ought to be nothing more than tight communities of people who have a relationship with god. this is important since every believers relationship with god is different, and should never be led in any other direction than that. Churches dont need preachers. Plain and simple.
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Lolol. I can set a bush on fire and say, "LOOK!!! The burning bush!" That makes the Bible real.
First off, who said anything about Jesus not being real? No one. It's his "feats" that are completely unbelievable.
As far as the historical figures? George Washington might not be a real person? Did you mean to type another person's name? You can't compare a general in a war or an ex-President (something that can easily be believed) with someone who supposedly walked on water or rose from the dead or any of the other "talents" he is written to have had. That's apples vs. RWD Hondas. Later, QD.
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Msanch24: I can see your point, but one can not believe based on mans opinion or teachings. We as believers are supposed to plant and water the seed. Its God that gives the increase. The Holy Spirit is what draws men and fills them and builds faith. You seem like a man that if shown God or if u had an encounter with diety that you would believe. I like your responses and reasoning, it shows a thirst and hunger. I offer you a chance to come experience what I have. I wont cinvince you of anything, simply take you to see God at work and feel His Spirit call to you. I offer aomething abnormal to this world. If you truly are seeking answers, I offer you a meeting with Jesus. Afterwards you can decide on your own. Do you accept?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
Honestly? No. I am severely confident that you can't show me anything I haven't already been shown. And I also don't think it is man's task to "water the seed". By word of mouth, the word is planted, but only through faith should the seed grow. I don't have the faith, plain and simple.
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What do you have to lose? And your last sentence re confirms what I said about God giving the increase. It sounds to me like you have no faith cuz men failed you, im sorry.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
Not to sound rude, but how you're talking now is the very reason why i want nothing to do with christianity, church, or anything of the sort. Faith is not communicated through man. Even the atheist knows that.
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I dont see how but I will pray for you. maybe you might change your mind
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
Lolol @ ignoring a reasonable response. I guess it's because you're too good and above me to respond. Later, QD.
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No thats not it at all qd. I just dont ser the point of arguing a point when no one would yake up my challenge. It shows me that it would not matter what evidences are given, God could come down and show Himself to you, your closed up to any possiblity of Him being real
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
Get out of this thread man. Religion is not a "challenge". It's not like we're fighting you, saying "betcha five bucks you cant convert me". Why do i have to keep educating you on the subject, while you carry yourself to be some all knowing christian? This was a thread for discussion, not for "saving" people. you stated how you feel, you offered (some) light on certain situations. Now, we don't want to go get preached out by the very institutions that cause us to question. I fail to see where we are being "closed up". Just get out of here.
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You're an idiot, man. You don't get it at all, dude. According to you, everything you say is true and nothing else is. It's your way or the highway, you know?
You should:
Later, QD.
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Yes your hearts are hardened and blinded. You ignore any possibility that God is real cuz a lack of scientific evidencr. Who are you that God would have to prove Himself? Lack of evidence, hypocritical christians, peoples opinions is a cause for you to not have faith and you mock them and call it all ridiculous? Tell that to the thousands of christians around the world being persecuted, losing life, liberty, possesion and all they hold dear. Tell them their belief is primitive and you just cant find a good reason to have faith. God came in flesh 2000 years ago as Jesus to be shamed and die on a cross for humanity, that we might be free from sin, corruption, death and destruction. He died for you that you should live and have a personal felationship with Him. And you cant find a logical reason for faith? In order to have faith you must open your eyes and heart to the unknown and unseen. At the end of the day believe it or not, He is still God.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
You're completely missing the point, man. This thread just isn't for you. Please, just don't come in here anymore.
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And who are you to tell me who I am? You haven't read one bit of this thread, man. You're just blindly posting to up your post count. You need to lose this "I'm a Christian, so I'm right" attitude. That why your kind gets the shitty rep it has.
Exactly. Until you can actually read what's being posted, please refrain from posting in this thread. Later, QD.
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