What do you guys think about this Kimber super carry pro? It hasnt been shipped to dealers yet, so I havent had a chance to hold it or find any reviews yet, but it sure it purty!
NEW Kimber Opinions
What do you guys think about this Kimber super carry pro? It hasnt been shipped to dealers yet, so I havent had a chance to hold it or find any reviews yet, but it sure it purty!
The Real E
It looks like a show peice not a shooter but its purdy. No a big fan of the MIMbers but its purdy to lookat!
Only two men ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. Defend your rights or lose them forever.
The 4" barrel, bobtail and aluminum frame is really what is attracting me to this 1911
The Real E
Hmm.. This sounds like my next build I am doing. I think you will be happy with any 1911 chassis. I am a huge fan of the champion/commander platform. Its has provided me with great shooting pleasure. Buy the gun. Shoot the shit out of it. If it lets you down already be prepared with what parts you would like to upgrade her with. Here are a couple of threads and good reads on MIM and other 1911 parts. Any part can break on a 1911. Some break quicker or easier than others. Its like using stamped parts in a high performace engine over billet or forged parts. One is bound to break sooner than later. The major problem areas I noticed from my previous Kimber guns were the following: Extractor, Sear, and poor barrel bushing fit. I noticed that on two of the kimbers I owned that were bushingless had started to see premature wear around the barrel lugs as if the barrel wasnt fit properly from the factory. Once again. All guns regardless of platform are going to break eventually. I have preached from my experience hundreds of times. Shooting something is better than shooting nothing. You dont have to have a $1100 kimber or springer or a $3k custom EGW gun to shoot. Most people today due to the economy cannot afford to go out and buy super expensive guns. It forces people to have no money left over to shoot there expensive gun or get trainging. More often than not people who own expensive factory guns claim they are not as fun to shoot or in some cases not as accurate when in reality they only shot 150-200rds of ammo through there expensive gun. Sell it. But a cheaper platform such as a glock and have money leftover for a holster or two and 1000rds of fun. They become more comfortable with shooting there glock the way all tools are meant to be shot and have 5 times as much practice to become proficent and accurate. More often than not you will see me loan pistols to first time shooters forthe mear cost of replacement high wear parts. I dont shoot as much as I used to that is for sure. I would rather see someone else get into the sport with little costs than dump a bunch of money into it and get burnt out because they have no funds for weekend plinking.Originally Posted by dvlerin41
You can go to a nice local range. Rent one gun a weekend for a month. Find out what suites you and your needs for weekend fun/everyday carry/etc.. Do your research to find a good deal. Find out what parts from others experience are items of concern. DO NOT REPLACE PARTS OUT OF THE BOX UNLESS YOU HAVE TESTED THEM YOURSELVES. You might not can tell the difference between a match disconnector and a MIM one. Probably close to 9 out of 10 people I have met at the range dont even know what kind of gun there shooting other than the description on the outside of the box. Most of the folks on this website are car enthusiasts. Are you going to go up to carrol shelby and tell him you know more about the shelby mustang than him? Do your research, ask the known professionals for advice, and go out and have fun. The sport is not cut out for everyone.
CLOSE RANT.
http://forum.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=1119608
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i...hp/t-3725.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_molding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Injection_Molding
Only two men ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. Defend your rights or lose them forever.
kinda what I was thinking, looks like a nice show piece but is it realistic to carry everyday? Whats the big story on MIM parts on kimbers, is it that big of an issue to avoid like the plague? You (truegiant) and Danny seem to have a lot of expeirence with 1911's, would I be better off going with a different brand 1911 then Kimber? Reviews with Kimbers seem to be up and down like crazy! Some ppl love them and a lot of ppl hate them!
The Real E
kimbers seem to work just fine for the majority of shooters. Remember the majority of shooters dont shoot much and when they do its 50-100 rounds at the static range, then it gets detail stripped and cleaned. Kimbers seem to have mixed reviews. I had a custom II, and it broke down at the end of day one of a 3 day class. We were able to get her running just fine, but it really turned me off to them. Not to mention my instructor hoped on the phone with Bob Rodgers (one of the top 1911 smiths in the country) and they made it clear this wasnt the first time and kimbers were the turds of the the 1911 industry. the bottom of the disconector was so roughly machined that it was catching on the sear spring. Not cool.
Alot of people seem to be pretty darn happy with them, especially those pro carrys. and MIM parts is just a fact of life in anything under 1800+ dollars. But there is a difference between good MIM and bad MIM. Most bad MIM parts will break pretty quickly from what i hear, giving you a good idea of what (if anything) needs to be addressed.
Whats that pro carry going to sell for 1100 probably, maybe more since they have some fancy new machine work all over it?
Oh and the bobtail looks pretty good, nice big compound radius, pretty unique. The bordered front strap looks like hell imo. Machine work on the slide looks pretty cool.
i see no reason this couldnt be a great carry gun.
"The 1911 is a collection of subsystems that must work together. Each part must be prepared and fit properly not only in and of itself, but also with regard to the other parts with which it must operate for the gun to function and appear as desired."
Oh and I like the pattern of those grips on that pistol you pictured but they are huge and thick. Wasnt expecting that. Kimber usually likes to stay on the thinner profile side with there stock grips.
Only two men ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. Defend your rights or lose them forever.
Sorry guys, but I just don't have the same experience with Kimbers yall have at all.
I've shot thousands of rounds through mine without a single malfunction nor break down. Mine is the external extractor kind too. Never a misfeed. Never a stove top. Never a FTE.
As for MIM parts, to be honest, it's really a moot point IMO. I see it as something miniscule that Kimber haters hold on to as an excuse. I know that Kimbers have had actual failures, but so has every other manufacturer at one point or another. Matter of fact EVERY 1911 out there, bar custom ones/Sigs/Ruger, have some MIM parts in them. Springfields have MIM parts, Colts have MIM parts, even semi-custom guns have MIM parts in them (Wilson for example).
Instead of worrying about MIM parts, the real question should be: Are YOU going to run 10,000 rounds through the weapon you choose or not? If you are, then MAYBE MIM parts may matter. 99% of people don't run 10k rounds through their guns, so therefore they may very likely NEVER experience any of the MIM part breakage that are gossiped about all over the internet. Do failures happen? Of course. But if MIM parts are good enough for high performance engine blocks and high tolerance parts in thousands of other applications, then it's sure good enough for a handgun IMO.
I currently own and have owned Colts, Kimbers, Sigs, Taurus, Rugers, Brownings, Remingtons, S&W's, and Walthers. ALL have MIM parts, except the Sigs and Rugers. I've not experienced any major failures that would scare me, except out Hi-Points and Lorcins and most of those I accredit to ammo sensitivity (which is still not acceptable IMO). I think the big Kimber haterism comes from bad QC in a $1000 gun. I actually agree with that. If you are paying that kind of money, you expect a certain level of finish. I get it. But IMO if you buy a $500 base gun only to turn around and CHANGE out almost the entire thing to have the same things that a Kimber has out of the box......there's a reason for that IMO too.
Anyway, I like my guns due to functionality and looks. If I like it, I buy it and use it. I'm not an elitist that thinks if I don't have it, it's automatically no good. Many people, especially in the 1911 realm, are very elitist like. I absolutely do not like long slide basic MIL spec looking 1911's and some people swear by them. I don't see the functionality of a lot of things people googoo and gaga over, but they do. To each their own I say.
My long .02
BTW, the gun pictured in this thread is pretty cool looking IMO. Some things aren't my cup of tea, but overall it looks pretty good to me. Question is how much are they going to ask for it when it does come out.
I will give my .02 on each line/question/statement
- I have owned kimbers and had no problems as well. I have worked on alot of kimbers that were not as lucky. Its like they have 20 guys on there 1911 build line and 10 build shitty guns and 10 build ok guns.
- MIM parts IMO are not a mute point. Not all MIM parts are made to the same tolerances and definately dont come from the same quality control. When I can see the MIM casting marks on the gun parts and they are extremely rough and when you apply a dab of dyken blue on them and can visually see they make contact with parts they shouldnt IMO that is SHIT. Dont claim your $1k gun is the best on the market when in fact most people who own 1911's (from my experience at the range and through working on several of them) Kimber owners are bandwagon owners. Most of them feel there 1911 is the most elite pistol out there. Kimber has and still does make some nice shooters, but IMO dont make the best they are made out to be.
- I dont think round count has anything to do with my weapon purchasing decision. Most folks (once again my experience) hop onto the 1911 bandwagon because of there bulletproof reliability and because they look pretty. Even 1 FTF/FTE problem could be the one that takes your life. Out of the box unless you purchase one of the big name guys pistols I dont feel you get that kind of reliability with any gun. Any gun I buy should last 10,000rds with no problems.
- I completely agree with the horrible QC and customer service. I have had several people have problems with there CS. I personally had them loose a firearm of mine for almost 2 months and the whole time I got the "we are still working on it" response. I got it back and they had put a new magazine in it and that is all i could find. I sent it back 2 weeks later. Anytime your producing mass amounts of any kind of part your bound and determined to get duds. Roger.. Got it.. however I dont think you should have as many duds with your "custom 1911's" as they are advertised.
- Building a hand fit custom parted 1911 is not cheap. I can attest to that as I have built several myself. But I can promise you my custom $1k pistol will shoot better and be more reliable and have way better internals than your $1k kimber. Plus I will be able to flaunt it as a hand built gun with the goodies I want in it. I enjoy working on handguns and that is why i am biased to building project guns.
- One item we havent touched on yet. Kimber frames and there casting/machine marks. IMO they have some of the sharpest most uncomfortable feeling pistols out there besides there more expensive ones. THey utilize plastic mainspring housings in alot of there guns which IMO is asking for trouble.
- Another topic that I sort of already touched on. MOST kimber owners buy the gun, 2 boxes of ammo, and some custom grips and after they have shot the ammo they originally bought never shoot the gun again. It ends up in a drawer and just because it shot 100rds with no problems who is to say its reliable. I mean if you test drive a car for 100miles does that mean its perfect? Shit I am not trying to say that kimber makes shit guns. I am just saying that from my experience most kimbers I have played with didnt run right. There guns felt like you were shooting them with 100wt motor oil as they cycled slow and sluggish. Were not incredibly accurate out of the box and for the price IMO didnt offer all they were cracked up to be. Now on the other hand I think Kimber does make some of the nicest looking off the shelf 1911's out there. Some of there finishes and checkering patterns they use are sexy. I mean when the raptor first came out i almost nuted. When the SIS package came out i was uber extactic. But like I mentioned before. I can build a custom gun with the quality parts I want, have a great time doing it, and say I did it myself.
End of two cents.
Only two men ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. Defend your rights or lose them forever.
What other brand of guns have you had to "work" on too? That is my point. Why is it that most Kimber haters just loathe Kimbers, usually because of "MIM" parts, yet the odds are they too are carrying around a weapon that has "MIM" parts in it too. What makes the MIM parts in their "favorite" weapon on their hip any better than any other MIM part, i.e. in a Kimber?
I still stand by the MIM comment above. 99% of the haters out there don't care to admit that even their own weapon they swear is sooo much better has the exact same MIM parts in them they so loathe on a Kimber. That's why I find it ironic. Even some well know "custom" weapons have MIM parts in them. Why not hate on those too? They didn't make MIM parts only to cut costs. They used and make MIM parts because often times it is the only efficient and affordable way to machine very high precision parts w/o turning a $1k into a $2k gun. How many people are out there that are willing to or even know why to spend $2k on a weapon? Precision parts don't normally fit in the same sentence as crappy anything.- MIM parts IMO are not a mute point. Not all MIM parts are made to the same tolerances and definately dont come from the same quality control. When I can see the MIM casting marks on the gun parts and they are extremely rough and when you apply a dab of dyken blue on them and can visually see they make contact with parts they shouldnt IMO that is SHIT. Dont claim your $1k gun is the best on the market when in fact most people who own 1911's (from my experience at the range and through working on several of them) Kimber owners are bandwagon owners. Most of them feel there 1911 is the most elite pistol out there. Kimber has and still does make some nice shooters, but IMO dont make the best they are made out to be.
As for the bandwagon comment....I could say the same thing about Diehard Springfield fans or Diehard Colt fans or Diehard S&W fans. Right or wrong? Most of the time people get on their elitist platforms just because of something they may have in their pocket at the time. Next week, they're on to something "bigger and better". It seems to me that if you have to gut a weapon to replace it with parts you hand pick and it ends up looking, working, and shooting just like another for the first 10,000 rounds then that begs the question of......why? That's like buying a Honda, gutting it down to a shell, and then putting in a Chevrolet drivetrain.....why not buy a Chevy to begin with? You buy a bare bones tank green entry level $400 1911 fully knowing that you will break it down to put in a commander hammer, skeleton trigger, extended beaver tail, polished ramp, checkering the grip, beveled mag well, and maybe change out a spring or two? At the end of the day, you don't have to fire 10,000 rounds out EVERY gun you have to consider it "good". Trust me, if anyone shoots more than 10,000 rounds on a semi-consistent basis out of ANY weapon.....they will likely be proficient enough to defend themselves with most any other weapon.
Ummm, isn't that contradicting a little bit?- I dont think round count has anything to do with my weapon purchasing decision. Most folks (once again my experience) hop onto the 1911 bandwagon because of there bulletproof reliability and because they look pretty. Even 1 FTF/FTE problem could be the one that takes your life. Out of the box unless you purchase one of the big name guys pistols I dont feel you get that kind of reliability with any gun. Any gun I buy should last 10,000rds with no problems.
Oh, I know it's not cheap. I've "raced" a few of my own too. But I'd like to know how your gun is going to shoot better than mine? When I pull my trigger it goes "BOOM", when you pull yours it goes "BOOM". How's yours better? You mean more accurate? Reliability so far on mine has been flawless, just like my experience with my Model 70 Colt Combat Commander and my Taurus 99F and my DPMS AR. I've never had a single issue out of any of them so far. Some I've owned for more than 10 yrs so far. So how is your weapon any more reliable than that? I can and do wear any of them on my hip w/o ever remotely worrying that when I pull that trigger fireworks won't commence.- Building a hand fit custom parted 1911 is not cheap. I can attest to that as I have built several myself. But I can promise you my custom $1k pistol will shoot better and be more reliable and have way better internals than your $1k kimber. Plus I will be able to flaunt it as a hand built gun with the goodies I want in it. I enjoy working on handguns and that is why i am biased to building project guns.
I agree that yours has "better" internal parts, and I understand the reasoning behind it. I actually like that. That's the reason we all mod our cars after all, right? Because we love 99% of the car, but want that 1% we tinker with to make it that much better for us. I get it. Hell, I do it to both my cars and weapons. I actually don't have many "stock" weapons myself. I just don't see why people have to hate on Kimbers so much. I mean, at it's core, don't all 1911 basically LOOK and FEEL the same to begin with? So unless the weapon is just a total paper weight worthless POS thats gonna get you killed because its a gigantic POS like some other notorious throw-a-way models, what's really the problem?
See, I can live with this. This is a good form of personal opinion, and very true. I did notice the same thing when I first tore down mine.- One item we havent touched on yet. Kimber frames and there casting/machine marks. IMO they have some of the sharpest most uncomfortable feeling pistols out there besides there more expensive ones. THey utilize plastic mainspring housings in alot of there guns which IMO is asking for trouble.
Again, this is something that is perfectly acceptable. I totally agree. Most people shoot a couple of boxes of shells every other year and think they're some John Wayne/Billy the Kid. But what can you do.- Another topic that I sort of already touched on. MOST kimber owners buy the gun, 2 boxes of ammo, and some custom grips and after they have shot the ammo they originally bought never shoot the gun again. It ends up in a drawer and just because it shot 100rds with no problems who is to say its reliable. I mean if you test drive a car for 100miles does that mean its perfect? Shit I am not trying to say that kimber makes shit guns. I am just saying that from my experience most kimbers I have played with didnt run right. There guns felt like you were shooting them with 100wt motor oil as they cycled slow and sluggish. Were not incredibly accurate out of the box and for the price IMO didnt offer all they were cracked up to be. Now on the other hand I think Kimber does make some of the nicest looking off the shelf 1911's out there. Some of there finishes and checkering patterns they use are sexy. I mean when the raptor first came out i almost nuted. When the SIS package came out i was uber extactic. But like I mentioned before. I can build a custom gun with the quality parts I want, have a great time doing it, and say I did it myself.
I actually think that out of the box, for me since I got the compact carry version, accuracy was very acceptable. Yes, I've got a couple others that are actually much more accurate, but they're also not a 3" barrel either.
All MIM is not created equal. Interesting machining/finishing, SCHWARTZ safety, and MIM (agreed... not a good reason most the time) are the main reasons kimbers dont get the nod by some well known smiths. To approach it as if all MIM parts from all manufactures are created the same way, with the same QC (biggest issue in MIM) is not a valid argument.
Hell i dont even have an argument here, i just dont want us to approach this as if there is some MIM god that manages specs and QC for all the MIM parts out there lol
Again not really a fair comparison. Colt and Springfield manufacture some of the best frames and slides in the industry, thats why some of the most expensive cusotm 1911s are built on them. So when you see a 6000 dollar 1911 built on springfield frame and slide, we would be fools to compare that to a honda with an engine swap and coilovers.Next week, they're on to something "bigger and better". It seems to me that if you have to gut a weapon to replace it with parts you hand pick and it ends up looking, working, and shooting just like another for the first 10,000 rounds then that begs the question of......why? That's like buying a Honda, gutting it down to a shell, and then putting in a Chevrolet drivetrain.....why not buy a Chevy to begin with?
Not up for debate. A real shooter can switch from custom 1911 to an off the shelf glock and be equally effective in combat conditions.Trust me, if anyone shoots more than 10,000 rounds on a semi-consistent basis out of ANY weapon.....they will likely be proficient enough to defend themselves with most any other weapon.
Now we could debate that volume of rounds fired down range causes someone to be deadly effective. I would say rounds fired and skill is correlated, but not causal in many cases.
Lots more than "boom" when considering a weapon. But your right, at the core of it all: all we need is "boom" and rounds on target. But again, not a good argument against custom pistols.When I pull my trigger it goes "BOOM", when you pull yours it goes "BOOM". How's yours better?
I would agree alot of the hate is unjust. Them not being s70 is big enough for me not to like them. that and my customII looked like a 5th grader assembled it.I just don't see why people have to hate on Kimbers so much. I mean, at it's core, don't all 1911 basically LOOK and FEEL the same to begin with? So unless the weapon is just a total paper weight worthless POS thats gonna get you killed because its a gigantic POS like some other notorious throw-a-way models, what's really the problem?
At its core, yes they look and feel the same. But from a high use perspective, absolutely NOT.
Custom grade 1911s vs production pistols is kinda of like arguing why you would spend thousands of dollars on a mechanical watch. Its a argument that you cant win if the other person doesn't share the same appreciation.
Last edited by Danny; 04-06-2010 at 07:30 PM.
"The 1911 is a collection of subsystems that must work together. Each part must be prepared and fit properly not only in and of itself, but also with regard to the other parts with which it must operate for the gun to function and appear as desired."
MSRP: 1530$
Found Online: 1223$ with free shipping
The Real E
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