What is Evil? And does evil exist?

[StreetHazard]

Noooo! don't go! you can't go!

You two unwittingly have filled my life with glee and joy if only for a brief moment!

please stay!

[geoff]

1) Your " church " has fallen victim to the bible buffet syndrome my friend. Read matthew 16:13-17 aswell for the complete meaning. The revelation that Jesus is the Christ prophesied of in the old testament is what the church was built on, as psalm 118:22 states " The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner." The Jews', Gods' own chosen people rejected their Messiah. Christ is the head, not Peter. Christ is the author and Peter was just a pen, a tool used to accomplish Gods' will. And their is no power given to ANY man on earth, it is ONLY by the name of Jesus that these things take place. "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." mark 16:17-18

2) There is no one right church, either you follow the teachings of Christ and follow the biblical means of obtaining salvation or you don't. The " church " Jesus is coming back for is the body of Christ. Simple, every other institution will perish.

3) Nowhere does it say in scripture that a personal relationship is what is needed for salvation? Not once you say? This.."Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." phillipians 2:12-16

4) You have to seperate the church from the sin in it? Um no, deacons, bishops, ect...are to live and lead by example. When the catholic church hides and denies aligations of sexual misconduct in their order then they are guilty aswell. CORRUPT and brings shame to the name of Jesus. The catholic church has become the laughing stock of the world, they used to be respected but now that they got all the filth out in the light, you see what false doctrine leads to.

5)Im sorry but the Apostles are rolling in their graves as you type, your spitting poison out my friend that you have been coaxed into believing. The ONLY True doctrine revealed by Christ lies in the New Testament, not some teaching by a catholic pope. You pray to the saints to intercede to the Lamb in heaven? This.."For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1timothy 2:5

6) Scripture says to have the elders to lay hands on you and pray over you, not pray for you. Heretic worship? My friend, I pray that the Holy Ghost would fill you and reveal truth to you and not some man. Is the pope filled with the Holy Spirit? Did once in the bible, Jesus tell the apostles to forgive sins? Did they even do it? NO, NO, and NO. They were instructed to teach the gospel, if the people repented of their sins and prayed GOD would forgive them then the apostles were to baptize believers in the name of Jesus ( not Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ), and then God would seal them with the promise of the Holy Ghost. That is the ONLY truth contained in the bible.

To those of you viewing this thread. I am not bashing this guy's beliefs. It is simply and plainly false doctrine. Jesus said well when He told the disciples,
"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." and " And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." matthew 24:5&11
There is only ONE TRUTH, ONE FAITH, ONE LORD.... Jesus Christ, God of the old and new testament, Creator, Author and finisher of our faith, Alpha and Omega, the only truth and the way.

[Aethir X]

Ok, you haven't even listened to one word I said, and if you had, you would realize the grave error that you are in. I have read all of your arguments before, and the saints and doctors of the church have dealt with them by Protestants for 500 years, so it is nothing new to us. You are contradicting yourself, and you are working against the law of non-contradiction, and you fail to see it when it is staring you blindly in the face.

1) I never said Christ wasn't the head of the Church, I said Peter was Christ's representative, his visible head of the church on earth, not the church triumphant, there is a difference. And yes, there is power given, "I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, whatsoever thou shalt bind...etc." You can't convince me otherwise, it is obvious you do not understand Matthew 16, otherwise you would not be saying these contradictory things, Christ gave them the power to bind and loose, it is so clear it is amazing to me you would say otherwise. Quoting Matthew at the end of your first paragraph goes against nothing I said, nor contradicts the Catholic faith, all priests speak only with the authority given to them by Jesus Christ and their apostolic succession, no good priest would claim otherwise. So your first argument is now rendered void.

2) Like I have said before, you are ignoring my previous arguments. There is only one true faith, and it is not based on an individuals personal interpretation of what Christianity or the Bible says. No where in the bible does it say that the bible is the sole authority of Christianity, this is the second time I have said this. You have yet again failed to realize that the Catholic Church put the canon of scripture together, which I have mentioned three times before but you have chosen to ignore every time I have said it, which really shows me that you do not want to hear the truth about your false Protestant sect because it means you would have to take up your cross. Since St. Paul tells us in 2 Thess 2:14 "Hold fast to the traditions which you were taught, either by word of mouth or by letter." What traditions is St. Paul telling us to hold to? Obviously there is sacred traditions which were taught since scripture would not even be codified until 400 years after St. Paul wrote this. The traditions are the priesthood, the sacraments, the liturgy, and other teachings which are not mentioned in scripture, any other interpretation is false. You cannot look at scripture in a vacuum geoff.

3) Yeah, work out your salvation with fear and trembling, that's right, but that doesn't say anywhere reject the traditions handed down to you from the apostles does it? Nope. Neither does it say all you have to do is read the bible and you'll go to heaven does it? Nope. And it doesn't say that just talking to Jesus in prayer is good enough either, you have to do what the church commands because your salvation depends on it, and scripture is just one part of the sacredness of the faith, it is not the whole faith.

4)Um yes, you do. A priest being a pedophile in private has absolutely zero to do with the teachings of the church, the Church has always and will always teach that pedophilia is wrong, but unfortunately we have some bad men in the church, just like in every religion. The teachings are pure, the men in it are not, if you expect every man in the Catholic Church to be perfect then you do not understand Christianity at all. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, just like you quoted. Doctrine is eternal, men are subject to change, but Christ promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against the church, meaning, its doctrine will always be preserved from error even those its members may be sinners. Is that hard for you to understand?

5) That's right, one mediator between God and Man, Jesus Christ, who we are all members of. You don't think the saints in heaven are members of the Body of Christ? They are in heaven, they are baptized, they are members of the body of Christ, therefore the can mediate because they are supernaturally a part of Jesus Christ. That is simple theology. The true doctrine of Christ lies not only in scripture, but also in tradition just as scripture affirms. The Catholic Church put scripture together, what did the church do for 400 years before the Bible? Obviously it existed with the traditions and letters written to the churches which different bishops and priests founded. History affirms this so many times it is unbelievable to me that you deny it, see, this is why I do not understand Protestants, it is about picking and choosing what is to be believed instead of embracing everything in its proper context, history, tradition, scripture, it all points to one place, the Catholic Church, any other view is from Satan.

6) Actually Christ did tell the apostles to forgive sins: John 21 "He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." Yeah, there Our Lord said it, so Yes, Yes, and Yes. He gave them the authority. If Christ did not want them to forgive sins by hearing confessions he would never have done this. So what you said in paragraph six about that being the only truth in the Bible is absurd, why do you keep placing the Bible above history and tradition, they must work together in order to understand the context of the true faith. Sola Scriptura is a dead and evil belief, why do you cling to it?

No one in the Catholic Church who is sane would ever call themselves Christ, to do so would be the height of blasphemy. You're right many false prophets shall arise, claiming that the Bible is the only authority of Christianity, which you are doing, and which scripture itself speaks against.

One Faith, that's right, not 35,000+ different Protestant sects, not to mention those sitting in their houses trying to interpret scripture for themselves because they are "non-denominational," all claiming to hold the truth when they cannot historically or traditionally trace their lineage or documents back to the first apostles as the Catholic faith has done for thousands of years with the sacraments, priesthood and authority given to it by Christ.

[Aethir X]

Hoc est enim corpus meum. Hic est enim calix sanguinis mei.

[StreetHazard]

You two make me el oh fucking el! yep

Baptists vs. Catholics....wow! I had almost given up on this forum.

[geoff]

I will not put down or denounce your faith, it is not scriptual nor right. But to each his own. i would still like to talk to you over the phone. 678-832-3871

[StreetHazard]

I will not put down or denounce your faith, it is not scriptual nor right. But to each his own. i would still like to talk to you over the phone. 678-832-3871

then let me cut in....

While you are gloriously esposing the "truth" of the catholic faith, and attempting to defend the actions of only a few rogue pedofiles and a policy of your holy temple covering up their actions so as not to bring shame upon your pristine house of god. We also have their history of repression and violence to contend with that doesn't at all walk hand in hand with your sacred St. Paul or St. Peter. They have gathered so much wealth through acts of terrorism to supplant these said "Protestant Churches" that are 35,000+ and growing every day in the U.S., which all that division is not what God intended, God is one. One Lord, One Faith" would make the churches pocketbook and political power base feel that much more empty indeed wouldn't it? And all out warfare on other faiths. The atrocities committed by the catholic church against humanity are legendary.

Catholicism may be the most destructive out of all of the christian faiths, but at this point it would almost be like splitting hairs.

[Aethir X]

LOL wow, you think Catholicism is destructive you obviously have never read a history book that doesn't have a bias against us. Catholicism built Europe and western civilization. Without it everyone would still be worshiping the trees.

I'm not really sure what "oppression" you are referring to, the Church only wishes to repress errors, evils, and poverty anything else that is done in the name of the Church is not truly the Church acting. I think you fail to realize that the Catholic Church has always and will always be the most charitable organization on earth and has done more for poverty, children, the infirm, uneducated and building civilization for people than any other religion in the history of mankind, so to say we oppress people is disgusting to me, Christ does not teach oppression, he teaches charity, so to say that the Church teaches oppression or oppresses people is insulting.

Gathered wealth through acts of terrorism? I'm not really sure what you mean by that, but I assume you are referring to Cortez or the Crusades, both of which have been painted as horribly evil by the liberal media and adding so called "facts" which are not even true. Spain's conquest of the Americas is not the Church by the way, you have to differentiate. And the Crusades were meant to take back the territories that the Muslims stole from the Christians, so we were defending our rightful land.

We don't need wealth to supplant Protestantism, it will destroy itself because of it's inherent contradiction, it is not of God, therefore it is doomed to failure.

I'm really having trouble understanding what atrocities you are referring to, the church has never taught the oppression of people, if anything the church has destroyed oppression, the Protestants were the one's who murdered Catholics in Europe not the other way around. The Protestants were the ones who murdered Catholics for practicing the faith in Maryland. The Catholic Church's teachings are separate from the individual sinful men who happen to be a part of it, this distinction is critical. So if we are going to start talking about the sins of others, which is pointless, we need to clarify that the Catholic Church's teachings are something separate from the men who claim to be Catholic and speak in the name of the church, when often they actually do not speak in her name.

The only destruction that is caused is caused by the sins of men, which are separate from the teachings of the church, so instead of pointing fingers at all the sins of certain men, why don't you look at the glory of the saints and the great deeds of charity they have done by living the true gospel.

[Aethir X]

I'm gonna go ahead and walk away from this thread, I believe I have sufficiently answered all the questions with clarity.

Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum!

[geoff]

Just did s brief search on the history of the Catholic church....so many meetings to get their doctrine and story straight...I do not support the idea of false organized religion. I really dont believe in a denomination, but the apostolic church, which follows to the " T " the apostolic movement in the 1st century and teaches holiness living and the bible as the infallible word of God is the one i choose to call myself by. we are followers of our Lord and Christ.

[StreetHazard]

lulz!

[sport_122]

Evil is the deprivation of a due good. That is the purest definition, thousands of years old, tried and true. Basically a metaphysical good that should be there which is not, because of the ability and potentiality in the will to choose a lesser good over the higher good, which in turn evil is achieved. But evil has no substance per se, it is not a thing, it has no essence, meaning THAT it is or WHAT it is, it is not something I can touch or pick up or see, it is always a deprivation in an act that should be a higher good. I can touch the dagger which stabs the man who is committing murder, but the dagger itself is not evil, nor is the body of the man evil, but it is the act itself of the man which is deprived of respecting another's life which is the root of the evil, hence the deprivation of him respecting that man's right to live.

The Cartesian understanding of evil, Kant, Hume, Locke, Descartes, is all very new, this whole idea that if I believe something is true, it is true, if I believe it is evil, it is evil, cogito ergo sum if you will. This is an entirely false view of reality. It goes against the law of non-contradiction. The law of non-contradiction is that something cannot both be and not be in the same repsect and in the same manner at the same time in its essence. 2+2 cannot ever equal 3 or 5 the same time it equals 4, if you say it does, you are giving 2 a different value than what it is in its essence, in its very being, the grouping of one and one, if you say it is something else you are living a false reality of warped reasoning. Same goes with let's say a red rose, the rose is always red, but if you say it's black that doesn't mean it's black, it is just that you have labeled it as such and tried to apply your own false perception of the essence of the thing to its essence, when in reality its essence is in the thing itself and cannot change, so even though you call it black, it will always be red. This is the problem with people who say whatever they believe is true is true, that is never the case unless their belief is TRULY in line with the truth. And you cannot know the truth unless you embrace the truth, which is an entire discussion on its own.

Most people don't know these simple philosophical arguments because they have never studied scholastic philosophy or ancient philosophy which is based on knowledge through the senses and metaphysical immaterial realities dealing with the forms, essences, phantasms, goodness, being, oneness, true and their correlations which each other. The "enlightenment" philosophers failed to make these fundamental principles apparent, which is why their systems are so thoroughly entrenched in our society, it caters to the ego instead of what is really the truth in reality.

I hope this helps some people understand just a little why most people's view of reality is wrong. This whole dichotomy of moral relativism all started with the Protestant revolt and the Enlightenment philosophers. I am a traditional Catholic, and have studied master's level philosophy and theology in seminaries, monasteries and universities across the U.S., and I don't need to use scripture to prove what evil is, which is kinda cool, it is not the job of scripture to tell us what evil is per se, although it does, but it is philosophy which is best in order to understand it in a reasonable debate.

I am so happy that you wrote this. I mostly agree with you.

I do think as believers our world view on this has to go back to God. We walk a fine line if we try to define evil apart from good and we open the door for the relativism. Nowhere else, except through the accounts written in scripture do we get a definitive understanding of all parts our nature. We don't get the truths like proverbs, denouncing our most righteous acts or Christ stating that there is none who is good save for one. These are very important grounds to be laid in the definition as they put everything in our current world into perspective as we can understand evil ONLY in light of God who is good. I would say this is what is demonstrated in the Eden account. Only in the presence and under the law of God were men able to understand evil.

Also, moral relativism was big before the Reformation. I can't give Luther that much credit because all he did was set the stage for a greater understanding of grace as taught in scripture. In fact the reformation was started by people who wanted to remove the hierarchical relativism and simply say "hey, we are ALL evil and must have grace in order to commune with God". I would argue that the reason you didn't see more of it was that the church was so dominant. The evidence is in how quickly the reformation took hold demonstrates something that was there under the surface for a long time. The Pope ran the show and nobody would want to threaten his authority because you could be excommunicated and this had drastic results in most agrarian societies. It was a living death sentence (case in point, Luther).

The greek and roman pantheon was a demonstration of this relativism. A god who would punish you for this act, and another god who would encourage you toward this act, therefore in some societies god A was more popular than god B. Its dichotomy is even demonstrated in the bible from the first century. In studying the relationships between Paul and Peter and the orthodox Jewish Christians and the gentile Christians this was one of the issues they had. The orthodox jewish christians wanted the gentiles to conform to their traditions yet the Pauline churches did not need to and this caused some strife. The jewish tradition was completely different from what would form itself into the Catholic church (by catholic, i mean christian). So even in that since, we still have the same separation today. This is all budding from the difference in morality between the Jews and the Gentiles who would both become followers in Christ.

Now I would have to agree that the age of Enlightenment did increase the inward focus on good vs evil, only aiding in turning ridiculous people into even more ridiculous people. but I think we could look at this as a compiled theory structure and see that its mostly the same thing that happens on this forum. The people who said something that seemed popular at the time, became the foundation for the next generations of thought, no matter how wrong they were. And much like the scientific, religious, and government communities of our world today, changing from the popular thought is met with much grief. It is much simpler for people to just jump on the bandwagon.

[sport_122]

Just did s brief search on the history of the Catholic church....so many meetings to get their doctrine and story straight...I do not support the idea of false organized religion. I really dont believe in a denomination, but the apostolic church, which follows to the " T " the apostolic movement in the 1st century and teaches holiness living and the bible as the infallible word of God is the one i choose to call myself by. we are followers of our Lord and Christ.

sorry geoff.

No organization administered by men does it right. Not my church, not yours. Not the doctrines in the Catholic sect or the protestant sects. One thing I do believe is that based on our theologies, our lives, and the way we understand God, we all have it wrong in someway. Yes I think some are closer, but nobody's got it right. The men who walked with Christ didn't get it right while they were with Christ. That's the point of grace. I believe that is the only way we have to function. To know that we are broken, and that we need grace, not just for the bad that we do, but for the good that we think we do as well.

[geoff]

I know that no one is righteous and that are righteousness is like filthy rags. But as far as living holiness ( in the world not of it ) and teaching the scriptures as the true infallible word of God, and following it the best we can, and knowing that we are saved by grace and that Christ is the only truth, the way, and the life. That was my point. By the way, I thank my Lord for dying on the cross for me 2000 years ago, if not for Him I would be lost. We are all saved by His blood and mercy.

[JDM onlyy]

And the Crusades were meant to take back the territories that the Muslims stole from the Christians, so we were defending our rightful land.

Isn't it like everyone's Holy Land? I was just curious because everyone seems to want it so bad because its their sacred land right? Why is one religion more entitled to it than the other? Didn't your mothers ever teach you to share?

[JDM onlyy]

I know that no one is righteous and that are righteousness is like filthy rags. But as far as living holiness ( in the world not of it ) and teaching the scriptures as the true infallible word of God, and following it the best we can, and knowing that we are saved by grace and that Christ is the only truth, the way, and the life. That was my point. By the way, I thank my Lord for dying on the cross for me 2000 years ago, if not for Him I would be lost. We are all saved by His blood and mercy.

I don't know why, but every time you post, it makes me want to worship the devil.... And I'm really against that!!!!

[StreetHazard]

I don't know why, but every time you post, it makes me want to worship the devil.... And I'm really against that!!!!

Nothing says "fuck you" more than throwing up the horned fingers over your head and praising the funky goat.

I would never try to talk you out it.

[JDM onlyy]

Nothing says "fuck you" more than throwing up the horned fingers over your head and praising the funky goat.

I would never try to talk you out it.

LOL at calling Satan a funky goat! But seriously, whenever Geoff posts, it just makes me dislike Christianity a LOT, and I don't wanna do that....

[geoff]

and why is that?

[Mchnhead2k5]

. By the way, I thank my Lord for dying on the cross for me 2000 years ago, if not for Him I would be lost. .

Sooo Christ died when he was 9?

[JDM onlyy]

and why is that?

Its just that my way or the you're going to hell way thing you got going with your religion. And just because you spend hours upon hours reading the bible doesn't mean your an expert on it, you interpret it any way you want just like someone else could interpret it the way they want.

Oh and every scripture seems to be your favorite scripture....

[geoff]

Honestly i read it with a literal meaning. The bible says that God is not the author of confusion, so His word would not be confusing to read either. I never once said anyone is going to hell, I am not God so I can not judge anyone bro, nor do i try to. I do study the bible ALOT lol, I love every scripture. I have had some pretty cool experiences while reading that I could share with you if you like. God even spoke to me about witnessing on here, kinda slapped me in the face. I don't try to interpret the bible, it is already very clear on what it says, before I read I pray God open my mind and give me understanding and He does.

[trini_gsr]

wow i can't believe i missed this thread. LOL yeah it was definitely a breath of fresh air up in here. this is the 1st time i've ever heard/read anything from a knowledgeable catholic! i agree with a lot of aethir's initial comments, especially about the nature of evil. hit it right on the head IMO. and you're right, it does help a lot to have a firm understanding of philosophy and historical context when contemplating this subject.

but aethir, your education on this matter is really subjective. your comment about "ppl would be still worshipping trees" gave it away LOL...that was cute, but all i will say to that is, there's a WHOLE lot more to spirituality than even catholic tradition speaks to. it's kind of like your example with Augustine and the hole filled with water. there's a cultural component to that analogy that it seems you are totally overlooking...

[Kevykev]

Evil is demonstrated daily, therefore, It certainly exists.


Just answering the question.

[StreetHazard]

Evil is demonstrated daily, therefore, It certainly exists.


Just answering the question.

Thank you to whoever brought me this baby, it is going to make a wonderful gavel for my next prayer meeting.


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[EJ25RUN]

Evil is ignorance and hatred toward others.

[ueyedgr8tness]

^ evil being manifested is some 1 without GOD because evil is the oppisite of love and the bible says GOD IS LOVE so to clear alot of stuff up from 2-3 different threads.people ask me" how can u believe in some 1 u don't see?" I say i do see him because when you become a christian he lives within u.I see GOD through u because of your deeds u do in the body.alot of ppl claim to be a son of GOD but fell at repentance because they crucify him every day by going against his word.I think even not a religous person u can come to a agreement that a true christian that lives by the bible is some 1 u look up to because there full of love even if there done wrong and no evil can be found in them.Now take into perspective if every 1 in the world was like that.world would have no problems what so ever and then we would all be in the mind of GOD and we would be (PERFECT) Now imagine a world like that NOW that is what heaven is going to be like.bible does say let this mind be in u tat was also in christ jesus and jesus was perfect loving every 1 and doing nothing but good so that means if we put on that mind we
could be perfect through GOD and evil would not be present.




ON the real that was alot of sunday morning rant but i liked it.But for some 1 that is confused with my no grammer. spelling,etc here is a baby break down.

GOD=love,peace,hope,prosperity,happiness
Devil+evil,hate,anger and crimes and other stuff that goes with being without GOD which we see alot of in the world today


Don't blast me because of my beliefs if you don't like it just tell me a reason why without going all crazy on what i posted no need to get all out of hand because i got love for every 1 here i think...(Looks around)

[StreetHazard]

^ evil being manifested is some 1 without GOD because evil is the oppisite of love and the bible says GOD IS LOVE so to clear alot of stuff up from 2-3 different threads.people ask me" how can u believe in some 1 u don't see?" I say i do see him because when you become a christian he lives within u.I see GOD through u because of your deeds u do in the body.alot of ppl claim to be a son of GOD but fell at repentance because they crucify him every day by going against his word.I think even not a religous person u can come to a agreement that a true christian that lives by the bible is some 1 u look up to because there full of love even if there done wrong and no evil can be found in them.Now take into perspective if every 1 in the world was like that.world would have no problems what so ever and then we would all be in the mind of GOD and we would be (PERFECT) Now imagine a world like that NOW that is what heaven is going to be like.bible does say let this mind be in u tat was also in christ jesus and jesus was perfect loving every 1 and doing nothing but good so that means if we put on that mind we
could be perfect through GOD and evil would not be present.




ON the real that was alot of sunday morning rant but i liked it.But for some 1 that is confused with my no grammer. spelling,etc here is a baby break down.

GOD=love,peace,hope,prosperity,happiness
Devil+evil,hate,anger and crimes and other stuff that goes with being without GOD which we see alot of in the world today


Don't blast me because of my beliefs if you don't like it just tell me a reason why without going all crazy on what i posted no need to get all out of hand because i got love for every 1 here i think...(Looks around)

At least you acknowledge your lack of grammer so I can't bust your balls too bad about it. But it did seriously almost make me get a splitting headache from having to read, then re read what you posted to try to figure out what the hell you are talking about.

This is one of the biggest problems I have with Christians right here

GOD=love,peace,hope,prosperity,happiness : Devil+evil,hate,anger and crimes and other stuff that goes with being without GOD which we see alot of in the world today

This concept of faith based morality is what gets you Theocratic governments like we have in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan and in lesser extremes, most nations included within western society as well, including America. Manifesting itself most recently in the form of blatant discrimination of homosexuality and inequality of civil rights against gay people, ironically around the same exact time America progressivly elected it's first Black president. The European Union is facing the threat of Islam, not necessarily by suicide bombers....but by something possibly far more dangerous.

It comes under the guise of "religious freedom" and rallies against "islamophobia" and going so far as to say if you do not agree with their beliefs, then you could call yourself a racist! But it takes the form of "Honor Killings" of women, censorship and threats of violence against anything satiring or nay-saying their cherished beliefs like cartoons and even South Park. Complaining when the Muslim women dressed as fucking bee-keepers with ski-masks on get turned away at banks and government facilities because it covers up their identities as some kind of attack on their shitty, backwards, barbaric culture. And forcing to apply Islamic Sharia Law to inheritance, marriage and divorce laws to the countries that they just so happen to reside in. And complaining so loudly of the economic laws of those European countries they live in that Great Britain has relaxed their laws for the pacification of the mewling Islamic masses and opened a "Islamic Bank of Britain", and have parliamentary leaders that are such fucking pussies and are so scared to be labeled a "racist" or an "islamophobe" that they are allowing this foreign barbaric culture change the face of every ideal that has brought western culture into the forefront of our global consciousness as something to respect, if not to strive for....NOT something to be ashamed of.

Faith based morality is a problem of understanding, semantics, and evident falsehoods. It is an ideology, a system of belief based on childish certainties, and infantile hopes and unrealistic dreams. It removes the notion that you are in complete control of your future and replaces this sentiment with morally and intellectually indefensible notions of codependency, and other created needs and impose these notions of this fake morality under a guise of "religious freedom"....but only freedom for those that believe and follow the same ideology. For myself it is the crushing weight of a dogmatic society of ignorance, sophistry, and violence that I want to have NO part of, but is forced upon me by societies that demand non-believers become one of the herd, and have convinced themselves....by force if necessary.

Only sheep need a shepherd, life is much more liberating when you are freed from the shackles of religious dogma.

[ueyedgr8tness]

^ ok #1 I am not 1 of thoes ppl who said this way or no way.I simple base my information on how i grew up living and trusting in GODS word.I don't personally care about muslim culture are any of the other religion u speak about because it has nothing to do about what i believe,and i believe GOD is love and every person that i see that has them in side of which is few.Therer is something about them the way they walk,talk and live there day to day life.Love is not blowing up stuff and trying to force some book or religion down some 1 throat.As in for faith EVERY 1 has faith trust me they do.for an example if you knew u would not wake up in the morning u probley would never go to sleep.Its faith that u believe that u will wake up so u do go to sleep and wake up.



I no we have our differences about religion but once again u put me in the stock with all the other ppl that force stuff on ppl.I am not that 1 i simply speak how i believe and if you choose or not choose the path thats ur life u do what u will.But i will tell u this and u no for a fact i am right...



If the world lived by just the 10 commandments out of the BIBLE this place would be a much better place and u no that is a fact that no 1 religous or not can argue.And if you don't believe in GOD then u tell me how we got here.And i do mean without bringing up all the story that science has to offer because there all myths not true facts.But me as a human i find it hard to believe that the earth could produce humans and then the earth 1 day just decides ahhh... screw it they don't need anymore they have enough.A lung,rib,heart,throat,liver etc can not be formed by "earth" and science no that but yet they would rather spend ur tax dollars so that they can feed u a line of junk to make u not want to no the true reason u where created.

OH! and the unrealistic dreams thing is not true.I no that from personal exp

[StreetHazard]

I choose not to differentiate the various sects of worshipers of the desert deity Yahweh as their ideals and monotheistic dogma so closely mimic each other, especially in the theophostic septic tank at the bottom of it.

Jerusalem......For the sake of these arguments I use the term "Abrahamic religion" so as to not leave anyone out, and are historically the world's three primary monotheistic faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam which share common origin and values. Your faith is inexorably tied to these other faiths through the patriarch "Abraham".

I am not going to pick apart your posts, as i have grown tired of trying to read and understand them or engage those just like you in these very boring viewpoints. But any concept, of any form of faith-based morality has been proven false and dangerous. And has caused some of the worst human-rights violations the world has ever seen....and as I have described above, is still continuing.

whether you like it or not, it has happened and is still going strong under the banner of your precious faith, I don't give a fuck what you personally believe. Maybe you think Jesus is the son of god and now floats around on earth like a benevolent boogyman, or some hybrid god that was combined with man in the body of Jesus, I have heard it all.

The reason why this thread was made here is because religious "faith" usually defines the definition of good and evil for the society and the larger culture. And I am saying religion itself and the adherants of the abrahamic monotheistic concept of (GAWD) and the morality of the deity, fits it's own definition of evil. And the 10 commandments themselves are a mute point when faced up against the suppression, violence and warfare portrayed in the old testament in it's own hypocrisy as an act of god's will. Not to mention only convey a guideline for just simple common sense which obviously their own flock are unable to follow. By faith based morality manifesting in our own "capital punishment laws" (an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth) in direct contradiction to the 6th commandment, while at the same time pro-life evangelicals and born again christians are fighting in our court houses to ban abortion and deny homosexuals basic human civil rights of marriage demonstrates this false virtue called "faith".

These faith based views and concepts of morality should not be forced into our laws. Your christian flock in many ways are just as evil and damaging to the progression of society as their islamic counterparts. I am convinced neither will be happy until the entire human race has been kept from advancing by at least 500 years.

[5speed]

Does the Bible even state that God created angels? I know it states that the angels were in existence before humans as stated in Job. People seem to assume that God created angels. If angels truly do exist, and God created them, then therefore God created Evil on purpose. Lucifer would already have been known to turn against God and push evil things on humans.

If angels really do exist, then God could have possibly existed along with them in the same (not that he was an angel himself), but became more powerful. Thus, angels began to worship him. He then creates humans just bc he felt like it (whether it is for deep reasons or for fun).

Just 2 ways to look at it.

[StreetHazard]

Really? Angels huh?

[geoff]

Its been a while since i have been in here. You can try and throw all the Christians into one category streethazard and say we are all evil and suppressive. You bring up homosexuals, its not natural, if it was then both men and women could reproduce, if it goes against nature than how can it be right? You fight for gay rights but what about the rights of unborn children? "Save the trees, Kill the children!" are those your righteous worldly morals? A world without God is chaos. You hate Jesus, Christians, their values, ect...don't worry friend, you read the book. He is coming back for the " true " believers and those Holy Spirit filled children of His. You wont have to worry about us much longer.

5speed- Just because it doesnt talk about it much doesnt mean it didnt happen. God created angels as messagers for Him. One got ballsy and rebelled. God also created man and knew that man would "sin and die. Is this all His fault? No, He always gives us an out. Jesus died for you, as He was being beaten, spit on, tortured, and drank the cup of your sin and sickness and death, He thought " this is for Tyler, my son, and it is worth it all"

[StreetHazard]

You bring up homosexuals, its not natural, if it was then both men and women could reproduce, if it goes against nature than how can it be right?

I get the impression you don't really know any gay people, or actually included much in any aspect of their lives. They cannot change their sexuality as much as you or I can. They should not be vilified for it.

You fight for gay rights but what about the rights of unborn children? "Save the trees, Kill the children!" are those your righteous worldly morals?

No....I would burn both of them equally, but I would have to decide which one is actually more beneficial and useful to me to choose, and if those were my only options it would be a tough choice. A six week old snot ball of congregated cells in the mothers uterus is not a child. But since you are so fucking altruistic why don't you protest playtex and kleenex then fight for the rights of snot rags and used tampons everywhere since you are so concerned, you should keep all that snot and blood in your prayers.

A world without God is chaos. You hate Jesus, Christians, their values, ect...don't worry friend, you read the book. He is coming back for the " true " believers and those Holy Spirit filled children of His. You wont have to worry about us much longer.

A world without people killing over their illusionary beliefs and fighting on God's behalf is a world in peace. If your god was real he wouldn't need you to fight his battles.

I think if Jesus's spirit was real and came back for his followers, he would be very disappointed in you Geoff. From what I have gathered from your posts you do not represent or echo any of his ideals at all, you might be very surprised where you end up....you might just be holding hands with me into the fiery gates of hell. Your ego and arrogance would be your undoing. But I won't hold my breath for you, like patiently waiting for an alien to abduct me and take me to the planet Arcturus and used for breeding purposes with every beautiful, green, 3 tittied alien they have for a Arcturian/epically awesome human hybrid. But if a "Rapture" did take place and every christian of the world disappeared, at that moment is when you would finally hear a "HALLELUJAH!" out of me.

[geoff]

Ah my friend God already gave you a message. Maybe you forgot the private message I sent to you? As far as gay people go, it is a spirit on them so in a sense no they can't do anything about it accept pray and be delivered. Much like someone addicted to drugs would. You go ahead and call that human life what you want it, just because it is in the beggining stages does not make it any less valuable. Why don't we go ahead and kill off all the senior citizens too since they are not really productive members of society anyway, right? Go ahead and call me what you want, I follow what the Lord taught. I have no hate for no man, but rather the sin and evil that envelops us all, yes even me. I am a humble man trying to shine a light in a lost and dying world, one that needs the message of the gospel so that all may be prepared for Jesus. Keep saying your going to be relieved when He comes back, I'm betting you wont be so easy going about all of this once you see you were wrong. You my friend will be judged on a different level, because you have known the truth and God and chose to deny Him. Good luck to you, and I will continue to pray for you. God bless!

[StreetHazard]

I am a humble man trying to shine a light in a lost and dying world, one that needs the message of the gospel so that all may be prepared for Jesus.

You think far to highly of yourself, you are nothing but another fevered ego polluting our collective imaginations with your bullshit.

that is all...

[geoff]

Humble man does not mean in any sense that I think highly of myself. I am least in the Kingdom to come, but those are the ones that God will use. My friend pollution is of the world, if I am trying to add BS to peoples imaginations, then I invite you to come to church with me. Not that the building itself is anything, but the power of God is at work. Come with me once, experience the Holy Ghost and you will be humbled. I have seen many a man with stronger anti-christian beliefs and hatred than you fall on their faces with tears running down their faces. God spoke to you, the Spirit will convict you and draw you to Him, I dare you. Like always, I will continue to pray for you and God bless you brother.

[StreetHazard]

Humble man does not mean in any sense that I think highly of myself. I am least in the Kingdom to come, but those are the ones that God will use. My friend pollution is of the world, if I am trying to add BS to peoples imaginations, then I invite you to come to church with me. Not that the building itself is anything, but the power of God is at work. Come with me once, experience the Holy Ghost and you will be humbled. I have seen many a man with stronger anti-christian beliefs and hatred than you fall on their faces with tears running down their faces. God spoke to you, the Spirit will convict you and draw you to Him, I dare you. Like always, I will continue to pray for you and God bless you brother.

Even if I wanted to walk with your god and follow the path of Jesus Christ, by the bible itself all of it would be pointless because I have committed eternal sin.

Mark 3:28

"Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

Matthew 12:30

"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

So you see I could devote the rest of my entire life to the teachings of Christ, get re-baptized and have a love for the gospel so as to have committed the entire work to memory and I will still roast in hell for all of eternity......just more proof of the benevolence, grace and unconditional love of your God. So I better get to all that wonderful sinning, because there is lots of it to do.

[geoff]

Wrong, if there is breath there is hope. God is on the mercy seat now. Repent and it could be changed around. You could either enter into the gates of heaven with your sins in front of you, covered by the blood of Christ or behind you to be judged. It is always our choice. That scripture was to show them that said He did His miracles by the power of satan that they could not believe Him but that they were to believe the works. You cant blaspheme the Holy Ghost if you don't know what it is. Once you encounter it and are filled life changes, every doubt and concern and unbelief vanish. God bless

[StreetHazard]

And what would I be repenting?

All of the joy, fulfillment and happiness I have gained through all of my so-called "sinning"?

This concept of feeling guilty for things I should be proud of does not resonate with me. While being proud of this illusionary virtue of faith and false piety in all reality, is something to be ashamed of.