just wondering

[dallasb84]

where did all the millions of jews that were killed by hitler go? heaven or hell?

where did all the millions of iraqis that have been killed in iraq by americans go? heaven or hell?

america is perhaps the biggest christian nation in the world and its safe to say the christians killed all those people and it is interesting to point out that....... the nazi's although predominantly atheist approved the christian faith and fundamentally supported the religion as a political ally.....

so..... my next question is.....


where are all the american going to go? heaven of hell?



ignorance is not an excuse

[dallasb84]

655,000 civilians have been killed...... i stand corrected

[bodhi]

according to the christian faith, the jews all probably went to hell

not because they were big nosed jews, but because they killed white jesus
hitler not only is burning em for the second time in hell, but is prolly also fucking anne frank in the butt as i type...

that muh was a true gangsta

[dallasb84]

according to the christian faith, the jews all probably went to hell

not because they were big nosed jews, but because they killed white jesus
hitler not only is burning em for the second time in hell, but is prolly also fucking anne frank in the butt as i type...

that muh was a true gangsta

holy shit ......you just said that

[StreetHazard]

according to the christian faith, the jews all probably went to hell

not because they were big nosed jews, but because they killed white jesus
hitler not only is burning em for the second time in hell, but is prolly also fucking anne frank in the butt as i type...

that muh was a true gangsta

Lulz!

[n2daizo123]

according to the christian faith, the jews all probably went to hell

not because they were big nosed jews, but because they killed white jesus
hitler not only is burning em for the second time in hell, but is prolly also fucking anne frank in the butt as i type...

that muh was a true gangsta

That is funny.

[ghostrida3]

the jews are not in hell because they killed jesus. the only thing that can damn you to hell is your dying w/ out accepting Christ as your savior. God appointed Jesus to die for us as in all men. He was going to be sacrificed either way so the Jews didnt nessesarily do anything that wasnt supposed to happen anyway. all of the apostles were jews. jesus was a jew. there are jewish believers. there are iraqi beleivers.
and we arent commiting a state sponsored genocide in iraq so you cant compare us to nazis. its funny how america spends billions of dollars to avoid civilian casualties with precision weapons wich is an impossibility in war and every one throws out numbers about the civilians we kill. what about the terrorist attacks which are purposely aimed at civilians? I honestly cannot think of any war fought where the countries involved took as many precautions as we do to avoid killing civilians.
and to answer your main question i dont think war is a sin. thou shall not commit murder is not the same thing as killing someone in a war. The word used in hebrew means killing in more of a covetous sense like if i killed you cause i wanted your wife and had to get you out of the way. Killing in wars, at least biblically is not viewed as a sin. that being said i am not naive enough to think there arent servicemen doing evil things that are against the geneva convention that happens in every war as well. but i dont think it is a government sponsored policy it is just an individual doin what he wants cause he is in a postion where he can.
your whole logic fails. nazis supported christianity so it must be bad. nazis drove volkswagens are those evil?..obviously nazis didnt follow the bible or he wouldnt have been trying to destroy Gods chosen...
ignorance of what is not an excuse?

[stillaneon]

the jews are not in hell because they killed jesus. the only thing that can damn you to hell is your dying w/ out accepting Christ as your savior.

Really

Jews don't believe Jesus was their Savior.

Back to the original Question...

[ghostrida3]

right for the most part but i am saying that there are jews that do believe in Jesus and that being a Jew(the race not the belief) does not automatically damn you to hell.

[5speed]

According to the Bible those people haven't gone anywhere. When you die you die. Your soul forgets all in the past, your name, everything. You basically stay in your grave in are "non-existent" until Judgment Day.

Also, according to the Bible you have a choice to choose God and Christ, or be on the Lucifer's side when you are called upon Judgment. Those who denounce God go to Hell, and those who ask for forgiveness for their sins and choose God inherit the Earth.

As for the Nazi's and Jews who "helped" in the crucifixion of Jesus, they have the same fate. The same rules apply to everyone no matter how evil or good according the Bible.

[geoff]

5speed- Almost got is, you are given the choice while you are alive not dead, the bible says this about it, " as a tree falls, there shall it lie." Your given the choice while you are alive if you will accept Christ, deny your flesh, and take up your cross and follow Him. Or you can choose to deny Christ and please our own desires, but the catch to this is, " If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:" 2 timothy 2:12. The choice to be made is while you have breath.

[ghostrida3]

According to the Bible those people haven't gone anywhere. When you die you die. Your soul forgets all in the past, your name, everything. You basically stay in your grave in are "non-existent" until Judgment Day.

Also, according to the Bible you have a choice to choose God and Christ, or be on the Lucifer's side when you are called upon Judgment. Those who denounce God go to Hell, and those who ask for forgiveness for their sins and choose God inherit the Earth.

As for the Nazi's and Jews who "helped" in the crucifixion of Jesus, they have the same fate. The same rules apply to everyone no matter how evil or good according the Bible.

i agree w/ you for the most part. you dont cease to exist but "sleep" until judgement. an example of this would be when the spiritist bought up samuels dead spirit from the dead for saul. he said why have you disturbed me from my sleep or something to that effect. or the metaphor jesus used w/ the rich man and lazarus.. or in revelations where it talks about the saints that are "asleep". that cease to exist thing is a jehova witness idea that is not in accordance to scripture but you are pretty much right on on everything else.

[5speed]

i agree w/ you for the most part. you dont cease to exist but "sleep" until judgement. an example of this would be when the spiritist bought up samuels dead spirit from the dead for saul. he said why have you disturbed me from my sleep or something to that effect. or the metaphor jesus used w/ the rich man and lazarus.. or in revelations where it talks about the saints that are "asleep". that cease to exist thing is a jehova witness idea that is not in accordance to scripture but you are pretty much right on on everything else.

Umm... isn't this a defiance against God's word??? So you just presented a contradiction in the Bible...hmmm

[ghostrida3]

how is it a contradiction? read your bible, communicating w/ the dead and all witchcraft was against mosaic law. thats why the spiritist didnt want to tell saul she was a spiritist cause she thought she would be killed. once again how is this a contradiction? and just to clarify. telling a story about what someone did is not a contradiction. teaching someone too different things one violating the other is. what you are saying would be like saying the bible contradicted itself because david commit adultery w/ bathsheba which has nothing to do with the bible contradicting itself it is just a story about david commiting a sin..

[5speed]

Leviticus 19:31 "Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God."

I am not sure what version of the Bible that one comes from but that is what I clearly remember. Here is King James Version

"Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

Yet God says it is ok to break this one rule? How many other rules are ok to be broken?

Read it dude, it is there.

[ghostrida3]

ok once again the rule is there, i never said it wasnt but where is the rule that contradicts it? i hope your are not trying to say b/c their is a story about saul commiting this sin that the bible contradicts itself. your logic is wrong. there are millions of stories in the bible about people commiting sins against Gods law does that mean that all of these stories are contradictions of the bible? please reread what i typed before. i dont think you understood it b/c u responded w/ given me a quote from leviticus which is exactly what i said. see above where i said seeking a spiritist was against mosaic law^^^. God never said it was ok. saul sinned, saul turned from God this fact is all throuhout kings and samuel... you cannot find one verse in the bible that says God says its ok to seek spiritist...

[5speed]

“The living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

So they just had a portion of an event done under the sun. LOL

[ghostrida3]

i dont get it? this verse is about the finality of death. Noone is arguing that, how can they have a portion of what is done under the sun if they are dead and out of the race of the living.... if your trying to use this verse to say they cease to exist maybe you should read it in its context along w/ the rest of the scriptures(i am really not sure if this is what you are trying to say or not). This verse is about the futility of life once you die thats it all the things you worried and strived for no longer mean anything your race is done. its like after you hand in a test you cant go study at home, come back and correct your answers. Your prep time was before the test.
maybe these will help explain my point: dan 12:2 and many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt, isaiah 26:19 your dead will live their corpses will rise you who lie in the dust awake and shout for joy., rev 6:10-11 how long will thou refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?.... they were given each a white robe and told they should rest a little while longer. 1cor 15:1 we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
i hope you dont think i am typing anything sarcastically or talking trash, this is actually a cool discussion. just dont want it to come across as that. its hard over the internet to convey tone.

[5speed]

I am stating that the soul has taken apart in an earthly/spiritual event. How does that happen when they may not do so according to that verse. But then in other verses they are. So many things are made misconstrued that way.

Many people look at all of the notations on where people's spirits go when they die differently. Some believe that the dead may remain here stuck until judgment. It is all how someone reads the Bible and interprets it. Therefore everyone could be wrong. Some people like Geoff take it in literal sense, and others in allegory. While I read it in literal sense, none of it makes sense.

I don't think you are being malicious at all dude. I like have this discussions too. It can make our faith stronger. The more I read the Bible in literal sense the less I believe any of it. It a lot of New Testament that seems more like a load of B.S. to me.

[geoff]

just curious tyler what seems like B.S.?

[5speed]

Hmm... a few things but I will touch on one for now. I am not trying to jump to conclusion here after just reading once.

The Four Horsemen in Revelations caught my eye. Saint John the Evangelist has a "vision" or so given to him by God about these Horsemen as signs of the Apocalypse. Each horsemen rides white, red, black, and light greenish horse and symbolize conquest, war, famine, and death.

The rider of the red horse comes bearing a large sword. He comes to the new millennium riding a horse and bearing a sword? I am guessing God didn't let Saint John know that we would have bullet proof vehicles, missiles, nuclear weapons, and many other artillery. There are more than enough good people on earth who would destroy the horsemen without a problem. Sure this person may be able to convince people to do evil things. People like Hitler, Charles Manson, Mussolini, and many other great leaders of history have been able to do so. We are in different times. If those Four Horsemen happen to show up when Hitler was Fuhrer, I am sure as evil as he was, even he would destroy them. He had more than enough power to do what he wanted to do without anyone else giving it to him.

This is me reading the Bible literally. If it was meant to be allegorical or used to set fear, then I am not worried about it.

[ghostrida3]

the four horseman is a vision which has symbolism, kind of like the vision daniel had in the book of daniel w/ the statue, the statue had different parts that " represented" different nations. pretty much every vision or dream in the bible was symbolic and God provides the interpretation, like when the dragon falls from the sky or the mountain w/ little horns, their are so many. i dont think that there will be litteraly a guy riding a horse but that this is a symbolism of what the spirits of the earth are doing.
Honestly i have read and reread thru the bible for the last 10 years and it makes perfect sense. everything even in the old testament hinges around our need for salvation and God thru his son Jesus being the answer to that. pray before you read it and ask God to give you understanding and i gaurantee you He will.. He wants you to know the truth worse than you want to know. sure people come up w/ diff "interpretations" of the bible all the time but only Gods "interpretation" is what matters.

[5speed]

Interpretation is stupid. You don't need it then. We can come up with good and bad all day. Interpretation is open to manipulation. Why even give us a Bible when it can cause more harm than good.

[ghostrida3]

the point is that it is not about good and bad and it is not up for interpretation. Laws and rules in the bible are there for one purpose: to show us how evil we are and that we need God to forgive us and cleanse us... the only reason there all of these diferrent beleifs and iterpretations is because man gets things wrong or wants to manipulate a matter, neither God or the bible are wrong in any way its us. for example: have you ever tried to buy paint from autozone? they ask you for id. why is that? because people take the paint and use it to get high. was it meant for that? no. do the instructions say do that? no. people abuse and misuse everything under the sun including Gods word. The devils job is to cause us to doubt it or misinterpret it as much as he can to prevent our ultimate salvation. Gods salvation is free but the world tells us we have to work for it. God urges us to believe in his Son as he is the only sacrifice for sins but the world tells us believe in whatever you want as long as you treat people ok you will go to paradise when you die.. so someone reads the bible and they go into it w/ these new age beliefs that we as a culture have been brainwashed with and they totally miss the truth. i first really read the bible when i was 20 and there were no contradictions but i was shocked to find some of the stuff in there that i did cause growin up you always get the kid version. people have turned what is real into something religious. like if you go to church every week and pray a certain amount of times a day than your good.. where does this come from. it is nowhere in the bible. it comes from mans idea that he deserves a cookie for doing something he is supposed to do. thats why i say pray about it and approach reading it as if you know nothing.