Question for non believers of christianity

[joecoolfreak]

im sorry but i was under the impression that the jewish torah and the old testament christian bible are identicle no? your Messiah is a saviour my friend He was to be the one to restore israel

You are under a very misguided impression then. If you would like, there are plenty of English Torahs running around and I think you will find about 30 lines into it exactly how much "translational difference" there might be. It isn't even the same book.

The messiah in the Torah is the king that restores the Jewish kingom and brings upon the messianic age. You are going to have a hard time convincing any Jew that Jesus was a messiah, because all of the things that were supposed to happen, didn't. That of course is all explained in the New Testament saying why everything that was written in the Old Testament doesn't apply anymore, but again, why does anyone choose to believe one over the other? Where is the reason for that decision?

[geoff]

alot of bad things have been done in some "gods" name, does that make it right no, does that mean that christianity is evil or my God is evil no, you simply asked me why i chose what religion or whatever that i chose. i have not personally read the torrah but had jewish friends that explained to me their beliefs and thats what im going off of. as far as muslims go, why is it that when a christian goes to israel and the holy land that we are only allowed in certian parts? that we cant step foot on muslim holy ground? why is it that jews arent supposed to marry non jewish people and the same for muslims? in all honesty if your not of their faith then your cast aside no? i dont believe christianity which means to be Christ like does that. i can give you scriptual reference if you want. maybe i shouldnt call myself christian as it is now a man led religion, instead of a name i will just say im a follower of Jesus. He taught me to love everyone of every religion, color, race,ect.....have people taken His word and twisted it to do evil? yes, but that does not reflect what Christ taught

[geoff]

your mistaken aswell then my friend. the new testament does not make the old testament null and void. as a jew you know the rituals and what not that are needed to forgive your sins. im sure you know also the reason that Jesus came, so the jews never believed in Jesus as being a messiah?

[BABY J]

^^ It's not Geoffs fault. The entire thing is fractured from the jump b/c it "allows" for "interpretation" by the individual. Again - MAN'S input on MAN's inspired word of "God". How "right" and concise can it be if a "God" allows individual interpretation of what was said?

* Sir - you were speeding. 56 in a 55 mph zone.
* Yes - but MY interpretation was that 55 was a suggested speed. The place (Church) where I go - we see speed as a suggestion, not as a law. This speed limit was posted here YEARS ago when cars weren't fast - things have changed now so we must change the law to fit the speeds of todays cars. LOL

WTF!!!!!!!???

And THAT is the problem. How can "THE UNFALABLE WORD OF GOD" be subject to Billy and Bob's interpretation. They treat is as it's ala carte - take what I want and what I like to eat and leave the rest.

It's really sad. What true GOD that you know who would allows sects of people to "decide" or "change" what they hell they say? That negates the term "God" in my opinion.

[joecoolfreak]

alot of bad things have been done in some "gods" name, does that make it right no, does that mean that christianity is evil or my God is evil no, you simply asked me why i chose what religion or whatever that i chose. i have not personally read the torrah but had jewish friends that explained to me their beliefs and thats what im going off of. as far as muslims go, why is it that when a christian goes to israel and the holy land that we are only allowed in certian parts? that we cant step foot on muslim holy ground? why is it that jews arent supposed to marry non jewish people and the same for muslims? in all honesty if your not of their faith then your cast aside no? i dont believe christianity which means to be Christ like does that. i can give you scriptual reference if you want. maybe i shouldnt call myself christian as it is now a man led religion, instead of a name i will just say im a follower of Jesus. He taught me to love everyone of every religion, color, race,ect.....have people taken His word and twisted it to do evil? yes, but that does not reflect what Christ taught

So what you really mean is that you never really did any research about any of the other religions. You just kinda go off what people you know tell you or what you have heard. You don't even really follow any organized religion because they are all starting to get it wrong too and instead you learned from Jesus himself and therefore you are just kinda winging as things progress and making them up as you go?

Keep in mind that Jesus didn't have any writings...
All of the scriptures you choose to believe in were written by that "man led religion" and therefore subject to any of the popular beliefs at the time...

Again...not sure if you are doing yourself any justice here ;-)

[joecoolfreak]

your mistaken aswell then my friend. the new testament does not make the old testament null and void. as a jew you know the rituals and what not that are needed to forgive your sins. im sure you know also the reason that Jesus came, so the jews never believed in Jesus as being a messiah?

Absolutely not, Never, 100% sure

If you ask any random Jew, did Jesus even live?
The answer will almost certainly be: Who cares? even if he did, he was just a normal guy. Not only do the jews not believe in Jesus, they don't even care if he existed.

[geoff]

i would rather take this to pms. im not trying to bash your beliefs bro and i dont want others to get me wrong.

[geoff]

you know what i would love to get some more insight on your beliefs. hit me up

[EJ25RUN]

you know what i would love to get some more insight on your beliefs. hit me up

How in the hell are you trying to learn religion on a car forum? Are you not capable of doing it in a classroom? Most colleges offer an unbiased class on religeon but you are way too closed minded to survive such an idea.

Seriously, you know nothing about your own faith and are also the reason many non Christians don't like Christians. You base ideas off of whatever anybody says.



Did you know Jews invented the moon?

I said it and I'm Jewish so it must be true right?

[geoff]

i know nothing about my own faith and go off of what others say? right. apparently you have not read into anything i said. i asked for more insight on the jewish religion because i apparently dont know enough about it or i was wrong about it. simple, when it comes to christianity i know about my faith, you give me one example where i am wrong about my own beliefs and faith.

[geoff]

and by the way, am i not in a religion section on the car forum? i believe this forum also talks about politics, entertainment, ect....

[EJ25RUN]

i know nothing about my own faith and go off of what others say? right. apparently you have not read into anything i said. i asked for more insight on the jewish religion because i apparently dont know enough about it or i was wrong about it. simple, when it comes to christianity i know about my faith, you give me one example where i am wrong about my own beliefs and faith.

I got a better idea. Find a place to learn other cultures and religions without a Christian eye. No one here is gonna waste the day to teach you something. How about you realize science is real and a tool we have to improve ourselves.

Some of us don't need religion and we also don't need you telling us what you think about that? OK?

[Jello!]

im just curious as to why some of you stick so hard to your belief that there is no God. and to those with other religions as to why its so hard to believe in the Fundamental views and beliefs of christianity? please discuss

i grew up being an orthodox catholic pretty much. mainly my mom. i attended sunday school every sunday and went to church every saturday and sometimes fridays. i have choosen to pic to have no "God" per say. my belief is that our "higher power" is the souls of everybody who has died, is living, and is going to live one day.

My mum told me that the bible is full of fabricated storys meant to elaborate a point to help better understanding the teaching/lessons of the testaments and so forth, i guess. I dont believe god is one person and can do things because theres no proof.

religion was built to fulfill the humans needs for discipline and a higher power. i learned about it in psychology class. <<-- well not exactly that, but how we need to believe and conform and obey.

sorry if someone said something similar to this. i didn't want to read the thread before saying this. and sorry if i offended anybody.

[geoff]

ej your right you dont need me telling you about my God or my religion or my beliefs, so why are you still posting on my threads, topics, posts, ect....better off yet why are you even in the religion section? and you yet again failed to answere my question, i asked you to point out where i knew nothing or was wrong about my own faith and beliefs. i have my beliefs and am sharing them, if someone doesnt like it they dont have to listen, but just so you know there are a few on here that have actuall interest in this subject and would care to learn and know more. God bless you

[EJ25RUN]

ej your right you don't need me telling you about my God or my religion or my beliefs, so why are you still posting on my threads, topics, posts, ect....better off yet why are you even in the religion section? and you yet again failed to answere my question, i asked you to point out where i knew nothing or was wrong about my own faith and beliefs. i have my beliefs and am sharing them, if someone doesnt like it they dont have to listen, but just so you know there are a few on here that have actual interest in this subject and would care to learn and know more. God bless you

Posting in these threads to put you in your place.

What you're wrong about is how many times Christians have used religion as a weapon throughout history. How many times they've killed others when they've refused to convert. That's a historic fact. No "magicial voodoo" science as you call it.

Many Christians are no better than extremist Muslims. You're faith isn't perfect and nor is any other. Stop trying to think you're the golden people.

I have nothing against people learning religion. It's when YOU blatantly cross the line and call out others for shit that's a stereotype when what you're representing is no better.

Religion talk should go across in learning values. Not listing shit about other faiths that your idiot friends told you about.

God blesses me everyday. That's why i can think for myself.

I guess math is voodoo to you as well. lol

[geoff]

you obviously have some pent up anger bro. i have said it many many times, christians are no exception to it, many evil things have been done in some gods name or what not. that doesnt mean its the entire religions views. and that also doesnt mean that my God is evil or condones these deeds. men are evil by nature and cruel and selfish.

[Jaimecbr900]

^^ Remember that science is wrong when you wake up to your alarm clock, get dressed, brush your teeth (after Listerine and floss). Get in your car, drive into work w/ all the flashers, brakes and gadgets working, make it to work on time (bc ur speedo lets you know how fast you're going and all) - put in a day of work at your computer, get paid electronically w/out having to "do" anything specific to ensure that happens - swipe your card in the gas pump at BP - order pizza online, get home - and post another reply to this "thread". LOL. Science --- yeah, definitely "wrong". Praise Jesus for allowing all of that.

Flip that coin too Baby J.

Not all alarm clocks show the same time nor more importantly the EXACT time, do they? Even the Atomic Clock has to be "adjusted".....yes, it's every thousand years, but it DOES have to be adjusted. Right or wrong? So MY alarm clock says 9:10 pm right now. What does yours say? Which is right and which is wrong? Most likely both are wrong technically. That's Science at it's core. It too is part perception, part experimentation, and finally part FAITH. Yes, FAITH because at the time it's being preached to us in school(s) we whole heartedly BELIEVE it.

Back in 1987, yes wayyyyyy before some of you were even thought of, when I received my HS diploma with that nifty college prep seal Pluto was a planet. We all were taught that. We all believed that. What are they teaching now? The Periodic Table had barely 100 elements. How many does it have now? Did those elements "evolve" or were they there all along and we were just IGNORANT about it? That, my friend, is Science. The ever "evolving", i.e. changing it's mind about what is and isn't, mantra that some of you hold as gospel....no pun intended. I'll take cue from an old racer T-shirt and say.....Science is nice, but I'd rather be Saved instead.

Think about it. Even IF I'm dead wrong and there is no God as you guys say......what am I hurting or losing for believing otherwise since nothing is going to happen to me when I die besides just laying down and closing my eyes.......right? BUT what am I risking IF I'm right?????

Say what you will about science - everyday they get better - get closer - get more accurate. 2+2 is 4 everywhere. But "God" means something different in every household in the world - LOL. Yeah... my bet is on science.

Unknowningly I have addressed this very thing right above.

[EJ25RUN]

you obviously have some pent up anger bro. i have said it many many times, christians are no exception to it, many evil things have been done in some gods name or what not. that doesnt mean its the entire religions views. and that also doesnt mean that my God is evil or condones these deeds. men are evil by nature and cruel and selfish.

In person im a really nice guy actually. No anger for me. I use sense and reason too much to need it.

Don't take anything i say too personal. Remember, I'm just another guy on an internet forum you like to argue with because my opinions mean something to you for whatever reason.

[ahabion]

actually, no one does any twisting when referring to the bible because there is no need. It contradicts itself in many ways - and, although it has some good to it the truth is that it's still a fictional book created by men who saw potential in it, and possible power to control the human mind

also, what is the difference between believing in a magical being, who sees everything, hears everything, is all powerful and all knowing, and ppl who go to college to create their careers? To make a living off discovering new planets, life, ppl who study the ecosystem, ppl that observe micro organisms, ppl with an open mind who are capable of thinking for a higher purpose -- not just relying on a book to guide them through life and to waste their time praying to someone who'll never respond to your prayers...

is well, a BIG difference...

I would actually interject that the gap is actually one in the same. In fact, would say that there are many who do both day in and day out and still believe both books: the Bible and a Biology textbook. Why? Because you can be both and still be "open minded who are capable of thinking for a higher purpose" as you so eloquently put it. Don't confuse what you think would be two polar opposites when in fact, they are one and the same. (the analogy of a football player being a successful athlete but cannot be a smart, straight A student... a single person is capable of being both, irregardless of the "accepted" stereotype)

[ahabion]

Just cause we (Humans) haven't found other planets "with what we call life", doesn't mean that it isn't out there. Now what happens in the future if we find that other race or species and they know only of science evolution and not of religion? Are we (as a world that mostly a religion-based society) going to force our views and beliefs on them (as we did with indians and so on)? What if this world doesn't know of this "higher power" - would that mean that God doesn't exist or would the religious leaders just say that these people are in denial?

Hrm... I was actually talking about this with a few friends but let me throw a curve ball your direction. What if (big what if) aliens came to Earth and they believed in God and actually had a Bible? How would that throw off evolutionist theory?

[ahabion]

i grew up being an orthodox catholic pretty much. mainly my mom. i attended sunday school every sunday and went to church every saturday and sometimes fridays. i have choosen to pic to have no "God" per say. my belief is that our "higher power" is the souls of everybody who has died, is living, and is going to live one day.

My mum told me that the bible is full of fabricated storys meant to elaborate a point to help better understanding the teaching/lessons of the testaments and so forth, i guess. I dont believe god is one person and can do things because theres no proof.

religion was built to fulfill the humans needs for discipline and a higher power. i learned about it in psychology class. <<-- well not exactly that, but how we need to believe and conform and obey.

sorry if someone said something similar to this. i didn't want to read the thread before saying this. and sorry if i offended anybody.

Shame on "mum" forcing this stuff down your throat while you're little and shame on your Psychology professor for propagating these thoughts and illusions in your head. I mean... really... you should have a say in your life instead of it being forced down to you like that... that darn religious theor... ugh... um... You should have a choice in how you live instead of um... well.. you know... you should have a choice... to... you know... um... to choose to... live... (sarcasm)

All kidding aside, you choose how you live your life. Be it by a book, a Bible, or by someone else's creed or beliefs. Your indecision is already a decision made by you. In other words, you can live with indecision about what you want to be when you grow up... and you can live with that for a year but throughout that year, you would have decided an ENTIRE year of decisions... You choose how you live, what you live by, and what ethical and moral compass you wish to live in.

[geoff]

everybodys opinions mean something to me bro cuz your my brother in Christ. you may not believe in Him but He believes in you bro. i care about every single person and i try to live my life according to the bible and whether you accept it or believe it or not my faith teaches me that im not to keep it to myself but to tell others of Jesus.

[StreetHazard]

everybodys opinions mean something to me bro cuz your my brother in Christ. you may not believe in Him but He believes in you bro. i care about every single person and i try to live my life according to the bible and whether you accept it or believe it or not my faith teaches me that im not to keep it to myself but to tell others of Jesus.

So you consider yourself a disciple of Jesus Christ do you? Lets see...

First of all 'We know that we have come to know Jesus if we obey his commands' John 2: 3-4. So what are the commands of Jesus?

1. Love your enemies:

'But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.'
Luke 6: 27-28.

Do you love your enemies? probably not, If you troll groups because their opinions differ from yours.

2. Give away everything you own:

'If you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give them to the poor'
Matthew 19: 21-24

'Any who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple'
Luke 14:33

Do you claim ownership over anything? Probably, and rightly so, if you didn't have a house to call your own you would die of exposure.

3. Hate your family:

'If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes even his own life - he cannot be my disciple'
Luke 14: 26-33

You probably don't hate your family, and rightly so. Why should someone who expects you to love your enemies want you to hate your family? And why do the
10 commandments ask that you 'honour thy father and mother?'

4. Disembowl yourself for your sins:

'...Anyone who looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery. Your right eyes causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. Better that you lose one part of your body than for all your body to burn in hell'
Matthew 5: 27-30

Looked at anyone lustfully and blinded yourself in disgust at your own sin lately?

5. Drink poison and perform healing miracles:

'these signs will accompany those who believe... when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all, they will place their hands on sick people and they will get well'
Mark 16: 17-18

Will you do either of these things to prove your faith?

If you haven't ignored this post and are open-minded enough to have read everything, you have hopefully realized that you are not a true christian as Jesus intended, and that his arguments are self contradictory and absurd. That is called thinking rationally, and thinking rationally is the basis of Atheism.

[geoff]

1. love your enemies, you have this part right. i may not agree with my enemies or those who oppose my views but i respect all and care for everyones well being.

2. your use of scripture here is plainly wrong. matthew 19:21-24 is the story of the rich young ruler who followed the commandments but valued his possesions more than anything. Jesus asked him to let go of all his vain earthly possesions because He knew the man valued them more than anything. Jesus wants true service, he wants us not to place more value on anything earthly because they pass away but our relationship with Him will yeild everlasting life.

3. once again you do as so many others and only pick and choose of the scriptures like a buffet line. He wants us to value God more than any other relationship. to God the order of importance goes as so, God, family, church, friends. we need to place our highest priority on our salvation.

4. Jesus did not expect us to take this literally nor was it understood at so. He was explaining the severity of the consequences of sin and said that instead of losing your soul you would be better off to cut off the parts that make you sin. and my friend i am a sinner, and my sin does disgust me.

5. this talks about the power of the Spirit of God inside of us, the Holy Spirit. Jesus meant that His Spirit will be protection for you and that through His power you shall be able to heal the sick in His name. and i have personally seen healings and miracles of such after someone was prayed for and anointed. my family has had a few of these happen.

my friend i fully read this post and responded to it. you have done what countless others, including christians themselves have done and only used a scripture or two to try and prove a point without even reading or understanding the entire passage. you twist these scriptures to your own ideas and theories because you lack faith in the Word of God. you have ears but do not hear and eyes but do not see because your heart is hardened. you will never be able to comprehend the revelation of God or understand what His Word says because you try to see it through mortal eyes. you can never comprehend something that you dont know, you cant think of God in your human boxed in mentality because we as people have restrictions and limitations and our own ideas of what logic is, God is above our comprehension and logic and we will never be able to completely understand the mysteries of God. i sin daily and fall short of what Jesus calls me to be but im not perfect and the bible says i never will be, only through the blood of Christ can i be made perfect and i have accepted that in my life. i am made perfect in Gods' eyes through my acceptance of His sacrifice on the cross. Jesus had no arguements nor were His words contradictory, like i said before, someone without knowledge of God and no faith can never understand His word. " ever learning, and never being able to come to the knowledge of the truth" 2 timothy 3:7.

your ideas of rational thinking have been established by other men of knowledge that have looked for truth and are ever changing their ideals. my knowledge of truth comes from my God and will never change. atheism is the result of rebelious men that didnt want to submit to a higher power.

[RaptorJesus]

Fuck organized religion




That is all.

[Jaimecbr900]

Fuck organized religion




That is all.

Hmmm, you guys are right.....it's ONLY "Christians" that are closed minded.....

If you're not going to add anything besides this, please stay out of this thread. It's stayed civil so far, and I'm going to make sure it stays that way.

[geoff]

its very easy for things to get that way jaime.

[Lankhoss]

What a rude awakening it was when I realized that God didn't exist (at least not the Christian one I have been taught about).

But I'll tell you this....realizing the truth sure cleared up a lot of confusion I had when I was a "Christian."

[geoff]

im sorry to hear you lost your faith bro. i will be praying for you man