Could Jesus have been an alien?

[geoff]

but there is evidence on some religions. and to all who think Jesus was an alien....thats just absurd. Jesus claimed He was God in flesh not some alien race that created the world. if He was not God and just some alien then who created this alien race that was supposed to do all these miracles? too many people try to put their own oppinions into what the bible means and who God is. its not that complicated. The bible states who God is and what He is about in a LITERAL meaning. there doesnt need to be any investigation cuz He was very clear about it. He was God not e.t.

[Maniacc]

but there is evidence on some religions. and to all who think Jesus was an alien....thats just absurd. Jesus claimed He was God in flesh not some alien race that created the world. if He was not God and just some alien then who created this alien race that was supposed to do all these miracles? too many people try to put their own oppinions into what the bible means and who God is. its not that complicated. The bible states who God is and what He is about in a LITERAL meaning. there doesnt need to be any investigation cuz He was very clear about it. He was God not e.t.

Take this as an example:

I go back 20,000 years into the past when there were cro-magnons around. Introduce them to a few simple products - nothing high-tech. Just very simple tools that we have today like; a flashlight which they could use to see at night. A lighter to start fires. Knifes so they can cut their meat and make clothes with very little effort, ect ect ect...

Do you think that they'll see me as a God or just another cro-magnon? Answer honestly.

Just because we think we're such an advance civilization and think we have every single possible tool available to become a powerful and highly intelligent species -- we really do not. Tomorrow we could have an alien make a world-wide introduction and show us 10% of it's technology and I can bet that we would all be flabbergasted. We would see ourselves as primitive after that.

[geoff]

you make very good points but Jesus did not give us new technology He did not introduce us to some way to make our lives easier He did not come to show us we are primitive. He simply came to show us how to live and how to obtain forgiveness for our wickedness. this "theory" that Jesus was an alien is about as whack as scientology. He was God, He came to give us an easier way out of our own peril and provided Himself as the ultimate sacrifice. now....are there aliens or some other life forms out there? i honestly dont know. the only thing to support that are conspiracy theories and so called sightings. the only way to know would be for us to actually make contact or to die and when we stand before God He reveals us. i honestly dont know and dont care. i have my own salvation to work out and have to figure out how to live my life according to His Word. if by some means there does exist other life out there i know God would have revealed Himself to them too and they are trying to do what they can to make it, God would have created them too ya know?

[Maniacc]

you make very good points but Jesus did not give us new technology He did not introduce us to some way to make our lives easier He did not come to show us we are primitive. He simply came to show us how to live and how to obtain forgiveness for our wickedness. this "theory" that Jesus was an alien is about as whack as scientology. He was God, He came to give us an easier way out of our own peril and provided Himself as the ultimate sacrifice. now....are there aliens or some other life forms out there? i honestly dont know. the only thing to support that are conspiracy theories and so called sightings. the only way to know would be for us to actually make contact or to die and when we stand before God He reveals us. i honestly dont know and dont care. i have my own salvation to work out and have to figure out how to live my life according to His Word. if by some means there does exist other life out there i know God would have revealed Himself to them too and they are trying to do what they can to make it, God would have created them too ya know?

I understand what you're saying, but could you work with me and try to be a little open-minded? I kinda feel like I'm replying to a robot who's programmed to keep repeating the word of God. I mean if your belief is that strong then props, but try to retort with something other than what's in your heart and instead post with your brain.

Don't take it the wrong way. I have very religious parents who both have faith that cannot be swayed by my words(believe me I've tried), and I'm not against that. I want to continue gaining knowledge throughout my existence.

To me being a religious person limits your capability to learn and see the world for what it really is. In the distant future when we come in contact with extraterrestrial who are far more advance than us, who can walk on water, heal the blind, and perform miracles would you consider it just an alien or a being with God-like powers? Before you try to put the word God into a sentence I would like to know what your definition of God is.

[batlbrandon]

Having not been brought up in a "religious" home I have had to come up with my own beliefs. I was visited by Jehovas Witness for a number of years and I was the only one in my family that would answer the door when they came. They never pressed me. Just talked and I listened. That is about it as far as my exposure to religion.

What I have come up with to this point in my life is, aren't all religions fundamentally the same? The belief of a higher being, a creator? If it is an omnipresent being or aliens, Alah or God, or Jesus. It is all the same. It gives us purpose and hope and faith. Why are these considered bad things by some? I for one do not believe. I, for now, think maybe we are an anomoly. are there other anomolies? sure. based on the sheer size of the universe there has to other forms of intelligent life. But why can't there be an end all be all to all things? I can't understand why believers and non believers would dispute the other. None of us have the answer and to claim to have proof of the contrary is an excercise in futility. There is no proof, until we are gone.

This doesn't do anything for the subject but I wanted to get that off my chest. I've talked about this with some people on here, face to face, but never to strangers in a forum. Only thing we can do is agree to disagree. In the end it won't matter, we'll either all see each other and all will be forgiven, or it just ends and there is nothing.

[Crazy Asian]

yes jesus was an alien and buddha was a naked fat female and the 40 virgins in heaven are not girls but rather guys who want to get laid so bad that they would do anything thats tight and warm.

[batlbrandon]

^^^^^see and thats the beauty about all this....it may be true!

[yojimbo]

yes jesus was an alien and buddha was a naked fat female and the 40 virgins in heaven are not girls but rather guys who want to get laid so bad that they would do anything thats tight and warm.

... don't forget about the talking snack being real. srsly -- as in forreal forreal
they showed one in the discovery channel a few weeks ago.

what? don't believe me?

[geoff]

"Don't take it the wrong way. I have very religious parents who both have faith that cannot be swayed by my words(believe me I've tried), and I'm not against that. I want to continue gaining knowledge throughout my existence."

"To me being a religious person limits your capability to learn and see the world for what it really is. In the distant future when we come in contact with extraterrestrial who are far more advance than us, who can walk on water, heal the blind, and perform miracles would you consider it just an alien or a being with God-like powers? Before you try to put the word God into a sentence I would like to know what your definition of God is."


i as a religious person dont feel like im limited by it to learn and see the world for what it really is. Mankind is evil and so is the world, just look around you and turn on the news you can see this to be true without dispute.

my definition of God is this. Jesus ( God ) created everything we see and dont see. He gave all things a purpose, He instilled in us a need to learn and to know and His original purpose was for us to seek Him and love Him because He loved us first. He sustains everything every day so the world continues to function as it does. He is a very present being in our lives, He loves us and gave us a chance to have everlasting peace with Him by sacrificing Himself for us even when we were not worthy. if you will...imagine this scenario with me....one day while you are driving you dont pay attention and you get caught doing 140mph in a school zone. you go to court and the judge tells you that your fine is $10,000. you begin to tell the judge that there is no way for you to come up with the money so he decides to put you in prison. then out of nowhere a man comes in and talks to the judge on your behalf and pays the fine for you. you dont know him or why he did it but your very touched and greatful. This is what Jesus Christ did for you, me, all of us 2000 years ago. He paid the debt for us when no one else could just because He loved us. that is what God is to me. He listens to my prayers and provides all things for me and i love Him with all my heart. I fail Him everyday but HE still loves me.

i lost my great grandmother on monday. we had the wake yesterday and buried her today. she went 2 hours without oxygen, a pulse, or a heartbeat. they were able to revive her and keep her alive through vast ammounts of medicine. long enough for all of us to say our goodbyes. the doctors told us that she was competely brain dead and couldnt feel or hear anything. in fact her body was so completely shut down and running on machines that she hadnt produced any fluids. anyway, at 10pm on monday night all her children,grand children, and great grand children were gathered around and said our goodbyes. suddenly a tear ran down her face and as my grandmother, her only daughter, wiped it away...her heart stopped and she passed. i believe she had heard us and God shut down her body so she would not feel the pain but she could hear all of our words. she was a devout christian woman for the past 40+ years and i know without a shadow of a doubt that she will one day be with the Lord when He returns. it was a miracle the doctors where able to revive her after two hours of being dead, its a miracle that with her body shut down and her brain completely dead that at the end she shed a tear for us. God is real and always present. i hope all of you hear with doubts and disbeliefs will one day come to know the love of God and have HIM and not men build your faith. God bless

[Maniacc]

i as a religious person dont feel like im limited by it to learn and see the world for what it really is. Mankind is evil and so is the world, just look around you and turn on the news you can see this to be true without dispute.

Our society is full of evil, but life is not. When I look up at the morning sky and see birds and the sun rising - I don't look at it as religous people would -- it, being something created by God, but see it for what it really is.

Complete beauty.

A combination of random birds on their way to a new location in hopes to find some food, mate, or whatever, and the morning sky's clouds mixed with our sun's rays that make up the orange glow to our sky. The cool morning breeze. The world is not evil. We are. Fuck the news and all the bullshit that's going around our society. Who gives a shit about our existence?! Really.

my definition of God is this. Jesus ( God ) created everything we see and dont see. He gave all things a purpose, He instilled in us a need to learn and to know and His original purpose was for us to seek Him and love Him because He loved us first. He sustains everything every day so the world continues to function as it does. He is a very present being in our lives, He loves us and gave us a chance to have everlasting peace with Him by sacrificing Himself for us even when we were not worthy. if you will...imagine this scenario with me....one day while you are driving you dont pay attention and you get caught doing 140mph in a school zone. you go to court and the judge tells you that your fine is $10,000. you begin to tell the judge that there is no way for you to come up with the money so he decides to put you in prison. then out of nowhere a man comes in and talks to the judge on your behalf and pays the fine for you. you dont know him or why he did it but your very touched and greatful. This is what Jesus Christ did for you, me, all of us 2000 years ago. He paid the debt for us when no one else could just because He loved us. that is what God is to me. He listens to my prayers and provides all things for me and i love Him with all my heart. I fail Him everyday but HE still loves me.

Funny.

My mother uses very simlier metaphors. Being the realistic person that I am know that there are many reasons as to why someone would bail someone out of a $10,000 fine. Do I feel like listing them all?

Not really - because well, it wouldn't change a thing. It would add to our discussion, but nothing relevant to the subject.

But I really liked your story. Especially the part where some random person 'accidentally' got his/her car up to 160 miles per hour in a school zone and still managed to get caught without having to slam on their brakes in order to avoid going straight through stores and on-coming traffic. I mean 160 is crazy! I've done 150 in my WRX and lemme tell you - if I went 160 in a school zone I'd be F-U-C-K-E-D! Nice story though.

It concludes everything!

We can stop developing medicine to treat drug resistant bacteria and viruses now, right?

i lost my great grandmother on monday. we had the wake yesterday and buried her today. she went 2 hours without oxygen, a pulse, or a heartbeat. they were able to revive her and keep her alive through vast ammounts of medicine. long enough for all of us to say our goodbyes. the doctors told us that she was competely brain dead and couldnt feel or hear anything. in fact her body was so completely shut down and running on machines that she hadnt produced any fluids. anyway, at 10pm on monday night all her children,grand children, and great grand children were gathered around and said our goodbyes. suddenly a tear ran down her face and as my grandmother, her only daughter, wiped it away...her heart stopped and she passed. i believe she had heard us and God shut down her body so she would not feel the pain but she could hear all of our words. she was a devout christian woman for the past 40+ years and i know without a shadow of a doubt that she will one day be with the Lord when He returns. it was a miracle the doctors where able to revive her after two hours of being dead, its a miracle that with her body shut down and her brain completely dead that at the end she shed a tear for us. God is real and always present. i hope all of you hear with doubts and disbeliefs will one day come to know the love of God and have HIM and not men build your faith. God bless

I have a few theories as to what could have caused your great grandmother to live even after being pronounced dead for two hours, but that's something I'd rather not touch. I can tell that you're very emotional right now -- so give this thread a break and go clear your mind for a couple days.

I'd like to continue this once you start using logic instead of responding with your emotions.

And may your great grandmother RIP.

[BABY J]

I find it interesting that you mention all of the machines she was attached to, but still call it a miracle from God. No offense, but the miracle is probably the fact that the machines were available. But I won't taint such a sensitive subject. Although death is never a sensitive subject for me (it's just a reality) I do try to respect the way that others view it.

My condolences.

[creman]

wait, so you can believe in alien races that we have no proof of, but then scoff at the idea of God? Irony at it's best I suppose.

Do you honestly believe in random chance to the point that we were created? Do you know how specific the conditions around evolution had to be in order for it to proceed like it did, and this is just "chance"? Seriously?

You mock and make fun of Christians for believing in a book, however that would make you a hypocrit. Have you ever been to the moon? How do you know anyone really has? Have you ever been 400 feet deep in the ocean, how do you know it exist? Have you ever done your own experiment to figure out how old the earth is? No? So you believe books/TV that say how old it is correct? How did THEY know how to do the experiments? They read them? oh, ok...
That makes you a hypocrit for calling us fools in believing the Bible.

I'll admit, I can't prove God. The thing about it is, I don't have to. Us as Christians rely on faith. We know he's there, because we have a personal relationship with him.

[BABY J]

^^ Who was that directed to?

[creman]

Mainly maniacc, but there is a mixture in there honestly. It's sortof a total response to the entire thread so far because I don't wish to pick apart each posts from several different people.

[BABY J]

wait, so you can believe in alien races that we have no proof of, but then scoff at the idea of God? Irony at it's best I suppose.

You'd be suprised what we have proof/video/evidence of in this arena. I worked in a place where that was what we did all day long (Air Force Space Command / Northcomm / NORAD in Cheyenne Mountain, CO). That's all I will say about that.

Do you honestly believe in random chance to the point that we were created? Do you know how specific the conditions around evolution had to be in order for it to proceed like it did, and this is just "chance"? Seriously?

This is more probable than virgin births, walking on water, feeding thousands w/ 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread.

You mock and make fun of Christians for believing in a book, however that would make you a hypocrit. Have you ever been to the moon? How do you know anyone really has? Have you ever been 400 feet deep in the ocean, how do you know it exist? Have you ever done your own experiment to figure out how old the earth is? No? So you believe books/TV that say how old it is correct? How did THEY know how to do the experiments? They read them? oh, ok...

I can look out of my window and see the moon. I personally couldn't give 2 shits if we have been there. I've also been to the ocean - not 400 feet deep but I have a brother in the Navy that will probably confirm that 400 feet is just the tip of the iceberg sir. It's statements like these that BLATANTLY reject common GLOBAL knowledge that makes your folk the laughing stock - how can you REALLY think some1 is going to listen to you when you are basically rejecting the moon and the oceans? LOL.

SO WHAT if every person on the planet hasn't personally experimented w/ the age of the Earth --- the bottom line is there is an answer that's "more right" than all of the others. Furthermore, no1 is making the extraordinary claim that scientists are their Personal Lord and Savior or their Personal Scientists. Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary evidence to support it --- something that the religious community has never been able to produce in large quantity --- DEFINITELY not large enuff quantity to swear your life and bank account by it.

I'll admit, I can't prove God. The thing about it is, I don't have to. Us as Christians rely on faith. We know he's there, because we have a personal relationship with him.

Please describe this personal relationship with God that you have. What has he PERSONALLY done for you in the last month? I'm not being coy - I'd just really like to know.

[creman]

I can look out of my window and see the moon. I personally couldn't give 2 shits if we have been there. I've also been to the ocean - not 400 feet deep but I have a brother in the Navy that will probably confirm that 400 feet is just the tip of the iceberg sir. It's statements like these that BLATANTLY reject common GLOBAL knowledge that makes your folk the laughing stock - how can you REALLY think some1 is going to listen to you when you are basically rejecting the moon and the oceans? LOL.

SO WHAT if every person on the planet hasn't personally experimented w/ the age of the Earth --- the bottom line is there is an answer that's "more right" than all of the others. Furthermore, no1 is making the extraordinary claim that scientists are their Personal Lord and Savior or their Personal Scientists. Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary evidence to support it --- something that the religious community has never been able to produce in large quantity --- DEFINITELY not large enuff quantity to swear your life and bank account by it.

So it's by word of mouth. Guess what the bible is considered? Just because you're told by someone, or read it, what makes one more credible than the other? My answer is because I know who God is, and I know his "writing" when I read it. What's your excuse?

Can you not admit it makes you at least somewhat hypocritical?

As for what has God done for me, My wife has had trouble finding a job ever since she graduated from college. after some actions and prayer (actions as in her tithing what little she had) she now has 4 different job offers within a week. Again, you'll right this off as "chance" just like evolution, but when all of the "Chance" continues happening in a way that everything turns out right, at what point do you say there might be something to it?
I speak with my God everyday, and he speaks back. Audible voice? No, however he shows me through experiences and "my heart" which is another term used for the Holy Spirit. I know you don't understand this, because you haven't experienced it. so what do you want me to say?

Just as your brother told you about 400 feet under the Ocean, i'm telling you about God and my Lord. The funny thing is we have the choice as to what we want to believe, and I was just stating how I find it ironic and hypocritical the way Christians are blasted by non-Christians when they have less proof of "science" than we do. Can I prove God? No more than you can prove the wind. I just happen to believe in both.

[BABY J]

The difference is this:

I can say "there's the moon" to some1 who doesn't believe it -- and they can see it. They instantly become a believer after seeing it or they're stupid.

I can take some1 who doesn't believe in the ocean TO the ocean and let them see it and swim in it... either they start to believe it that day or they are an idiot.

Guess what - I don't pray, I make 6 figures a year. Is the God that I don't believe in showing me favor? Tell me about the things that you pray for that you DON'T get --- tell me about those. What about the MILLIONS of people that God is NOT good to. The notion that "well, God is good to ME and that's all that matters" is a CROCK. There are MORE people that he is NOT good too - explain that. The simple fact is that God (if she exists) is NOT good to a lot of the people a lot of the time. So you prayed for a job and you got offers --- "God" MUST be good right? Well isn't that some selfish shit right there if I ever heard it. There are ALSO people who had a good job and just MAGICALLY lost it, became homeless, cracked out, and died. There are ALSO kids getting pimped and raped in alleys asking for invisible help from "God" that never arrives. "God" is SOO good - let me tell you.

Look sir... in life you don't always get what you pray for, you don't always get what you deserve... you get what you get... and that's whether you believe in God or not.

So you say God speaks to you? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? Do you REALLY think that a God capable or creating all the we see and all that we know thinks YOU are THAT special that She is going to take time out of her day to speak to you? LOL. Don't forget --- you're not special, so she is going to take time out of her existence to speak to the MILLIONS of other followers too?? Wow. Furthermore -- do you think that you and every other bible-thumper has been created SOOOO special that you have the "stuff" required to 'hear' from such a supernatural being? If a God that powerful "spoke" to you your head would fucking exlplode.

[creman]

haha, I'm not going to respond to you. The last post is full of nothing but personal attacks, hate, and the obvious fact that you don't understand. Good luck with that bro.
I'm not going to argue with you, you asked for an example and I gave it. If you really want me to answer you, try being decent.

[BABY J]

I don't need your repsonse... at the end of the day your stance boils down to "you gotta have faith" when you're cornered or questioned. I undertand --- trust that. And as far as hate... I don't have the "stuff" required to hate any1... that's not a part of my DNA.

Good luck sir. Respect.

[creman]

the reason you're angry is because you know I'm right, at least in part. Take a break, then come back and we'll discuss. But you just proved my point as to how much Christians are put down for doing nothing more than believing something different than you. Then we are called the closed minded ones. Ironic, and hypocritical as I've mentioned several times. The whole point of my posts so far is to get rid of the hostility towards us Christians so we can have an actual conversation instead of having to defend ourselves the whole time. Because what's the point in it for us to stand here and be bashed over and over?

as far as my answer becoming "you gotta have faith", well duh. All in all you have to have faith at some point. That faith can be in God, science, religion, people, something. I just put my faith in an all powerful being who created us. If you have faith in nothing else it has to be in yourself, because You're reall aren't you? That takes faith (this could be the matrix and all be a dream).

[Maniacc]

Hey, Jason.

It's obvious that 'creman' dude cannot comprehend anything that you have been saying. All he's doing it using a primitive style of combat. Using the same old played out routine that I heard back when I was in middle school. It didn't work then and it won't work now - so let's just worry about people who actually seem to be a little smart when it comes to this topic like; sport_122, and maybe geoff.

But from the looks of it they too are running out of things to say. Whereas I(and I'm sure you too) can keep this up for weeks.

[BABY J]

the reason you're angry is because you know I'm right, at least in part. Take a break, then come back and we'll discuss. But you just proved my point as to how much Christians are put down for doing nothing more than believing something different than you. Then we are called the closed minded ones. Ironic, and hypocritical as I've mentioned several times. The whole point of my posts so far is to get rid of the hostility towards us Christians so we can have an actual conversation instead of having to defend ourselves the whole time. Because what's the point in it for us to stand here and be bashed over and over?

as far as my answer becoming "you gotta have faith", well duh. All in all you have to have faith at some point. That faith can be in God, science, religion, people, something. I just put my faith in an all powerful being who created us. If you have faith in nothing else it has to be in yourself, because You're reall aren't you? That takes faith (this could be the matrix and all be a dream).

Angry? When and where? In fact I am laughing at you - not angry at all. I have never been hostile towards anyones beliefs - that's what the religious wars are/were about. I've always said that I'm all about people being who they wanna be. But they laughed at Jesus --- so WHO ARE YOU? You think you get a free ride? NOT.

I believe in me. PERIOD. As I said --- respect.

[choiiiiiiiii]

The difference is this:

I can say "there's the moon" to some1 who doesn't believe it -- and they can see it. They instantly become a believer after seeing it or they're stupid.

I can take some1 who doesn't believe in the ocean TO the ocean and let them see it and swim in it... either they start to believe it that day or they are an idiot.

Guess what - I don't pray, I make 6 figures a year. Is the God that I don't believe in showing me favor? Tell me about the things that you pray for that you DON'T get --- tell me about those. What about the MILLIONS of people that God is NOT good to. The notion that "well, God is good to ME and that's all that matters" is a CROCK. There are MORE people that he is NOT good too - explain that. The simple fact is that God (if she exists) is NOT good to a lot of the people a lot of the time. So you prayed for a job and you got offers --- "God" MUST be good right? Well isn't that some selfish shit right there if I ever heard it. There are ALSO people who had a good job and just MAGICALLY lost it, became homeless, cracked out, and died. There are ALSO kids getting pimped and raped in alleys asking for invisible help from "God" that never arrives. "God" is SOO good - let me tell you.

Look sir... in life you don't always get what you pray for, you don't always get what you deserve... you get what you get... and that's whether you believe in God or not.

So you say God speaks to you? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? Do you REALLY think that a God capable or creating all the we see and all that we know thinks YOU are THAT special that She is going to take time out of her day to speak to you? LOL. Don't forget --- you're not special, so she is going to take time out of her existence to speak to the MILLIONS of other followers too?? Wow. Furthermore -- do you think that you and every other bible-thumper has been created SOOOO special that you have the "stuff" required to 'hear' from such a supernatural being? If a God that powerful "spoke" to you your head woulda fucking exlplode.

6 figures? Who says having 6 figures is the only way to be shown a favor? Again, money doesn’t buy you happiness. People live happy and great lives without a 6 figure income….you having so just means you worked hard and became successful. God did not need to help you with that, but he most likely did.

And when did it become believed that God has to be good to us all the time? It seems in your world, for God to be your homeboy, he has to be the all perfect, never let anyone down God….news flash for you, it doesn’t work that way…because there is also evil…his name is satan.



God speaks to us all. Maybe not through obvious ways like speaking to us, but through little things throughout the day that we might take for granted…





You sure seem to hate Christianity, perhaps God let you down once? Something happened with a loved one?

[BABY J]

6 figures? Who says having 6 figures is the only way to be shown a favor? Again, money doesn’t buy you happiness. People live happy and great lives without a 6 figure income….you having so just means you worked hard and became successful. God did not need to help you with that, but he most likely did.

And when did it become believed that God has to be good to us all the time? It seems in your world, for God to be your homeboy, he has to be the all perfect, never let anyone down God….news flash for you, it doesn’t work that way…because there is also evil…his name is satan.

God speaks to us all. Maybe not through obvious ways like speaking to us, but through little things throughout the day that we might take for granted…

You sure seem to hate Christianity, perhaps God let you down once? Something happened with a loved one?

LOL @ the new guy running up in the thread. I tell you what - before you pre-judge, maybe read a few of the threads on this subject and figure out who I am, but more importantly who I am not.

It is impossible for God to let me down b/c She doesn't exist... at least not in the sense that it's taught in Church anyway. Also... when did I mention Christianity in any of my posts in this thread? Again - can't see the forest for looking at the trees.

I mentioned my career b/c Creman mentioned his wifes struggles for a job - and it was ONLY for comparison - not to gloat. It was used as an example --- you're quite possibly the only person that didn't see that though.

I'm not one of those people that has to "give credit to God" for every little thing that I do. I have a VERY simple view on this thing. If there is a God, she is DEFINITLEY not sitting on a throne making moves to affect every little thing you do or don't do w/ your life - helping you get jobs - making sure robbers don't hit your house. If that was the case you wouldn't have shown up on this rock as one of the most intelligent beings that we know. To ask the invisible for more is just plain RUDE. YOU EXIST --- you EXIST... you can be some1 that changes the world JUST b/c of that fact alone if you know how to think for yourself. But no - that's not enough for you is it, EXISTING is not enough for thumpers. "Hey God, in addition to giving me the CHANCE OF A FUCKING LIFETIME (you could have shown up as a cockroach ya kno) to shape my OWN life and be whoever I DARE DREAM TO BE --- how about I ask you for more and more shit every night? PLEASE God, in addition to giving me life as the most marvelous of all yoru creation, I'm gonna need you to help me w/ a job in that said life - I'm gonna need you to help me pass this test at school so I can make more money - I'm gonna need you to help me get this loan Lord so I can buy shit. Oh - and Lord, I'm the most advanced and capable of all of your creations but PLEASE think for me too so I don't have to do it on my own." SAVE IT!!! If there is a God, she set things in motion for us to EXIST and for us as people to figure the rest out on our own - and we as a people are failing miserably at that. Falling on your knees praying for God to help your neighbor when YOU are your neighbors neighbor - NOT God. If there is a God she is probably disappointed about thumpers asking for "help" for things that she has given you all the power to change on your own. I see it all the time when people pray... "God please help those that are less fortunate than we are.", then you get up and throw away half a plate of food b/c it didn't taste right. YOU HELP THOSE PEOPLE!! Stop playing yourself short and give yourself more credit sirs. People have missed the whole ship and it's disgusting.

PLEASE show me where I said I hate Christianity. I'd like to see that... and again, God has never let me down. I EXIST - that is fine for me and is enough for me. Don't try to see me man, that's too tall of an order for you --- trust me. Stick w/ what you think you know.

[geoff]

i want to start by saying thankyou to maniac and baby j for your condolences. i really appreciate it. its funny but im not actually grieving. she lived a long happy life and left behind a great legacy. we will remember how she lived not how she died. once again thankyou both.

now to answer a few things. yes the machines being there was a miracle i guess you can say...but the true miracle is that after two hours she was brought back. i believe God saw us and heard our prayers and gave us atleast enough time with her to hear us and to say our goodbyes.

and as far as the suffering in this world and what not. i have done some studying and reading and i came upon a book titled " investigating christian evidences- a study course" by Bert Thompson, Ph.D and Brad Harrub, Ph.D In chapter 4 pgs. 111-113 they explained that those who dont believe in God have two common reasons why they dont believe. 1. "real intellectual obstacles" meaning their intellect refuses to believe in creating something from nothing, virgin birth, walking on water, ect...who consider believing in God on par with believing in the tooth fairy or santa claus. or 2. they simply dont want to believe in a transendent God cuz its bothersome or not convenient to them. then you have those that say if God is real then why is there evil, suffering, pain, loss, ect...and if He is all loving then He either doesnt have the power to stop it and isnt all powerful or He has the ability to stop it and is all powerful but chooses not to and is therefor not all loving. here is my answer to this. FREE WILL and NATURAL LAWS. the child that is prostituted and is a drug addict, that was not their choice but some adult that took advantage of them and used the innocent child. so in this case that adult chose to impose His will on that child. therefor that adult is evil, not God. and God does not interfere because that child will have the opportunity to be in a place with no more pain, suffering,ect and pure eternal happiness. the innocent lives that died in that tsunami a few years ago would represent natural law. they live in a region where there are earthquakes and tsunamis would be a result of that. with natural law if you jump off a building thats 15 stories tall gravity makes you fall and when you hit the ground you die, when you step out in front of a bus in motion guess what that object will remain in motion. natural laws...on september 11, 2001 those arib men took it into their own hands (free will) and fly those planes into a building full of innocent unsuspecting lives. natural states that the consequence of running a plane into a building means destruction. so who is evil here? God or the men that decided to put it into their hands to take those lives?

i keep hearing the non believer arguements about not believing in God and the ones with faith trying to defend something we ourselves don fully comprehend. and all this leads to is the same old thing a stalemate where believers keep believing and non believers keep doing their own thing. i say that we try a new approach, instead of trying to prove our beliefs with evidence why not instead try to understand and comprehend where each side is coming from. let us take the time to put aside our arguements and instead try to learn from one another? after all are we not all just trying to seek more knowledge in the end?

[geoff]

baby j i find it funny that in your post above you capitalized God and Lord and you dont believe. i thought that was just something us "thumpers" did

[BABY J]

baby j i find it funny that in your post above you capitalized God and Lord and you dont believe. i thought that was just something us "thumpers" did

That's b/c I don't disrespect your view even though I don't agree with it. LOL - did you find it funny that I made a gender reference to God being a "She" and a "her"? I did.

[creman]

I mentioned my career b/c Creman mentioned his wifes struggles for a job - and it was ONLY for comparison - not to gloat. It was used as an example --- you're quite possibly the only person that didn't see that though.

But you missed the piont. It's not about the money, plus you have no idea what type of salary she makes. It's the fact that once asked for, it was given. It is an example, I didn't turn it into a money debate, you did because aparantly it made you feel superior.

i keep hearing the non believer arguements about not believing in God and the ones with faith trying to defend something we ourselves don fully comprehend. and all this leads to is the same old thing a stalemate where believers keep believing and non believers keep doing their own thing. i say that we try a new approach, instead of trying to prove our beliefs with evidence why not instead try to understand and comprehend where each side is coming from. let us take the time to put aside our arguements and instead try to learn from one another? after all are we not all just trying to seek more knowledge in the end?

I disagree. There are the few who read and don't voice their opinion. They can choose to believe what they want, but I want to make sure they hear both sides.

plus baby you say "I'm not hostile" and then the next sentance say "I'm laughing at you." I'm writing you off as a true liar and hypocrit.

edited to take out other personal insults...

[BABY J]

But you missed the piont. It's not about the money, plus you have no idea what type of salary she makes. It's the fact that once asked for, it was given. It is an example, I didn't turn it into a money debate, you did because aparantly it made you feel superior.

Ok - now you're just being a dork - and I'll return the favor and oblige. It has NOTHING to do w/ making any1 feel superior - you obv didn't read my response to that above. THE FACT IS that I don't believe. I had no problems finding work after college. I didn't have to "ask" and "receive" - I made myself marketable and I simple walked up and chose from the many offers I had. That was to show you that you DON'T always get what you want - what you pray for - or what you deserve. You get what you get. Please tell me that you understand that b4 u assume I'd say something "just" to feel "superior" over some1 that I don't even know.. I hope you give my I.Q and intelligence more respect than that.

[creman]

actually no. I've learned people who brag about their I.Q. usually have little. Again, I laugh at you making fun of how marketable my wife is, or our life situation when really you have no idea. I would say all around you're just ignorant.

[BABY J]

plus baby you say "I'm not hostile" and then the next sentance say "I'm laughing at you." I'm writing you off as a true liar and hypocrit. With that said, I've never seen anyone with a 6 figure salary drive this


I'm assuming it's yours considering there are tons of pictures from a site in your profile from start to finish. Good luck at life! I really feel sorry for ya.

Since when does laughing = hostile?? I mean - I only spent 8 years in the military in many hostile environments and not once in Afghanistan, Iraq, counter-drug in S. America, Bahrain was laughing prevalent in those VERY hostile environments.

So go to KBB.COM and tell me what that car was worth --- then come to my house and let's tally up receipts. Let's take a better example - pull the pics from the 2003 Spec V and guess how much money (since you want to continue to push the financial aspects of things) and guess how much money it takes to get a stock 153hp QR25DE to get to 242HP ALL MOTOR under the capable of hands of the now defunct Sunbelt Racing Engines. Again... you don't know what you don't know. I have more cars that you have fingers and that is not exaggerating.

Not that I owe you an explanation, but I assure you my pockets aren't nervous. I am VERY much grounded b/c I got to where I am now the HARD way. And I like that, b/c I don't have to drive a Z06 to prove a point to you. I've made 6 figures since 2004 and you are hard pressed to find me in anything other than a $10 Aeropastale tee shirt. But if you want to compare ATM receipts we can. Unlike a lot of people, I still like the SAME things that I liked when I was working the drive-thru at Krystal's as a 15 year old - I just do it bigger and better. To switch up to a supercar (which is something I am VERY capable of doing) is simply not me. I didn't change my appetitie when I changed my net worth.

There is NO need to "feel sorry" for me kind sir. Obviously I hurt your feelings. And if you think what I drive is any indication of what I make then I must be doing something right - LOL. Good thing I don't have feelings or they'd be hurt right now - lol.

[choiiiiiiiii]

LOL @ the new guy running up in the thread. I tell you what - before you pre-judge, maybe read a few of the threads on this subject and figure out who I am, but more importantly who I am not.

It is impossible for God to let me down b/c She doesn't exist... at least not in the sense that it's taught in Church anyway. Also... when did I mention Christianity in any of my posts in this thread? Again - can't see the forest for looking at the trees.

I mentioned my career b/c Creman mentioned his wifes struggles for a job - and it was ONLY for comparison - not to gloat. It was used as an example --- you're quite possibly the only person that didn't see that though.

I'm not one of those people that has to "give credit to God" for every little thing that I do. I have a VERY simple view on this thing. If there is a God, she is DEFINITLEY not sitting on a throne making moves to affect every little thing you do or don't do w/ your life - helping you get jobs - making sure robbers don't hit your house. If that was the case you wouldn't have shown up on this rock as one of the most intelligent beings that we know. To ask the invisible for more is just plain RUDE. YOU EXIST --- you EXIST... you can be some1 that changes the world JUST b/c of that fact alone if you know how to think for yourself. But no - that's not enough for you is it, EXISTING is not enough for thumpers. "Hey God, in addition to giving me the CHANCE OF A FUCKING LIFETIME (you could have shown up as a cockroach ya kno) to shape my OWN life and be whoever I DARE DREAM TO BE --- how about I ask you for more and more shit every night? PLEASE God, in addition to giving me life as the most marvelous of all yoru creation, I'm gonna need you to help me w/ a job in that said life - I'm gonna need you to help me pass this test at school so I can make more money - I'm gonna need you to help me get this loan Lord so I can buy shit. Oh - and Lord, I'm the most advanced and capable of all of your creations but PLEASE think for me too so I don't have to do it on my own." SAVE IT!!! If there is a God, she set things in motion for us to EXIST and for us as people to figure the rest out on our own - and we as a people are failing miserably at that. Falling on your knees praying for God to help your neighbor when YOU are your neighbors neighbor - NOT God. If there is a God she is probably disappointed about thumpers asking for "help" for things that she has given you all the power to change on your own. I see it all the time when people pray... "God please help those that are less fortunate than we are.", then you get up and throw away half a plate of food b/c it didn't taste right. YOU HELP THOSE PEOPLE!! Stop playing yourself short and give yourself more credit sirs. People have missed the whole ship and it's disgusting.

PLEASE show me where I said I hate Christianity. I'd like to see that... and again, God has never let me down. I EXIST - that is fine for me and is enough for me. Don't try to see me man, that's too tall of an order for you --- trust me. Stick w/ what you think you know.

i lol'd...really i did.

[BABY J]

actually no. I've learned people who brag about their I.Q. usually have little. Again, I laugh at you making fun of how marketable my wife is, or our life situation when really you have no idea. I would say all around you're just ignorant.

Okay, well since you OBVIOUSLY are having problems comprehending my posts I will break it down for you since you are arguing with yourself. LOL. My post simply means that in my view, even if you/your wife DIDN'T pray, you would still have the same offers that you have than if you did. THAT is what I am trying to get you to see and understand. THAT is why I said I didn't pray, yet still didn't have an issue that your wife did. (by the way, I am not laughing at that --> being out of work is not something I wish on any1 and I'm glad she's got the ball rolling in her favor). You obv feel that I attacked you/her and that was NOT the case at all. Me saying that I made myself marketable for the offers I get, is saying that YOUR WIFE did the same (not God). God did not take time out Her existance to blow magic dust on the hiring managers to show your wife any favor.

You obv don't understand... so let me help you out. Imagine it this way. Your wife (a believer) gets hired... and because of that a pre-existing employee Suzy Smith (a believer) gets fired b/c of your wife coming on-board. Suzy has been praying (to the same God that you and your wife are praying to) that she keeps her job w/ all of the new hires coming on-board, but gets fired anyway. What makes your wife more special in a God's eye than Suzy? Why does God choose to bless you an danswer yoru prayers, yet not answer Suzie's sincere prayer to remain in her position as well?

[creman]

You do make me smile. I'll give you that.

[BABY J]

i lol'd...really i did.

Don't laugh --- Creman says that laughing is hostile.

[creman]

Don't laugh --- Creman says that laughing is hostile.

I'm sorry, I assumed you wouldn't need this considering you're so smart, and a self proclaimed genius.

Hostile \Hos"tile\, a. [L. hostilis, from hostis enemy: cf. F. hostile. See Host an army.]

Belonging or appropriate to an enemy; showing the disposition of an enemy; showing ill will and malevolence, or a desire to thwart and injure; occupied by an enemy or enemies; inimical; unfriendly; as, a hostile force; hostile intentions; a hostile country; hostile to a sudden change.

Syn: Warlike; inimical; unfriendly; antagonistic; opposed; adverse; opposite; contrary; repugnant.

I highlighted the ones that apply, to make it easier for you because obviously you're not as smart as you claim.

The funny thing is I just wanted a civil conversation, but you obviously can't do that so really there is no point in this being continued. I really do wish you luck in life, and despite that you may hate this I'm going to pray for you. good luck man, and I hope you find happiness. true happiness.

[BABY J]

These 2 quotes were directed at Creman earlier in the thread:

I don't need your repsonse... at the end of the day your stance boils down to "you gotta have faith" when you're cornered or questioned. I undertand --- trust that. And as far as hate... I don't have the "stuff" required to hate any1... that's not a part of my DNA.

Good luck sir. Respect.

Angry? When and where? In fact I am laughing at you - not angry at all. I have never been hostile towards anyones beliefs - that's what the religious wars are/were about. I've always said that I'm all about people being who they wanna be. But they laughed at Jesus --- so WHO ARE YOU? You think you get a free ride? NOT.

I believe in me. PERIOD. As I said --- respect.

and this was directed to Geoff:

That's b/c I don't disrespect your view even though I don't agree with it. LOL - did you find it funny that I made a gender reference to God being a "She" and a "her"? I did.

I can SOOOO see how hostile I am. It's pathetic.

And yes Creman I am very happy in life. Why would I hate the fact that you pray for me? I'm the grandson of a preacher and come from a religious family --- I'm used to it. In fact, I get more prayer than anything else from my family - lol. I can dig it - although it won't help me IMO, it def won't hurt anything. And if it makes my family feel better to pray for me when they pray I wouldn't take that sense of satisfaction from them just to be an ass.

I wish you the best and I hope that you live this life as it's the only life that you have - and I hope that you can make moves to move mountains in your life instead of waiting for "something" to move them for you.

No hard feelings I hope - the yard that we all live in on Earth is too small to waste time fighting in . All I ask from people is to think a little bit and don't downplay your OWN strengths that you have been given. IMO we weren't given the most advaced brains on the planet to disregard it and zombie out for 4 minutes at night w/ it idling while whispering to Mr. Invisible.

[geoff]

baby j i gotta give it to you man...you sure stay with your beliefs and have yet to let emotion get a hold of you. you are a master debator...no pun intended. but on a serious note. creman you my friend let your emotions get a hold of you. i am happy you found God and He has answered you but you have to understand that Jesus Himself said that we would be hated for His names sake. not saying baby j hates you.

and babyj the funny thing is that God doesnt just give anything to anyone. He wiill open the door for you and it is then up to you to use the stregnth you have to complete it.

[BABY J]

and babyj the funny thing is that God doesnt just give anything to anyone. He wiill open the door for you and it is then up to you to use the stregnth you have to complete it.

My guess is that God simply made all of the door openable. I don't think that (if there was a God) that She would show you the door - nor open it. She has just made this life where there are lots of doors - and that it's TOTALLY up to you/us to open those doors and walk through them. Too many times I see people w/ their hands up waiting for a hand out, totally disregarding the brainpower and control (I think you call it free-will) that God has given us in that life. But that's my raggedy ass opinion - who asked me.

+1 to Choi, Geoff, Sport, and Creman for standing by your convictions as well. This is never a personal debate - I'm never attacking who you are or your familes... I'm not that guy. Just getting my flavor of kool-aid out there on the table and you can drink all of it, some of it, or you can leave it and drink none of it. I hope there is never any respect lost as people behind these debates. I do learn something every time that a few of you post... if that wasn't the case then I'd never chime in on these subjects. It's all love.

J'son

[quickdodge®]

wait, so you can believe in alien races that we have no proof of, but then scoff at the idea of God? Irony at it's best I suppose.

Irony? Really? We have much more proof of aliens than we do of God. In fact, I don't know of ANY proof that God exists. Later, QD.