The CVCC (or Controlled Vortex Combustion Chamber) engine debuted in 1975. Offered alongside the standard Civic engine, the 53-horsepower CVCC engine displaced 1,488 cc and had a head design that promoted cleaner, more efficient combustion.Originally Posted by quickdodgeŽ
Just a little something to think about...the bible was written forever ago...it says that God sent his only son...and the bible cleary states events that are to come and they are happening now!! Who can predict the future like that??? God is real!!
it was written forever ago..lolol
The so called prophecies that ppl seem to think are coming true are written so vaguely that there is no way to determine if it was actually talking about specific incidences or not...
Try getting out of your little self determined life and read outside of the box...its pretty simple...no offense
Hey, you should come over to my house. I'm having a kool-aid party...
No. IMO, religion and believing in a God or a superior being is for pathetic people that need something to believe in. It helps them get through there life because they have faith in something after life. This is it. Instead of people living their life and enjoying it while they are here, they focus on that there is something greater than them. As said before, it is for people that need to believe in something. IMO, the world would be a much better place if religion did not exist. There are too many horrible things in this world that are there because of religion. On top of this, none of it makes any sense...unless you believe. Because you have to have faith to overlook all the BS. I went to church when I was young and loved how every religion think they have it right. I heard a ministor/preacher say one time that only a few Jews will get into heaven. However, they are God's chosen people...hmm, makes a lot of sense to me. Simply put, you are a sheep if you honestly think that there is a "superior being" up there pulling strings. Or if you believe in a Bible that was written over 1800 years. Do you honestly think this is the word of Christ? 1800 years later and some guy can get it right? Give me a break. Overall, it is very sad.
BTW...as far as the "predictions" anyone can say vague preditions and then wait to see if they happens thousands of years later. Once again, this is something that you have convinced yourself is true so that it can support your belief in something that clearly does not exist.
Wait..what???????? lol
Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion...I However know that God is real and will not second guess him or denounce him. That is one thing I highly am against. God has shown my too many things in life to turn on him and I am personally scared to death of hell...I can't speak for your preacher or whatever you heard. You have to read the bible and determine what you take it as. But this world is only getting worse and what I read in the bible and determine it as comes true so I believe
Oh, sorry.. I thought you like to drink the Kool-Aid.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...k+the+kool-aid
I too believe that everyone should have there own opinion. If I had children, I would allow them to choose to believe in it or not. I simply do not.
With that being said...how do you know God is real? Your only claim that because good things happen to you. That is sad that it is what is helping you hold onto your faith. What about the millions of people that believe and good things do not happen to them? Is God only looking after you? Millions of people die including children that do not even have a chance to believe, but there is a God because you have had good things happen in your life. Get real. Good and bad things happen to all of us. I overall have 90% of good things happen to me and I flat out say there is NO GOD...period. In your mind, when something good happens, you chalk it up to God. That is it. Just like I can chalk it up to being a good person, being successful, doing the right thing, or just plain ass luck. So everytime you chalk something up to God, remember all the people just like you that believe and it doesn't happen to them. Oh right, it is all in God's plan...right? That is the only answer religious people can fall back on when their logic makes no sense. Sad, very sad.
BTW, as far as the "preacher"...that was just an example. I have been to several churches and have been around plenty of religious people. My opinion comes from the complete bullshit that is religion. I simply had a mind of my own and can see that it is BS.
Also, it sounds like you also believe because you are scared of hell.
Well if you want to make sense of my post then you need to read what it is reference to and the statements that I was replying to.
For anyone who says they don't believe in something "just because someone says so" or "they only believe what is proven by science" then they are leaving out the very REAL part of the equation.
The person who taught you that the sun was "a ball of fire" or the person who told you that red was red. You don't just KNOW unless you have some sort of knowledge on the subject that is taught and explained to you. If and when, you have kids lock them in a room with a book and they will not learn how to read. They have to be taught by someone, or something.
also in reply to the previous post
Nobody on this thread has original knowledge, and nobody on this thread is saying anything that has not been said before. So nobody on this thread can truthfully say that they learned everything and explain everything completely based on their own learning or logic. Someone else wrote the book, someone else laid the foundations for the research so we are all subject to opinions based on someone else.
So, how do you define logic? Lots of people have used the word, but by its very definition it is subjective. What is logic to you may not be logic to me. If that is the case how can you justify, YOUR logic as correct in comparison to someone else?
That in and of itself puts the burden of proof on both parties. Just as many theists struggle to understand and verbalize their reasons for believing in God, the non-theist also cannot prove the lack of existence of God. In all of the experience you have had, and all of the things you have known, your opinion remains subjective and personalized without the ability to prove.
The arguments that people have given so far are just mirrors of the reasons that theists give for believing in God. So what makes your argument or your stance better?
Last edited by sport_122; 05-03-2009 at 10:38 PM.
How do you know air is real?? I dont have to have something physical in my face to believe it. I never said because good things happen to me I should believe in him. I have bad things happen to me all the time but it is my faith in God that gets me through. Everything happens for a reason
This is just fail all over. As stated in the two posts by me, it is my opinion based on my own logic. All posts in this thread and throughout the world is based on that. We use our own experience and beliefs to determine what we believe and not believe in life. That is COMMON SENSE...so what are you trying to say?? What point are you trying to state?? Epic Fail
Okay as I said before...its an oppinion. If you have to try to put me down to make yourself feel better cool...no worries here. I believe in God and I believe I will have a wonderful life forever. I'm sorry that you don't believe like I do.
Yes, back to the "God's Plan" answer. So 18 y/o soldiers that get limbs blown off happened for a reason. It simply happened.
And remember, the bad things are because of the Devil.
Yea it did happen for a reason. You never know why things happen and it is not up to you to decide that. I mean don't you think I wonder why things happen...I attended a funeral friday for a good friend of mine and watched his little boy cry his eyes out and I was wondering why he was taken...but thats not for me to decided why or if its right or wrong...there is a greater plan in all that happens so I am happy that he is beyond all the pain and hurt in this world and excited to see God's plan instead of questioning God
As far as me feeling "cool"...that has nothing to do with it. Just giving you examples of things that happen to others. I personally could care less what someone believes. It is their life and up to them. Just thought I would have to have some fun amd punch holes in your story since you responded to my post.
okay......
My point is:
If you believe that all experiences are based off of personal belief (as you said) then you would NOT try to flame people for having a different perspective than yours because you would have to also agree that you have NOT had their personal experience.
The theist would not be weak minded (as you portray) , and THEIR logic would be a suitable enough reason for them to believe in God. But you make statements like "I simply had a mind of my own and can see that it is BS."
So explain your logic to me, when you say that its up to the person, but the people that believe in religion are BS. You have just admitted to not understanding their logic, but at the same time you tell them it is wrong? That is illogical to me. For us car guys, its like someone hearing your turbo or blow of valve and telling you something is wrong with the engine. They make a statement out of ignorance to the subject.
YOU have said that YOUR opinion comes from YOUR experience, but when the same argument is given from the other side, ALL of a sudden its not good enough.
So maybe you did make the same point as I, but then you proved that your own way of thinking is subject to the same criticism that you made against the other side.
SO as a person who believes in an eternal God who reveals himself to us in many different ways. My reason for believing in God is because great things have happened in my life, I have had experiences that I would define as supernatural, and because I drink the cool aid and it tastes OH so good. I am not a believer because I fear hell, I am a believer because I embrace heaven.
As someone who claims that its a personal opinion then that should be more than enough for you...
of course that is if you in fact do say that belief is subjective. If it is then it cannot be wrong to you. If it is not, then you need to realize that it is no longer subjective which means their is a universal truth somewhere. And you cannot define a universal truth if you are going to ignore the existence of an eternal, and that is why I believe that logic is grounded in the eternal through the revelation (or advancement of understanding) of our universe.
I surely hope you have something better to say than EPIC FAIL, because for a person who claims that believers are BS you should have a much better reason, than the ones you have given that are only based on your experience, because I believe mine to be universal to everyone who has ever functioned on this planet.
No one knew any of those examples at one point. Since, as you stated, no one has original knowledge, these had to be learned...they are more than just bits of information passed on. If all of that information was wiped from mankind, I am confident that it would be discovered again. Why? There is physical proof.
It can be very easily proven... What if I farted in your mouth? Would you believe in it then? If you can't even comprehend the 3 states of matter, procreation should be a no no..
Makes sense..
Yeah, when I flip coins I often ponder the significance between God's plan and the resultant.
Last edited by _Christian_; 05-04-2009 at 12:32 AM. Reason: typo ocd fmtfl
Very very well stated!!
I believe I can fly.
28 . female . I has VTEC . hondachik .
S.I.C. Chic (Split Image Customs II)
I believe I can touch the sky.
i think about it every night and day
Wow, all that for little ole me?? LOL. I completely agree that I can't "flame" anyone because they are using the method to come up with their belief as I do. However, if you would read one of my earliar posts, you would see that the person in question getting "flamed" responded to my post first. When my post was stated several times IMO. So because that person responded to a post that required no response, they were also responded too. If you can't take having your reasoning criticized...then you are on the wrong board.
And now I will respond to your post since you have responded to me. Once again, you believe in God because great things have happened to you? So what about all the people that don't believe and still have all those great things happen? God can't be doing because we don't believe in God. What about all the believers that go through life without great things happening to them? What, their faith is not as strong as yours? Give me a break. Everytime something great happens to you, you automatically chalk it up to God. So, do you chalk up any bad things to the Devil? So yes, IMO that is very weak minded and nieve. Since I have great things happen to me almost everyday, I am now going to start saying it is because I do not believe God exists and life is rewarding me for not being so stupid.
i spread my wings and fly away !!!!
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it makes no difference what you do, do it as hard as you can for as long as you can and never give up - Devon Currie-rip-12/14/08
I believe I can soar.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
True. Oh so very true.
[/QUOTE]
I understand what you are saying. I will not argue with your experience.
But I will say this (it will sound strange to some, but these are my thoughts on why I believe that God is very real and very involved in human development)
I don't believe that the question of an existence of an eternal God is subjective. I think there are objective things in this world that point to God. Things that are not based on personal experience but can be viewed and understood universally even taking into consideration that everyone has different personal experience and still be agreed upon. Things like universal law (or moral codes), the methodology of advancement in knowledge and understanding, defining pain and joy, experiencing love.
I don't believe all of these things are immediately understood by us, but their very existence throughout time and throughout life is experienced the same and acknowledge the same regardless of age, race, nationality, career, religious preference, whether you are atheist, whether you are blind, smart, stupid, poor, or rich. I am not saying that these things are good or bad, but I am saying that when you write down on a piece of paper the words "I love you" or "I am hurting" any person can relate to those words. To me this proves that we are ALL tied together somehow because this language is not only human to human, its animal to human(our pets and the animal kingdom display hurt, and demonstrate love towards one another and us), its even plant to human(plants that whither or turn the wrong color at the wrong time can tell us that they are sick or in need of something). We can understand our world through some sort of universal language.
To me, this proves that there is a God. The very existence of universal emotion, and the very existence of the "ability" to reason and use logic (even though logic is experiential, the ability to understand and interpret it as a way of revelation of knowledge is universal) proves the existence of a greater power beyond what we want, experience, and feel. I believe this proves the very special nature of mankind in that we are the only ones to have the ability to use our understanding of this language to serve our planet and each other.
I believe in a constant revelation of the knowledge of God through reason and science. I believe that science and reason teach us that the universe is so vast that our growing knowledge of things demonstrates the eternal nature of knowledge in that we are beginning to realize that there is NO end to the questions that we ask when we begin to break things down. As said before every scientific study answers one questions and creates many more as science itself is only a subjective tool used to gain the understanding of the eternal concept of knowledge.
So my understanding of God is different from most. I don't take faith blindly because I do realize that men will twist the truth, some do it knowingly and some do it ignorantly, but there are always those things that are universal and can be understood to help us know the character of the eternal and live in obedience to that. I believe this is why the Bible is valid and truth to me. The book is not subjective. It teaches us the universal truths of our existence. Which is one of the reasons the writers could not take credit and would have given it to God. Because they believed what was written to be revelation, and they understood this as only having the possibility of coming from God. So he gets the credit. They were not crazy. They would have had to think really really hard about what they were going to say. And most of the things that are written were not written with the intent of being put with a collection and bound. Scripture is written as individual accounts of explaining those things that effect mankind universally.
I see me running through that open doo-o-o-oor.
There are plenty of non-religious philosophies that hold that you should treat others the way you want to be treated and value other people. Has nothing to do with "god" but has to do with it being a "universal truth." It is something that has allowed the human animal to continue to exist in a society.
Suggesting you have to be a Christian to have a sense of moral absolute, or that morality comes from the Christian God, is patently ridiculous. It absolutely ignores the majority of the world's population that manages to live a more peaceful and harmonious life than our Christian forebears and I maintain that's a superior "morality."
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
red is just a word created to associate your mind with that color
if the color red was named yellow it would still be there it would still look the same
i dont understand y u think that there is a reason to believe this is there or not because u can see it without a doubt
every time u look at the color red it is red, doesnt change
ok...so god created the world and all its creatures in seven days blah blah
what happened to the dinosaurs? there is PROOF they were here millions of years ago, but something wiped out every single one of them , then all of a sudden at a random interval in time a guy wrote the bible explaining everything that supposedly happened creating the world and such. where did he receive his facts? did god just beam down one day and say hey guy this happened write it down and tell everyone about it
that is the problem with religion you can never prove that god is there
i can prove the sun is there i can prove we have gravity i can prove the color red is red
and answer me this question if god created us then who created god?
where does he fit in to this whole scheme?
people say god has to be there, or how else would we be here, if god is real someone would have had to of created him
again christians prove me wrong,
red is just a word created to associate your mind with that color
if the color red was named yellow it would still be there it would still look the same
i dont understand y u think that there is a reason to believe this is there or not because u can see it without a doubt
every time u look at the color red it is red, doesnt change
ok...so god created the world and all its creatures in seven days blah blah
what happened to the dinosaurs? there is PROOF they were here millions of years ago, but something wiped out every single one of them , then all of a sudden at a random interval in time a guy wrote the bible explaining everything that supposedly happened creating the world and such. where did he receive his facts? did god just beam down one day and say hey guy this happened write it down and tell everyone about it
that is the problem with religion you can never prove that god is there
i can prove the sun is there i can prove we have gravity i can prove the color red is red
and answer me this question if god created us then who created god?
where does he fit in to this whole scheme?
people say god has to be there, or how else would we be here, if god is real someone would have had to of created him
again christians prove me wrong,
I never said anything about God creating the world in seven days. I also think you should learn about the bible before you assume it was written by some guy. The bible was not written by some guy and I am not arguing the Bible. Just the complete randomness of that statement.
You need to separate religion from God, because not all religions believe in a God. There is a difference.
If your questions are about religion then you can't get an answer and even if you did, whoever gave it to you cannot prove their answer? Creation accounts are about religion. They are just as grounded in faith and no good proof as science. With your same series of questions someone could say How was the earth created? The big bang (which just like creation theories, is completely excepted in the scientific communities)? Well who set the Big band off? Who can give us proof that this is happening? Where does life come from? A bolt of electricity? Well why can't that be reproduced in a lab? None of these questions can be answered with 100% certainty, therefore there is always going to be a faith aspect of science, just like religion.
Seeing as how this thread is about believing in God (which doesn't have to do with religion because there are people who believe in God and don't involve themselves in any religion), you will have to read what i have already written to see WHY I believe in God and the reasons I give that are not because of the bible or because someone told me so.
Even in science the discussion for big bang theorists states that all matter that is around now has been in existence, where does it come from? Who put it there? Why did it all of a sudden start moving around and reacting with itself? This is why some schools are teaching intelligent design along side things like evolution and big bang theory, because our universe has properties to it that go beyond what we can even try to understand. But seeing as how most people don't even read what is previously posted I wouldn't expect you to go back and make arguments against my points either.
Just to play devil's advocate.red is just a word created to associate your mind with that color
if the color red was named yellow it would still be there it would still look the same
i dont understand y u think that there is a reason to believe this is there or not because u can see it without a doubt
every time u look at the color red it is red, doesnt change
ok...so god created the world and all its creatures in seven days blah blah
what happened to the dinosaurs? there is PROOF they were here millions of years ago, but something wiped out every single one of them , then all of a sudden at a random interval in time a guy wrote the bible explaining everything that supposedly happened creating the world and such. where did he receive his facts? did god just beam down one day and say hey guy this happened write it down and tell everyone about it
that is the problem with religion you can never prove that god is there
i can prove the sun is there i can prove we have gravity i can prove the color red is red
and answer me this question if god created us then who created god?
where does he fit in to this whole scheme?
people say god has to be there, or how else would we be here, if god is real someone would have had to of created him
again christians prove me wrong,
I am an Atheist. But you are taking things way too literally.
No where in the bible does it show a chronological chart of the time frame in a day.
remember, those who believe in "god" believe he has been around since the beginnning of time. a lifetime for us would be just a blink of an eye.
The idea we have of how long a day lasts was only established after creation.
So logically, a day for "the almighty" could have been millions of years.
almost long enough for dinosaurs
And "Some guy" didn't right about creation. The Torah, as it is known (the first 5 books of the bible) were written by Moses. Christianity is not the only faith that uses the Torah and the same facts seem to be the standard there.
And who said "god" beamed anything? 2 Timothy, Chapter 3, Verse 16 states that, "all word is God-breathed"
No one would have created God.
Now can we stop asking the naive questions....
I'm just that guy that spends all his time printing.... T-shirts, banners, vinyl, etc.
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary.... that's what gets you"
Allah is the creator of everything.
I find it funny that christians have like a new bible every year. WTH. book is not supposed to change. And i find funny that same religion beleive that jesus might be the god, or son of god, or.....lol you guys need to make up ur mind.
Many parts of christianity, including the "son of god" are astrological personifications..
The reason why there are os many different versions of the bible is because ppl interpret the meanings of the bible differently. The bible is very vague, and shouldn't be taken seriously, but if it helps you sleep at night to each his own
in many cases I agree with this. I have come across faiths that use distorted versions of the bible as well, but that is why its important for people to understand the bible based on the cultural history around it and the original languages. There are resources out there that people who want to study the bible can use to get the original greek and hebrew that all versions of the bible should be translated from. Sadly there are people out there who just paraphrase the texts and we also have a problem with our language not being as definitive as greek or hebrew. For instance when we write the word love its just love. They have several different words that describe specific types of love and our language doesn't do that so there are many specific meanings that get lost in translation.
So in closing arguements...the bible is full of crap and fake. Respectively speaking.
the bible does teach good values and morals. But to live one's life by it....
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