"Christians" Look Here - Questions & Answers

[Ran]

You'd be surprised to see that most of the Christian congregations are full of crap these days. Mindless taking in whatever spew is thrown at them from their preachers. Did you know that almost all of your protestant "beliefs" are misguided? Some examples...


1) The "Trinity" (the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same) is NOT in the Bible. There are completely seperate.

2) Christmas is a pagan religion and NOT condoned by God or the Bible. Same for Easter. If you celebrate these holidays, then you are defying God's commandment to not associate him with them. Good job.

3) Unless you are one of the 144,000 chosen by God, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HEAVEN. Those with salvation will inherit the New Earth after the great tribulation and armageddon. No wings, halos, or pearly gates. Sorry.

4) There is no "Hell" with eternal suffering. There is only eternal destruction. Which is yet another way how God is merciful if you think about it.

5) The Passover (bread and wine) IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. It's for the select 144,000 that will inherit the kingdom and reign with Jesus. That's why the original ceremony was held in private amongst Jesus and his diciples and not amongst the masses. Look it up.

6) God's name is Jehovah, not "God". It appears in the Bible over 100 times. Hence why you have "Jehovah's Witnesses". It makes sense.


I can back up any of these with scriptural reference if you'd like later. If you have other questions, ask and I'll answer.

Also, for the record, I'm pretty much agnostic with christian tendencies due to upbringing. I'm not an atheist trying to bash you.

[Killer]

you should always post the scripture for reference with things like this....

as for easter and christmas... yeah, you are exactly right on they are pagan holidays... some priest or roman catholic "leader" of some sort (i don't remember who) decided to start having christmas and easter on whatever those pagan holidays were so that it would look and appear like "everyone" was celebrating christ... (i could be a bit off on this... but i know i'm pretty close to the reasoning)

most christians know this.... if not they def need to...

but you've also gotta remember... those pagan holidays are kinda long gone and forgotten about... the days that everyone celebrate christmas and easter now are just that... christmas and easter...

do you celebrate either of them????

if so... why??? your agnostic....

further more... if you do, and aren't celebrating them for what most christians do... are you going back to the paganistic(- is that even a word? lol) roots of the holidays yourself?....

no... you're just happy to have some time off work get some extra presents and what not...

i'd be more than willing to bet God is pretty pleased with the fact that christians/catholics.. turned what were once pagan holidays/rituals into two different days of the year that even non christians are basically forced to think about Him/Jesus......

[Ran]

you should always post the scripture for reference with things like this....

I'll get my books are post them up later.

do you celebrate either of them????

Yes, but for no real reason other than to get off work and swap gifts, eat food, ect... They hold no religious meaning to me. Also, since I'm agnostic, I don't have to claim them to be something they're not. If you're a real Christian, you shouldn't be celebrating them. End of story.

i'd be more than willing to bet God is pretty pleased with the fact that christians/catholics.. turned what were once pagan holidays/rituals into two different days of the year that even non christians are basically forced to think about Him/Jesus......

You think, but you'd be wrong. I'll try to find the scripture for you. God SPECIFICALLY says to NOT associate his name with pagan beliefs or religions. He tells you not to do something, but you do it anyway because you "think" it's the right thing to do if you slap a Jesus sticker on it? You'd still be wrong. The path to Hell (which doesn't exist BTW) is paved with good intentions.

[Killer]

I'll get my books are post them up later.

not that i don't know where you're going with this stuff.. but please do...

Yes, but for no real reason other than to get off work and swap gifts, eat food, ect... They hold no religious meaning to me. Also, since I'm agnostic, I don't have to claim them to be something they're not. If you're a real Christian, you shouldn't be celebrating them. End of story.

..... exactly i already stated this.... but with your reasoning the only reason you should celebrate these days is with the pagan beliefs... and if you don't believe in them you shouldn't celebrate them...

You think, but you'd be wrong. I'll try to find the scripture for you. God SPECIFICALLY says to NOT associate his name with pagan beliefs or religions. He tells you not to do something, but you do it anyway because you "think" it's the right thing to do if you slap a Jesus sticker on it. You'd still be wrong. The path to Hell is paved with good intentions.

it's in what ever book that speaks about moses and all that... it's even in the ten commandments... "not to worship idols" like the golden bull they made to "worship god" when moses went and spoke with god on the mountain and received the commandments.....

1. if you don't believe in God/The Bible, you interpretations mean nothing... because they are just that... your interpretations... you can't tell me or anyone else that they are wrong for what they are doing.. or going against God... how am i going against something if it "doesn't exist" to you.... ?????

2. Man was basically made to fail... God knows we're gonna screw up... and we're allowed to do so... People put christians on to high of a pedestal sometimes.... christians are made of flesh too... they aren't perfect... and only the ones pretending to be christians claim they are perfect...

so it makes perfect sense that we would "do something we're not supposed to" we're human!!!!

[Ran]

1. if you don't believe in God/The Bible, you interpretations mean nothing... because they are just that... your interpretations... you can't tell me or anyone else that they are wrong for what they are doing.. or going against God... how am i going against something if it "doesn't exist" to you.... ?????

Agnostic != Atheist

I believe in a God or higher power, I just believe that organized religion is hideously flawed. Primarily Christianity.

Also, I'm not giving you my "interpretation". There is no "interpretation" to be made. I'm giving you what is written in your very own Bible. Unless you follow that BS King James Version with Unicorns.

And yes, I can tell some that they're wrong if their own book tells them that they're wrong but they're too stupid to read for themselves. I don't have to share beliefs with someone to know that what they're doing is wrong. The show me their ignorance everyday.

2. Man was basically made to fail... God knows we're gonna screw up... and we're allowed to do so... People put christians on to high of a pedestal sometimes.... christians are made of flesh too... they aren't perfect... and only the ones pretending to be christians claim they are perfect...

so it makes perfect sense that we would "do something we're not supposed to" we're human!!!!

I never said otherwise. But it's funny how all of these protestant religions (Baptist, Presbyterian, Catholic [ROFL], ect...) claim to have the answers but most of them don't understand it themselves. So in turn, they take their own flawed information and fool other people into false and misguided beliefs. I'm sure that makes God happy, right?

Sorry Killer, but your counter argument is weak at best. I'm not claiming to be perfect or anything of the sort. I'm only looking to correct the so-called "christians" on this site about THEIR OWN BELIEFS WITH THEIR OWN BIBLE. In essence, you could say that I'm doing them a favor.

[Killer]

Agnostic != Atheist

I believe in a God or higher power, I just believe that organized religion is hideously flawed. Primarily Christianity.

Also, I'm not giving you my "interpretation". There is no "interpretation" to be made. I'm giving you what is written in your very own Bible. Unless you follow that BS King James Version with Unicorns.

And yes, I can tell some that they're wrong if their own book tells them that they're wrong but they're too stupid to read for themselves. I don't have to share beliefs with someone to know that what they're doing is wrong. The show me their ignorance everyday.

I never said otherwise. But it's funny how all of these protestant religions (Baptist, Presbyterian, Catholic [ROFL], ect...) claim to have the answers but most of them don't understand it themselves. So in turn, they take their own flawed information and fool other people into false and misguided beliefs. I'm sure that makes God happy, right?

Sorry Killer, but your counter argument is weak at best. I'm not claiming to be perfect or anything of the sort. I'm only looking to correct the so-called "christians" on this site about THEIR OWN BELIEFS WITH THEIR OWN BIBLE. In essence, you could say that I'm doing them a favor.

The Bible itself was written by man, has been translated by man, and every man has his own interpretation of "what means what" in the Bible... So even if you think my argument is "weak" I'm still right... You don't believe as we/they believe (i myself believe in a lot different way than what most christians do... so i'm kinda reluctant to include myself) there for even if it's in bold/and blatantly says "you shall not do this"... you still don't have the right to tell someone they are wrong for doing/believing/worshiping however they wish...

In my OPINION God convicts different people in different ways... just like i believe that Satan may tempt different people with different things....

















you know what just hit me...... in your original statement.... ???

1) The "Trinity" (the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same) is NOT in the Bible. There are completely seperate.

2) Christmas is a pagan religion and NOT condoned by God or the Bible. Same for Easter. If you celebrate these holidays, then you are defying God's commandment to not associate him with them. Good job.

If God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are not One....

Why can't we celebrate Jesus birthday/death on pagan holidays???

YOUR argument contradicts itself.........

[ShooterMcGavin]

I believe in a God or higher power, I just believe that organized religion is hideously flawed. Primarily Christianity.

if that's true then Ran != Agnostic

[Lucky DAWG]

you should always post the scripture for reference with things like this....

as for easter and christmas... yeah, you are exactly right on they are pagan holidays... some priest or roman catholic "leader" of some sort (i don't remember who) decided to start having christmas and easter on whatever those pagan holidays were so that it would look and appear like "everyone" was celebrating christ... (i could be a bit off on this... but i know i'm pretty close to the reasoning)

most christians know this.... if not they def need to...

but you've also gotta remember... those pagan holidays are kinda long gone and forgotten about... the days that everyone celebrate christmas and easter now are just that... christmas and easter...

do you celebrate either of them????

if so... why??? your agnostic....

further more... if you do, and aren't celebrating them for what most christians do... are you going back to the paganistic(- is that even a word? lol) roots of the holidays yourself?....

no... you're just happy to have some time off work get some extra presents and what not...

i'd be more than willing to bet God is pretty pleased with the fact that christians/catholics.. turned what were once pagan holidays/rituals into two different days of the year that even non christians are basically forced to think about Him/Jesus......

That really bothers me.



Catholicism was the first widely organized Denomination of Christianity. Why would you put Christianity then slash Catholicism as if they were two seperate things?




I have no problem with other religions but if that is going to be necessary at all it would be Christians / Prodestant, or Christians / Methodists etc.


I don't know why other Denominations of Christianity feel the need to label us otherwise, we are all the same with different views and opinions that use the same book and same core values. Thats my , i'm just very offended when people refer to me as something other then a Christian.

[Ran]

Catholicism was the first widely organized Denomination of Christianity. Why would you put Christianity then slash Catholicism as if they were two seperate things?

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

I don't know why other Denominations of Christianity feel the need to label us otherwise, we are all the same with different views and opinions that use the same book and same core values. Thats my , i'm just very offended when people refer to me as something other then a Christian.

The initial core values being the 10 Commandments, then yes they are shared. But that's about where it ends. Extravagant ceremony, material focus, baptising babies, saints? The list of differences is endless. You're guaranteed to find fewer differences between Baptism, Presbyterian, and other protestant religions then you would between them and Catholicism. Hell, Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

[Blitanicle99]

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

The initial core values being the 10 Commandments, then yes they are shared. But that's about where it ends. Extravagant ceremony, material focus, baptising babies, saints? The list of differences is endless. You're guaranteed to find fewer differences between Baptism, Presbyterian, and other protestant religions then you would between them and Catholicism. Hell, Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

As I said before, you really have to look past all that. Its completely different than looking at facts and numbers.

[Ran]

As I said before, you really have to look past all that. Its completely different than looking at facts and numbers.

What? I don't get what you're saying here. Look past what? The religion?

[Lucky DAWG]

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

The initial core values being the 10 Commandments, then yes they are shared. But that's about where it ends. Extravagant ceremony, material focus, baptising babies, saints? The list of differences is endless. You're guaranteed to find fewer differences between Baptism, Presbyterian, and other protestant religions then you would between them and Catholicism. Hell, Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

No the initial core values being the Bible.


Ran you have honestly no ****ing idea what you are talking about. Its actually offensive to think that you do and to generalize it like so.


So corrupted? Yes back in the medieval and dark ages the church asked for money to save you from time in purgatory. And yes there has been bad men in the church of recent years with the molestation scandals.

To say no other religion has had scandels would be completely blasphemous. And ofcourse you find less differences between the denominations what does that change about Catholicism being a Christian religion?



And where do you get off telling ME what WE think? Never once have i met a catholic that thought they were not christinas. My entire mom's side is from Ireland and everyone is Catholic there, so between them and being involved in the church here i know a lot of them. My dad's side is all baptist, i have been to both church's and the ideas and things talked about are nearly identical, the way church is handled though and the different ceremonies are different. Its the same core message that is handled a different way.



You are speaking out of pure ignorance and it is outright demeaning to my core beliefs. I really do not get where someone gets off telling me the wrongs of my religion... I have zero problems with Bhuddists, Muslims, or any other religion as long as they are faithful and attempt to good in their lives.




Think what you want on your own, but don't tell me what i believe is wrong.

[metalman]

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

Not only that, its highly spiritually corrupt in it's blasphemous rituals...nearly all of which are condemned in the Bible, and by the Christ it claims to follow. One of the most outrageous aspect of vatican notions is that a Creator God is bound to follow the descisions of sinful popes and men. Absurd.

Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

The church masquarades as christian by assuming christian names for its man-made rituals. The core doctrines/rituals of the church are not Biblical...nor are they according to any Biblical commandment, but contrary to them. The church re wrote the 10 Biblical commandments for its own 'bible' to reflect its own teachings.

Funny thing is, some so called 'protestant' churches follow right along with that nonsense. I have intently studied catholic books and texts that most most practicing catholics have not one ounce of knowlege of. I neither hate nor despise catholic people. I pity their ignorance. My own loved ones are catholic...and although highly schooled and intelligent in many ways, are highly ignorant and uninformed of Biblical teachings OR even the nonsense the church puts forth. This is typical. They follow blindly along...simply because thats 'tradition' and if any question comes up they rely on the priest/preacher/minister/guru/pope etc to answer it.

That summarizes most so called christian church groups...following tradition blindly, without any question...or open minded search and study. The Christ the churches claims to follow said this....
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"....."For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...."....."Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..."

[Lucky DAWG]

Not only that, its highly spiritually corrupt in it's blasphemous rituals...nearly all of which are condemned in the Bible, and by the Christ it claims to follow. One of the most outrageous aspect of vatican notions is that a Creator God is bound to follow the descisions of sinful popes and men. Absurd.



The church masquarades as christian by assuming christian names for its man-made rituals. The core doctrines/rituals of the church are not Biblical...nor are they according to any Biblical commandment, but contrary to them. The church re wrote the 10 Biblical commandments for its own 'bible' to reflect its own teachings.

Funny thing is, some so called 'protestant' churches follow right along with that nonsense. I have intently studied catholic books and texts that most most practicing catholics have not one ounce of knowlege of. I neither hate nor despise catholic people. I pity their ignorance. My own loved ones are catholic...and although highly schooled and intelligent in many ways, are highly ignorant and uninformed of Biblical teachings OR even the nonsense the church puts forth. This is typical. They follow blindly along...simply because thats 'tradition' and if any question comes up they rely on the priest/preacher/minister/guru/pope etc to answer it.

That summarizes most so called christian church groups...following tradition blindly, without any question...or open minded search and study. The Christ the churches claims to follow said this....
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"....."For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...."....."Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..."

you oversimply a lot.



and maybe tradition means something to us. And i thought following blindly along was the point of religion in general. Its called faith, and its something i have in my religion.




Do your own thing and stop dumping on other religions, i won't try and convert you, so you don't do the same to me.




I really don't understand why or how this turned into ****ting on other religions you deem as inferior to your own.

[kadabra]

I'll post up my two cents in alittle bit. This is going to get good...

[Kelly]

1) The "Trinity" (the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same) is NOT in the Bible. There are completely seperate.

The Bible teaches that there is only one God. (Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:6-8, Isaiah 45:22)

The Bibles teaches that there is one who is called the Father and is identified as being God. (1 Peter 1:2)

The Bible teaches that there is one who is called Jesus and is identified as being God. (John 1:1-3&14-18, John 20:28-29, 1 John 1:1-4&5:20, Philippians 2:5-8, Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 22:12-20)

The Bible teaches that there is one who is called the Holy Spirit and is identified as being God. (John 14:16-17, John 15:26, John 16:7-15, Acts 5:3-4, Acts 13:2, 1 Corinthians 12:4-18, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 10:15-18)

2) Christmas is a pagan religion and NOT condoned by God or the Bible. Same for Easter. If you celebrate these holidays, then you are defying God's commandment to not associate him with them. Good job.

What Colossians 2:16-17 forbids is the celebration of religious seasons or holy days when they have been prescribed as religious duty and necessary for holiness or spirituality.

In this passage, the Apostle is talking about the Old Testament festivals which were shadows of the person and work of Christ--but Christ has now come. To continue to celebrate them is to dishonor the fact of His coming, or to act as though He were not enough for salvation or spirituality. Note what the Apostle says, "let no one act as your judge in regard to . . ." He is saying don't let anyone tell you these things are requirements for fellowship with God. They were only shadows of the person and work of Christ, and He has not only come and fulfilled those shadows, but He is totally sufficient.

Colossians 2:16 and 17 in no way forbids believers from commemorating something such as the birth of Christ if it is done out of love, devotion, and the joy the season gives when used as a way of focusing on the Savior and not as a religious duty. The issue is not the observance, but the reason, the attitudes and the spirit in which it is done.

Furthermore, I believe there is scriptural precedent for commemorating and remembering the birth of Christ. This is in keeping with the events that occurred around the time of Christ's birth These include:

1. The appearance of the angel of the Lord with the glory of the Lord to announce the birth of Christ to the shepherds (Lk. 2:10-12).

2. The response of the angels at the announcement of Christ's birth (Lk. 2:13-14).

3. The actions of the shepherds who left their flocks to go and see which was nothing short of a celebration (Lk. 2:15-20).

4. And the arrival of the men from the east bearing gifts as much as a year to two years later (Matt. 2:1-12).

There is, of course, the New Testament precedent for believers meeting together on Sunday. In essence this is a celebration of the Lord's resurrection. The early church automatically did this, but Scripture does not command us to do so. In fact, the early church at first met daily and took the Lord's Supper daily, but we don't do that today. Why not? Because these are not binding. We are not under the Law. Believers meet on Sunday because of its significance and because the early church set a precedent for it, but it was never commanded in the Bible. Believers did it out of love and adoration for the risen Savior.

The point is this: If the early church could celebrate the resurrection without a specific command from God, only the spirit of legalism or the letter of the law would forbid the celebration of Christ's birth as a special season of joy and adoration. Ultimately, the issue is not the season, its the attitude and reason behind it and the distortion of it. Let's not throw out the baby with the wash.

3) Unless you are one of the 144,000 chosen by God, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HEAVEN. Those with salvation will inherit the New Earth after the great tribulation and armageddon. No wings, halos, or pearly gates. Sorry.

Beloved, we simply do not know exactly how many will be in heaven. However, all who obey Jesus will be saved, whatever the total number (Heb. 5: 9).

4) There is no "Hell" with eternal suffering. There is only eternal destruction. Which is yet another way how God is merciful if you think about it.

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 18:7-9 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:40-42 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter)
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Jude 1:6-8 (in Context) Jude 1 (Whole Chapter)

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:21-23 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matthew 5:29-31 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:27-29 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:8-10 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:15
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Matthew 23:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:33
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matthew 23:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Mark 9:42-44 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
Mark 9:44-46 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell

5) The Passover (bread and wine) IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. It's for the select 144,000 that will inherit the kingdom and reign with Jesus. That's why the original ceremony was held in private amongst Jesus and his diciples and not amongst the masses. Look it up.

We take Communion- the bread is in remembrance of his body that was broken and abused for us... the grape juice is in remembrance of the blood he shed.

6) God's name is Jehovah, not "God". It appears in the Bible over 100 times. Hence why you have "Jehovah's Witnesses". It makes sense.

God has many many names in the Bible
http://ldolphin.org/Names.html



Yeah, I did google some things- don't have the time to write out every verse.
Forgive me...

Is the Bible contradicting, yes... Why? I have no idea... It's all based on faith.

[JDMEK18]

Quote: 2. People put christians on to high of a pedestal sometimes.... christians are made of flesh too... they aren't perfect... and only the ones pretending to be christians claim they are perfect...

so it makes perfect sense that we would "do something we're not supposed to" we're human!!!!


I agree with you 100% - I'm a Christian (def. not a perfect person) if i were then i wouldn't need what makes me a Christian = Jesus!!

Friendly mentioning... (to the creator of the forum - I'm not passive but I am respectful so everything i write please rec' it as conversation and not battling you) I'm sure you could point out some stuff to us that we might of over looked in the bible but is it in its true context?

Quote: 1) The "Trinity" (the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same) is NOT in the Bible. There are completely seperate.

Trust me, All bible readers know that the word trinity is not in the bible.. its a created word to represent the 3 in 1 (Father,Son,HolySpirit) ... we would have to talk in depth to explain this but its kind of like and egg (Shell,White,Yoke) They are all 1 item. Maybe that helps..

Quote: 3) Unless you are one of the 144,000 chosen by God, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HEAVEN. Those with salvation will inherit the New Earth after the great tribulation and armageddon. No wings, halos, or pearly gates. Sorry.

I would like for you to be more specific with this.. The bible does talk about a new heaven and new earth but, it mentions nothing about us not being in God's presence whether thats us all walking around with God, Jesus, etc.. in heaven or if its like in the Garden when "God walked with Adam" , who knows? I have never read anything extremely clear with extreme description as to what life after "Christ Return" will be like... This i do know - that the bible talks about seperation from Him (Hell, lake of fire, etc.. for those that don't believe and he talks about the place that Jesus is going to prepare for those that believe in him.. What ever the fine details are, I want to be in the place that gives me eternal life with HIM!!

[Kelly]

I would like for you to be more specific with this.. The bible does talk about a new heaven and new earth but, it mentions nothing about us not being in God's presence whether thats us all walking around with God, Jesus, etc.. in heaven or if its like in the Garden when "God walked with Adam" , who knows? I have never read anything extremely clear with extreme description as to what life after "Christ Return" will be like... This i do know - that the bible talks about seperation from Him (Hell, lake of fire, etc.. for those that don't believe and he talks about the place that Jesus is going to prepare for those that believe in him.. What ever the fine details are, I want to be in the place that gives me eternal life with HIM!!

It's in Revelations:

The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

Again with Faith...

[JDMEK18]

It's in Revelations:

The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

Again with Faith...

Yeah.. I've read this before but i don't know where he is getting that they are the only ones going to "HEAVEN" (Thanks for pointing this out though!)

[Kelly]

Yeah.. I've read this before but i don't know where he is getting that they are the only ones going to "HEAVEN" (Thanks for pointing this out though!)

I need to read more into... Gotta love Revelations The part where we win!

Seems like this may be who fights during the Tribulation- the 3 year period where God is totally NOT PRESENT on Earth. After the Rapture...

Step 1- The dead in Christ shall rise 1st
Step 2- We get raptured
Step 3- "The Tribulation"- People on Earth have their second chance and for 3 years get to decide if they are gonna believe in God this time. Tough choice since God will not be present on Earth. It's hard enough now, when we get to feel Him in a church service every now and then. Not to mention the fact that you will be martered if you believe. I think I'll stick it out the first time- much easier .
Step 4- Those who don't believe get condemned to Hell, then God brings Heaven down to Earth... Eternally... Woo!

Probably won't happen exactly that way, but

[Ran]

Step 4- Those who don't believe get condemned to Hell, then God brings Heaven down to Earth... Eternally... Woo!

Wrong. No Hell. Please read into it. There is NO HELL FOR US. It specifically says "eternal destruction". No fire, no brimstone, no eternal suffering. DESTRUCTION. NON EXISTING.

Man, I wish I had my Bible and study guides on me.

[Ran]

The Bible teaches that there is only one God. (Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:6-8, Isaiah 45:22)

The Bibles teaches that there is one who is called the Father and is identified as being God. (1 Peter 1:2)

The Bible teaches that there is one who is called Jesus and is identified as being God. (John 1:1-3&14-18, John 20:28-29, 1 John 1:1-4&5:20, Philippians 2:5-8, Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 22:12-20)

1 John 1:15 - John told the truth about him when he cried out, "This is the person about whom I said, 'The one who comes after me ranks higher than me, because he existed before me.'"

Philippians 2-6: In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He existed in the beginning with God. Through him all things were made, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.

The Bible teaches that there is one who is called the Holy Spirit and is identified as being God. (John 14:16-17, John 15:26, John 16:7-15, Acts 5:3-4, Acts 13:2, 1 Corinthians 12:4-18, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 10:15-18)

John 15:26 - "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who comes from the Father, he will testify on my behalf."

Conclusion: THERE IS NO TRINITY

Also, your quotes about "eternal fire" are mistranslated. The original text reads "Gehenna" which was a firey wastepit in which things and bodies were discarded in. However, the people are already dead and no longer "existing" upon being thrust into the fire. The terms "Hell" and eternal suffering weren't applied until much later.

The Bible itself was written by man, has been translated by man, and every man has his own interpretation of "what means what" in the Bible... So even if you think my argument is "weak" I'm still right... You don't believe as we/they believe (i myself believe in a lot different way than what most christians do... so i'm kinda reluctant to include myself) there for even if it's in bold/and blatantly says "you shall not do this"... you still don't have the right to tell someone they are wrong for doing/believing/worshiping however they wish...

So you Christians can pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow and which not to? Awesome.

If God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are not One....

Why can't we celebrate Jesus birthday/death on pagan holidays???

YOUR argument contradicts itself.........

So then you're just celebrating a Pagan religion? Yeah, because that's a lot better. lol

I would like for you to be more specific with this.. The bible does talk about a new heaven and new earth but, it mentions nothing about us not being in God's presence whether thats us all walking around with God, Jesus, etc.. in heaven or if its like in the Garden when "God walked with Adam" , who knows? I have never read anything extremely clear with extreme description as to what life after "Christ Return" will be like... This i do know - that the bible talks about seperation from Him (Hell, lake of fire, etc.. for those that don't believe and he talks about the place that Jesus is going to prepare for those that believe in him.. What ever the fine details are, I want to be in the place that gives me eternal life with HIM!!

It does say that God will be among us once again, which would put us in his presence. However, only the select 144,000 will reign in Heaven as kings with Jesus. Read Revelations and it's all pretty cut and dry.

[Killer]

So you Christians can pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow and which not to? Awesome.

Not what i said... My point is If you don't even believe that the words in the bible are true... WHY ARE YOU PREACHING THEM?... it shouldn't concern you... let people believe as they want to... as an agnostic its not your job to "spread the message"

So then you're just celebrating a Pagan religion? Yeah, because that's a lot better. lol

dude, you're just pulling stuff out of no where....

again.. point made is you say there is no trinity...

but god says not to associate HIM with pagan holidays...

nothing about associating jesus with them....

if god and jesus are not the same person then your argument is void....

[Sport1.3]

One word. Dinosaurs

[Killer]

One word. Dinosaurs

what about em???

[Sport1.3]

what about em???

Unlike your god, they were real

[Killer]

Unlike your god, they were real

When you show me proof that He does not exist... i'll stop believing...











just like if i had proof that He does exist... you'd start following... (i'm not gonna say believe because to believe in something you have to have faith.. and faith is believing without seeing..)

[JDMEK18]

One word. Dinosaurs

Yeah, i know - the bible doesn't say anything about dinosaurs but it doesn't say anything about Sport1.3 (Put your name here) either but your real and breathing..

(I don't know why people base there hole faith or no faith on dinosaurs)

Mentioned in love though!

[kadabra]

Yeah, i know - the bible doesn't say anything about dinosaurs but it doesn't say anything about Sport1.3 (Put your name here) either but your real and breathing..

(I don't know why people base there hole faith or no faith on dinosaurs)

Mentioned in love though!

It's not that we're putting our faith into them, just that we should put them out there to show that the theory of evolution and the start of life did not come from Adam and Eve. But like Sport1.3 is real and breathing, thus making him real. Shouldn't we be able to see GOD doing the same?

[JDMEK18]

It's not that we're putting our faith into them, just that we should put them out there to show that the theory of evolution and the start of life did not come from Adam and Eve. But like Sport1.3 is real and breathing, thus making him real. Shouldn't we be able to see GOD doing the same?

WE DO see him doing the same.. We just happen to have different beliefs so your eyes are not seeing what my eyes are seeing...

Its our faith in Jesus that opens our eyes to see what God is doing around us!!

[Kelly]

I've never said I've literally seen Him... Just felt/experienced...

[Jaimecbr900]

What's ironic is that when you show someone a Bible verse and THEY ARE HELL BENT (PUN INTENDED) ON WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE......no amount of logic and plain ole reading comprehension will ever convince them of anything other than what they already have ingrained in their head is the "truth".

Kelly has clearly shown that Ran is no Bible scholar IMO. He said some very clear statements. Kelly came back and addressed EACH and EVERY one of them, not with HER words, but with the very words from the BIBLE that RAN swore "weren't there". What now? You want to still tip toe around the FACT that you were wrong when you said there was "no Hell"? Well, she gave you quite a few direct BIBLE verses that showed you were wrong as "HELL".....LOL. It clearly says "H-E-L-L" in each and every one of those verses. So I guess that proves to Ran that somehow it's "not in the Bible"????? I don't know about you, but not one single description of "HELL" is ever good, so I personally wouldn't want to ever purposely go there. Right or wrong?

Hey, it also clearly says in the Bible that we should all "take up serpents". Right or wrong? So you people think that if you don't take that verse LITERALLY and "play" with snakes every Sunday during Church service then we are NOT being a good and Pius Christian????? Okie dokie.

This is the funny thing about every single non-believer that I have ever encountered. They profess to be so smart and so forward thinking, yet they use THEIR INTERPRETATION of the Bible to support their belief......yet, when someone tells THEM that they INTERPRET that same Bible DIFFERENTLY which is why they believe what they believe......OMG, OMG......"YOU MUST NOT BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN..... "

Until someone shows me a Theology PHD......your OPINION and INTERPRETATION of the Bible, it's contents, meanings, definitions, etc hold as much water as a leaky collander. How come it's "ok" for two people to read the same exact words, yet get something different out of it? Yet when two people read the Bible, there is suddenly only ONE true meaning and that ONE true meaning is only in the eye of the beholder????? How does that make sense? The entire world can evolve, but our thinking and interpretations can't????? Whatever. Keep thinking that. We'll one day see just who was right and who was wrong. If you think about it, Christians have ZERO to lose if they were "wrong". Why? Because if there is no God, NOTHING will happen when we die. If there is, WE will have something good waiting on us. What's the DOWN side again????? What's the DOWN side for YOU????? That's what YOU should be thinking about. Don't worry about Christians. They're well taken care of. Question is.......are YOU if you die today????? Worry about THAT.

[Ran]

If you think about it, Christians have ZERO to lose if they were "wrong". Why? Because if there is no God, NOTHING will happen when we die. If there is, WE will have something good waiting on us. What's the DOWN side again????? What's the DOWN side for YOU????? That's what YOU should be thinking about. Don't worry about Christians. They're well taken care of. Question is.......are YOU if you die today????? Worry about THAT.

Well, according the Christian Bible, I'll be given a second chance when the great tribulation comes. I'd love to be proven wrong at that point. So yeah, I should be okay. Thanks.

[seriousb13]

We'll one day see just who was right and who was wrong. If you think about it, Christians have ZERO to lose if they were "wrong". Why? Because if there is no God, NOTHING will happen when we die. If there is, WE will have something good waiting on us. What's the DOWN side again????? What's the DOWN side for YOU????? That's what YOU should be thinking about. Don't worry about Christians. They're well taken care of. Question is.......are YOU if you die today????? Worry about THAT.

I highly doubt that. They have it just as bad if not worse when you think about the real world.

[Kelly]

Yeah, i know - the bible doesn't say anything about dinosaurs

30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

Maybe???

And this is really interesting:
http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/bible/bible.htm

[kadabra]

30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

Maybe???

And this is really interesting:
http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/bible/bible.htm

Back then they had no clue that the Earth was round, so im sure he was just talking about the animals around a 100 mile radius.

[Kelly]

Back then they had no clue that the Earth was round, so im sure he was just talking about the animals around a 100 mile radius.

Who? Moses?

And even if he was, who is to say he wasn't talking about Dinosaurs?

[JDMEK18]

30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

Maybe???

And this is really interesting:
http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/bible/bible.htm

Nice, thats interesting! +2 The answers are always there - we just have to have the faith to look for them...
We are always looking to open the bible and it say " JDMEK18" Don't go into Club Nikki's or you will surely die.... Its not that cut and dry - I have to have faith to read the scripture and understand that the Chapters (I don't like to call them Stories cause people don't believe in stories) and experiences people are going through - show the answers to our questions...

Thanks again Kelly !!

[JDMEK18]

Quote: Agnostic != Atheist

I believe in a God or higher power, I just believe that organized religion is hideously flawed. Primarily Christianity.

Question: Do you believe in the One True Living God? or is it another god?

[BABY J]

^^ IDK, but they are pretty tasty.