"Christians" Look Here - Questions & Answers

[99hatch]

be·lieve
verb, -lieved, -liev·ing. –verb (used without object)
1.to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully. –verb (used with object)


be·lief
Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
1.confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.

2. something believed; an opinion or conviction

They mean the exact same thing. Now you are just trying to attack me based on my vocabulary usage. Why dont you just stay on topic here.

Yes based on the definition you gave it shows you have no belief in why we are in existence. Plus if you look at the defenition of belief it says something believed: an opinion or conviction, but in your definition of Agnostic:


agnostic according to MB:
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

How can you have a belief in something that you dont have an opinion on. which is basicly stating you dont have any belief on. Its saying you dont know and hold no opinion on whether there is a God.

[99hatch]

That's my question as well. Some chalk it up to God wanting us to have free will. Not sure about that, but that's the speculation. As the story goes, Adam made his decision after being persuaded by Eve who had been deceived by Satan.

Well we are created in God's Image and he has Free Will. If we didnt have free will what would be the point of living. We could just be forced to do whatever he seems fit for us. He has given you the opportunity to live your life the way you see fit, but he wants you to also live in celebration for him. If no free will, we wouldnt be able to do the things we love to do, like fix up cars for example, instead we would be mindless slaves having to do whatever was thrust upon us.

[ShooterMcGavin]

That's my question as well. Some chalk it up to God wanting us to have free will. Not sure about that, but that's the speculation. As the story goes, Adam made his decision after being persuaded by Eve who had been deceived by Satan.

yes i recall the story, but like i was insinuating earlier, having the tree, the fruit and satan there in the garden to begin with seems like a "test" to me...free will or not god was clearly "experimenting" to see how man and woman would react no?

[ShooterMcGavin]

They mean the exact same thing. Now you are just trying to attack me based on my vocabulary usage. Why dont you just stay on topic here.

i'm not attacking anyone, i'm just pointing out you clearly have issues differing between the two when composing sentences. it's hard for me to take someone seriously in a serious discussion about a serious topic if they can't even use such simple words correctly.

Yes based on the definition you gave it shows you have no belief in why we are in existence. Plus if you look at the defenition of belief it says something believed: an opinion or conviction, but in your definition of Agnostic:


agnostic according to MB:
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

How can you have a belief in something that you dont have an opinion on. which is basicly stating you dont have any belief on. Its saying you dont know and hold no opinion on whether there is a God.

clearly you're trying to get into a technical discussion of semantics here and word usage. i will be simple and brief and state only that just bc one might not be COMMITTED to believing in something, that doesn't mean they don't AT ALL. i'd further debate the meanings of words such as commit or opinion or conviction but i hardly see a point in discussing semantics and pragmatics with someone who hasn't demonstrated a firm grasp of the english language, no offense.

[Ran]

yes i recall the story, but like i was insinuating earlier, having the tree, the fruit and satan there in the garden to begin with seems like a "test" to me...free will or not god was clearly "experimenting" to see how man and woman would react no?

Again, not entirely sure. According to what I've read, God wants man to have free will and the desire to love and worship him. If there was no sense of competition in which to distract our worship of him, it'd be rather pointless. That's where the tree and fruits comes in. It's here that I get lost. From what I understand, God is supposed to be perfect. But if he wants us to worship him, then that means he is longing for something. Isn't the feeling of want or desire a human trait and a direct reaction to neglect or deprivaty? You would think that God, in all of his perfection, would be lacking such imperfect feelings.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Well we are created in God's Image and he has Free Will. If we didnt have free will what would be the point of living. We could just be forced to do whatever he seems fit for us. He has given you the opportunity to live your life the way you see fit, but he wants you to also live in celebration for him. If no free will, we wouldnt be able to do the things we love to do, like fix up cars for example, instead we would be mindless slaves having to do whatever was thrust upon us.

considering that humans have had free reign to do whatever it is they please since our existence, it wouldn't give the bible much credibility if it was written that we DIDN'T have free will...if you catch my drift

[Blitanicle99]

You can contradict it left and right, up and down, but it just comes down to faith. I am no expert by any means, but certain things you realize in life just connect and not a book nor someone can explain it. They can merely guide you in a direction, you must pursue it and figure out what you really think, not what other opinions are. You are your opinion, you are yourself, not someone else, nor their opinions.

In a nutshell, no matter what I or anyone else will say, it won't do much for you. You need to figure out what YOU think. You can sit on millions of websites, watch videos on youtube, sit in church and listen to the pastor, but until you have that moment of reckoning, its all meaningless.

[99hatch]

Either way man, you obviously have no clue how to speak English since belief and believe are 2 totally different words as i gave you the definitions there. But if you wish to debate the topic at hand, then i am more than willing. I did not think you resort to grammatical correction, it seems you are just trying to argue no matter the point. Since you started the 7 page accusing me of lieing, cheating, stealing and then just throwing a willy nilly apology out there and all my sins are forgiven.

I did not say you were Agnostic, i was merely pointing out that the term Agnostic is someone who cannot commit to a belief. So how can the term be used as a system of what one may believe, when it is not a belief in anything at all.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Again, not entirely sure. According to what I've read, God wants man to have free will and the desire to love and worship him. If there was no sense of competition in which to distract our worship of him, it'd be rather pointless. That's where the tree and fruits comes in. It's here that I get lost. From what I understand, God is supposed to be perfect. But if he wants us to worship him, then that means he is longing for something. Isn't the feeling of want or desire a human trait and a direct reaction to neglect or deprivaty? You would think that God, in all of his perfection, would be lacking such imperfect feelings.

i know exactly what you're trying to say, and all i can add is that at that point of trying to understand, we might lose ability to define and comprehend something which can be so much greater than us and what our minds can fathom.

[ShooterMcGavin]

In a nutshell, no matter what I or anyone else will say, it won't do much for you. You need to figure out what YOU think. You can sit on millions of websites, watch videos on youtube, sit in church and listen to the pastor, but until you have that moment of reckoning, its all meaningless.

i'm sorry but that's where you're wrong. without the countless debates and discussions i've had with both religious and nonreligious friends and acquaintances, i would not have gotten to where i am today.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Either way man, you obviously have no clue how to speak English since belief and believe are 2 totally different words as i gave you the definitions there. But if you wish to debate the topic at hand, then i am more than willing. I did not think you resort to grammatical correction, it seems you are just trying to argue no matter the point. Since you started the 7 page accusing me of lieing, cheating, stealing and then just throwing a willy nilly apology out there and all my sins are forgiven.

I did not say you were Agnostic, i was merely pointing out that the term Agnostic is someone who cannot commit to a belief. So how can the term be used as a system of what one may believe, when it is not a belief in anything at all.

lol, that's funny, suddenly i'm the one that can't decipher the difference between the 2 words?

and nowhere did i accuse YOU of doing anything, other than not being able to use believe and belief correctly that is

[99hatch]

It's here that I get lost. From what I understand, God is supposed to be perfect. But if he wants us to worship him, then that means he is longing for something. Isn't the feeling of want or desire a human trait and a direct reaction to neglect or deprivaty? You would think that God, in all of his perfection, would be lacking such imperfect feelings.

I dont really see it that way. I see it more along the lines that desire is a human trait that we all have. It is not a negative trait that would make one imperfect. Do you not have desire to see your wife if you are married, or desire to want anything really. I see desire more like passion for something. God desires his Children to love him and also spread the word for him to those who dont know, or dont believe.

[99hatch]

Im a true Christian and I and all my friends call ourselves Christians. Thats the only word i know for it. But I agree, it does mean follower of Christ.

so basically that means you lie, cheat, steal, and sin like a motherfvcker in general but repent at the end of the day right?

you quoted what i said about being a true Christian and put it in bold, then said the previous statement. How is that not directed at me I ask you?

Also Belief and Believe are the same word with the exception one is used as a noun and one is used as a verb. They have the same definition.

[Ran]

i know exactly what you're trying to say, and all i can add is that at that point of trying to understand, we might lose ability to define and comprehend something which can be so much greater than us and what our minds can fathom.

I've considered that as well. It's yet another road block along the way for me.

[ShooterMcGavin]

[/i]you quoted what i said about being a true Christian and put it in bold, then said the previous statement. How is that not directed at me I ask you?

you my friend have clearly never heard of sarcasm...

Also Belief and Believe are the same word with the exception one is used as a noun and one is used as a verb. They have the same definition.

bravo, so where's the difficulty in using them properly again if it's that simple?

[ShooterMcGavin]

I've considered that as well. It's yet another road block along the way for me.

you could always just have a little faith...

[JDMEK18]

You can contradict it left and right, up and down, but it just comes down to faith. I am no expert by any means, but certain things you realize in life just connect and not a book nor someone can explain it. They can merely guide you in a direction, you must pursue it and figure out what you really think, not what other opinions are. You are your opinion, you are yourself, not someone else, nor their opinions.

In a nutshell, no matter what I or anyone else will say, it won't do much for you. You need to figure out what YOU think. You can sit on millions of websites, watch videos on youtube, sit in church and listen to the pastor, but until you have that moment of reckoning, its all meaningless.

x2

[man]

only the ignorant think they have "answers"

[99hatch]

and nowhere did i accuse YOU of doing anything, other than not being able to use believe and belief correctly that is

And you my friend cannot clearly see that you are wrong, you did accuse me. But its all good, i just like to defend myself when someone criticizes me.

Ok i read back and see you caught me in a typo over one word bravo, i used one when i meant to use the other. You should become a private detective.

[ShooterMcGavin]

And you my friend cannot clearly see that you are wrong, you did accuse me. But its all good, i just like to defend myself when someone criticizes me.

if you still honestly believe that then you clearly do not catch sarcasm very well at all, bet you have a dry sense of humor too huh? in either case, don't flatter yourself, there are entirely too many supposed christians to criticize than just yourself

Ok i read back and see you caught me in a typo over one word bravo, i used one when i meant to use the other. You should become a private detective.

how do you know i'm not?

[ShooterMcGavin]

only the ignorant think they have "answers"

or arrogant

[Blitanicle99]

or arrogant

Sorry I didnt quote the right post. But your saying that your point of view came from others and your discussions with them?

I will completely admit that it took lots of conversations with friends and certain things happening in my life to even consider faith. It led in a direction but that "leap of faith" was not from outside persuasion. It was my own, and no one elses.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I am not trying to persude you into anything or sell you on something, just merely explain to you that you win in the fact that you can argue all day and night about this and bash it up. However, all that turns out to be is simple conversation, and that will by no means, shake true faith.

True faith is such on a higher level than simple opinion on what you think. True faith is not even realizing that you will go blatently out in public and if people bring up religion aspects you go and tell them about yours and how you feel, rather than argue in the first place and bash it or just sit quiet about it and ponder about it in the back of your head.

Back in the day, I would have NEVER posted in a thread like this. I would have NEVER voiced my beliefs, but I do now and with faith. I do not care that people know where I truely stand with god. That doesn't bother me, and Ive realized, truely realized that the people that bash it, question it, try to dismember it, are only scared of the truth.

[man]

or arrogant

Also true

[ShooterMcGavin]

I will completely admit that it took lots of conversations with friends and certain things happening in my life to even consider faith. It led in a direction but that "leap of faith" was not from outside persuasion. It was my own, and no one elses.

Back in the day, I would have NEVER posted in a thread like this. I would have NEVER voiced my beliefs, but I do now and with faith. I do not care that people know where I truely stand with god. That doesn't bother me, and Ive realized, truely realized that the people that bash it, question it, try to dismember it, are only scared of the truth.

that's quite a generalization there but it's your prerogative to have your own opinions.

[Blitanicle99]

I don't even remotely understand your opinion or anything going on in this thread than my own posts.

[ShooterMcGavin]

I don't even remotely understand your opinion or anything going on in this thread than my own posts.

you don't understand my opinion on what?

and i can't figure out what you were trying to say there at the end...think you might've lost a word.

[tron]

Quick question

is the bible an actual book?....sounds like a stupid question but i was told it was a collection of books written by different people at different times in history
so how can we use scriptures from different books to prove another?

[Blitanicle99]

you don't understand my opinion on what?

and i can't figure out what you were trying to say there at the end...think you might've lost a word.

I dunno, I havent really read this thread much, just Rans posts because he started it and a few of the arguements brought up. I didn't know where you stand.

[Lucky DAWG]

you should always post the scripture for reference with things like this....

as for easter and christmas... yeah, you are exactly right on they are pagan holidays... some priest or roman catholic "leader" of some sort (i don't remember who) decided to start having christmas and easter on whatever those pagan holidays were so that it would look and appear like "everyone" was celebrating christ... (i could be a bit off on this... but i know i'm pretty close to the reasoning)

most christians know this.... if not they def need to...

but you've also gotta remember... those pagan holidays are kinda long gone and forgotten about... the days that everyone celebrate christmas and easter now are just that... christmas and easter...

do you celebrate either of them????

if so... why??? your agnostic....

further more... if you do, and aren't celebrating them for what most christians do... are you going back to the paganistic(- is that even a word? lol) roots of the holidays yourself?....

no... you're just happy to have some time off work get some extra presents and what not...

i'd be more than willing to bet God is pretty pleased with the fact that christians/catholics.. turned what were once pagan holidays/rituals into two different days of the year that even non christians are basically forced to think about Him/Jesus......

That really bothers me.



Catholicism was the first widely organized Denomination of Christianity. Why would you put Christianity then slash Catholicism as if they were two seperate things?




I have no problem with other religions but if that is going to be necessary at all it would be Christians / Prodestant, or Christians / Methodists etc.


I don't know why other Denominations of Christianity feel the need to label us otherwise, we are all the same with different views and opinions that use the same book and same core values. Thats my , i'm just very offended when people refer to me as something other then a Christian.

[ShooterMcGavin]

I dunno, I havent really read this thread much, just Rans posts because he started it and a few of the arguements brought up. I didn't know where you stand.

haha, that's in large part due to the fact that i haven't really made it known where exactly i stand

[Blitanicle99]

Alright good, atleast I am not the village idiot here lol

[yerrow]

Quick question

is the bible an actual book?....sounds like a stupid question but i was told it was a collection of books written by different people at different times in history
so how can we use scriptures from different books to prove another?

it is a small selection of books that were written many centuries after the lifetime of jesus the christ.

many times the books that tell the same stories, are at odds with one another

[man]

it is a small selection of books that were written many centuries after the lifetime of jesus the christ.

many times the books that tell the same stories, are at odds with one another

Same thing happens with current events

Imagine if 20 people decided to write a book on the War on Terror a couple centuries from now, think they'd all say the exact same thing?

[yerrow]

like jesus' last words?

[man]

like jesus' last words?

Pretty much

I don't get why it's so hard to grasp. How can you expect anything to be exactly the same after hundreds of years? These are stories passed from generation to generation. It should be pretty obvious that it will change somewhat.

[Blitanicle99]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up but do your research on this! Before the time of Christ there were stories and visions of a holy figure coming down and completing 26 (dont quote me on the number I am 90 percent positive on the number) tasks, and Jesus Christ completed every single one of them perfectly as it was said before. There were many mentions of him before he came and then obviously after.

[Ran]

Catholicism was the first widely organized Denomination of Christianity. Why would you put Christianity then slash Catholicism as if they were two seperate things?

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

I don't know why other Denominations of Christianity feel the need to label us otherwise, we are all the same with different views and opinions that use the same book and same core values. Thats my , i'm just very offended when people refer to me as something other then a Christian.

The initial core values being the 10 Commandments, then yes they are shared. But that's about where it ends. Extravagant ceremony, material focus, baptising babies, saints? The list of differences is endless. You're guaranteed to find fewer differences between Baptism, Presbyterian, and other protestant religions then you would between them and Catholicism. Hell, Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

[Blitanicle99]

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

The initial core values being the 10 Commandments, then yes they are shared. But that's about where it ends. Extravagant ceremony, material focus, baptising babies, saints? The list of differences is endless. You're guaranteed to find fewer differences between Baptism, Presbyterian, and other protestant religions then you would between them and Catholicism. Hell, Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

As I said before, you really have to look past all that. Its completely different than looking at facts and numbers.

[Ran]

As I said before, you really have to look past all that. Its completely different than looking at facts and numbers.

What? I don't get what you're saying here. Look past what? The religion?

[Mr_Mischif]

Well if God's name is Jehova, why did he start getting called God?