"Christians" Look Here - Questions & Answers

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Originally Posted by Mr_Mischif

Well if God's name is Jehova, why did he start getting called God?

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A lot of churches refer him as just "God" because they feel undeserving to approach him with his declared name. Think of it as calling President Bush "Mr.President" instead of "George." Even though the scripture says that he wants you to be close to him and to share a personal relationship, a lot of people still share the sentiment. Others are just negligent to read the Bible and think that "God" is his actual name. lol

The initial Hebrew scripture writes his name as YHWH, since the Hebrew's have no vowels. Add the proper vowels and you get Yahweh, which means "I am who I am". An appropriate translation of language will give you Jehovah for the most part.

The bottom line is this: THERE IS NO J SOUND, OR A V SOUND IN THE HEBREW LANGUAGE. The Hebrew letter that is equivalent to our J is pronounced like our Y. And, the letter equivalent to our V, in Hebrew, is pronounced like a W. For example, how do you pronounce hallelujah? The J sounds like a Y right?

So, what appears on the surface to be JHVH, is properly pronounced as if it was YHWH. When you pronounce this word correctly, it sounds like Yahweh, or Yahwih, or Yahowah. I personally prefer Yahowah, however, the meaning of the name is far more important than the name, itself. The name of God ( YHWH or Yehowah ) means " I am the one who is God, the true God. " ( unlike all the false gods )

The true God has many names. YHWH is only one of them. He is also called Elohim, which relates to the plural nature of God, and also frequently refers to the God of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He is called Adonai, meaning Lord or Ruler. He is called El-Shaddai, the God who is more than enough. He also has many names which are combinations of YHWH and various attributes of God such as YHWH Jireh ( our Provider ) YHWH Shalom, ( our Peace ) YHWH Rapha ( our Healer ) and many others

There's alot of terms for God

For me though I call him Father. I use God but Father is what Im most comfortable at. What do you think God will get mad at you and burn you to the ground if you dont call him the proper name? LOLOLOLOLOL

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Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900

We'll one day see just who was right and who was wrong. If you think about it, Christians have ZERO to lose if they were "wrong". Why? Because if there is no God, NOTHING will happen when we die. If there is, WE will have something good waiting on us. What's the DOWN side again?????:thinking: :thinking: What's the DOWN side for YOU?????;) That's what YOU should be thinking about. Don't worry about Christians. They're well taken care of. Question is.......are YOU if you die today?????;) Worry about THAT. :goodjob:

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I highly doubt that. They have it just as bad if not worse when you think about the real world.

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Originally Posted by Ran

1) The "Trinity" (the belief that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same) is NOT in the Bible. There are completely seperate.

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True. However, the concept that the three function 'as one' or with one mind (or purpose) is Biblical.

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2) Christmas is a pagan religion and NOT condoned by God or the Bible. Same for Easter. If you celebrate these holidays, then you are defying God's commandment to not associate him with them. Good job.

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Absolutely true. So called christians have been 'adding and subtracting' doctrines, rituals, holy days etc etc on their own for centuries....all 'in vain' I might add.

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3) Unless you are one of the 144,000 chosen by God, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HEAVEN. Those with salvation will inherit the New Earth after the great tribulation and armageddon. No wings, halos, or pearly gates. Sorry.
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This is a simple misreading of Scripture. In fact, although a special group of 144,000 is mentioned the number 'saved' is designated as 'the sands of the sea' which would be a number beyond comprehension. The 144,000 are part of that greater number and a special group of which not alot is understood.

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4) There is no "Hell" with eternal suffering. There is only eternal destruction. Which is yet another way how God is merciful if you think about it.

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Very true! And the most commonly held BS doctrine...along with man having an 'eternal living soul'. A simple study of the Bible will show this one. One example...Sodom and Gommorah suffered the 'vengance of eternal fire' yet there is no buring there. The effects of that destruction were eternal however. The doctrine of eternal burning hell is not Biblical, never has been. Many Christians know this.

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5) The Passover (bread and wine) IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. It's for the select 144,000 that will inherit the kingdom and reign with Jesus. That's why the original ceremony was held in private amongst Jesus and his diciples and not amongst the masses. Look it up.

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Another slight misreading. The example of Christ at the last supper is given for everyone....everyone who is following Christ that is. Your statement has a truth to it however, this service/ritual is not to be entered in by the masses ritually without meaning. The 144,000 and the subsequent activities in heaven/new earth are beyond this.

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6) God's name is Jehovah, not "God". It appears in the Bible over 100 times. Hence why you have "Jehovah's Witnesses". It makes sense.

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God has MANY names and is refered to many ways in the Bible.

I would also say that there are Christians who already know all this stuff too...and more....even though a majority are off the track in left field. ;)

^ Repped

wow it's been a while since I been here....looks like much hasn't changed. Good to see you're still here, Metalman.

Wife swap on Channel 2 right now.. it fits this discussion very well

uh I put it like this . I believe in what I believe. Yeah I believe in a higher power and I look to the bible and religion in general as a guide. It gives us a definition of good and evil. for in my opinon you cant define or have one without the other (Daoists concept of yin and yang). Many relious text have been rewritten or re interprted so many time we many never really know exactly what has or hasnt been included. there is still some debate that the catholic church is still hiding stuff and lets not even get into the whole Davinnchi code dilema.

I just laugh at how many religious people push their religion on others. If a person doesnt believe out of their own volition would that not be blasphemy itself? Like how I believe the crusades and even terrorism used violence to win people over through fear. Its a direction confrontation to a universal law stating that the taking of another life is wrong. Period.

Like many things in history less than reliable explanations of thing in the past are more of a reason to explain the unexplainable. Like back then it was proven people werent that tall so the idea of a 6'7 guy picking on a 5'5 guy coulda easily turned into David and goliath. Same with the plagues of Egypt science did prove it was possible in one form or another that a series of ecological events could lead to conditions like that making someone back then believe it was the wrath of god.

Me personally? I just belive in doing good by others and that karma pays you back so i just try to do the best I can to be a "good" person by definition. In doing so I am following more of god's laws than most diehard christians i know who wouldnt talk to a bum or a person addicted to drugs because they are unholy in their eyes (and I have met quite a few people like that down here especially). even with other holy books the Tora and quran if im not mistaken were the old testament with a slight diff in translation (correct me if I am wrong).

But like i said I believe in a higher power based on the principle that at some point int he universe science no matter what still has to explain where in the hell matter came from in the first place. And no matter what some things just arent explainable to me. So where as I believe in evolution and all that I just may not believe that adam and ever were exactly homo saipien moreso than a way to explain back then where the hell we came from when no other definition seemed to fit.

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Originally Posted by Romeyo07

wow it's been a while since I been here....looks like much hasn't changed. Good to see you're still here, Metalman.

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holy hell, did you move back from fla?

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Originally Posted by 0p7!mu5

uh I put it like this . I believe in what I believe. Yeah I believe in a higher power and I look to the bible and religion in general as a guide. It gives us a definition of good and evil. for in my opinon you cant define or have one without the other (Daoists concept of yin and yang). Many relious text have been rewritten or re interprted so many time we many never really know exactly what has or hasnt been included. there is still some debate that the catholic church is still hiding stuff and lets not even get into the whole Davinnchi code dilema.

I just laugh at how many religious people push their religion on others. If a person doesnt believe out of their own volition would that not be blasphemy itself? Like how I believe the crusades and even terrorism used violence to win people over through fear. Its a direction confrontation to a universal law stating that the taking of another life is wrong. Period.

Like many things in history less than reliable explanations of thing in the past are more of a reason to explain the unexplainable. Like back then it was proven people werent that tall so the idea of a 6'7 guy picking on a 5'5 guy coulda easily turned into David and goliath. Same with the plagues of Egypt science did prove it was possible in one form or another that a series of ecological events could lead to conditions like that making someone back then believe it was the wrath of god.

Me personally? I just belive in doing good by others and that karma pays you back so i just try to do the best I can to be a "good" person by definition. In doing so I am following more of god's laws than most diehard christians i know who wouldnt talk to a bum or a person addicted to drugs because they are unholy in their eyes (and I have met quite a few people like that down here especially). even with other holy books the Tora and quran if im not mistaken were the old testament with a slight diff in translation (correct me if I am wrong).

But like i said I believe in a higher power based on the principle that at some point int he universe science no matter what still has to explain where in the hell matter came from in the first place. And no matter what some things just arent explainable to me. So where as I believe in evolution and all that I just may not believe that adam and ever were exactly homo saipien moreso than a way to explain back then where the hell we came from when no other definition seemed to fit.

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some good stuff here :goodjob:

I Dont Believe In None Of That...You Live For A While..Then You Die..Thats It LOL

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Originally Posted by ep9716

I Dont Believe In None Of That...You Live For A While..Then You Die..Thats It LOL

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I wish life was that simple. Sadly, it's not.

Life is a combination of experiences, trials, misfortunes and so on... It's far more complex then you're making it out to be. Once you 'die' your body goes through a metamorphosis stage and changes from the inside out.

The 'soul' vanishes. To what and where? We don't know.

Religion is a subject I would much rather ignore, but I might jump in on it alittle bit later.

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Originally Posted by Ran

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

The initial core values being the 10 Commandments, then yes they are shared. But that's about where it ends. Extravagant ceremony, material focus, baptising babies, saints? The list of differences is endless. You're guaranteed to find fewer differences between Baptism, Presbyterian, and other protestant religions then you would between them and Catholicism. Hell, Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

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No the initial core values being the Bible.


Ran you have honestly no ****ing idea what you are talking about. Its actually offensive to think that you do and to generalize it like so.


So corrupted? Yes back in the medieval and dark ages the church asked for money to save you from time in purgatory. And yes there has been bad men in the church of recent years with the molestation scandals.

To say no other religion has had scandels would be completely blasphemous. And ofcourse you find less differences between the denominations what does that change about Catholicism being a Christian religion?



And where do you get off telling ME what WE think? Never once have i met a catholic that thought they were not christinas. My entire mom's side is from Ireland and everyone is Catholic there, so between them and being involved in the church here i know a lot of them. My dad's side is all baptist, i have been to both church's and the ideas and things talked about are nearly identical, the way church is handled though and the different ceremonies are different. Its the same core message that is handled a different way.



You are speaking out of pure ignorance and it is outright demeaning to my core beliefs. I really do not get where someone gets off telling me the wrongs of my religion... I have zero problems with Bhuddists, Muslims, or any other religion as long as they are faithful and attempt to good in their lives.




Think what you want on your own, but don't tell me what i believe is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Crazy Asian

For me though I call him Father. I use God but Father is what Im most comfortable at. What do you think God will get mad at you and burn you to the ground if you dont call him the proper name? LOLOLOLOLOL

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I agree, i think all of the names you listed for god throughout history are all things for us to better understand the pretenses of religion and how societies back then thought and how religion was created and practiced.

Because at the end of the day atleast to me, they are all names being spoken in a language created by Humans.



What really matters is what you call him to yourself when speaking with him and what it truely means to you, not the grammatical value of it in a human based language.


I personally use Father or God

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Originally Posted by Ran

Catholicism has been so corrupted by money and pretenses it's not even funny. It has long since been anything other than Christian.

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Not only that, its highly spiritually corrupt in it's blasphemous rituals...nearly all of which are condemned in the Bible, and by the Christ it claims to follow. One of the most outrageous aspect of vatican notions is that a Creator God is bound to follow the descisions of sinful popes and men. Absurd.

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Catholics themselves tend to think themselves as seperate from traditional Christianity.

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The church masquarades as christian by assuming christian names for its man-made rituals. The core doctrines/rituals of the church are not Biblical...nor are they according to any Biblical commandment, but contrary to them. The church re wrote the 10 Biblical commandments for its own 'bible' to reflect its own teachings.

Funny thing is, some so called 'protestant' churches follow right along with that nonsense. I have intently studied catholic books and texts that most most practicing catholics have not one ounce of knowlege of. I neither hate nor despise catholic people. I pity their ignorance. My own loved ones are catholic...and although highly schooled and intelligent in many ways, are highly ignorant and uninformed of Biblical teachings OR even the nonsense the church puts forth. This is typical. They follow blindly along...simply because thats 'tradition' and if any question comes up they rely on the priest/preacher/minister/guru/pope etc to answer it.

That summarizes most so called christian church groups...following tradition blindly, without any question...or open minded search and study. The Christ the churches claims to follow said this....
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"....."For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...."....."Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..."

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Originally Posted by metalman

Not only that, its highly spiritually corrupt in it's blasphemous rituals...nearly all of which are condemned in the Bible, and by the Christ it claims to follow. One of the most outrageous aspect of vatican notions is that a Creator God is bound to follow the descisions of sinful popes and men. Absurd.



The church masquarades as christian by assuming christian names for its man-made rituals. The core doctrines/rituals of the church are not Biblical...nor are they according to any Biblical commandment, but contrary to them. The church re wrote the 10 Biblical commandments for its own 'bible' to reflect its own teachings.

Funny thing is, some so called 'protestant' churches follow right along with that nonsense. I have intently studied catholic books and texts that most most practicing catholics have not one ounce of knowlege of. I neither hate nor despise catholic people. I pity their ignorance. My own loved ones are catholic...and although highly schooled and intelligent in many ways, are highly ignorant and uninformed of Biblical teachings OR even the nonsense the church puts forth. This is typical. They follow blindly along...simply because thats 'tradition' and if any question comes up they rely on the priest/preacher/minister/guru/pope etc to answer it.

That summarizes most so called christian church groups...following tradition blindly, without any question...or open minded search and study. The Christ the churches claims to follow said this....
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"....."For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...."....."Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..."

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you oversimply a lot.



and maybe tradition means something to us. And i thought following blindly along was the point of religion in general. Its called faith, and its something i have in my religion.




Do your own thing and stop dumping on other religions, i won't try and convert you, so you don't do the same to me.




I really don't understand why or how this turned into ****ting on other religions you deem as inferior to your own.

After reading all of this: I wish I could prove to non-believers that God is real. But, If I could do this, it would end what God wants. God wants us to believe in Him "in faith". So, if I could prove to all that God is real it would change "faith" to "fact" making us just like angels(Created by God for worship). That's what makes us and our worship special... We "choose" to worship Him.

Ran you are going to be hard pressed to find facts for God because he wants you to believe in Faith. Question for you - Are you trying to spend time seeking Him? Prayer is common way of communication. If you seek Him you will find Him. I'm not saying you have to go to church, church is "suppose" to make it easier to focus...

I love to read over these post though... It actually increases my faith because no one can actually prove or dis-prove God....

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

you oversimply a lot.



and maybe tradition means something to us. And i thought following blindly along was the point of religion in general. Its called faith, and its something i have in my religion.




Do your own thing and stop dumping on other religions, i won't try and convert you, so you don't do the same to me.




I really don't understand why or how this turned into ****ting on other religions you deem as inferior to your own.

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Dont confuse facts with 'oversimplification'.

Youre way off track. I am not 'dumping' on you, nor do I feel others 'inferior'...I am simply pointing out FACTS about catholic tradition (that also apply to many other 'traditions')

I am not questioning the sincerity of catholics.

The context here is so called christian church doctrines often contradict the Bible they claim to follow. That is TRUE. Muslims have the same issue with extremist 'churches' that claim to follow the Koran but who violate its principles with their own man made substitutes.


I understand full well how important tradition is to the vatican. Tradition is revered much more then TRUTH, the teachings of the Bible, the words of Christ, or anything else. That is acknowleged by 'saints' within the church. The traditions of men, the words of sinful men are revered more then most anything. As an American I defend your right to ANY religion or 'faith' you wish to hold. Any! You can worship a billygoats nutsack if you want. Just dont claim that 'faith' and 'tradition' as Biblical when its not. :)

The cornerstones of catholic tradition are the mass, and confession. Both are man made rituals. Both are blasphemy by Biblical definition and condemned by the Bible...as practiced by the church. One is a pagan ritual with names changed to sound 'christian'. The other is a dark ages concept developed to control and keep within subjection the parishoner.

Following blindly along is not Biblical faith by definition or by any means....its human uninformed/ignorance in action. The Bible commands that one "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...NOT follow blindly the words and made up teachings of men.

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Originally Posted by MaconPerformance

I love to read over these post though... It actually increases my faith because no one can actually prove or dis-prove God....

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x2

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Originally Posted by metalman

The context here is so called christian church doctrines often contradict the Bible they claim to follow. That is TRUE. Muslims have the same issue with extremist 'churches' that claim to follow the Koran but who violate its principles with their own man made substitutes.

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Let's not forget about The Apocrypha.

word

Or hell Ill go into my own person BS.

I am a very skepitcal person. I had a lot of friends who were "church nerds" or whatever, but they were still good friends of mine. I grew up with the guys, was in boyscouts with some of them and so on. There was one particular friend, his name is Matt. His last name will not be shared. Matt really took well to church, he was always helping out around the events, he did the school events and damn a lot of people looked up to him. I consider him like an older brother, great guy and Ill never forget him.

Well story in a nutshell, hanging out with some buddies one night working on a particular GTO Matt was there. I pulled Matt aside for a minute, and said when he had a chance sometime this week I had something I needed his help on. ( I was very general about it, I sorta made it out to be school related) Well a week went by, I got a chance to meet up with him at his house. He happened to be with another church like buddy which sorta confused me, but whatever. We all were BSing and all that but Matt finally asked what I needed help with. Flat out, right there, I asked Matt why he believed in God.

And what truely impressed me (I guess God wanted to impress me this day) is that Matt didn't have to clear his throat, or even pause for a second. Matt knew I was going to ask that exact question, and for about a week he had been looking up verses and particular stuff he wanted to show me. Matt told me about faith, lots of christain stuff I didn't know and so on. I wasnt raised by a church family, I wouldn't know this. I actually had to ask who the virgin mary was.... (yes I know, Im a retard lol)

Well time went on, I went to church with Matt quite a few times, I tried to embrace religion or whatever, but it honestly wasnt doing much for me. I questioned it a lot, I thought of the skeptical parts in which I could disprove, and so on.

So a couple years go on, I never really accepted god into my life and I went about my business. But something happened. Its about 5:10 am on a thursday morning, I wake up to my buddy slamming on my window on my apartment in statesboro ga. I check my phone for the time and I have 28 missed calls and 7 texts. "Oh ****" I thought to myself, this better be good.

Well, as most of you heard in the news and I made a thread about it. Lauren Ashley Burk of Auburn had been murdered. It was all over the news, this girl was a freshman at Auburn was murdered. I have literally never known a sweeter girl in my entire life. She was gorgeous, smart, and just wow... such a sweetheart. Anyways, I find out what happened, end up going to waffle house with the group in statesboro that used to hang out with her... (About 5 of us really knew her well down there), we all make a few phone calls to old friends, it was really hard.

Well this particular weekend, every single person of the old friends from whatever college came back to the area (Marietta) for sort of a reuinion thing. Again it was hard, but it was good to see some old friends at a time like this. Most of us were pretty heart broken over this, as you might understand. The funeral was on saturday, we were all there. It was a pretty big funeral, I can't believe how many people came for her. Hey boyfriend Sean, had it rough boy... Damn... that guy was torn the hell up. The couple were very very close.

So the funeral goes on and just something about it continues in my heard and deep inside of me just the same as when I woke up 2 days before at 5:10am and I couldn't figure it out. It was bringing me down or bringing me up, I couldnt tell.

Long story short, I asked basically asked God in the funeral to guide me in my life and so on. And I am not embaressed at all to share that with compeltely random people. But however, point being as skeptical as I was it took something that big just for me to ask for God for help. However I was still looking for that sign, that thing that would happen to show me that I got my message to a higher power. So basically thats my leap of faith there.

A few weeks went by, and I hadn't thought about it, nor been waiting for that sign/message really. I realized it would come when it comes. So one night, I was with some friends, we smoked a joint. (Get over it) And at my state of mind I figured out that I never need a sign, I never had one originally because from then on I was openly telling people my story and spreading my faith. And it took something like that girl getting murdered to get me to make that leap of faith. And now I have complete faith in my religion, I know where I am going. I don't nessacery go to church every sunday, nor follow every single rule. But I don't think its about that. I think its about being a damn good person, helping those when they need, and just trying to do something with your life and appreciate it for what it is.

And the reason I brought up Matt in the first place is, on the way back to southern one night, I called Matt and told him what happened. He was estatic, we probably talked for like an hour and a half about everything that happened previously, that day we talked and I asked him why he believed in god and so much other stuff. But damn, all I can say is the lord works in misterious ways...

And as I think that, I couldn't be happier. I realized I needed to get out of southern, get back to kennesaw and get a job while in school to get me busy. I realized getting ano
her bike was a bad idea and Id probably end up hurt on one. And plenty of stuff other I realize.

But damn Ill tell you this, without that leap of faith my life would be completely different at the time. I wouldn't have a job that pays ridiculous for my age, most people would kill for a job like mine. (I don't discuss numbers) Ive re-found my bad habit of car projects (Hell it could be alot worse lol) and quite a few other things.


But any of you who question your situation, or religion and think to yourself when am I going to see something that sparks me or kicks my thinking to even consider faith, stop waiting. I found my answer/notion/sign whatever later on and I understand now.

I know someo of you will probably cut my post up, quote stuff out and call me out on things, but thats fine. Go for it. Its meaningless, your not going to talk me out of something.

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

and maybe tradition means something to us. And i thought following blindly along was the point of religion in general. Its called faith, and its something i have in my religion.

Do your own thing and stop dumping on other religions, i won't try and convert you, so you don't do the same to me.

I really don't understand why or how this turned into ****ting on other religions you deem as inferior to your own.

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Tradition is nice, but not if it means bending principles found in the bible just to follow tradition.

Also the idea of Christianity is to try to convert others to see there is a God, and Jesus. Not to just tell people to piss off and quit bashing your religion. You know this website, they will bash you for anything, and those who dont understand Christianity will bash it. So accept it and try to help others see your way.

Catholisim is a denomination of Christianity, not a religion by itself. In Fact all the different denominations are man made anyway. Thats why i feel some of the denominations have rules and traditions that i feel really dont add to bringing others closer to God or helping to worship God. Not to dis any denomination, but tradition is nice, but when we put it above worshiping God, thats basically like a false idol. I think this is where some people have problems with the catholic church. With all the bad press about priest's taking matters into their own hands, and having to ask the virgin mary for forgiveness as apposed to Jesus.

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Originally Posted by metalman

Dont confuse facts with 'oversimplification'.

Youre way off track. I am not 'dumping' on you, nor do I feel others 'inferior'...I am simply pointing out FACTS about catholic tradition (that also apply to many other 'traditions')

I am not questioning the sincerity of catholics.

The context here is so called christian church doctrines often contradict the Bible they claim to follow. That is TRUE. Muslims have the same issue with extremist 'churches' that claim to follow the Koran but who violate its principles with their own man made substitutes.


I understand full well how important tradition is to the vatican. Tradition is revered much more then TRUTH, the teachings of the Bible, the words of Christ, or anything else. That is acknowleged by 'saints' within the church. The traditions of men, the words of sinful men are revered more then most anything. As an American I defend your right to ANY religion or 'faith' you wish to hold. Any! You can worship a billygoats nutsack if you want. Just dont claim that 'faith' and 'tradition' as Biblical when its not. :)

The cornerstones of catholic tradition are the mass, and confession. Both are man made rituals. Both are blasphemy by Biblical definition and condemned by the Bible...as practiced by the church. One is a pagan ritual with names changed to sound 'christian'. The other is a dark ages concept developed to control and keep within subjection the parishoner.

Following blindly along is not Biblical faith by definition or by any means....its human uninformed/ignorance in action. The Bible commands that one "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...NOT follow blindly the words and made up teachings of men.

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Everything about your church no matter what your christian denomination is going to have man's hands on it and will have been changed and warped over the years as to how they see fit.



How can you look at Methodists or Baptists as having a more pure or clear cut vision of how Christianity is when they take their interpretation from a Bible that THEY SAY has been warped by the church THEY BROKE FROM.


Do you understand what i'm saying? if you are seperating yourselves from a church that you think is hiding things, then you are interpretting what is in the version of the Bible that if you want to believe in the theory that it was rewritten back in the 1000's-1200's and so on to fit their beliefs.



No one has the original Bible, and even the original Bible was written by men so its going to have our perogative and bias in it, people aren't perfect. If God or Jesus had written in it then it would have been a different story, but we have to take it for what it is.



I dunno, i'm very into tradition and I like it for that, and i feel that no religion has it completely correct and i feel as if it is ignornat to think that you do when there are so many options out there and you have so little knowledge of the lineage of them.



I don't look down on other religions, I feel as if it means that much to you and you are sincere person then things will work out in the end.


>>>I have a hard time believing that God would damn the 67+% (i believe thats the number) of the world that is not Christian and have and never will be exposed to it their entire life. Some people are born into areas where there religion is all they know and i think thats okay.

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Originally Posted by 99hatch

Tradition is nice, but not if it means bending principles found in the bible just to follow tradition.

Also the idea of Christianity is to try to convert others to see there is a God, and Jesus. Not to just tell people to piss off and quit bashing your religion. You know this website, they will bash you for anything, and those who dont understand Christianity will bash it. So accept it and try to help others see your way.

Catholisim is a denomination of Christianity, not a religion by itself. In Fact all the different denominations are man made anyway. Thats why i feel some of the denominations have rules and traditions that i feel really dont add to bringing others closer to God or helping to worship God. Not to dis any denomination, but tradition is nice, but when we put it above worshiping God, thats basically like a false idol. I think this is where some people have problems with the catholic church. With all the bad press about priest's taking matters into their own hands, and having to ask the virgin mary for forgiveness as apposed to Jesus.

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You don't know the modern Catholic Church then. If you came to my church for a week and heard the sermon's you would think differently. The tradition is not held higher then the message, it is simply a guideline to how the mass is held, the message is different every week.



I think if you asked any Catholic in my church that they would tell you the exact same thing.



I don't simply feel that the acceptance of the Communion is something that will save you, and like i said i don't feel like others around would think so either. That is why the Church has our own Habitat of Humanity branch of does a lot of mission trips

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Originally Posted by MaconPerformance

After reading all of this: I wish I could prove to non-believers that God is real. But, If I could do this, it would end what God wants. God wants us to believe in Him "in faith". So, if I could prove to all that God is real it would change "faith" to "fact" making us just like angels(Created by God for worship). That's what makes us and our worship special... We "choose" to worship Him.

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How do you know this for sure?

It's kinda clear that all of the current churches and priests are out for one thing. And that's making everyone they can into following the way's of Christ. To keep returning to their Church to give out donations.

You yourself, can't prove that God is real.

All you can prove to us, is that there are ancient scripts out there that tell of a man with mystical powers that once lived. That's it. No true facts of his existence.

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Originally Posted by MaconPerformance

Ran you are going to be hard pressed to find facts for God because he wants you to believe in Faith. Question for you - Are you trying to spend time seeking Him? Prayer is common way of communication. If you seek Him you will find Him. I'm not saying you have to go to church, church is "suppose" to make it easier to focus...

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No one wants to spend anytime seeking a being they know they'll never be able to see. All people really want are answers. Church doesn't give us, answers. They give us a better understanding at how life revolves around certain morals and how we should follow the path to happiness.

In reality. People don't usually walk out of church with new knowledge on anything.

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Originally Posted by MaconPerformance

I love to read over these post though... It actually increases my faith because no one can actually prove or dis-prove God....

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I like reading stuff like this cause it gives me a better understanding on other people's point of views. And how people with faith react to non-believers.

You're right though. No one can 'disprove' God, but no one here can prove he exists. So it's an equal discussion. With equal points.

im Jewish so im automatically goin to heaven, hahaha your all goin to hell








jk some of you might go to heaven

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Originally Posted by adios

You're right though. No one can 'disprove' God, but no one here can prove his existence. So it's an equal arguement. With equal points.

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Just like disproving flying spaghetti monster.

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Originally Posted by adios

How do you know this for sure?

It's kinda clear that all of the current churches and priests are out for one thing. And that's making everyone they can into following the way's of Christ. To keep returning to their Church to give out donations.

You yourself, can't prove that God is real.

All you can prove to us, is that there are ancient scripts out there that tell of a man with mystical powers that once lived. That's it. No true facts of his existence.


No one wants to spend anytime seeking a being they know they'll never be able to see. All people really want are answers. Church doesn't give us, answers. They give us a better understanding at how life revolves around certain morals and how we should follow the path to happiness.

In reality. People don't usually walk out of church with new knowledge on anything.


I like reading stuff like this cause it gives me a better understanding on other people's point of views. And how people with faith react to non-believers.

You're right though. No one can 'disprove' God, but no one here can prove he exists. So it's an equal discussion. With equal points.

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Thats funny because the very science you argue for proves that he existed. Whether or not you want to believe he was a higher being, Jesus was historically proven a real person.




Any Theologist or Anthropologist / Archaeoligist will tell you that despite their religious beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

Thats funny because the very science you argue for proves that he existed. Whether or not you want to believe he was a higher being, Jesus was historically proven a real person.

Any Theologist or Anthropologist / Archaeoligist will tell you that despite their religious beliefs.

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I bet you watched the show that talked about his remains on Discovery Channel and automatically believed it, because, well, Discovery Channel said it so it must be true.



Right? Wrong!


Even if they could find any remains, of Jesus Christ. How would they know he had special powers? Powers of healing and the power to bring people back from the dead?

They can't! And wouldn't be able to.


They could check it's DNA, but what would that tell you? They can't possible say that its dna is identical to God's himself.


Plus, who's talking about Jesus? I was referring to God in my post.
EDIT: After going back and reading what I posted, I can understand and see how you would think I was talking about Jesus. My mistake.

Let me leave you with something interesting to read. Read it all, and let me know what you think. vvv

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2514360.shtml

How does god feel about me pooping on my partner's chest during intercourse?

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Originally Posted by adios

You're right though. No one can 'disprove' God, but no one here can prove he exists. So it's an equal discussion. With equal points.

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That's actually not really how logic or science work. Having no evidence for the existence of something doesn't put its potential existence at an equal footing with its thus far observed non-existence.

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Originally Posted by Killer

it takes a human to design anything mechanical to function.. scrap metal doesn't just evolve into cadillac....

I hate to state the super obvious here, but considering that you're apparently overlooking it in your statement there's no way around it. That's because organisms are biological and Cadillacs are not. Its possible for simple biological chemicals to form by themselves.

just like i feel the earth/living creatures were designed to work the way we work... of course there will be some "improvements" `along the way... just like cars having some pretty awesome improvements themselves...
If someone designed us, they obviously weren't a god. Genetic mutations resulting in a decreased level of fitness or disease are quite common even in humans. Cancer, cholesterol disorders etc.

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:2cents:

i find stuff like this rather interesting...what ppl believe n what not. But thats just it, ppl believe for different reasons, Many of which are wrong. When asked why you believe in what you do, can you honestly defend your faith?

If you know the route to safety, how can you tell others who have never been that way, and expect them to trust you with their lives? can you just say, "i feel this is the right thing", and expect to others to follow. And for those who look down on ppl sharing their faith in the preaching work...why? why look down on them "when faith without works are dead". did not jesus go on preaching in the synagogs and throught all judea and galalee?

What you believe means your life. how u live day to day, and if you are going to live forever. ppl have become so apathetic and religiously passive, allowing MAN to dictate what they believe in. 2 Timothy 3:16 says it all make sure you judge your beliefs as admonished there.

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Originally Posted by adios

I bet you watched the show that talked about his remains on Discovery Channel and automatically believed it, because, well, Discovery Channel said it so it must be true.



Right? Wrong!


Even if they could find any remains, of Jesus Christ. How would they know he had special powers? Powers of healing and the power to bring people back from the dead?

They can't! And wouldn't be able to.


They could check it's DNA, but what would that tell you? They can't possible say that its dna is identical to God's himself.


Plus, who's talking about Jesus? I was referring to God in my post.
EDIT: After going back and reading what I posted, I can understand and see how you would think I was talking about Jesus. My mistake.

Let me leave you with something interesting to read. Read it all, and let me know what you think. vvv

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2514360.shtml

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Nope, never watched it.

But the overwhelming majority of people will tell you he is a real person, and just like i posted, not one necessarily with any kind of powers, just a guy named Jesus of Nazareth.


and ofcourse you can't prove God's existence, Faith is the entire basis of it. Faith is what keeps so many coming back for more, but at the same time it pushes away so many from the church because they can't see or hear it. It all depends on the type of person you are and if you are ready to accept something like that.


I personally don't know for sure that my religion is true, but i do not understand why someone would despite its factual basis WANT to believe something like there is no God and there is no point to life. If thats your idealism then why not just roll over and give up?

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

Everything about your church no matter what your christian denomination is going to have man's hands on it and will have been changed and warped over the years as to how they see fit.

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First, I dont have a church. I dont belong to one.
Second, there is no earthly denomiation (or affiliation) that will "save" you from ultimate destruction. Period.
But, real Christians already know this. The Bible is very clear on that.

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How can you look at Methodists or Baptists as having a more pure or clear cut vision of how Christianity is when they take their interpretation from a Bible that THEY SAY has been warped by the church THEY BROKE FROM.

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I dont look at Methodists or Baptists as having 'pure' vision. They too have inflicted themselves with non Biblical teachings and nonsense that they pass off as "biblical", some of it borrowed straight from roman catholic nonsense and dogma....some of it made up by others.
Only a student of Scripture will learn the difference.

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Do you understand what i'm saying? if you are seperating yourselves from a church that you think is hiding things, then you are interpretting what is in the version of the Bible that if you want to believe in the theory that it was rewritten back in the 1000's-1200's and so on to fit their beliefs.

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The Bible needs no 'interpretation' placed upon it. Its a unique writing.
Its a self interpreting book. For every mystery of the Bible another part of that Book explains it. If one studys the Bible, listens to Gods voice and His Spirit they know this. But just blindly following ANY tradition will not lead to this understanding.

The 'smoke screen' and 'foggy' approach to 'christianity' and the Bible is common. Its also typically catholic. The church doesnt wish its members to UNDERSTAND Scripture...it loves to refer to Biblical teachings as 'mysteries'.....which they are NOT. Anyone who can free themselves from that nonsene CAN understand the Bible...IF they WANT to. During one era the catholic church burned Bibles and killed people found duplicating them.
Why??? To keep people IGNORANT of the REAL teachings contained therein...that would FREE them from the BS dogmas of the church.


Its stupidly ironic that any people that claim to believe in a Creator God who has omnipitent power really think that same God cannot preserve His own Word of Truth and that somewhow its beyond His control and that man has screwed it up.
If one doesnt really believe in God or His abilities to preserve the integrity of truth in written form then why bother with any of it to begin with.

Jesus said 'My sheep hear my voice...they follow Me."

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No one has the original Bible, and even the original Bible was written by men so its going to have our perogative and bias in it, people aren't perfect. If God or Jesus had written in it then it would have been a different story, but we have to take it for what it is.

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Therein lies the heart of the issue.
If you dont believe God/Jesus 'wrote' the Bible and that its His inspired Word then your wasting your time. And, youre NOT Christian...for that is the very essence of what it means to be Christian. Following the Bible was the example set forth by Jesus Christ....which to Christians is the pattern for all.
"...faith cometh by hearing...and hearing by the Word of God"

That was kind of my point to begin with....
Catholicism is NOT Christianity.....its a man made religion that has little to do with the teachings of God or His Word.....except it borrows names, and various items and distorts it to fit its own traditions.

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I dunno, i'm very into tradition and I like it for that, and i feel that no religion has it completely correct and i feel as if it is ignornat to think that you do when there are so many options out there and you have so little knowledge of the lineage of them.

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I would dare say I likely know more about the 'linage' of chruches and doctrines then most here....likely you included. But that matters very little....because your actions are governed by what YOU know, not what I know.
And as you have indicated...you are "into tradition".
That makes you a good catholic....it doesnt make you a Christian.

The 'perfect' catholic is the person who will devoid themselves of any critical examination cathoic dogmas, or study of the Bible....and keep all such study & examination within the 'protection' of the church.
FYI this is the exact same concept used my Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones, and all other cult leaders. You cant have members thinking for themselves, or with a personal connection to 'god'...they need to get all that through the church and/or its leaders.

The catholic church teaches that salvation/forgivness comes through/from the church. The Bible does NOT teach any such notion....NOR did Jesus Christ. Period!

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I don't look down on other religions, I feel as if it means that much to you and you are sincere person then things will work out in the end.


>>>I have a hard time believing that God would damn the 67+% (i believe thats the number) of the world that is not Christian and have and never will be exposed to it their entire life. Some people are born into areas where there religion is all they know and i think thats okay.

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I dont "look down" on anyone. I pity ignorant churches who claim to be Christian when they in fact are not. According to their OWN Bible and religion eternal destruction awaits them. I actually love catholics. Some of the finest Christians I know are ex-catholics. If I didnt care about them I would keep secret that which I know.

According to the Bible, (which evidently you dont really believe in) God doesnt damn anyone. They damn themselves...and God only gives men what they desire and prove by their own actions that they desire...in the end.
The catholic view and teaching of God is HIGHLY distorted...when compared to the Bible teaching. One example of this was refered to in Ran's original post...the nonsense of 'eternal burning hell' and torture...which is not in keeping with the character of God or the teachings of the Bible. Not to mention the idolotry of worshipping Mary and other dead people...and elevating her to 'co-redemptress' for mankind. As a matter of fact according to your Bible Mary is DEAD..as in NO LONGER LIVING and WITHOUT THOUGHTS or KNOWLEGE. She cant do a thing to save anyone!! She is not and never was ANYONEs saviour. She has no part of anything that happens on the face of the earth or under the sun! She was the earthly human mother of the human Jesus...NOTHING more. She is NOT the mother of "god" the father....that nonsense is directly stolen from Babylonian pagan worship of Semarimis/Ishtar etc...'mother of the (sun)god' But who cares about truth, God, the Bible, or any of that when you have these neato made up pagan catholic traditions to follow!

Acording to that same Bible all men are judged by how much they live up to what they know of God, not their affiliation with churches and denominations.

By that same Book, one can use the name of Christ, the apostles, quote the Bible when its convenient or fits one's tradition...and all of that and it doesnt make one Christian. The very meaning of Christianity is hearing the voice of God, understanding His Word, and following His example....being Christ-like. Anything willfully less is something else....which is fine by me, just dont call it Christianity when its not. Dont give me a VW and tell me its a Lamborgini.


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" - Jesus

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Originally Posted by metalman

First, I dont have a church. I dont belong to one.
Second, there is no earthly denomiation (or affiliation) that will "save" you from ultimate destruction. Period.
But, real Christians already know this. The Bible is very clear on that.




I dont look at Methodists or Baptists as having 'pure' vision. They too have inflicted themselves with non Biblical teachings and nonsense that they pass off as "biblical", some of it borrowed straight from roman catholic nonsense and dogma....some of it made up by others.
Only a student of Scripture will learn the difference.




The Bible needs no 'interpretation' placed upon it. Its a unique writing.
Its a self interpreting book. For every mystery of the Bible another part of that Book explains it. If one studys the Bible, listens to Gods voice and His Spirit they know this. But just blindly following ANY tradition will not lead to this understanding.

The 'smoke screen' and 'foggy' approach to 'christianity' and the Bible is common. Its also typically catholic. The church doesnt wish its members to UNDERSTAND Scripture...it loves to refer to Biblical teachings as 'mysteries'.....which they are NOT. Anyone who can free themselves from that nonsene CAN understand the Bible...IF they WANT to. During one era the catholic church burned Bibles and killed people found duplicating them.
Why??? To keep people IGNORANT of the REAL teachings contained therein...that would FREE them from the BS dogmas of the church.


Its stupidly ironic that any people that claim to believe in a Creator God who has omnipitent power really think that same God cannot preserve His own Word of Truth and that somewhow its beyond His control and that man has screwed it up.
If one doesnt really believe in God or His abilities to preserve the integrity of truth in written form then why bother with any of it to begin with.

Jesus said 'My sheep hear my voice...they follow Me."




Therein lies the heart of the issue.
If you dont believe God/Jesus 'wrote' the Bible and that its His inspired Word then your wasting your time. And, youre NOT Christian...for that is the very essence of what it means to be Christian. Following the Bible was the example set forth by Jesus Christ....which to Christians is the pattern for all.
"...faith cometh by hearing...and hearing by the Word of God"

That was kind of my point to begin with....
Catholicism is NOT Christianity.....its a man made religion that has little to do with the teachings of God or His Word.....except it borrows names, and various items and distorts it to fit its own traditions.



I would dare say I likely know more about the 'linage' of chruches and doctrines then most here....likely you included. But that matters very little....because your actions are governed by what YOU know, not what I know.
And as you have indicated...you are "into tradition".
That makes you a good catholic....it doesnt make you a Christian.

The 'perfect' catholic is the person who will devoid themselves of any critical examination cathoic dogmas, or study of the Bible....and keep all such study & examination within the 'protection' of the church.
FYI this is the exact same concept used my Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones, and all other cult leaders. You cant have members thinking for themselves, or with a personal connection to 'god'...they need to get all that through the church and/or its leaders.

The catholic church teaches that salvation/forgivness comes through/from the church. The Bible does NOT teach any such notion....NOR did Jesus Christ. Period!




I dont "look down" on anyone. I pity ignorant churches who claim to be Christian when they in fact are not. According to their OWN Bible and religion eternal destruction awaits them. I actually love catholics. Some of the finest Christians I know are ex-catholics. If I didnt care about them I would keep secret that which I know.

According to the Bible, (which evidently you dont really believe in) God doesnt damn anyone. They damn themselves...and God only gives men what they desire and prove by their own actions that they desire...in the end.
The catholic view and teaching of God is HIGHLY distorted...when compared to the Bible teaching. One example of this was refered to in Ran's original post...the nonsense of 'eternal burning hell' and torture...which is not in keeping with the character of God or the teachings of the Bible. Not to mention the idolotry of worshipping Mary and other dead people...and elevating her to 'co-redemptress' for mankind. As a matter of fact according to your Bible Mary is DEAD..as in NO LONGER LIVING and WITHOUT THOUGHTS or KNOWLEGE. She cant do a thing to save anyone!! She is not and never was ANYONEs saviour. She has no part of anything that happens on the face of the earth or under the sun! She was the earthly human mother of the human Jesus...NOTHING more. She is NOT the mother of "god" the father....that nonsense is directly stolen from Babylonian pagan worship of Semarimis/Ishtar etc...'mother of the (sun)god' But who cares about truth, God, the Bible, or any of that when you have these neato made up pagan catholic traditions to follow!

Acording to that same Bible all men are judged by how much they live up to what they know of God, not their affiliation with churches and denominations.

By that same Book, one can use the name of Christ, the apostles, quote the Bible when its convenient or fits one's tradition...and all of that and it doesnt make one Christian. The very meaning of Christianity is hearing the voice of God, understanding His Word, and following His example....being Christ-like. Anything willfully less is something else....which is fine by me, just dont call it Christianity when its not. Dont give me a VW and tell me its a Lamborgini.


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" - Jesus

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I like how you overanaylze everything to the fullest extent to jump around so much that you might hit the nail on the head. I admit though you know more historical facts then i do, i will not argue that. But you are missing the overall concept that you have to respect that others won't agree with you when it comes to religion, you don't have the answer. NO ONE DOES




ALL Churches are man made, God did not come down and construct the churches and their traditions and beliefs. He did not put the men who preach in them in charge, they put themselves there and made that decision.




My point being is that you find something you like, that feels right, and you go with it. Whatever church you choose isn't meant to define you as a person, it is there to help you as a guideline in uniting with people of like mindedness so that with their help and experience you might find out who you are.




I don't understand how this hell and tortue you speak of is "not in the bible". I recall the book of Job where God can bring his wrath upon the highest believers at any point just to show that he is all powerful.

Even if you don't recognize the old testament, the majority of christians will regard that as part of the Bible.






So in short my point is that you can't understand it. So take it for what it is and discover it for yourself. Do not preach unto others and dismiss what they believe it. The righteous thing to do is not be negative, but otherwise be confident in yours and lead by example. If others like how you lead your life, they will question you and they will follow.

Pushing something on somebody doesn't make any one out to be a believer.

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Originally Posted by The12lber

That's actually not really how logic or science work. Having no evidence for the existence of something doesn't put its potential existence at an equal footing with its thus far observed non-existence.

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I understand what you're saying.

Just because there is more evidence of God not existing then the other side of the table must hold more weight compared to the side with faith and God followers, right?

Well uh, that's fine and all. Yet people with no faith in God can only bring up so many excuses/facts for it not existing. I choose not to believe in God myself, because I'm a man of Science. Still, that doesn't help me out much in this topic.

All it's good for is bringing up facts to disprove to a certain extent there ever being a man with a power level of 9000 who could do whatever it is he felt like doing.

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

Nope, never watched it.

But the overwhelming majority of people will tell you he is a real person, and just like i posted, not one necessarily with any kind of powers, just a guy named Jesus of Nazareth.


and ofcourse you can't prove God's existence, Faith is the entire basis of it. Faith is what keeps so many coming back for more, but at the same time it pushes away so many from the church because they can't see or hear it. It all depends on the type of person you are and if you are ready to accept something like that.


I personally don't know for sure that my religion is true, but i do not understand why someone would despite its factual basis WANT to believe something like there is no God and there is no point to life. If thats your idealism then why not just roll over and give up?

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It's not. All I want is to gain more knowledge and to see actually facts of this higher being.