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Thread: God vs. Science

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    Default God vs. Science

    This is a blog my sister posted up on her Myspace. Pretty interesting, of course I had something to say about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blog
    A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

    "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

    "Yes sir," the student says.

    "So you believe in God?"

    "Absolutely."

    "Is God good?"

    "Sure! God's good."

    "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

    "Yes."

    "Are you good or evil?"

    "The Bible says I'm evil."

    The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

    "Yes sir, I would."

    "So you're good...!"

    "I wouldn't say that."

    "But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

    The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

    The student remains silent.

    "No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

    "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

    "Er...yes," the student says.

    "Is Satan good?"

    The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

    "Then where does Satan come from?"

    The student falters. "From God"

    "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

    "Yes, sir."

    "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

    "Yes."

    "So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

    Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

    The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

    "So who created them?"

    The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

    The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

    The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

    "No sir. I've never seen Him."

    "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

    "No, sir, I have not."

    "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

    "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

    "Yet you still believe in him?"

    "Yes."

    "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

    "Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

    "Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

    The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

    "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

    "And is there such a thing as cold?"

    "Yes, son, there's cold too."

    "No sir, there isn't."

    The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

    "Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

    Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

    "What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

    "Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

    "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

    "In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

    The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

    "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

    The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

    "You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

    "It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

    "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

    "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

    "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

    The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

    "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

    The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

    "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

    The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

    "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

    "So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

    Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

    Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

    "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

    Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

    To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

    The professor sat down.
    This is what I had to say.

    Your new blog makes absolutely no sense. According to the student, cold doesn't exist. How so, if we can feel it? The students point when talking about the Brain was pointless, if said we can't see it feel, taste, smell, nor hear it.

    Well, let me take your brain out, and im sure I can take notes of all the 5 senses with one in front of me. With one in front of us, we can see it, feel it, taste it, smell it, squeeze it which will allow us to hear it.

    About the darkness, just like cold. Is only able to be described threw our eyes(1 out of 5 senses).

    There is NO proof of God, due to the fact that there hasn't been any proof that it exists. Cold and darkness have, faith will only give you a certain pleasure in knowing that something out there with powers lives and is here to protect you. Which is fine, but once you open your eyes and realized that when you REALLY need him, he will NOT be there to help you.

    EDIT: I just copy and pasted everything, so im sure I'll have some errors in my answer.


    Discuss...





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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11

    There is NO prove of God, due to the fact that there hasn't been any proof that it exists. color]

    Discuss...



    [/color]

    /error/ there is no PROOF of God...etc...etc... and i refuse to get into religious debates on IA... because according to most people christians are close minded.... however the same is true for people who do not believe... /statement have a nice day

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    Religious people should stop trying to use the fundamental tenets of science to disprove science or prove God... to me religion is about faith, not about trying to prove something, it's a leap of faith. I won't tell you about chromosome 2 and you don't tell me about God, we can be friends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11
    This is a blog my sister posted up on her Myspace. Pretty interesting, of course I had something to say about it.

    This is what I had to say.

    Your new blog makes absolutely no sense. According to the student, cold doesn't exist. How so, if we can feel it? The students point when talking about the Brain was pointless, if said we can't see it feel, taste, smell, nor hear it.

    Well, let me take your brain out, and im sure I can take notes of all the 5 senses with one in front of me. With one in front of us, we can see it, feel it, taste it, smell it, squeeze it which will allow us to hear it.

    About the darkness, just like cold. Is only able to be described threw our eyes(1 out of 5 senses).

    There is NO proof of God, due to the fact that there hasn't been any proof that it exists. Cold and darkness have, faith will only give you a certain pleasure in knowing that something out there with powers lives and is here to protect you. Which is fine, but once you open your eyes and realized that when you REALLY need him, he will NOT be there to help you.

    EDIT: I just copy and pasted everything, so im sure I'll have some errors in my answer.


    Discuss...



    [/color]
    yea i got this also but about the cold and darkness the thingy was right. there is technically no way of measuring cold because temperature is derived from friction of some sort and when some thing reaches 0 K it doesnt put out any heat or energy, and also can you create darkness. and i dont mean turning out the lights? no (and going blind doesnt count)

    and no your right there is NO proof of god. thats where faith comes into play. im not a lose minded christian, hell i have a lot of questions about my own belief. thats why i just believe that as long as you believe in something then for the most part your ok, cause god goes by many different names.

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    The arguments made by both sides in this piece are weak. Don't even know where to begin.

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    Since I've been on IA for two years, this topic always comes up atleast once a month. Just want to see what new people have to say about it, its a good topic for mature arguments. So opinion's of both sides are more than welcome.


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    Quote Originally Posted by yudalicious
    Religious people should stop trying to use the fundamental tenets of science to disprove science or prove God... to me religion is about faith, not about trying to prove something, it's a leap of faith. I won't tell you about chromosome 2 and you don't tell me about God, we can be friends.
    Agree totally.. its useless to attempt to explain faith.

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    The blog is actually really simple, and it makes sense. The professor was disproving God because God created all, and if he created all, he created Evil, which means he cannot be completely good.

    In the comparison, God is the same as light or heat. Just as the presence of light or heat makes you able to see or feel warmth, the presence of God is good. In the absence of light or heat, there is only darkness or cold. The absence or rejection of God is evil.

    The whole point of the blog isn't to prove the existence of God, it is to refute the claims of the atheistic professor and also use the same type of argument to challenge the theory of evolution and the professor's intelligence.

    The existence of God is purely a faith issue, and will always be a faith issue until I die and find out for sure. I personally believe in God for my own reasons.
    UGA: Everybody is laughing at us this year.

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    all i can say is what would u wana believe ? A science theory that says there is no god nor proof of him and if so then yull just die and perish but if there is a God then yull go to straight to hell for not believeing him... OR take a chance and try to believe there is a god and if there is a god you go to heaven and face him for what you have done in life and take the chances of forgiveness but if there isnt a god then yull just die and perish no harm done hmm......
    ill take my chances and follow my faith
    people act like its such a bad thing to think of god or that there is a higher power that envolves heaven or hell
    but from my opinion people who find it hard are just the one's who worry the most of going to hell cause either they know they have no chance or they live a life of sin and cant see the goodness of the world/love/faith

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    hell if you really want to think about it, what says we arent all in somebodies dream????? doesnt a dream not seem real?

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    For those that want to take this argument further. Watch this video, only part I. And than post up what exactly you believe, either some fairy tails or some facts. For those that like this topic, I highly recommend watching this video.

    http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


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    My theory is that we are not smart enough, to have a answer. In time we will be able to answer questions. If you look back 100, 200, 300 years ago, the mind set of Christians is not the same as today. Why? Because we got smarter. I guarantee you, in 100, 200, 300 years the Christian population will decrease.

    Thats all I have to say about 'God'

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    Christians, or the biggest hypocrites on the face of this earth as I like to call them, live in a fantasy based world.
    Much of life is based on logic, reasoning, credible evidence, and science. In a world based on these factors, faith or fantasy imo, has no place.

    Even with the two weak examples given, I still think that science is way more credible than faith. Way more credible than a man who stands infront of ppl once a week and tells stories in an expensive ass church, all in the name of God.

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    There is a god....

    I have proof.


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    Quote Originally Posted by XLR8NMR2
    There is a god....

    I have proof.
    Were you on crack? Or did you see him on TV?


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    Quote Originally Posted by XLR8NMR2
    There is a god....

    I have proof.

    god shall rain down upon you with hell fire and brem stone and they of lil faith shall beg and plead to this god and recongize him as the almighty before man

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    I want to issue a challenge to those that adamantly believe in their faith with undying passion. Since God and faith and all that other bs supposedly can get one through anything, next time you break a leg or an arm, have a heart attack, or simply the flu, get by on your faith. If faith is all you need then you shouldn't require the use of medicine (science), xray machines (science), or any other type of medical care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SE-Rious1
    god shall righn down upon you with hell fire and brem stone and they of lil faith shall beg and plead to this god and recongize him as the almighty before man
    Translation:

    If you're not with me you're against me. If you don't follow my rules, you will be sent to Hell for all eternity, day in and day out you will feel pain, you will fear things around you, you will forever live in fire. How so, once the human brain stops functioning our senses do as well?

    Now tell me, if GOD loves you, would he really do that?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11
    Translation:

    If you're not with me you're against me. If you don't follow my rules, you will be sent to Hell for all eternity, day in and day out you will feel pain, you will fear things around you, you will forever live in fire. How so, once the human brain stops functioning our senses do as well?

    Now tell me, if GOD loves you, would he really do that?
    yes god loves those who love him and so they shall not perish or feel the burn

    STUNTALLDAY and to answer the medicine question yes we use medicens when we are injured or have pain but these come from stuff we make that comes from the earth and who put that hear for us ???
    GOD

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    Quote Originally Posted by SE-Rious1
    yes god loves those who love him and so they shall not perish or feel the burn

    and to answer the medicine question yes we use medicens when we are injured or have pain but these come from stuff we make that comes from the earth and who put that hear for us ???
    GOD
    Sorry but if you really think that, im sorry for you. It just doesn't make sense to say that a non known power placed herbs here for us to find and thus create medicines. Really? That just doesn't make sense, Jesus Christ is thought to be someone who was born about 2000 years ago, hmmm who did the people that lived in the year 3000 b.c believe in?

    Care to explain to me, what a dinosaur is?


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    Quote Originally Posted by SE-Rious1
    yes god loves those who love him and so they shall not perish or feel the burn

    STUNTALLDAY and to answer the medicine question yes we use medicens when we are injured or have pain but these come from stuff we make that comes from the earth and who put that hear for us ???
    GOD

    You have a tylenol tree in your backyard? Really?
    Typical illogical answer. I wouldn't expect anything less.

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    the reason we cant see,hear,smell,feel, or taste god is because he is in his own dimension that our human brains can't decipher just yet. As we evolve and become smarter we can use a greater percentage of our brains. don't quote me on this but i believe we only use about 2% of our brain power,

    even the fastest computers in the world have yet to reach processor speeds that are equivalent to our brain power.

    God let's us know everyday he is there but if you have no faith you won't know or sense his presence. At one point in my life i didn't except that there was a god or a higher power but just look around.

    look at the color spectrum
    look up in the sky and realize that the universe is infinite and we have yet to really discover anything more than a lightyear aways, our camera's and technology just can't make it yet.

    Some of yall need to go to church.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11
    Sorry but if you really think that, im sorry for you. It just doesn't make sense to say that a non known power placed herbs here for us to find and thus create medicines? That just doesn't make sense, Jesus Christ is thought to be someone who was born about 2000 years ago, hmmm who did the people that lived in the year 3000 b.c believe in?

    Care to explain to me, what a dinosaur is?

    well if you knew the bible then you woyld know that all of man kind was doomed to go to hell but god saw that man wasnt all evil and some wur good so he gave us a saviour jesus and to whome shall trust him and ask for forgiveness will find there way to God... and yes god created us all unless you are one to think you came from a Monkey LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by StuntallDay
    You have a tylenol tree in your backyard? Really?
    Typical illogical answer. I wouldn't expect anything less.

    hell yeah man ive been growing it for years now lol
    nah he gave us the knlologe to combine things to make it tylenol lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by SE-Rious1
    well if you knew the bible then you woyld know that all of man kind was doomed to go to hell but god saw that man wasnt all evil and some wur good so he gave us a saviour jesus and to whome shall trust him and ask for forgiveness will find there way to God... and yes god created us all unless you are one to think you came from a Monkey LOL

    If evolution is not a proven fact then why is it that a monkey (primate) which is what we are, is a few chromosomes short of being what we are. They are closely related to humans, speaking in an animal sense. Wow. Please find another thread to participate in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StuntallDay
    If evolution is not a proven fact then why is it that a monkey (primate) which is what we are, is a few chromosomes short of being what we are. They are closely related to humans, speaking in an animal sense. Wow. Please find another thread to participate in.

    idk maybe that is something we shall learn in the future who knows maybe monkeys are the real aliens how should i know im just stating that untill i see a monkey talking,walking,screwing,eating like a human does in a daily life then its only Close not exact....but god isnt a argument and i dont want it to seem that way i have no room to speak nor am i trying to make ppl believe in him i just voice my opinion like all others do

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    Like I said, watch the video than tell me what you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11
    For those that want to take this argument further. Watch this video, only part I. And than post up what exactly you believe, either some fairy tails or some facts. For those that like this topic, I highly recommend watching this video.

    http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


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    Can someone direct me to THE scientific theory of evolution that actually makes sense and doesnt seem as far fetched as religion? Thanks in advance

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony
    Can someone direct me to THE scientific theory of evolution that actually makes sense and doesnt seem as far fetched as religion? Thanks in advance
    Think about it for a sec. I mean REALLY think about it. Do you think GOD placed us here, the "first" human beings were Adam and Eve, correct? So they produced children, those children screwed each other, did it again next generation, did it the next and the next? No way in hell man...

    Religion is a business, nothing more.


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    WOW!! deep conversation! Its kind of hard to comment on all thats in this topic. But let me say that God and Jesus are very real!!! For those that have truely recieved Jesus in their heart - we know it because we feel him. inside of us - and this is why we surrender our lives to Jesus, one because we love him for what he has already done! - saving the word from their sin! The sin that equals death. and 2 because we rec' the gift of eternal life. The only way to rec' this gift is through faith!! so for me my faith is very real! I know that the world sees all Christians as hypocrites and some of us are - just like there are non-Christian hypocrites. Here's my 2 cents.. We all have evil in us.. we were created in sin and this is why Jesus came into this world - to show us the light and the truth. The truth is that we all have a choice to make, life or death (eternally). I choose life! No one will have evidence until its too late! But I want to be in the number of believers when only one man determines my future "Jesus". I'll server him to the day i never die, haha!! get it eternal life, joke -but true! But hey, my comments are from my faith - its not to bash anyone - just to say whats on my heart! But, i will say to the guy that commented on Christians eventually being no more!!! Your 100% right - On The Day of The Rapture!!! But trust me - you wouldn't want to be here after that! I pray that you come into the light before that day and disappear with us brother. God Bless All !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDMEK18
    WOW!! deep conversation! Its kind of hard to comment on all thats in this topic. But let me say that God and Jesus are very real!!! For those that have truely recieved Jesus in their heart - we know it because we feel him. inside of us - and this is why we surrender our lives to Jesus, one because we love him for what he has already done! - saving the word from their sin! The sin that equals death. and 2 because we rec' the gift of eternal life. The only way to rec' this gift is through faith!! so for me my faith is very real! I know that the world sees all Christians as hypocrites and some of us are - just like there are non-Christian hypocrites. Here's my 2 cents.. We all have evil in us.. we were created in sin and this is why Jesus came into this world - to show us the light and the truth. The truth is that we all have a choice to make, life or death (eternally). I choose life! No one will have evidence until its too late! But I want to be in the number of believers when only one man determines my future "Jesus". I'll server him to the day i never die, haha!! get it eternal life, joke -but true! But hey, my comments are from my faith - its not to bash anyone - just to say whats on my heart! But, i will say to the guy that commented on Christians eventually being no more!!! Your 100% right - On The Day of The Rapture!!! But trust me - you wouldn't want to be here after that! I pray that you come into the light before that day and disappear with us brother. God Bless All !!!
    Not to sound like an ass-hole, but if i had a gun pointed in your face. And you started praying, for god. And I shot you, where was god there?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11

    Religion is a business, nothing more.

    Exactly.....

    Why do churches pay their ministers, pastors, etc, a salary?
    Why do ppl pay to go to school to learn how to "spread the word"?
    What's the need to build big, opulant churches year after year? Why does it matter where you worship as long as you worship, if that is simply the intent?
    Why sell "holy" water on tv?
    Why ask for money in exchange for praying for someone?on tv no less..

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDMEK18
    WOW!! deep conversation! Its kind of hard to comment on all thats in this topic. But let me say that God and Jesus are very real!!! For those that have truely recieved Jesus in their heart - we know it because we feel him. inside of us - and this is why we surrender our lives to Jesus, one because we love him for what he has already done! - saving the word from their sin! The sin that equals death. and 2 because we rec' the gift of eternal life. The only way to rec' this gift is through faith!! so for me my faith is very real! I know that the world sees all Christians as hypocrites and some of us are - just like there are non-Christian hypocrites. Here's my 2 cents.. We all have evil in us.. we were created in sin and this is why Jesus came into this world - to show us the light and the truth. The truth is that we all have a choice to make, life or death (eternally). I choose life! No one will have evidence until its too late! But I want to be in the number of believers when only one man determines my future "Jesus". I'll server him to the day i never die, haha!! get it eternal life, joke -but true! But hey, my comments are from my faith - its not to bash anyone - just to say whats on my heart! But, i will say to the guy that commented on Christians eventually being no more!!! Your 100% right - On The Day of The Rapture!!! But trust me - you wouldn't want to be here after that! I pray that you come into the light before that day and disappear with us brother. God Bless All !!!

    I've heard this same song and dance time and time again. I'm not trying to bash you but at the end of the day, you sound or read in this case, no different than all the ppl that I've heard before you.

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    For those that don't know, Im Maniac. And I want you to post up your thoughts on this topic, I don't give up so easily in any argument. So it'll be interesting to see how far this gets. I really want to see newbies post in here, see what they have to say about this. Always good to hear from new people. Stunt, you and I think alike man. We have posted alot more logical posts than other people here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11
    Not to sound like an ass-hole, but if i had a gun pointed in your face. And you started praying, for god. And I shot you, where was god there?
    oh but wait the avatar says ummm damn im confused alex lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by SE-Rious1
    oh but wait the avatar says ummm damn im confused alex lol
    Yeah, but in the Lifestyle section im not. Especially when the topic is about religion.

    Now back on topic, where was god there?


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    Quote Originally Posted by StuntallDay
    Exactly.....

    Why do churches pay their ministers, pastors, etc, a salary?
    Why do ppl pay to go to school to learn how to "spread the word"?
    What's the need to build big, opulant churches year after year? Why does it matter where you worship as long as you worship, if that is simply the intent?
    Why sell "holy" water on tv?
    Why ask for money in exchange for praying for someone?on tv no less..
    As a contrast to that...the only time in recorded Bible history where Christ ever showed anger it was toward those making a business of religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex11
    Think about it for a sec. I mean REALLY think about it. Do you think GOD placed us here, the "first" human beings were Adam and Eve, correct? So they produced children, those children screwed each other, did it again next generation, did it the next and the next? No way in hell man...

    Religion is a business, nothing more.
    Do you REALLY think everything that humans have supposedly evolved to today came from a big bang?

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    the religions of today will be gone in a couple thousand years and replaced with others
    Val for President


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