Nope. I have a single engine Cessna and a twin engine. Both are front-wheel drive. They will not take off because of that reason. Later, QD.
Nope. I have a single engine Cessna and a twin engine. Both are front-wheel drive. They will not take off because of that reason. Later, QD.
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Originally Posted by speedminded
I mean that I misread the original post, but then it got pointed out to me. what else could that mean?
nemesis950psi 1:47 pm : but id hit a tree with a hole if i was single
Not so sure about that Stretch. Which model do u have? I just searched from the Skyhawk on up and have not seen a single wheel-driven single engine Cessna. Searching the twin-engines next. Not tryna flame, just want to be educated if I am missing something. W/over 2000 flight hours this will be news to me.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Now that would make more sense
baby j, it's saturday afternoon...grab a beer, sit back, and quit thinkin you're talkin to echo...he's fuckin with you
I have a 1972 Cessna 172 and a 1977 Piper Navaho. Later, QD.
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LMAO!!! Stretch I'ma whoop that ass. LOL.
Assmunch.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Huh? Later, QD.
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Speaking of ECHO.... echo echo echo.
HELLO??? Hello? Hello? Hello?
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
You know what's funny... there are a LOT of people who could help ECHO try to prove why it will not fly. Why are none of the other people who voted no stepping up?
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
I was serious, Baby J. The plane will fly and I was kidding about the FWD and AWD shit. But I do have those two airplanes. One is at an airpost in West Atlanta. One is at an airport in Stone Mountain. Later, QD.
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I too thought of it like this and thats why I voted no. It should have specified.
It DID specify, reread the very 1st post again. Has that post been edited? No.
And again, it doesn't matter the size...if you don't understand that the plane will not remain stationary then you still don't get it. Echo argues that the plane will not move forward enabling it to take off.
^^ "ARGUES" was a great word choice. If he would DEBATE and be open to listening then he would get it. But it's BECAUSE he is "arguing" that he doesn't get it.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
oh so sad, 53/47% *shakes head*
hmmm ..
NY STAY HIGH !!!
The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane.
Maybe you should have said the plane accelerates in one direction instead of "moves". It forces the reader to assume either the plane is moving in place (no lift) or moving under its own power (lift).
I don't know, thats how I took the statement, that it was moving in place.
My bad.
Would you not consider a plane taxi'ing on a runway moving? How about the plane is 'heading' in one direction while the conveyor is working the opposite? Honestly it doesn't matter how you word it, if you don't get the theory behind it then no wording will ever be correct for it...
The 32 people that say it can't take off and fly are imagining a car on a dyno or person on a treadmill. They cannot comprehend that the wheels are free spinning on a plane and the plane pulls/pushes itself. There is no assumptions to be made, at least a dozen people have said the plane WILL move forward with examples of how and why yet most still argue that the plane will have no drag or lift....even after agreeing free spinning objects can move forward on a treadmill.
I understand the concept of the plane being able to move forward but I read the problem a lot like RB26powered did.
Planes can takeoff standing still with no motors on if the headwind is strong enough, all that matters is the relative airspeed. If a plane is on a treadmill, it will be moving but not covering any displacement and it's relative groundspeed (and thus airspeed unless there is headwind or tailwind) will be 0.
So say you've got a plane that needs 80mph airspeed in order to takeoff: if you accelerate the plane to 40mph and air and have 40 mph headwind your relative airspeed is 80 and the plane can takeoff. I dont see that happening on a conveyer with no wind, sure it will roll and accelerate but it wont take off unless it's a very long conveyer inside of a nicely sized wind tunnel.
02 WRX Sport Wagon
Will the plane accelerate (move) forward on the conveyor sir?
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
yes
nemesis950psi 1:47 pm : but id hit a tree with a hole if i was single
dude, you're thinking WAYYYYYYY too hard. You agree that the plane can move forward correct? So what on earth is keeping it from reaching whatever desired speed it wants to? Nothing, the conveyor has no effect on the speed of the plane, plain and simple. It can and will proceed forward, accelerate, and lift just like it's on any other runway in the world. period.
damn, i think i finally get it...whoa, i was sitting here picturing some dude controlling the treadmill speed and some dude with a radar detector checking the plane speed and all this shit and then boom, it hit me...i figured it would and i figured i'd feel pretty silly when it all made sense...
but thanks for the persistance, it actually paid off for once, and i really do get it...
physics was my favorite class but it was also my worst grade throughout hs...haha, go figure
Actually this is a lil too tall for High School physics. But if there is NE1 who said it will NOT fly and they took COLLEGE physics... well... let's just say that they probably "memorized" the answers to the finals rather than "LEARN" about physics. LOL. At any rate, glad you got it bro.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
The funny thing is...
I already acknoledged that it you were correct and it would take off, all I have stated since is why I sad no at first. Yet I'm being told that I really didn't read it the way that I did.:confused:
I was just trying to explain how someone else may have read it. You have to understand that your understanding of wording can be read completely differently from another person, especially with something as undescriptive as this was. Trust me, I understand the concept.
And yes, that short, undescriptive paragraph left a LOT to be assumed by anyone that did not already know the point you were trying to make.
To put it quite simply, the plane will fly as long it has adequate lift, so yes you are correct. Its not really that hard of a concept to grasp when explained correctly.
I've probably taken more advanced physics and calculus courses than anyone in here, sorry for thinkin hard, its what they teach us to do at Ga Tech.
02 WRX Sport Wagon
I've taken more than a few and it is quite easy to overthink the problem. The problem doesn't make sense in real life, it's not something that can actually be done, just a theory. If we're talking jets, a multiple-thousand foot conveyor and a plane with tires and bearings that can withstand spinning at twice the speed to take off is just not very likely. It's one of those if this and if that questions that has no reason to be asked or answered but makes people argue a lot :P
2005 Mazdaspeed MX-5 -1.8L Turbo
Unlike a car, the wheels do not propel the plane forward and are free spinning. They can be spinning backwards and the plane would still take off since the forward propulsion is created by the turbines.
Actually, you won't need a wind tunnel. You just need a conveyor belt that is as long as a typical runway, nothing more. Everything else being equal, the plane will accelerate to a velocity at which point it will gain lift.
Btw, not only have I taken as advanced, if not more advanced courses than you in college, but I've also flown planes as well.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
Actually, this question really separates those that can think on another level and those that cannot. It really shows who is capable of abstract thinking...
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
here, here is a picture for you:
Look at the wheel. It spins at the speed that the plane is moving forward + the opposite speed of the treadmill...
For those that do not believe that it will take off, answer these questions for me:
- The treadmill is only spinning the wheels of the plane, yes?
- The wheels of the plane are free rolling, yes?
- Can spinning free rolling wheels cancel out the forward velocity of the plane?
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
This debate is still up. That's good I suppose. I came to the realization that prop planes can't take-off on prop wash alone...
That said. If the wheels are free spinning, then 1lb of thrust should keep it moving forward on the treadmill no matter what the speed is right? As long as there is a counteracting force, no matter how small, the plane would at least stay in place if not move forward. Just a thought.
Give or take. I mean, would 1lb of thrust be enough to move the plane forward? Depends on the weight of the plane, really. It won't take much to overcome the friction in the wheels bearings, though. Basically, it will take as much thrust/power as it would going down a normal, asphalt runway.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
Another picture for those who cannot grasp this concept:
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
lmao.....that is great =-)
Bingo
However much power it takes for a plane to move is what it takes to overcome the conveyor...you've seen the commercials where the full size pickup tows the plane right? OH, or better yet...what about those little propane carts that tow planes you see all over the tarmac at an airport....that's how much power/thrust it takes to move forward on the conveyor.
^^ true, w/ the exception of what I posted in RED in my other post (wheel bearings are not 100% efficient, and the transfer of energy from the mill to the tire to the wheelbearing is not 100% efficient either). So it will require .0000000000000002 (random number chosen to show how little this matters) more thrust than normal to move the plane foward to a given speed on a treadmill than on to move it that same speen on a regular runway.
PLANE FLIES EITHER WAY.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
If they don't get it now, they never will...
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
wonder what happened with the model airplane experiment?
Echo never called or anything else...offer still stands for those who refuse to believe
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