Plane on a treadmill poll...

[speedminded]

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I TRY TO GET THROUGH YOUR(AND OTHERS) THICK SKULL)
you DO know what thrust is? don't you fly boy?

If thrust is great enough to over come the loss(because if the plane is shut off and put on the treadmill it will go backwords. Do you get that?) of land speed from the treadmill it can take off.
Anything less than that will result in a loud plane on the ground.
Now, initally(sp) the question was posed(I assume. b/c that's how it was posed b4) with the plane land speed(that is how fast the plane would be going on NORMAL ground. do you understand?) matching that of the treadmill. which(don't drop your sippy cup!) would NOT result in a flying plane.

So you are still saying that a plane cannot move forward on a conveyor belt? Whether it's 1mph or 1,000mph you still say it's not possible?

[{X}Echo419]

THE MATCHING IS THE SPEED OF THE PLANE (just like my wheelchair example when I hold the chair from moving AT ALL), NOT THE FUCKING THRUST!!!!! I DROPPED MY SIPPY CUP B/C YOU NEED IT MORE THAN I DO TARD! READ THE DAMN 1ST POST LADY!!!

ok, you're helpless.

go take some more gehy pics of yourself and post them in the health and wellness section.
I'm done with you.

[man]

maybe I should draw up a diagram

[joecoolfreak]

I saw you on 400 on the way back from the V, just before you got off at your exit.

I saw you as well, and if I am not mistaken, I left the V at the same time you did. I was right behind you getting on 85N and then I saw you again just before I got off of 400...Red fc right?

[TheSnail]

WOW, 19 pages! And thats not a good sign.

[BABY J]

you're on the right track.

So a prop driven airplane in a low to no wind can take off vertically ONLY BY PROP WASH alone. THAT is what you essentially just said!! In addition, they can HOVER AT WILL TOO!

ATTENTION EARTH!!!!:

ALL PROP PLANES ARE NOW CAPABLE OF VERTICAL TAKE OFF!!! PLEASE RESERVE ALL RUNWAYS FOR JET PLANES. HELICOPTERS, WE NO LONGER NEED YOU B/C THE REASON YOU WERE INVENTED WAS POINTLESS B/C WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT TURBO PROPS DO NOT NEED RUNWAYS!!!


BWA BWA BWA BWA HA HA!!! STOP IT MAN, JUST STOP IT!!!

[man]

I saw you as well, and if I am not mistaken, I left the V at the same time you did. I was right behind you getting on 85N and then I saw you again just before I got off of 400...Red fc right?

Yeah, didn't really notice you until then sorry. Btw I like what you have done with your car.

[{X}Echo419]

Would you agree that initially, the plane would not go backwards at the speed of the conveyor belt, though? Would you agree that it would go back slowly at first, and then pick up speed? All because of the free rolling wheels, yes?

it all depends on how fast the plane is going and how fast the conveyor is going...Variables!
in short yes. without knowing what the variable are I would have to say, "yes. it's possible. B/c without knowing Anything's possible."

So you are still saying that a plane cannot move forward on a conveyor belt? Whether it's 1mph or 1,000mph you still say it's not possible?

see above.

[joecoolfreak]

Yeah, didn't really notice you until then sorry. Btw I like what you have done with your car.

It's ok...I was having electrical issues and in no mood to play. Thanks on the compliment though...not many people appreciate a 15 year old 'retta.

[Ruiner]

{X}Echo419, try this...

Take a piece of paper and lay it on the table...
Take a matchbox car and roll it across the paper with your hand...
Now, while the car is moving across the paper, pull the paper back at whatever pace you are pulling it forward...

Does it make the car stop or spin backwards? Is it harder to push forward? Nope.

[Xan]

So what you are saying is --> apply brakes in a prop, increase power to full, then pop the brakes and take off in 5 feet (random #)? Not gonna happen buddy!

Have you tried it yet? I'm not sure of the maximum thrust a propeller is capable of delivering, but i bet it's enough to get the plane off the ground. Maybe not fly away, but get it off the ground none the less. Maybe something larger like a c-130 with multiple propellers per wing? I wonder if that would work? This would make a great Mythbusters episode.

Oh well. It's 3 o'clock. Have a good weekend everyone. Remember, noone's stupid. We're all just hard headed.

[BABY J]

Have you tried it yet? I'm not sure of the maximum thrust a propeller is capable of delivering, but i bet it's enough to get the plane off the ground. Maybe not fly away, but get it off the ground none the less. Maybe something larger like a c-130 with multiple propellers per wing? I wonder if that would work? This would make a great Mythbusters episode.

Oh well. It's 3 o'clock. Have a good weekend everyone. Remember, noone's stupid. We're all just hard headed.

JATO pack. Google it. Have a great weekend. (Jet Assisted TakeOff)

[JennB]

Remember, noone's stupid.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that one

[{X}Echo419]

So a prop driven airplane in a low to no wind can take off vertically ONLY BY PROP WASH alone. THAT is what you essentially just said!! In addition, they can HOVER AT WILL TOO!

ATTENTION EARTH!!!!:

ALL PROP PLANES ARE NOW CAPABLE OF VERTICAL TAKE OFF!!! PLEASE RESERVE ALL RUNWAYS FOR JET PLANES. HELICOPTERS, WE NO LONGER NEED YOU B/C THE REASON YOU WERE INVENTED WAS POINTLESS B/C WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT TURBO PROPS DO NOT NEED RUNWAYS!!!


BWA BWA BWA BWA HA HA!!! STOP IT MAN, JUST STOP IT!!!

I didn't say that you dumbass! in fact it was more of the exact oppsite....
wait a minute. Welcome to the ignore list pal. DIAF!

[speedminded]

Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman from Mythbusters are being contacted. They have the resources and the budget to show why it is possible for a plane to take off from a conveyor belt moving in the opposite direction.

[BABY J]

ECHO --> You said that a prop can take off under prop wash alone just by the wind being pushed over the wings. SAME THING!!!

[BABY J]

I won't ignore you ECHO. Please do some research tonight bro. Do not feel bad, b/c this is not something that every person on Earth needs to know anyway. But man, you're outclassed here. Take a break, jack ya dick, have a beer... then re-attack.

[speedminded]

it all depends on how fast the plane is going and how fast the conveyor is going...Variables!
in short yes. without knowing what the variable are I would have to say, "yes. it's possible. B/c without knowing Anything's possible."


see above.

How many times do i have to tell you it doesn't matter the speed of the conveyor belt, the force it takes to hold the plane stationary on it is the same....which is a very very minute (MY-NUTE) force compared to the amount of thrust put out by a planes engine. The conveyor can be going 1mph or 1,000mph and the plane will still move forward and take off like any runway.

[BABY J]

I didn't say that you dumbass! in fact it was more of the exact oppsite....
wait a minute. Welcome to the ignore list pal. DIAF!

READ POST 268, 272, 274, 276. You agreed w/ XAN on propwash being able to make a prop plane take off in 5 feet (a random # I threw out there)

[Ruiner]

{X}Echo419, try this...

Take a piece of paper and lay it on the table...
Take a matchbox car and roll it across the paper with your hand...
Now, while the car is moving across the paper, pull the paper back at whatever pace you are pushing the car forward...

Does it make the car stop or spin backwards? Is it harder to push forward? Nope.

Just pretend that the matchbox car with the free rolling wheels is a plane and your hand is thrust from the engine. The paper is the conveyor belt.

Heck, if you can get ahold of a smaller plane with wheels, that will work even better.

Let me know the out come. Better yet, put a matchbox car/small model plane with free rolling wheels on a conveyor belt and test it yourself.

[{X}Echo419]

How many times do i have to tell you it doesn't matter the speed of the conveyor belt, the force it takes to hold the plane stationary on it is the same....which is a very very minute (MY-NUTE) force compared to the amount of thrust put out by a planes engine. The conveyor can be going 1mph or 1,000mph and the plane will still move forward and take off like any runway.

ok, you are wrong. goodbye.

[joecoolfreak]

ok, you are wrong. goodbye.

Why do you think he is wrong...he's not

[BABY J]

How many times do i have to tell you it doesn't matter the speed of the conveyor belt, the force it takes to hold the plane stationary on it is the same....which is a very very minute (MY-NUTE) force compared to the amount of thrust put out by a planes engine. The conveyor can be going 1mph or 1,000mph and the plane will still move forward and take off like any runway.

If he answers my wheelchair analogy of "will I be able to push the wheelchair forward w/ my arm while the mill is at a bazillion RPM" then he will understand that. THEN all he needs to understand that the force I used to push the chair forward at a BAZILLION RPMS is roughly gonna be equal to the force I need to push the chair forward at 10 RPMS. My arm = jet engine. HOUSTON WE HAVE LIFTOFF!

[Ruiner]

{X}Echo419, read what I just put up there in terms the piece of paper and a matchbox car/smaller, model airplane.

[{X}Echo419]

Just pretend that the matchbox car with the free rolling wheels is a plane and your hand is thrust from the engine. The paper is the conveyor belt.

Heck, if you can get ahold of a smaller plane with wheels, that will work even better.

Let me know the out come. Better yet, put a matchbox car/small model plane with free rolling wheels on a conveyor belt and test it yourself.

me and joecoolfreak are going to put a small plane on a treadmill this weekend.

and I thought the wheels didn't matter and all that?

ya, know what nvm. I GOTTA get some work done here and TRY to enjoy my weekend.

[{X}Echo419]

Why do you think he is wrong...he's not

I'll call you later. is your name joe? incase someone else picks up.

[joecoolfreak]

Yes...name is Joe...and I am the only one home today.

[speedminded]

me and joecoolfreak are going to put a small plane on a treadmill this weekend.

and I thought the wheels didn't matter and all that?

ya, know what nvm. I GOTTA get some work done here and TRY to enjoy my weekend.

Planes have wheels fool. That's exactly what keeps the friction of moving on the runway from the plane itself.

[Ruiner]

me and joecoolfreak are going to put a small plane on a treadmill this weekend.

and I thought the wheels didn't matter and all that?

ya, know what nvm. I GOTTA get some work done here and TRY to enjoy my weekend.

The wheels are the MOST important. The most important aspect is that they are FREE ROLLING. Try doing what I told you, please. It will all make sense.

[BABY J]

Model planes have HIGH torque engines, and HUGE wing area designed to get them airborne in sooper short disances. Thrust vs weight ratio of a model plane is WAY higher than that thrust/weight ratio of a 747. That experiment will prove OUR (people who say it'll fly) point, only BETTER THAN A REAL AIRPLANE WOULD! NOT to mention, how are you going to measure the speed between the plane and the treadmill accurately?

Easier to do this w/ some1 on a skateboard, w/ the skateboard on a treadmill. Start up the mill, put your hand on their back and hold them stationary. Speed up the treadmill to max power, continue to hold them. Then walk forward (simulated thrust) w/ your hand on their back (thrust). They WILL move forward. So will a plane, which will generate airflow, which will provide lift.

Suit yourself Kid.

[man]

My arm = jet engine. HOUSTON WE HAVE LIFTOFF!

J is amazing

[BABY J]

YES... MY ARM IS A JET ENGINE. BUT IT'S THE RIGHT ONE NOT THE LEFT, BC I AM SINGLE... LOL. MY LEFT ARM IS JUST A PROP.

[man]

YES... MY ARM IS A JET ENGINE. BUT IT'S THE RIGHT ONE NOT THE LEFT, BC I AM SINGLE... LOL. MY LEFT ARM IS JUST A PROP.

Fuck, I'm not doin another one... asshole.

[BABY J]

LOL

[JennB]

I'm not-so-anxiously awaiting the results of this test.

From one of the links I posted: (it's a aviation website, the Lounge they refer to is the pilots lounge)

"It was an interesting argument, but as things progressed, more rational heads prevailed, pointing out that the airplanes do not apply their thrust via their wheels, so the conveyor belt is irrelevant to whether the airplane will takeoff. One guy even got one of those rubber band powered wood and plastic airplane that sell for about a buck, put it on the treadmill someone foolishly donated to the Lounge years ago, thinking that pilots might actually exercise. He wound up the rubber band, set the treadmill to be level, and at its highest speed. Then he simultaneously set the airplane on the treadmill and let the prop start to turn. It took off without moving the slightest bit backwards."

[joecoolfreak]

I'm not-so-anxiously awaiting the results of this test.

From one of the links I posted: (it's a aviation website, the Lounge they refer to is the pilots lounge)

"It was an interesting argument, but as things progressed, more rational heads prevailed, pointing out that the airplanes do not apply their thrust via their wheels, so the conveyor belt is irrelevant to whether the airplane will takeoff. One guy even got one of those rubber band powered wood and plastic airplane that sell for about a buck, put it on the treadmill someone foolishly donated to the Lounge years ago, thinking that pilots might actually exercise. He wound up the rubber band, set the treadmill to be level, and at its highest speed. Then he simultaneously set the airplane on the treadmill and let the prop start to turn. It took off without moving the slightest bit backwards."

I read that too....I already knew the theory behind it...but that is what prompted me to actually prove it.

[JennB]

Well some people just have to see things to believe them I guess. I know you're right but some people will never listen.

Have fun.

[chuck]

So very true, but unfortunately, people can't grasp this concept.

i can't grasp the concept of a stationary wing having any lift...no high or low pressure areas

[joecoolfreak]

i can't grasp the concept of a stationary wing having any lift...no high or low pressure areas

It's not stationary

[The Ninja]

I read that too....I already knew the theory behind it...but that is what prompted me to actually prove it.

how is that person sure that the force exerted by the treadmill (running backwards) and the force emitted through the wheels by the rubber band were equal? i coulda sworn that the original question said that fi the forces were equal