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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Default Change My View

    Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.

    Today's topic:

    Gun registries are not a bad thing.

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    Troll thread.



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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.

    Today's topic:

    Gun registries are not a bad thing.
    You have already shown repeatedly that you do not change your views even when a preponderance of evidence is presented factually.
    Of course, you are free to believe whatever you wish, even if it is a viewpoint that is completely detached from reality.

    You asked specifically about gun registries; however, like almost all topics, you can find positive and negative arguments concerning them. This makes drawing a conclusion based upon different facts completely up to the mindset that the individual has, and generally, the individual will draw a conclusion that his initial thoughts were correct. The real litmus test is how they affect the everyday life of the average citizen. Does having gun registries make the average citizen safer? If we look at the crime statistics in DC and Chicago, it would appear that going as far as bans do not have the desired effect of making the average citizen safer.

    If you really want to investigate this subject, perhaps you should start by reading the work of Gary Kleck. If you are just trolling, you won't bother to.
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Does having gun registries make the average citizen safer? If we look at the crime statistics in DC and Chicago, it would appear that going as far as bans do not have the desired effect of making the average citizen safer.

    If you really want to investigate this subject, perhaps you should start by reading the work of Gary Kleck. If you are just trolling, you won't bother to.
    Not trolling. And my views are very much open to change, it's just finding factual evidence around here is rare and it's even more rare that it's compelling. If I already know 1+1=2, you're not gonna convince me that it's 3. Maybe that's why you think my views are unwavering. Before I went to school I used to think the same thing as the typical sentiments around here. Especially as far as economics goes.

    If a registry doesn't directly affect my safety, does that mean their shouldn't be one?

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Not trolling. And my views are very much open to change, it's just finding factual evidence around here is rare and it's even more rare that it's compelling. If I already know 1+1=2, you're not gonna convince me that it's 3. Maybe that's why you think my views are unwavering. Before I went to school I used to think the same thing as the typical sentiments around here. Especially as far as economics goes.

    If a registry doesn't directly affect my safety, does that mean their shouldn't be one?
    I've given you facts and evidence plenty of times. You just refused to acknowledge the truth. That's your choice of course.

    What you don't seem to realize that you think that you are adding 1+1 to equal 2, but in reality you are adding 0+1 and getting 2. Since you don't understand that the two values being added are not equal, you never realize that your conclusion is incorrect.

    A better question is: Should law abiding citizens be forced to give up their privacy or rights for a program that has not shown any positive results?
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    Senior Member | IA Veteran Elbow's Avatar
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    This is still going on?

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbow View Post
    This is still going on?
    Not really. Going any farther will be a waste of time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.

    Today's topic:

    Gun registries are not a bad thing.
    no need, I dont think gun registering is bad at all. Guns should be treated like Titles to a car, everytime you sell it , you should be required to register that "car" (GUN) in your name.

    I dont buy the "the govt is coming to take my arms" scare propaganda that a lot of people buy into. Its absolutely asinine to think that a person can walk into a store in GA, buy a gun, willingly submit to a background check to the Federal govt, pay for the weapon, walk out, and if you attempt to sell the gun to someone off the street without the SAME requirements, all of the sudden its "INFRINGING MY RIGHTS BRO".

    Gun advocates think that there is some separation of between used and new that 1 is ok to treat 1 way, and the other completely different.

    David and Sin save your breath, not trying to argue, we have been over this time and time again. I respect your opinions and views. Just putting this thread to bed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    no need, I dont think gun registering is bad at all. Guns should be treated like Titles to a car, everytime you sell it , you should be required to register that "car" (GUN) in your name.

    I dont buy the "the govt is coming to take my arms" scare propaganda that a lot of people buy into. Its absolutely asinine to think that a person can walk into a store in GA, buy a gun, willingly submit to a background check to the Federal govt, pay for the weapon, walk out, and if you attempt to sell the gun to someone off the street without the SAME requirements, all of the sudden its "INFRINGING MY RIGHTS BRO".

    Gun advocates think that there is some separation of between used and new that 1 is ok to treat 1 way, and the other completely different.

    David and Sin save your breath, not trying to argue, we have been over this time and time again. I respect your opinions and views. Just putting this thread to bed
    im going to save my breath, youre wrong though.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Senior Member | IA Veteran Elbow's Avatar
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    I have to agree, I don't see why registering a gun is a bad thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    im going to save my breath, youre wrong though.
    opinions my bro, opinions
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    But I want someone to tell me why I should believe registering guns is a bad thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    opinions my bro, opinions
    indeed. one based on history and another based on a gut feeling about government morality.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    But I want someone to tell me why I should believe registering guns is a bad thing.

    -image-jpg
    no you dont. youre content being a pawn.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    indeed. one based on history and another based on a gut feeling about government morality.
    As i have said before, theres like 500 million guns in circulation in the USA. The govt doesnt have the resources to take them, period. The military would NEVER turn on its own citizens here. NEVER.

    just my opiinon. Register them at the state level, fuck federal.

    I have news for you, they ALREADY know who owns what, thats in the background check when you buy the gun new
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    But I want someone to tell me why I should believe registering guns is a bad thing.

    -image-jpg
    Theres 2 sides to the argument neither of which you can prove works.

    UK , Chicago , Detroit, NYC are poster childs for strict gun laws doing FUCK ALL for crime related to guns.

    Theres no evidence that proves registering guns will solve any problems, and theres no proof that not registering solves anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    As i have said before, theres like 500 million guns in circulation in the USA. The govt doesnt have the resources to take them, period. The military would NEVER turn on its own citizens here. NEVER.

    just my opiinon. Register them at the state level, fuck federal.

    I have news for you, they ALREADY know who owns what, thats in the background check when you buy the gun new
    you got me bro. we should pass the bill so we can find out whats in it.


    if we like our gun rights, we can keep them. yes we can!

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    you got me bro. we should pass the bill so we can find out whats in it.


    if we like our gun rights, we can keep them. yes we can!
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    so lets assume a gun bill will roll out just as smooth as healthcare law. what happens when the law changes after registration? perhaps a change to what is and isnt allowed?

    cali adds new guns to thier prohibited list yearly. they also propose that any gun that doesnt stamp the serial on a shell be prohibited... no biggie right? any change to a law has to go through congress right?

    who would enforce these laws though? what department of homeland security is big enough?

    i get it, i want my family to be as safe as chicago families, but at what cost?

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    This is a nearly impossible topic to draw any conclusions from because there simply is no way to prove either side.

    Gun bans just create a black market and those willing to break the law arent going to hesitate to break it again buy purchasing an illegal gun.

    Mike has a great point about the guns being registered when they purchase it from an FFL.

    I have no problems requiring all guns be transferred by an FFL and have the paper trail that make guns traceable to their current owner. The problem is, there are 500 million guns currently in circulation in this country and many millions of them are not currently owned by the original purchaser. That means there are over 500 million guns that would have to be exempted from this law.


    Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    This is a nearly impossible topic to draw any conclusions from because there simply is no way to prove either side.

    Gun bans just create a black market and those willing to break the law arent going to hesitate to break it again buy purchasing an illegal gun.

    Mike has a great point about the guns being registered when they purchase it from an FFL.

    I have no problems requiring all guns be transferred by an FFL and have the paper trail that make guns traceable to their current owner. The problem is, there are 500 million guns currently in circulation in this country and many millions of them are not currently owned by the original purchaser. That means there are over 500 million guns that would have to be exempted from this law.


    Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?
    I'm not sure what you are saying... You mean to tell me that laws only affect the people willing to obey them???



    Preposterous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    This is a nearly impossible topic to draw any conclusions from because there simply is no way to prove either side.

    Gun bans just create a black market and those willing to break the law arent going to hesitate to break it again buy purchasing an illegal gun.

    Mike has a great point about the guns being registered when they purchase it from an FFL.

    I have no problems requiring all guns be transferred by an FFL and have the paper trail that make guns traceable to their current owner. The problem is, there are 500 million guns currently in circulation in this country and many millions of them are not currently owned by the original purchaser. That means there are over 500 million guns that would have to be exempted from this law.


    Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?
    and when something you own becomes prohibited?

    you gonna be 1st in line to turn it in?

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    if you have a handicap kid are you gonna turn your guns in?

    if you go to marriage counselling are you gonna turn your guns in?

    if anyone in your household sees a therapist are you gonna turn your guns in?

    also jimmy.... you served in the military, turn your guns in, you have ptsd.

    have you actually looked at any of these bills????????????????

    if you have, please help me understand why you have one ounce of trust in the democrat regime who is proposing them.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    and when something you own becomes prohibited?

    you gonna be 1st in line to turn it in?

    Precedent for this to happen in federal law?



    If you have ever purchased a gun from an FFL, it is registered to the same level I could advocate for. Impossible to enforce for any firearm purchased before the law goes into effect though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    if you have a handicap kid are you gonna turn your guns in?

    if you go to marriage counselling are you gonna turn your guns in?

    if anyone in your household sees a therapist are you gonna turn your guns in?

    also jimmy.... you served in the military, turn your guns in, you have ptsd.

    have you actually looked at any of these bills????????????????

    if you have, please help me understand why you have one ounce of trust in the democrat regime who is proposing them.

    I dont remember seeing any bill that matched what I was saying and didnt expand on it. Could you point that one out for me please. I'm pretty sure I would actively support it.


    Oh and I have just as little faith in someone with an R next to their name. Have you seen that obnoxious BS they passed in AZ? Leave it to the GOP to hand over a political gift just as campaign season is starting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    I dont remember seeing any bill that matched what I was saying and didnt expand on it. Could you point that one out for me please. I'm pretty sure I would actively support it.
    j

    Oh and I have just as little faith in someone with an R next to their name. Have you seen that obnoxious BS they passed in AZ? Leave it to the GOP to hand over a political gift just as campaign season is starting.

    republicans arent the answer. theyre more than happy surrendering to democrats as long as the two party "choice" remains.

    theyve spent more time attacking themselves than they have democrats, even though these are the most vile and corrupt dems that washington has ever seen.

    back on topic... i posted the gun bill the same day it touched paper. please tell me that youre not delusional enough to believe a "clean" registration only bill exists.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Precedent for this to happen in federal law?



    If you have ever purchased a gun from an FFL, it is registered to the same level I could advocate for. Impossible to enforce for any firearm purchased before the law goes into effect though.
    impossible to enforce? explain.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    How did we get from registries to turning guns in? I did to say anything about that

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    How did we get from registries to turning guns in? I did to say anything about that
    to some people its the same thing, which is why I hate this topic.

    Its impossible for people with Sinfixs position to separate the 2. In their minds, registration is the same as grabbing guns. They are not comfortable with registering guns because they feel that is 1 step towards seizure and breaking the 2nd amendment.

    I dont feel that way, because I dont believe the govt will ever have that power. If they told the military to go door to door to pick up AR15s, does anyone actually think the high school educated soldier is going to say "ok, no problem, BRB"

    no. Not in my opinion
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?
    I used to run their Facebook and i knew the owners. I also used to do all their accounting/books. Without giving away too much information , Ill just say that the Feds know who are buying guns, more specifically the 4473s and who is filling them out. Even more specifically its the ATF.

    We would be routinely audited and it would go back IIRC 5-7 years in some cases. The auditors could ask for a specific gun sold from X years ago and ask to see the receipt , the paperwork filled out, etc.

    The BUSINESSES have to keep them on record for a long time (I think its 10 years) , the Feds cannot keep any list that im aware of.

    So if it came down to it, if they passed a law tomorrow federally banning all AR15s and make it retroactive, AA could refuse to give up the records of people who purchased AR15s or have a mysterious "fire" and rid themselves of all their records to protect the citizens.

    Thats why I think they should keep the record keeping at the state level, not federal. Let states police their own rules
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    to some people its the same thing, which is why I hate this topic.

    Its impossible for people with Sinfixs position to separate the 2. In their minds, registration is the same as grabbing guns. They are not comfortable with registering guns because they feel that is 1 step towards seizure and breaking the 2nd amendment.

    I dont feel that way, because I dont believe the govt will ever have that power. If they told the military to go door to door to pick up AR15s, does anyone actually think the high school educated soldier is going to say "ok, no problem, BRB"

    no. Not in my opinion
    trusting the government is like playing "just the tip" with a registered sex offender.

    it wont be a soldier.... it will be the DHS. the people goibg door to door will be happy to have a job. DHS here is hiring ppl straight off the street for $20/hr

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Do you honestly believe a govt DHS worker will be able to take Johnny Rednecks 25 AR15s from his house?

    There would be a civil war LONG before we got to that point
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Do you honestly believe a govt DHS worker will be able to take Johnny Rednecks 25 AR15s from his house?

    There would be a civil war LONG before we got to that point
    whether you believe they will or not, theyre trainibg and preparing for it. "test runs" have already happened.

    what do you think theyre gonna do with a registry? just put it in a filing cabnet? its a tool...... so they know where the "rednecks with 25 ar15s" are.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    whether you believe they will or not, theyre trainibg and preparing for it. "test runs" have already happened.
    Training for possible terrorist attacks is not training for govt takeover /coup/communism type stuff we are talking about.

    what do you think theyre gonna do with a registry? just put it in a filing cabnet? its a tool...... so they know where the "rednecks with 25 ar15s" are.
    THEY ALREADY KNOW. you dont think hes already on a watch list ? A militia list?

    Yes, i think they will use it as a tool when someone gets murdered to trace who last owned the weapon. You would remove the grey market and make it black market. Illegal weapons would be out there, but the grey market would dissappear.
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    its not gonna happen next thursday. its gonna be the common core generation, someone like blank's kids... raised on propaganda. Someone who believes the NRA is the KKK and the tea party is the new confederacy... at the current rate of growth, what will the DHS look like in 10-15 years?

    the campaign to demonize gun owners has already started.the "war on terror" will never end, it will just change targets. have you listened to any of the UN hearings where they say gun rights in America are a weapon of mass destruction and that the world wont know peace as long as citizens are armed? then someone like John Kerry all but kisses thier feet and promises that him and Obama are doing the best they can.

    the ability to defend ourselves cant be jeopardized by your faith in government.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Training for possible terrorist attacks is not training for govt takeover /coup/communism type stuff we are talking about.



    THEY ALREADY KNOW. you dont think hes already on a watch list ? A militia list?

    Yes, i think they will use it as a tool when someone gets murdered to trace who last owned the weapon. You would remove the grey market and make it black market. Illegal weapons would be out there, but the grey market would dissappear.
    in thier training exercize, who are the "terrorists"?

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

  38. #38
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    I just dont share your point of view thats all.

    I dont believe the US Govt will ever be that powerful over its citizens.
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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    Senior Member | IA Veteran Sinfix_15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    I just dont share your point of view thats all.

    I dont believe the US Govt will ever be that powerful over its citizens.
    your disbelief enables them. i hope youre right. what if youre wrong?

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    your disbelief enables them. i hope youre right. what if youre wrong?
    what if youre wrong?

    Look we already know what happens in Chicago and NY. It doesnt stop anything.
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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