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Thread: Florida drug tests for welfare law is struck down

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Man. If y'all put this much energy into finding the information y'all are looking for, we could make some progress.
    I'm gonna take a day off work and conduct a telephone survey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    your phone survey is accepted, but mine is not.

    got it

    So i guess Polls arent accepted, etc etc

    I think you also lost focus on the argument, you used a phone survey to be infallible and no one could question it. We said that phone surveys are not exactly 100% gods honest truth, can be skewed and misleading.

    You said not possible, and its accepted by the scientific community. So, I posted the same surveys with contradicting data. You now say its not acceptable.

    try to keep up
    You didn't use any of Blanks words of the week like pseudo-conservative, empirical research or cognitive dissonance anywhere in your replies so it doesn't compute for him.

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    I got a headache reading the nonsense that blank types

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    If you didn't want your house to be searched. You shouldn't have bought a house. HURR DURR.

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    But it is legal to buy a house. Fail.
    I got free clear tails with my ride.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    If you didn't want your house to be searched. You shouldn't have bought a house. HURR DURR.
    This is honestly something a brain dead liberal would say, so it doesnt surprise me to see you say it.


    My home is my private property. I can maintain it any way i desire. If my livelihood is dependent on the charity of others, i may be subject to their conditions. I need money from my employer, so when my employer asks me to take a drug test, i comply. If you need welfare to survive, then you should be willing to comply with whatever is asked to receive it.

    If you're accepting other people's money to survive, it should be a temporary condition and you should have to prove that you're taking steps to get off of assistance. The first step of that is being able to accept employment. Whether you agree with it or not, not using illegal drugs is a condition of employment in most of the US. If you're not in compliance with that standard then you're basically refusing 95% of the jobs in America. If you value your pride or social life over obtaining a job, that is perfectly fine and you're free to do that, but you can do it under a bridge and without a welfare check. When your survival is dependent on someone else taking care of you, a condition the majority of liberals suffer from, then you dont get to have all of your demands met, you do what you have to do to survive. If i was jobless and had a family to take care of, i would be ECSTATIC! to do anything i could to have someone help me. I wouldnt have too much pride to piss in a cup.

    This is a moot point, because you already accept the fact that a large portion of unemployed welfare recipients are on drugs and you believe they should be able to have someone take care of them anyway. Welfare is something you feel entitled to. You dont think their should be any regulations regarding it. Most people would call someone with your beliefs an idiot... oh wait, they pretty much do that already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    If you didn't want your house to be searched. You shouldn't have received a section 8 house that someone else is paying for. HURR DURR.
    Now you're getting it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300 View Post
    But it is legal to buy a house. Fail.
    And it's legal to get welfare. You fail again. LOL. Good try though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    This is honestly something a brain dead liberal would say, so it doesnt surprise me to see you say it.
    And the attorneys and judges connected to the case.

    Funny how we're all about the constitution until it's something we don't believe in. Weird how that works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    And the attorneys and judges connected to the case.

    Funny how we're all about the constitution until it's something we don't believe in. Weird how that works.
    If you truely believe this then I think you should consider the 4th Amendment violation of finacial records being required to receive welfare.

    You should also be against a background check for purchasing a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    And the attorneys and judges connected to the case.

    Funny how we're all about the constitution until it's something we don't believe in. Weird how that works.
    I am all about the constitution. Welfare is not a civil right. It is completely voluntary. Nobody is forcing you to accept welfare and you're free to decline services based on any reason you see fit.

    Is my employer asking me to take a drug test a violation of my constitutional rights? why/why not?



    Also, i missed the part where a judge said "If you didn't want your house to be searched. You shouldn't have bought a house. HURR DURR."

    Was this said in real life or in your fantasy world?

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    Ive said this 4-5 times and it doesnt seem to sink in..... not sure how i can word it any more clearly than i already am... but i will try one more time.


    The ONLYcondition of welfare should be the acknowledgement that welfare is a TEMPORARY SERVICE and while receiving welfare you must..............

    be
    actively
    looking
    for
    employment
    and
    prepared
    to
    accept
    employment
    immediately.

    Whether you agree with current drug laws or not and whether you agree with workplace drug testing policies or not.... they are what they are and if you are not able to pass a drug test, you are ineligible for 90% of the jobs in America. If you're on welfare and unemployed, you do not have the LUXURY of turning town employment for personal or recreational reasons. If you are on drugs...

    YOU ARE NOT

    actively
    looking
    for
    employment
    and
    prepared
    to
    accept
    employment
    immediately.


    I am not suggesting that the government be able to come in your home or force you to take a drug test. I would put all welfare recipients into a database where theyre available to be selected for employment. This job seeking service would work the same as any other temporary employment service. If you're not seeking employment or prepared to accept employment, no welfare. That simple....




    How do you think welfare should work? stick a check in the mailbox until the person informs you they no longer need it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    If you truely believe this then I think you should consider the 4th Amendment violation of finacial records being required to receive welfare.

    You should also be against a background check for purchasing a gun.
    I'm for both, and they're both very constitutional, but I'm curious why you think I should be against them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I'm for both, and they're both very constitutional, but I'm curious why you think I should be against them?

    Both constitute the same same warrantless search as a drug test does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Both constitute the same same warrantless search as a drug test does.
    Explain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Explain?
    Financial records are private and confidential property and a warrant is needed to compel their disclosure to the government.

    Background check is the same. A check into your background without probable cause.



    Before you go anywhere with this though, let me tell you I am all for both of these. I am even for closing this imaginary gun show loophole and require a background check on private sales as well as commercial sales done at a gun show.


    As far as drug testing goes, I understand its not cost effective so I am not a huge fan of it. At the same time, if you are on welfare you should be ready to take a job at any time as a condition of the handout you are receiving. If you arent able to pass a drug test then you are purposefully removing yourself from the job market and therefore shouldnt be eligible for handouts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Financial records are private and confidential property and a warrant is needed to compel their disclosure to the government.

    Background check is the same. A check into your background without probable cause.



    Before you go anywhere with this though, let me tell you I am all for both of these. I am even for closing this imaginary gun show loophole and require a background check on private sales as well as commercial sales done at a gun show.


    As far as drug testing goes, I understand its not cost effective so I am not a huge fan of it. At the same time, if you are on welfare you should be ready to take a job at any time as a condition of the handout you are receiving. If you arent able to pass a drug test then you are purposefully removing yourself from the job market and therefore shouldnt be eligible for handouts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Financial records are private and confidential property and a warrant is needed to compel their disclosure to the government.
    Not quite. Means testing is legal under US bankruptcy law

    Chapter 7, Title 11, United States Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Background check is the same. A check into your background without probable cause.
    Arrest records are public. No warrant needed.


    If you arent able to pass a drug test then you are purposefully removing yourself from the job market and therefore shouldnt be eligible for handouts.
    And it's not up to the state to make that assumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Not quite. Means testing is legal under US bankruptcy law

    Chapter 7, Title 11, United States Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Never said it was illegal. Only that it was no less of an invasion of privacy as drug testing.



    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Arrest records are public. No warrant needed.
    Background check encompasses a lot more than just arrest records.




    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    And it's not up to the state to make that assumption.
    According to the courts you are correct.

    Common sense says if you do something you know will disqualify you from gaining employment, you arent actually looking for employment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Background check encompasses a lot more than just arrest records.
    National Instant Criminal Background Check System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Common sense says if you do something you know will disqualify you from gaining employment, you arent actually looking for employment.
    Drug use doesn't legally disqualify you from employment. X

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    According to the courts you are correct.

    Common sense says if you do something you know will disqualify you from gaining employment, you arent actually looking for employment.
    All we have to do is telephone survey employers....

    " are you willing to hire someone using illegal drugs? "

    problem solved with scientific evidence. No "assumptions" needed.

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    I'm sure you posted this for a reason, I'm just not sure what it is.



    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Drug use doesn't legally disqualify you from employment. X
    https://www.drugfree.org/join-togeth...t-of-employers
    According to this, 84% tested as part of the hiring process in 2006. There are sources that put that number much lower though.
    Last edited by BanginJimmy; 01-05-2014 at 01:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    I'm sure you posted this for a reason, I'm just not sure what it is.






    According to this, 84% tested as part of the hiring process in 2006. There are sources that put that number much lower though.
    No biggie, if you're on welfare and being taken care of by taxpayers, you can afford the luxury of declining 84% of the jobs, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    All we have to do is telephone survey employers....

    " are you willing to hire someone using illegal drugs? "

    problem solved with scientific evidence. No "assumptions" needed.
    You're really hung up about the telephone thing huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Welfare is not a civil right.
    Don't be so sure bout that...

    Goldberg v. Kelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    All that case said was that an evidentiary hearing is require to cut off welfare. In no way does that make it a civil right.

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    Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    All that case said was that an evidentiary hearing is require to cut off welfare. In no way does that make it a civil right.
    I know how things can get lost in conservative interpretation around here, but what I meant was it isn't as cut and dry as it seems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I know how things can get lost in conservative interpretation around here, but what I meant was it isn't as cut and dry as it seems.
    Of course it isnt. I completely agree with a hearing being required to cut off welfare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Wikipedia, the Blank.CD historical library.


    Nice try but that case has fuck all to do with welfare being a civil right. Just claims that a person deserves a hearing before they can have benefits taken away.
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    It is literally an echo chamber in here.

    It doesn't "claim". That's not how law works.

    And "requires" /= "deserves".

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    It is literally an echo chamber in here.
    Gets pretty quiet when someone asks a pointed question or handily debunks someones remarks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    It is literally an echo chamber in here.

    It doesn't "claim". That's not how law works.

    And "requires" /= "deserves".
    Tacit Implication Doe. Hurr Durr.
    I got free clear tails with my ride.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Gets pretty quiet when someone asks a pointed question or handily debunks someones remarks.
    No....

    Quote Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300 View Post
    Tacit Implication Doe. Hurr Durr.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Cognitive Dissonance HERP DERP
    That's what happens when stuff gets debunked around here. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    No....





    That's what happens when stuff gets debunked around here. Lol
    If your idea of "debunked" is you are the lone person in thinking you have said anything remotely credible, then yes, yes thats what it is.

    BRB going to conduct 1 sided telephone survey to back up my previous statements , to which I will not accept any other phone survey as it may conflict with my attempt to appear intelligent and well versed on said matters
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    What , in this case , proves WELFARE is a CIVIL RIGHT.

    FYI , you dont APPLY for civil rights. Theres no criteria for CIVIL RIGHTS to qualify. Dont confuse the right to be treated fairly without discrimination to race/sex/creed/religion with equating that Welfare is a civil rights issue.
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    Must be getting hard to read in here

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    What , in this case , proves WELFARE is a CIVIL RIGHT.

    FYI , you dont APPLY for civil rights. Theres no criteria for CIVIL RIGHTS to qualify. Dont confuse the right to be treated fairly without discrimination to race/sex/creed/religion with equating that Welfare is a civil rights issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I know how things can get lost in conservative interpretation around here.....

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    AS usual, you have nothing to add. Go start another thread where we can do this dance again all over
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post

    This would suggest that you believe, and implied that the SCOTUS believes, that welfare is a civil right.

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