Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: Swiss proposing guaranteed minimum income

  1. #1
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default Swiss proposing guaranteed minimum income


    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  2. #2
    Who is John Galt? Echonova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Age
    90
    Posts
    26,989
    Rep Power
    79

    Default

    LOL

  3. #3
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    We already have a basic minimum income, its called minimum wage.

    Also logic is flawed, article claims:
    Every month, every Swiss person would receive a check from the government, no matter how rich or poor, how hardworking or lazy, how old or young. Poverty would disappear.
    Hypothesis ignores economic principle of inflation and that to have a middle class you must have a lower class and higher class. Not sure how he or she makes the leap from "everyone gets a check" to "poverty disappears" .

    Poverty as you envision it would disappear but it would be replaced by a new poverty when prices adjust. If I have $100 and you have $1, what makes the two values "worth" what they are worth? Scarcity. Monetary backing, exchange of goods and services, equity etc. If You are given $100 from me, it doesnt make me worth more, it makes me worth less, roles are reversed, you solved nothing.

    if you print $100 to give to yourself, you devalued both our currencies and hurt the poor more than the rich.

    Money doesnt appear from thin air.

    This has been tried, it was called Communism, and it didnt work, it destroyed the USSR.
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  4. #4
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    We already have a basic minimum income, its called minimum wage.
    This has absolutely nothing to do with minimum wage. The two are not the same.


    Hypothesis ignores economic principle of inflation and that to have a middle class you must have a lower class and higher class. Not sure how he or she makes the leap from "everyone gets a check" to "poverty disappears" .
    But that's not how inflation works.

    Poverty as you envision it would disappear but it would be replaced by a new poverty when prices adjust. If I have $100 and you have $1, what makes the two values "worth" what they are worth? Scarcity. Monetary backing, exchange of goods and services, equity etc. If You are given $100 from me, it doesnt make me worth more, it makes me worth less, roles are reversed, you solved nothing.

    if you print $100 to give to yourself, you devalued both our currencies and hurt the poor more than the rich.

    Money doesnt appear from thin air.
    Who is printing money? No one is talking about printing money.

    This has been tried, it was called Communism, and it didnt work, it destroyed the USSR.
    Ummmm, this has nothing to do with communism either.

    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  5. #5
    Senior Member | IA Veteran Sinfix_15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Age
    36
    Posts
    11,435
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    We already have a basic minimum income, its called minimum wage.

    Also logic is flawed, article claims:


    Hypothesis ignores economic principle of inflation and that to have a middle class you must have a lower class and higher class. Not sure how he or she makes the leap from "everyone gets a check" to "poverty disappears" .

    Poverty as you envision it would disappear but it would be replaced by a new poverty when prices adjust. If I have $100 and you have $1, what makes the two values "worth" what they are worth? Scarcity. Monetary backing, exchange of goods and services, equity etc. If You are given $100 from me, it doesnt make me worth more, it makes me worth less, roles are reversed, you solved nothing.

    if you print $100 to give to yourself, you devalued both our currencies and hurt the poor more than the rich.

    Money doesnt appear from thin air.

    This has been tried, it was called Communism, and it didnt work, it destroyed the USSR.
    Democrats are communists, they just changed the logo up a little.


    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

  6. #6
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Democrats are communists, they just changed the logo up a little.
    The Nazis weren't communist at all.

    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  7. #7
    Who is John Galt? Echonova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Age
    90
    Posts
    26,989
    Rep Power
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    The Nazis weren't communist at all.
    Agreed, it was the National Socialist Party.

  8. #8
    Senior Member | IA Veteran Sinfix_15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Age
    36
    Posts
    11,435
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    The Nazis weren't communist at all.
    socialist, communists.... progressives.... democrats.....

    all the same.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

  9. #9
    Who is John Galt? Echonova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Age
    90
    Posts
    26,989
    Rep Power
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    socialist, communists.... progressives.... democrats.....

    all the same.
    Socialists and Democrats can't see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

    Progressives want kids to eat a healthy alternative that they force upon them rather than Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

    Communists want kids to stop whining, there is no cinnamon. Enjoy your Bran.


    Therefore they are not all the same.

  10. #10
    Senior Member | IA Veteran Sinfix_15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Age
    36
    Posts
    11,435
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Echonova View Post
    Socialists and Democrats can't see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

    Progressives want kids to eat a healthy alternative that they force upon them rather than Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

    Communists want kids to stop whining, there is no cinnamon. Enjoy your Bran.


    Therefore they are not all the same.
    In one way or another, all factions support the government being in control of our lives.

    Democrats think the government should force me to feed them my Cinnamon toast crunch.
    Progressives think the government should force you to eat a cereal of their choosing.
    Communists will control what cereal you eat by being the dispensary of cereal.

    different tactics, different angles.... ultimately all in support of a common goal, government control.


    Theyre not different things, theyre the same thing at different stages. The socialist is the seed that sprouts into a democrat, that grows into a progressive that buds into a communist.
    Last edited by Sinfix_15; 11-19-2013 at 07:28 AM.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

  11. #11
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    This has absolutely nothing to do with minimum wage. The two are not the same.
    You should read your own article.

    The proposal is, in part, the brainchild of a German-born artist named Enno Schmidt, a leader in the basic-income movement. He knows it sounds a bit crazy. He thought the same when someone first described the policy to him, too. “I tell people not to think about it for others, but think about it for themselves,” Schmidt told me. “What would you do if you had that income? What if you were taking care of a child or an elderly person?” Schmidt said that the basic income would provide some dignity and security to the poor, especially Europe’s underemployed and unemployed. It would also, he said, help unleash creativity and entrepreneurialism: Switzerland’s workers would feel empowered to work the way they wanted to, rather than the way they had to just to get by.
    this is worse than minimum wage, he wants to pay you to do nothing. We already do that, we have EIC, we have Welfare, we have MC/MC and SS. If you started paying people who did nothing $20,000 a year, the guy who works his ass of to make $20,000 a year would have to make more money to compensate. Thats inflation. See next point.

    But that's not how inflation works.
    You should read about inflation.
    In economics, inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. Consequently, inflation reflects a reduction in the purchasing power per unit of money – a loss of real value in the medium of exchange and unit of account within the economy
    its exactly how inflation works, I dont know why you have such a hard time understanding this, you cant legislate the lower class/poor into prosperity. Not everyone can make 40K a year. Not everyone can succeed. WE WANT everyone to succeed , but not everyone CAN.


    Who is printing money? No one is talking about printing money.
    Where would the money come from. Money doesnt appear. Govt would have to tax and redistribute, or print.


    Ummmm, this has nothing to do with communism either.
    Communism thought that giving everyone equal pay and the govt taking care of you was for the better, in a sense, this is the same thing.

    Let me ask you some SIMPLE questions, dont go on tangents, just answer truthfully:

    Where would the money come from to pay people "minimum incomes"?

    How would you establish a "minimum income" salary level?

    How did you arrive at that conclusion?

    Despite the massive expansion of Entitlement Programs to help the poor, Poverty has largely remained unchanged in 50 years, True or False?

    If you establish a "minimum income", would everything else in the economy (prices, wages, goods and services) stay the same?



    Liberal view the economy in a vacuum because they dont understand how it works.
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  12. #12
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    You should read your own article.
    Nothing in it about minimum wage. Maybe you're reading a different one.


    You should read about inflation.

    its exactly how inflation works, I dont know why you have such a hard time understanding this, you cant legislate the lower class/poor into prosperity. Not everyone can make 40K a year. Not everyone can succeed. WE WANT everyone to succeed , but not everyone CAN.
    What does this have to do with inflation? And who's talking about legislating anyone into prosperity? Last time I checked, people on welfare werent exactly prosperous.



    Where would the money come from.
    Where it already comes from. Taxes.




    Communism thought that giving everyone equal pay and the govt taking care of you was for the better, in a sense, this is the same thing.
    Please do some research on communism.

    Liberal view the economy in a vacuum because they dont understand how it works.
    I suppose that would make you a liberal by that definition.

    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  13. #13
    Islander
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Atlanta,GA USA
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,439
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Nothing in it about minimum wage. Maybe you're reading a different one. .
    Blank do you actually have the mental capacity to process thoughts, draw up conclusions and dissect and interpret text as it is written? It is a serious question.

    The way you sound:

    BlankCD: "Man the sky looks grey outside"
    Me: "Well yea, it looks like it might rain"
    BlankCD: "Bullshit. I didn't say anything about rain. Where did I say that? You're going off on a tangent. There is no rain."
    I got free clear tails with my ride.....

  14. #14
    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Johns Creek
    Age
    47
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Blank is correct on this.
    Guaranteed minimum income is not the same as minimum wage. They are not related.

    Guaranteed minimum income means that everyone will get a set paycheck, regardless of whether or not they even have a job. People out-of-work would still receive a paycheck.

    Minimum wage applies only to those actually with a job, and at the low end of the payscale. This is a much smaller subset of the population.

    Here's a question though concerning guaranteed minimum income. Do minors living as dependents receive a guaranteed minimum income paycheck as well? What about infants? If so, wouldn't people just stay home and have more kids? If not, are you not putting a non-dependent 17 year old female with an infant at a disadvantage, since they would not have a guaranteed minimum income paycheck? I'm assuming that all of the current entitlement programs would be replaced by this guaranteed minimum income, or you would simply be creating still another entitlement program and bureaucracy, which would require still more taxes created to fund it.
    "Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen

  15. #15
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Nothing in it about minimum wage. Maybe you're reading a different one.
    Same principle, drastic ways to achieve outcome. Our system requires you work for money, this guys system requires nothing. Basic principle of economics is trading goods/services. If you pay people to do nothing, which he is advocating, theres no need to trade goods for services.


    What does this have to do with inflation? And who's talking about legislating anyone into prosperity? Last time I checked, people on welfare werent exactly prosperous.
    Difficult concepts for you to grasp i know. Im not sure any of this is able to be conveyed to you because you simply dont understand it. Attempt to dumb it down Version 2090129109

    You have people who are
    poor
    middle class
    rich

    Goods and services are determined by market principles , scacity, etc. Milk costs $3/gallon, gas $3/gallon, ferraris cost $200k , etc. Everything in an economy is based upon your experience, your education, your skillset. This is why Doctors drive better cars than Teachers , this is why Nuclear Physicists live in better houses than a construction worker. As a whole and in general, this is why certain jobs are paid differently. It takes more education and training to be a Heart Surgeon than a Mall Security Cop.

    Knowing that, if you pay the Mall Security Cop "X" dollars because he doesnt live as well as the Heart surgeon, you cheapen the Mall Cops dollar/buying power, and you cheapen the education and training of the Heart Surgeon.

    Its the definition of Inflation.

    When we made houses affordable for EVERYONE and gave EVERYONE loans, did the housing prices go up or down? They went UP. That is inflation.

    If you gave everyone in the USA $100k from the govt, would the price of everything stay the same? IF you say yes, then you are foolish to believe what this guy says is possible.



    Where it already comes from. Taxes.
    your answer to helping the poor, is to make people who have money..........poorer? Take from the haves and give to the have nots? What happens when the Haves run out of money to give to the have-nots?

    Vacuum mentality. Raises taxes to redistribute income doesnt make the poor richer. It makes them POORER. You have to have people to TAX to give tax money away. The more you tax, the worse it is for the economy, the less people get hired, etc.
    And who's talking about legislating anyone into prosperity
    its comically funny how you cant make the connection between taxes and legislation. Im sure you know that legislation is required to raise taxes right? maybe reread your civics 101 book again.





    I suppose that would make you a liberal by that definition.
    Answer the questions I posed, Im pretty sure its you that doesnt understand how the economy works.

    Let me ask you some SIMPLE questions, dont go on tangents, just answer truthfully:

    Where would the money come from to pay people "minimum incomes"?

    How would you establish a "minimum income" salary level?

    How did you arrive at that conclusion?

    Despite the massive expansion of Entitlement Programs to help the poor, Poverty has largely remained unchanged in 50 years, True or False?

    If you establish a "minimum income", would everything else in the economy (prices, wages, goods and services) stay the same?
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  16. #16
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Blank is correct on this.
    Guaranteed minimum income is not the same as minimum wage. They are not related.

    Guaranteed minimum income means that everyone will get a set paycheck, regardless of whether or not they even have a job. People out-of-work would still receive a paycheck.

    Minimum wage applies only to those actually with a job, and at the low end of the payscale. This is a much smaller subset of the population.

    Here's a question though concerning guaranteed minimum income. Do minors living as dependents receive a guaranteed minimum income paycheck as well? What about infants? If so, wouldn't people just stay home and have more kids? If not, are you not putting a non-dependent 17 year old female with an infant at a disadvantage, since they would not have a guaranteed minimum income paycheck? I'm assuming that all of the current entitlement programs would be replaced by this guaranteed minimum income, or you would simply be creating still another entitlement program and bureaucracy, which would require still more taxes created to fund it.
    Surprised you missed the point I was making, or not sure you are trolling.

    Minimum wage requires work, I said that, this theory is worse. It requires no work, you pay people to do nothing. I said that, like 4 times already.

    its is comparative in nature only because we have ways of paying people for doing nothing, we have welfare, EIC, SS, MC/MC. Our system allows you to at least work a minimum wage job and succeed, this notion doesnt require anything.

    maybe i should have made my point more clear
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  17. #17
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300 View Post
    Blank do you actually have the mental capacity to process thoughts, draw up conclusions and dissect and interpret text as it is written? It is a serious question.
    absolutely. But minimum wage and minimum income are not the same thing at all, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  18. #18
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    absolutely. But minimum wage and minimum income are not the same thing at all, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
    OK, forget i said that, look ill even go edit it. I dont want to spend 20 pages of you ignoring everything and only debating minimum income vs minimum wage , despite me ALREADY pointing out the difference.

    Minimum Wage= Minimum amount of pay for a skill/job in the USA.
    Minimum Income= Notion that you can pay anyone , regardless of employment , a minimum amount of money to survive , as the article states.

    Great, got that covered, all you have to do is answer this now:

    Where would the money come from to pay people "minimum incomes"?

    How would you establish a "minimum income" salary level?

    How did you arrive at that conclusion?

    Despite the massive expansion of Entitlement Programs to help the poor, Poverty has largely remained unchanged in 50 years, True or False?

    If you establish a "minimum income", would everything else in the economy (prices, wages, goods and services) stay the same?
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  19. #19
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Blank is correct on this.
    Guaranteed minimum income is not the same as minimum wage. They are not related.

    Guaranteed minimum income means that everyone will get a set paycheck, regardless of whether or not they even have a job. People out-of-work would still receive a paycheck.

    Minimum wage applies only to those actually with a job, and at the low end of the payscale. This is a much smaller subset of the population.

    Here's a question though concerning guaranteed minimum income. Do minors living as dependents receive a guaranteed minimum income paycheck as well? What about infants? If so, wouldn't people just stay home and have more kids? If not, are you not putting a non-dependent 17 year old female with an infant at a disadvantage, since they would not have a guaranteed minimum income paycheck? I'm assuming that all of the current entitlement programs would be replaced by this guaranteed minimum income, or you would simply be creating still another entitlement program and bureaucracy, which would require still more taxes created to fund it.
    I'm surprised you're the only one taking this post seriously. This would absolutely be a replacement for current social welfare programs. And I'm not exactly sure if be for EVERYONE getting getting minimum income. Maybe just taxpayers or anyone older than 15...

    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  20. #20
    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Johns Creek
    Age
    47
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Surprised you missed the point I was making, or not sure you are trolling.

    Minimum wage requires work, I said that, this theory is worse. It requires no work, you pay people to do nothing. I said that, like 4 times already.

    its is comparative in nature only because we have ways of paying people for doing nothing, we have welfare, EIC, SS, MC/MC. Our system allows you to at least work a minimum wage job and succeed, this notion doesnt require anything.

    maybe i should have made my point more clear
    No, I did not miss your point. I simply clarified that minimum wage is not the same as guaranteed minimum income (GMI).
    GMI is a massive entitlement. Minimum wage is not considered an entitlement.

    I did not state that I was for the GMI approach, only that Blank was correct that they were not the same.
    "Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen

  21. #21
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    This would absolutely be a replacement for current social welfare programs. And I'm not exactly sure if be for EVERYONE getting getting minimum income. Maybe just taxpayers or anyone older than 15...
    So , eliminate all social programs, welfare, foodstamps, etc and just repalce it with GMI?

    Cost analysis?

    What would this "GMI" be? can you give a number?



    So only taxpayers could benefit, so that means you are subsidizing low income EARNERS (notice i said earners) for being poor.Again, i thought we already did that.
    This would be the same as raising the minimum wage to $20 or whatever but having it be subsidized by the govt.


    until you answer the other questions I asked, this is all just fairies and pixie dust because it has no feasible way to work
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  22. #22
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    No, I did not miss your point. I simply clarified that minimum wage is not the same as guaranteed minimum income (GMI).
    GMI is a massive entitlement. Minimum wage is not considered an entitlement.

    I did not state that I was for the GMI approach, only that Blank was correct that they were not the same.
    Im well aware the difference, my post wasnt about the difference, it was to show the difference in 2 systems.

    Guaranteed Minimum INCOME in this country = Minimum Wage. I was merely advocating for our version of the system. Again, sorry if that wasnt more clear.
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  23. #23
    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Johns Creek
    Age
    47
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I'm surprised you're the only one taking this post seriously. This would absolutely be a replacement for current social welfare programs. And I'm not exactly sure if be for EVERYONE getting getting minimum income. Maybe just taxpayers or anyone older than 15...
    Just like all entitlement programs, HOW it is implemented is critical to the viability of the entitlement.
    I seriously doubt that Congressional Democrats would vote to collapse all of the entitlement programs into this one entitlement.
    To play devil's advocate:
    The estimated 2012 US population number is 313,914,040
    23.5% of that population is under 18, and 13.7% are over 65.
    The median household income is $52,762, and there are and average of 2.6 people per household, with the per capita income at $27,915.
    Based upon those known figures, we can calculate that approximately 238,574,670 (those over 18 years of age) would be receiving a GMI check if the system was implemented. If we gave each person the amount determined as the US federal poverty guidelines individual rate (Federal Poverty Guidelines), then the amount would be $11,490 for each person.
    This comes to a total of 2,741,222,962,896 ($2.7T) that the US federal government would be paying out each year as GMI. That happens to be the same amount that the US federal government took in as revenue.
    Basically, if we forsake having a national defense system, don't fix our infrastructure, don't spend on our highway system, etc, etc, etc. - then we can give everyone a paycheck.

    Oh wait, there's a problem.
    Obamacare is projected to add $1.8 trillion to federal health care spending by 2023.
    Where are we going to cut?
    "Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen

  24. #24
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Dont use numbers, it confuses that side too much.

    Simple, they think they can tax another 20-30% of the evil rich people to pay for it.

    Money grows on trees. People dont retire, prices dont change, Rich can ALWAYS do with a little less. They live in a vacuum where no policies affect anyone else but the people they are enacting the policy for
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  25. #25
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Just like all entitlement programs, HOW it is implemented is critical to the viability of the entitlement.
    I seriously doubt that Congressional Democrats would vote to collapse all of the entitlement programs into this one entitlement.
    To play devil's advocate
    Probably should've been clearer. Not 240 million people.

    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  26. #26
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    12,103
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Dont use numbers, it confuses that side too much.
    What side? And what are you confused about?

    NIKON Squad member 01

    I HAVE SUBS AND CAMERAS AND LENSES FO SALE
    OF*C
    OEMFitment Crew Memeber 01

  27. #27
    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Johns Creek
    Age
    47
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Probably should've been clearer. Not 240 million people.
    So, GMI only for a chosen few? Exactly who should be given GMI (you could have just clarified in your above post)?

    From the article that you posted, it was proposing it for all citizens. Did you miss the following excerpt?

    ... suggested guaranteeing $10,000 a year to anyone meeting the following conditions: be American, be over 21, stay out of jail...

    What qualifications would you suggest, and how many would qualify?
    "Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen

  28. #28
    Moderator BanginJimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hiram, GA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    7,499
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    So, GMI only for a chosen few? Exactly who should be given GMI (you could have just clarified in your above post)?

    From the article that you posted, it was proposing it for all citizens. Did you miss the following excerpt?

    ... suggested guaranteeing $10,000 a year to anyone meeting the following conditions: be American, be over 21, stay out of jail...

    What qualifications would you suggest, and how many would qualify?

    He has a problem with that whole specifics thing. Speaking only in general terms allows his "I didnt take a specific position" exit strategy after being proven wrong.



    Wanna hear something funny? I am in favor of the GMI under a very strict set of guidelines.

    1. GMI is indexed to 200% of the federal poverty level.
    2. GMI is applied for in the same manner that your W4 is done.
    3. GMI is available only for those with a HS diploma or GED and a clean criminal record.
    4. GMI is available only to those over 18 that do not qualify for Social security or disability.
    5. GMI is available only to the head of household. (kids of dependents can be claimed as dependents for GMI purposes)
    6. GMI replaces all forms of welfare for new applicants. GMI is not available for anyone currently receiving welfare benefits.
    7. ANY kind of GMI fraud or attempted fraud carries a minimum penalty of a lifetime ban from any welfare benefit. This includes GMI and current welfare recipients.
    8. GMI cannot be deducted from for tax purposes.
    9. GMI recipients working less than 40 hours per week MUST be actively looking for full time work.

  29. #29
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    that would be racist , you are discriminating against the poor.

    /Blank.cd response
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  30. #30
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    He has a problem with that whole specifics thing. Speaking only in general terms allows his "I didnt take a specific position" exit strategy after being proven wrong.
    He wont answer any specific questions because he doesnt know the answer. They live in a vacuum where all things can be paid for with imaginary money or taxing rich people and assume all rich people continue to pay whatever is asked of them.

    When the solution to a problem is to rob peter to pay paul, then rob paul to pay peter, you arent about solutions, you are about pandering and pyramid schemes that have already proven not to work.
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

  31. #31
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Atlanta Centennial Park
    Age
    38
    Posts
    33,102
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    What side? And what are you confused about?
    Simple questions man, can you give answers?

    Where would the money come from to pay people "minimum incomes"?

    How would you establish a "minimum income" salary level?

    How did you arrive at that conclusion?

    Despite the massive expansion of Entitlement Programs to help the poor, Poverty has largely remained unchanged in 50 years, True or False?

    If you establish a "minimum income", would everything else in the economy (prices, wages, goods and services) stay the same?
    Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
    -www.usedbarcode.net

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
ImportAtlanta is a community of gearheads and car enthusiasts. It does not matter what kind of car or bike you drive, IA is an open community for any gearhead. Whether you're looking for advice on a performance build or posting your wheels for sale, you're welcome here!
Announcement
Welcome back to ImportAtlanta. We are currently undergoing many changes, so please report any issues you encounter with the site using the 'Contact Us' button below. Thank you!