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Thread: Obamacare and your premiums.

  1. #201
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    The media is an instrumental tool in deciding elections. If they were honest, Obama wouldnt be president. That's a pretty big deal IMO.
    Isn't that your opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Could you clarify what you mean by "modify without congressional approval"?
    Asked

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Delaying the mandates, changing the law and its implementation.

    last week he told the Insurance companies its ok to break his own law so people wouldnt lose their own insurance. He basically is circumventing pieces of legislation to appease voters when the backlash gets more than he can handle
    Answered

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Isn't that your opinion?
    The porton of his comment about the media being "instrumental" in elections isnt opinion and you know it. We all know you arent stupid so quit acting like it. Everyone with even a limited knowledge of politics knows the media, mainstream and alternative, plays a dramatic role in any election cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    The portion of his comment about the media being "instrumental" in elections isnt opinion and you know it. We all know you arent stupid so quit acting like it. Everyone with even a limited knowledge of politics knows the media, mainstream and alternative, plays a dramatic role in any election cycle.
    But this part

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    If they were honest, Obama wouldnt be president. That's a pretty big deal IMO.
    is pure opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    But this part



    is pure opinion

    Yes, its opinion. I dont think its very far fetched though. Given the same scrutiny that McCain and Romney got, its highly plausible he wouldnt have been elected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Delaying the mandates, changing the law and its implementation.

    last week he told the Insurance companies its ok to break his own law so people wouldnt lose their own insurance. He basically is circumventing pieces of legislation to appease voters when the backlash gets more than he can handle
    I guess he isnt going to answer this.


    Another bullet point for this one. His admin delayed the small business exchange, which is part of the ACA.


    Since when does the president have the authority to unilaterally change the law?

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    CNN is reporting now that, according to their polling, only 35% of Americans actually still support Obamacare.
    62% oppose the ACA.

    CNN Poll: Health care law support drops to all-time low – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

    Other numbers:
    42% say they will be personally worse off under Obamacare, with 16% saying the law will help them.

    As for Obama's promise that you could keep your same doctor and health plan - 35% are not able to see their same doctor.

    This was a telephone survey, so it meets blank's acceptance criteria and is to be considered scientific.
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    Now, if you don't already know - if you want coverage through the exchanges on Jan 1st, you have to sign up and pay for your plan by today.
    Obamacare deadlines: Pick plan now for January 1 coverage - Dec. 22, 2013

    So far, just over 1 million have signed up in healthcare.gov. No word on if they all paid up yet.

    No one knows where the other 46 million uninsured Americans, who Obama said were calling for insurance, have gone to find their insurance.
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    Its working doe.
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Shit. Deadline is today. And I was gonna get on the exchange. Oh well. Another year of paying out of my ass for something I don't use.

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    Now on CNN: Obama signs up for Obamacare, even though his healthcare is taken care of through the military and he has a doctor devoted to his care on every trip.
    Also, the government is now extending the deadline to sign up from today until tomorrow.
    Obamacare deadline extended by one day - Dec. 22, 2013


    I was wrong earlier when I stated over a million had signed upon the federal site, healthcare.gov. Turns out that is the total of all people who have signed up for private insurance on both the federal and state exchanges, but it appears that is only a sign up number, not a number of those who have already paid for thier coverage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Shit. Deadline is today. And I was gonna get on the exchange. Oh well. Another year of paying out of my ass for something I don't use.
    You have until tomorrow to select your plan, and while you are supposed to pay for it by tomorrow, many insurers are giving you until Jan 10th to pay for it.
    So, go ahead and sign up now and let us know how that goes.
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    PER CNN



    Obamacare may finally be in full swing, but most Americans are still going to be paying more for health care.

    Health care premiums for large employer-sponsored plans are expected to rise by as much as 7%, compared to a roughly 3.3% increase in 2013, according to an analysis by Aon Hewitt.

    Average employee costs, including premiums and out-of-pocket expenses such as co-pays and deductibles, are expected to reach nearly $5,000, an increase of almost 150% from a decade ago.

    "We've seen that consistently year-over-year, more and more of the cost is being shifted to employees, something we expect to continue going forward," said Geoffrey Kuhn, a senior vice president at Aon Hewitt.
    Premiums not rising doe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    PER CNN





    Premiums not rising doe
    If only someone would have predicted this 3 years ago we might have been able to avoid it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    "Insurance companies appear to be [cancelling policies] for a variety of reasons; some are pulling all their plans from certain states where they have fewer subscribers in order to save money."

    And...

    4 Debunking Obamacare myths: Both sides get it wrong - CNN.com
    Obamacare

    Let’s say that you are a healthy, hardworking 54-year-old single adult in San Francisco earning $45,960 per year—the income level at which federal Obamacare subsidies from your fellow taxpayers are no longer available to help you pay your monthly health-insurance premiums. As a San Francisco resident, you are permitted to choose from among 16 separate Obamacare-compliant insurance plans. Four of these are so-called “Bronze” plans, low-level policies whose average premium will cost you $453 per month, or $5,436 per year. In exchange for those premium payments, a Bronze plan will cover 60% of your medical expenses—that is, after you meet the $5,000 out-of-pocket annual deductible. For this priceless peace of mind, you can thank Obamacare—the Democratic Party’s gift to a grateful America.

    Let us contrast your case with that of Joe, another 54-year-old single individual in San Francisco, who happens to be an obese alcoholic and longtime drug abuser with little ambition and no history of ever having held a full-time job for very long. Joe currently earns $15,860 per year, which is just above the income level that would have made him eligible for Medicaid. Because Joe doesn’t qualify for Medicaid, Obamacare stipulates that he must now purchase his own health insurance—thereby proving that, contrary to the shrill rhetoric of conservative naysayers, no one gets an undeserved free ride under Obamacare.

    Like you, Joe can choose from among 16 separate plans that are available to San Francisco residents. But unlike you, he is eligible to receive federal government subsidies—money that other, wealthier Americans, such as you, magnanimously “contribute” toward the healthcare expenses of financially “disadvantaged” individuals. If he selects one of the four Bronze plans (whose average monthly premium is $453), Joe qualifies for $452 in average monthly subsidies—meaning that, regardless of which Bronze plan he chooses, he will pay a monthly premium of exactly $1. You read that correctly. The very same healthcare plan that would cost you $453 per month, is available to Joe for $1 per month—i.e., the cost of three oatmeal-raisin cookies at your local Subway sandwich shop. Over the course of a year, you will pay a total of $5,436 in policy premiums, while Joe, who sadly failed to qualify for free healthcare through Medicaid, will pay his own fair share of $12. This is all in the interest of social justice, you understand. And please, don’t even think about whispering that Obamacare might be some sort of “wealth redistribution” scheme, lest you expose yourself as a petulant reactionary who doesn’t give a damn about sick people.

    Oh, imagine what a wonderful world it would be if we could somehow transfer this same brand of Obamacare-style fairness to realms other than health insurance. In such a utopia, for example, the $25,000 new automobile that you purchase would cost a deserving soul like Joe just $55. Your $100 nightly fee at a motel would be 45 cents for Joe. And the $25 hardcover book you purchase at Barnes & Noble would set Joe back about a nickel. What’s that, you say? These items aren’t life-and-death necessities, like medical care, and thus don’t serve as useful analogies? Good point! Let’s stick with real necessities, such as food and housing: The same load of groceries that costs you $250 would cost Joe 55 cents. Your $1,200-per-month rent or mortgage payment would be available to Joe for about $2.65 a month. And the $250,000 home you seek to buy could be Joe’s for about $552. Yes, we’re talking about a veritable paradise of fairness!
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    I have gotten to the point that I skim the articles and read the comments word for word.


    If anyone has any questions as to why this country is in the shape its in now, just read the comments. If that doesnt answer your questions, you are part of the problem.

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    CBO: O-Care slowing growth, contributing to job losses

    The new healthcare law will slow economic growth over the next decade, costing the nation about 2.5 million jobs and contributing to a $1 trillion increase in projected deficits, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said in a report released Tuesday.

    The nonpartisan agency’s report found the healthcare law’s negative effects on the economy will be “substantially larger” than what it had previously anticipated.

    The CBO is now estimating the law will reduce labor force compensation by 1 percent from 2017-2024, twice the reduction it previously had projected.
    This will decrease the number of full-time equivalent jobs in 2021 by 2.3 million, the CBO said. It had previously estimated the decrease would be 800,000.

    The budget scorekeeper said this decrease would be caused partly by people leaving the workforce in response to lower wages offered by employers and increased insurance coverage through the healthcare law.

    The agency also said employer penalties in the law would decrease wages, and part-year workers would be slower to return to the work force because they would seek to retain ObamaCare insurance subsidies.

    "All our analysis led us to conclude the effects of the [healthcare law] on labor force participation would be a good deal larger than we had though originally," CBO Director Doug Elmendorf said. "Fundamentally, the Affordable Care Act provides subsidies to lower income people and those subsidies phase out ... that will have some effects on discouraging labor supply."

    The healthcare law isn’t the only reason the CBO is projecting slower economic growth between 2014 and 2023, however. It also cited inflation and lower productivity as reasons why it was lowering its projections.

    The slower growth will mean less tax revenue, which will add to the deficit. Instead of adding $6.3 trillion in deficits from 2014 to 2023, the government will add $7.3 trillion, the CBO now projects.

    By 2023, the gross debt of the United States will be $26 trillion, up from a projected $25 trillion. A year later, the debt will rise to $27 trillion as the $1.074 trillion deficit for fiscal 2024 is added in.

    The CBO said that the ObamaCare labor effects cause about 0.5 percent drop in nominal GDP over ten years.

    “Most of the increase in projected deficits results from lower projections for the growth of real GDP and for inflation, which have resulted in projected revenues between 2014 and 2023 by $1.4 trillion,” the CBO explained.

    Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the chairman of the House Budget Committee, said lawmakers must address the nation's long-term fiscal outlook.

    "Washington can't continue to ignore the problem: trillions of dollars in empty promises. And Obamacare is only making things worse. This costly law is not only pushing government spending to new heights; it is disrupting coverage and leaving millions of Americans worse off," Ryan said.

    The White House argued that the CBO report cannot be used to say ObamaCare "hurts jobs."

    "Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families," spokesman Jay Carney said, adding "the Republican plan to repeal the ACA would strip those hard-working Americans of that opportunity."

    The CBO now thinks the economy will grow at 3.1 percent in this fiscal year, which ends in October, rather than the 3.4 percent growth it predicted last year.

    The unemployment rate is projected to fall to 6.7 percent by the end of the year, much lower than the 7.6 percent the CBO saw for 2014 previously. The budget office does not see unemployment falling below 6 percent for the rest of President Obama’s term, however.

    In the near term, the CBO is projecting smaller deficits.

    The budget office says legislation enacted since May has reduced deficits by $400 billion.

    For 2014, the deficit is slated to be $514 billion, an improvement of $46 billion from last year’s projection.

    In 2015, the deficit falls to $478 billion. That is still higher than the last full year of the Bush administration, when the deficit was $458 billion, but it is a steep drop from the $1 trillion deficits of most of the Obama years.

    The CBO also said the botched ObamaCare rollout will result in 6 million people signing up for coverage through the insurance exchanges this year, 1 million fewer than projected last year.

    One million fewer people will enroll in Medicaid and children's health insurance through the healthcare law, and 1 million more people will be uninsured in 2014.
    What? Obamacare will cost jobs and generally hurt the economy? Sure didn't see that coming.............

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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    ^ Found the first person who read only what they wanted to read.

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    I wish I wasnt lazy and could go find my post from 3-4 years ago that said :

    "Mark my words, you will have healthcare, at the expense of your job"
    Im sure Blank still thinks this is all utter bullshit and premiums are falling drastically
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  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    ^ Found the first person who read only what they wanted to read.
    The CBO is ALWAYS wrong they always are soft on predictions.

    You look at their disparaging numbers on policies you like and say "mehhhh" then you look at their total bullshit deficit projections and go "SEE!!!!!!"

    They have been about 2 trillion OFF on Obamacares costs SO FAR and we havent even hit the MEAT part of it yet. The employer mandate will make it far worse
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    "Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families," spokesman Jay Carney said, adding "the Republican plan to repeal the ACA would strip those hard-working Americans of that opportunity."
    LOL only an asshat like Carney would claim that a law the CBO is saying destroys jobs and is inflating costs would cost "HARD WORKING AMERICANS" and blame it on the GOP.

    Its not even debatable, Working Americans would be better off WITHOUT the ACA, premiums would be lower, and many people would still have insurance
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    ^ Found the first person who read only what they wanted to read.
    lol, right. No comment of any substance, I'm shocked.

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    This is how the CBO "estimates"

    ObamaCare will slash the equivalent of 2.3 million full-time jobs by 2021, according to the Congressional Budget Office. This is significantly more than the 800K originally estimated.
    Obamacare was passed in 2010. In less than 6 months after its rollout, they were off by roughly 1.5 million. WHOOPS.

    So tell me HOW am I supposed to give any weight to their "deficit reduction" projections?

    They underestimated Obamacare by 2 Trillion.

    Take anything the CBO says , and go the other way. IF they say it costs $1, assume $5. If they say 2 years, assume 5
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    In all fairness... The CBO can only score things on the parameters they are given. They can't come out and say "This program makes no fucking sense whatsoever".

    'Cause honestly both parties spend money so poorly it makes you wonder how they are rich... Oh wait, it's because they aren't spending their own money.

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  28. #228
    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Im sure Blank still thinks this is all utter bullshit and premiums are falling drastically
    facepalm

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    LOL only an asshat like Carney would claim that a law the CBO is saying destroys jobs and is inflating costs would cost "HARD WORKING AMERICANS" and blame it on the GOP.
    Havent seen any democratic proposals to repeal the ACA.

    Its not even debatable, Working Americans would be better off WITHOUT the ACA, premiums would be lower, and many people would still have insurance
    Very debatable as a matter of fact...

    Quote Originally Posted by Browning151 View Post
    lol, right. No comment of any substance, I'm shocked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Browning151 View Post
    What? Obamacare will cost jobs and generally hurt the economy? Sure didn't see that coming.............
    You're absolutely right. No substance at all. You read what you wanted to read and posted your own synopsis of it.

    Internet politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Havent seen any democratic proposals to repeal the ACA.

    So only a plan from the left is worth considering?



    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Very debatable as a matter of fact...
    Not at all. More than 6 million have lost their health insurance because of Obamacare.




    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    You're absolutely right. No substance at all. You read what you wanted to read and posted your own synopsis of it.

    Internet politics.

    So why dont you post up your own synopsis. It seems like everyone else is coming to same conclusions I am seeing here. This includes commentary on Fox Business, Bloomberg radio, and CNBC.

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    I'm seeing more and more of these "I'm so happy being poor" stories surfacing in the Yahoo/Google news... But it's probably just my right-wing extremist brain looking for a conspiracy.

    Why this millennial quit his 6-figure job and gave away most of his possessions - Yahoo Finance

    By making less money on purpose, I'm ashamed to say he's ditching his civic responsibility to pay for the "greatest" generation's healthcare.

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    ~waits for blank to copy/paste "But it's probably just my right-wing extremist brain looking for a conspiracy." and make a snarky "I'm better than you" comment.~

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  33. #233
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    Reading what I want to read? Despite the little silver linings that you can pick out here and there that will be positives for people the overall effect on the economy will be negative. You can slice it, dice it, twist it, spin it, whatever you want to do with it, but at the end of the day the OVERALL effect on the economy is a negative one, no matter how many little positives you want to pull out to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy.

    Go ahead Blank, dazzle us, tell us how we're all wrong and how wonderful Obamacare is and how it's going to have a positive effect on the economy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Echonova View Post
    ~waits for blank to copy/paste "But it's probably just my right-wing extremist brain looking for a conspiracy." and make a snarky "I'm better than you" comment.~
    He's not only the smartest man in the room now, he's the smartest man in all the land. Everyone is coming to the same conclusion, that Obamacare will have a negative effect on the economy overall, but we're just reading what we want to read and hearing what we want to hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echonova View Post
    In all fairness... The CBO can only score things on the parameters they are given. They can't come out and say "This program makes no fucking sense whatsoever".

    'Cause honestly both parties spend money so poorly it makes you wonder how they are rich... Oh wait, it's because they aren't spending their own money.
    Thats why the CBO is never really accurate.

    LOL Blank, 6 million people lost their insurance, WORKING FAMILIES lost their healthcare and the .gov rates were higher or the plans cost more(which is why they lost their plans in the first place). OR they lost their doctors.

    Its not debatable
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    But...but.... it's all tacit implication. It hasn't happened to me, so it is not happening....herp derp!!
    I got free clear tails with my ride.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    So only a plan from the left is worth considering?
    That isn't what I said at all. I said Carney is blaming the republican effort to repeal Obamacare and that there isn't a democratic effort to repeal Obamacare to blame.


    Not at all. More than 6 million have lost their health insurance because of Obamacare.
    So you and Rightwingkidd are telling me that there are 6 million people that cannot get health insurance?

    So why dont you post up your own synopsis. It seems like everyone else is coming to same conclusions I am seeing here. This includes commentary on Fox Business, Bloomberg radio, and CNBC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Browning151 View Post
    Reading what I want to read?.

    Go ahead Blank, dazzle us....
    We can start by reading the ACTUAL report.

    Here's what the CBO actually says, quoted from the report

    Quote Originally Posted by Congressional Budget Office Report
    The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses’ demand for labor, so it will appear almost entirely as a reduction in labor force participation and in hours worked relative to what would have occurred otherwise rather than as an increase in unemployment (that is, more workers seeking but not finding jobs) or underemployment (such as part-time workers who would prefer to work more hours per week).
    Hmm. Quite different than the "job destroying" narrative.

    But hey, I'll admit "OBAMACARE SUX" is easier to type than actually using logic. Must be fun being intellectually dishonest.

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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300 View Post
    But...but.... it's all tacit implication. It hasn't happened to me, so it is not happening....herp derp!!
    I wouldn't use big words you don't understand.

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    So you and Rightwingkidd are telling me that there are 6 million people that cannot get health insurance?
    Comprehension , i know its not your strong suit. But here we go again:

    6 Million people LOST the health insurance they were happy with , paying $XXX a month for with Dr. Smith. Obamacare, forced the insurance companies to cancel their plans, and force them into new plans(that ACA deemed "acceptable"), that cost MORE than what they were paying. So, if we REALLY care about the working family, dont you think its a little shitty that a law designed for them is now costing them MORE money per month?

    Sure there is insurance for them to buy, but in some cases it costs them $500-1000 MORE per month. How is that HELPING the "AMERICAN FAMILY" that Carney is trying to use to vitcimize the GOP?

    Those families would be better off without the ACA, they would still have their insurance and doctor.

    If none of this was a problem, then Obama wouldnt have done this:
    Obama Grants One Year Reprieve For Existing Health Insurance Plans - Forbes


    Why would Obama grant a reprieve if the Healthcare.go insurance was BETTER than the plans that were being cut? He claimed if you liked your plan you could keep it. It was patently false.
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    Businesses themselves are claiming that the added cost coming with the ACA is going to cause them to shrink their labor force and rethink benefits packages. I mean, what do they know?

    The CBO agrees that the ACA is costing jobs, MILLIONS of jobs.

    There is a BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS that you quoted
    The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply
    Do you not see the issue with this? UE 7%, and now we have workers who............dont want to work because we have successfully shown them that you can now work less and make more. Did you not see the study I posted where the guy making under $20,000 a year paid a whopping $1 for medical coverage and the guy making $20,500 a year had to pay $480 a month?

    The $20k a year worker gets free money subsidized by the govt for his healthcare.

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