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Thread: Obamacare and your premiums.

  1. #41
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    LOL i give up, this place has become not a place of discussion on honest debates anymore, its bullshit strawmen and ignoring facts.

    I cant argue with someone who cant even fathom the simplest of economic policies.

    *unsubscribed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browning151 View Post
    "But sir, your plan will wipe out an entire industry to help less than 15% of the population".......
    FUCK EM, THEY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY ANYWAYS.
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    A lot of people don't realize that 6 figures is not really a lot nowadays.
    pay is irrelevant. When you make $20000 a year its easy to say $150k is easy living. thats a warped way to view the world. and a jealous one.

    You have to look at what it TAKES TO EARN that kind of money. Doctors dont just go to the local community college and major in art history and get 200-500k jobs. I know doctors, i work with doctors, my GF runs a major hospital admin . It takes unbelievable education and $$$$ to become a doctor which is why they get compensated well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    404 DOCTORS NOT FOUND

    LOL what a stupid post. I enrolled in engineering school at GA TECH, GUESS IM AN ENGINEER GUYS!

    Medical students dont = doctors
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    This just in. People who enroll in medical school aren't actually interested in working in the medical field at all

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    And your point?
    My point is irrelevant - the doctors that currently treat ill patients have a point that is relevant. If you read and comprehended the article, their point should be abundantly clear to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    This just in. People who enroll in medical school aren't actually interested in working in the medical field at all
    This just in, everyone who enrolls in medical school graduate and become doctors.

    Theres a shortage of doctors, its the FIRST FUCKING LINE IN THE LINK YOU POSTED.

    There will be shortages going forward. Its going to happen, and ill laugh when im right
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Amidst ambiguous medical career futures, and certain global economic collapse (as you so aptly uncovered for us, thank you), medical school enrollment continues to climb, reinforcing the fact that all doctors in the foreseeable future will retire.

    LMAO

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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    My point is irrelevant - the doctors that currently treat ill patients have a point that is relevant. If you read and comprehended the article, their point should be abundantly clear to you.
    Doctors are retiring, and are being replaced by more doctors.

    So what's your point?

    Is the cognitive dissonance painful?

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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Why is it that your rhetoric doesn't stand up to the facts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Doctors are retiring, and are being replaced by more doctors.

    So what's your point?

    Is the cognitive dissonance painful?
    My article:
    A study shows that six in 10 physicians (62%) believe that it is likely many of their colleagues will retire earlier than planned - in the next 1 to 3 years (very soon). 55% of physicians believe the hospital-doctor relationship will suffer as admitting privileges are put at risk to comply with hospital standards of meaningful use.

    Your article:
    Applications to enter into initial studies in the medical field increased by 3.1% - which not all of them are studying to be doctors.

    Do you realize that your article was not even related to the actual topic?

    I have no idea if cognitive dissonance is painful - I'm not the one suffering from it.
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    I'm trying to believe you guys, I really am, but what you're saying just doesn't seem to coincide with reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I'm trying to believe you guys, I really am, but what you're saying just doesn't seem to coincide with reality.
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    So what we're saying is medical doctors are the only profession where the more customers you have, the less employees you need?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    So what we're saying is medical doctors are the only profession where the more customers you have, the less employees you need?
    this 1 statement should end this conversation.

    Do you buy "electronics" insurance before you go visit best buy?

    The whole model of insurance would answer your question, but its clear you dont know how the system works.

    Doctors make X
    Hospitals charge Y
    People buy insurance to be able to afford to pay the Doctors X

    More patients= more risk.

    Let me dumb it down, do you think having MORE teenage drivers would LOWER your rates or RAISE them. HINT: Teenage drivers cause more accidents, the income you bring in, in the form of premiums, doesnt cover $100,000 in damages a person can cause. Why do you think your rates get lower the older you get?

    the opposite is true with health insurance.

    So yes, doctors with more patients, would have to charge more because your $200.month premium =more care which costs more money. More risk=more cost=more money. you would need more doctors if it was beneficial for them to become doctors. But with single payer, you would cut their salaries because , why else would you have single payer? Single Payer would tell you what a Heart Surgeon should make regardless of what the private market says they are (Mainly because there is no private market)

    its not a $1:1$ ratio like you think it is.
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    That's all I needed to hear. Thank you.

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    My disabled mother's doctor told her that he no longer accepts medicaid, that she has to pay cash.


    No worries..... i'll just tell her that medical school enrollment is up.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    The other thing is the news coming out now that 4 times as many people are enrolling in the free medicaid than the individual insurance in the exchange. Basically, the individuals that go to the exchanges to buy healthcare are supposed to fund the medicaid people.

    But it doesnt work when 4 times as many people want free healthcare vs paid.

    Its Social Security all over again. Here comes the exploding deficits and out of control premiums costs going up.

    Still waiting to see Blank post proof his premiums decreased
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    My disabled mother's doctor told her that he no longer accepts medicaid, that she has to pay cash.


    No worries..... i'll just tell her that medical school enrollment is up.
    I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Still waiting to see Blank post proof his premiums decreased
    It still won't prove anything other than the straw man that everyone's premiums increased is bullshit. That's something I and the rest of educated already know.

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.
    Wow. You claim that you understand economics and business, and then make that statement?

    That doctor is not denying her healthcare - he is just stating the way that he must be compensated for his service. There was nothing said that she was unable to pay either - you assumed that all on your own. It is the same for any privately produced product or service in our American society. She can either agree to those terms or go to another doctor who provides those same services.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.
    so in your world Doctors dont set their prices, they work for free. I dont think you understand how medicare works. Doesnt surprise me you seem highly uneducated on basic healthcare system principles.



    It still won't prove anything other than the straw man that everyone's premiums increased is bullshit. That's something I and the rest of educated already know.
    Cant prove what isnt true i suppose.

    Also, never said EVERYONE, said as a whole premiums are rising, thats a true statement. Id love to see your premiums that you claim decreased even though you have the same coverage , deductible, and benefits. Put your money where your mouth is
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    Medicare is a subsidy the govt pays for seniors, Obamacare is going to cut medicare payments to doctors to try and control costs. So what does the doctor do? He refuses medicare patients because if a private insurer pays you $200 for a procedure, and medicare says "you only need to make $50" the doctor will choose private insurers.

    Its the doctors choice to choose what customers aka patients he wants to see. If their insurance doesnt pay his prices, they dont get care and they can go to someone "cheaper".

    Welcome to ECON 101

    Of the $716 billion in cuts, $415 billion come in the form of “updates to fee-for-service payment rates,” a euphemism for reducing Medicare’s payments to doctors and hospitals. But what happens when you reduce payments to doctors? Doctors stop being willing to see Medicare patients. And if you can’t actually get a doctor’s appointment, what does it really matter what your insurance plan covers on paper?
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    Senior Member | IA Veteran Elbow's Avatar
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    LOL @ thinking doctors would be perfectly fine with turning their careers into a more "charity" type gig.

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    It's amazing what this forum thinks they know about healthcare. LOL

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    Game Set Match
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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    It's amazing what this forum thinks they know about healthcare. LOL
    It's amazing what you think that you know about healthcare, politics, economics, psychology, etc.... LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Game Set Match
    Hardly. LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    It's amazing what you think that you know about healthcare, politics, economics, psychology, etc.... LOL
    Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Hardly. LOL.

    Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO
    I'm not saying Obamacare is causing a mass doctor retiring, but I know most doctors aren't going to be happy doing work for less. Would you?

    What makes you a healthcare expert anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO
    I never made any claim that it would cause a global economic meltdown, or anything even vaguely related. Get your facts straight, and don't try to make it sound like I said something that I never even alluded to.

    The article stated that a study shows that doctors think that a large number of them will retire in the next 1-3 years. Do you think that you know better than the doctors themselves? Where is the source for your statements? Perhaps you are sitting on it?
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    hes referring to what i said that single payer would cause the economy to collapse, which I believe to be true. I stated why. Mass job loss, huge raise in taxes or massive deficit spending would tank the economy.

    The amount in taxes they would have to charge to pay for healthcare would drive hundreds of thousands out of work, and run up huge deficits. Its really simple math.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbow View Post
    I'm not saying Obamacare is causing a mass doctor retiring, but I know most doctors aren't going to be happy doing work for less. Would you?

    What makes you a healthcare expert anyway?
    Far from a healthcare expert actually. I do understand it's infinitely more complex than our buddy David and Apocalypsekidd are leading you to believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO
    I havent seen anything about mass retirement, but that is a possibility, so is the fact that doctors may simply decide not to see anyone that receives insurance through Obamacare.
    New York doctors flee Obamacare:

    How about the general shortage of doctors in the US?
    Obamacare Will Expose Doctor Shortage In The U.S., Put More Pressure On Exhausted Physicians (VIDEO)

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Far from a healthcare expert actually. I do understand it's infinitely more complex than our buddy David and Apocalypsekidd are leading you to believe.
    Where have I said that the healthcare system is simple? There are concepts that are simple, and others that are complex. Stop trying to make it seem that I am saying something that I am not. These intentionally misleading statements show that you are only trying to be deceptive, rather than address the article's core message.
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    Who here has logged on to Healthcare.gov and are happy with the results? No one? Shocking.


    My company switched to an "Obamacare" complaint insurance plan within a week after it was signed. I've had $10,000/annual family deductible for over three years. Glad to see everyone else finally catching up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    I havent seen anything about mass retirement, but that is a possibility, so is the fact that doctors may simply decide not to see anyone that receives insurance through Obamacare.
    New York doctors flee Obamacare:

    How about the general shortage of doctors in the US?
    Obamacare Will Expose Doctor Shortage In The U.S., Put More Pressure On Exhausted Physicians (VIDEO)
    David suggested doctors were retiring, at what he made seem was an alarming rate.

    Ok. That's fine

    But we're seeing an increase in med school applicants at the same time

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.



    It still won't prove anything other than the straw man that everyone's premiums increased is bullshit. That's something I and the rest of educated already know.
    She wasn't denied care. She just has to pay cash now. Everything was fine before obama "helped".

    You want to live in world where the government can force doctors into slavery to accommodate for those who can't pay?

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbow View Post
    LOL @ thinking doctors would be perfectly fine with turning their careers into a more "charity" type gig.
    Amen. Common sense prevails.

    "The greatest form of inequality is when you try to make unequal things equal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    David suggested doctors were retiring, at what he made seem was an alarming rate.

    Ok. That's fine

    But we're seeing an increase in med school applicants at the same time
    I didn't suggest it, a study was done and DOCTORS said that 62% knew colleagues that plan to retire early in 1-3 years. The study also tied that to the ACA.

    To claim that it was a suggestion from me, rather than recognize it as a study by a leading research institute, shows that you are attempting to be deceptive by implying that this is made up by me. You recently defended a telephone survey of less than 1000 random people asking them if they used drugs as a legitimate method to polling and getting accurate results. Here, I bring up a study done by a well respected research institute, where they got a much larger cross section of a specific and well informed field, but you do not want to accept its results with the same conviction.

    I stated before, your increase in medical student applications is 3.1% (about 10,000 more applicants). That does not mean that these new applicants will be approved, will complete their education, or even become doctors. They aren't all studying to become doctors, just applying to medical schools. That's a huge difference.
    Just to pay out your scenario - let's be fictionally generous and say that a quarter of these new applicant (about 2,500) become doctors. Here's something to think about - they aren't all studying to be US doctors. Many come from other countries to study here, and then return back to their own country. I know quite a few Indians that have come to Emory, complete their doctorates, and head home to run their medical practices there.

    Bottom line: The provisions within Obamacare are expected to increase the number of primary care doctors by perhaps 3,000 in the coming decade. Communities around the country need about 45,000.
    Obamacare is making the system have a greater shortage of doctors.



    You don't have to believe me though, read about it yourself.
    U.S. Faces Shortage of Doctors - WSJ.com
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/he...mmunities.html

    "The proportion of medical students choosing to enter primary care has declined in the past 15 years, as average earnings for primary care doctors and specialists, like orthopedic surgeons and radiologists, have diverged."
    Last edited by David88vert; 10-30-2013 at 07:50 AM.
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    get your silly fox news facts out of here. Medical school applicants are up, all is well
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ImportAtlanta is a community of gearheads and car enthusiasts. It does not matter what kind of car or bike you drive, IA is an open community for any gearhead. Whether you're looking for advice on a performance build or posting your wheels for sale, you're welcome here!
Announcement
Welcome back to ImportAtlanta. We are currently undergoing many changes, so please report any issues you encounter with the site using the 'Contact Us' button below. Thank you!