12 Teenagers rape 2 women in park

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Originally Posted by Echonova

Jesus Fucking Christ. Reading this thread makes me want to eat a bullet.

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Me too. Too many people with irrational knee-jerk reactions in here. Sinfix, in a stunning turn of events, with the most rational opinion thus far.

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Why should crimes have different consequences because of age? If I kill someone or a 13yr old kills someone, are they less dead because the 13yr old killed them?

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Luckily, as a consequence of a civilized society, we have trained scientists who have the ability to psycho-analyze the minds of people of all ages. We as a civilized society have determined that generally, younger people, and people who are mentally challenged are less mentally developed, and as a result, we've established a system of justice, based on these results, to deal with these situations.

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I think justice should be dispensed the same way I handle women. If you're a woman, you can slap me with an open hand all day long. I may get mad, but I ain't beating dat ass down. I'll just restrain you 'till you come to your senses... If you're man enough to hit me with a closed fist... Well then you're man enough to be hit like a man.


Think about it.

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Well, you know best what to do with opinions. LOL

I would prefer to have a conversation with people that have real world knowledge.


On a side note: How's that HID conversion going?

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...psef8faa08.jpg

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Originally Posted by Echonova

On a side note: How's that HID conversion going?

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very very slow. Lol.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Luckily, as a consequence of a civilized society, we have trained scientists who have the ability to psycho-analyze the minds of people of all ages. We as a civilized society have determined that generally, younger people, and people who are mentally challenged are less mentally developed, and as a result, we've established a system of justice, based on these results, to deal with these situations.

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There's your problem.

If there is just ONE chance that it is not absolutely, 100% the norm, the laws should change to fit the punishment to the crime, no matter the age.

children learn right from wrong since they are born. "Don't touch that stove. Don't pee in your pants. Don't eat that. Don't bite. Play nice, don't hit your friend". Believe me. A 13 year old is well aware what right and wrong is.

If you're old enough for your dick to get hard to rape someone, you're old enough to be raped in prison too. These weren't kid playing "doctor" and exploring their bodies. These are kids who participated in a gang rape.

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Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300

children learn right from wrong since they are born....Believe me. A 13 year old is well aware what right and wrong is.

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I believe you, and I appreciate your uninformed point of view and assessment of what happened, even though an investigation hasn't been performed, but like I've said before, there is a very clear difference between knowing right from wrong and fully understanding the consequences of your actions, which 13 year olds are not well aware of.

I personally enjoy living in a civilized society where reason and intelligence are used in law. There are societies who do not use reason and intelligence within their justice system, where its ok to rush to judgements before investigations have been performed, maybe you'd feel happier living in one of those?

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

I believe you, and I appreciate your uninformed point of view and assessment of what happened, even though an investigation hasn't been performed, but like I've said before, there is a very clear difference between knowing right from wrong and fully understanding the consequences of your actions, which 13 year olds are not well aware of.

I personally enjoy living in a civilized society where reason and intelligence are used in law. There are societies who do not use reason and intelligence within their justice system, where its ok to rush to judgements before investigations have been performed, maybe you'd feel happier living in one of those?

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A society where 12 minors violently gang rape women in a public park is hardly civilized. The reason people are outraged is because we're losing our civilized society to streets that are overran with criminals. A 12 year old who rapes someone should go to prison, so should a 13-14-15-16-17-18 year old. Whats the point of commenting on pending investigations? all comments here are based upon guilt. Are you implying that there is a chance these kids are innocent? maybe they met on underagegangbang.com and when the 12 boys didnt call them back the next day, they claimed rape?

This conversation is not guilty or innocent, it's when/if the "minors" are found guilty, they should be charged as adults.

The unfortunate thing about stories like this is that politicians are working so hard to remove your ability to protect yourself from them. Had one of these women shot one of these teens, they would have been charged with child abuse, murder, man slaughter, being a racist.... ect ect....

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

The unfortunate thing about stories like this is that politicians are working so hard to remove your ability to protect yourself from them. Had one of these women shot one of these teens, they would have been charged with child abuse, murder, man slaughter, being a racist.... ect ect....

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Thats my biggest fear. Cops would say the minorx were unarmed therefore its murder.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

Are you implying that there is a chance these kids are innocent? maybe they met on underagegangbang.com and when the 12 boys didnt call them back the next day, they claimed rape?

This conversation is not guilty or innocent, it's when/if the "minors" are found guilty, they should be charged as adults.

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Im saying that even though they may (or may not) know that rape and murder is morally wrong, they don't have the ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions and quantify their costs. It's something that comes with age and there's nothing you can do to legislate that away.

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[The unfortunate thing about stories like this is that politicians are working so hard to remove your ability to protect yourself from them. Had one of these women shot one of these teens, they would have been charged with child abuse, murder, man slaughter, being a racist.... ect ect....

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Could you provide an example of a politician in the last 30 years trying to remove my ability to protect myself from a 12 year old?

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Im saying that even though they may (or may not) know that rape and murder is morally wrong, they don't have the ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions and quantify their costs. It's something that comes with age and there's nothing you can do to legislate that away.

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I dont care if they understand the consequences or not. My compassion lies with the victims, not the criminals. If a 15 year old kid can attack and gang rape a woman without something triggering in his brain that what he is doing is wrong, i dont care if he understands or not. That person needs to be exterminated the same as a rabid animal.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Could you provide an example of a politician in the last 30 years trying to remove my ability to protect myself from a 12 year old?

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http://www.standlikearock.net/wp-con...and-Holder.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

I dont care if they understand the consequences or not. My compassion lies with the victims, not the criminals. If a 15 year old kid can attack and gang rape a woman without something triggering in his brain that what he is doing is wrong, i dont care if he understands or not. That person needs to be exterminated the same as a rabid animal.

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So, using this logic, should we also allow kids to smoke, drink, own semi automatic pistols, and enter into legally binding contracts? Why or why not?

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http://www.standlikearock.net/wp-con...and-Holder.jpg

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I'm being serious, if they're trying to remove your ability to protect yourself from 12 year olds, there has to be legislation or a bill or something somewhere.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

So, using this logic, should we also allow kids to smoke, drink, own semi automatic pistols, and enter into legally binding contracts? Why or why not?

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There's no relation between laws designed to prevent minors from making mistakes and the punishment rendered when/if they commit mistakes. With that said, i think all of the age requirements should be lowered. An 18 year old cant own a gun of his own, but he can take one up in combat to fight for his country. If 18 is the legal age for an adult, why cant 18 year olds drink, smoke, own guns or anything else? if people under 18 have undeveloped brains incapable of making life decisions, then they shouldnt be able to join the military.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

There's no relation between laws designed to prevent minors from making mistakes and the punishment rendered when/if they commit mistakes.

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There is very much a relation. I'm trying to illustrate to you what it is.

Should a 12 year old be allowed to legally consume alcohol, smoke, or enter into legally binding contracts. Why or why not?

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

There is very much a relation. I'm trying to illustrate to you what it is.

Should a 12 year old be allowed to legally consume alcohol, smoke, or enter into legally binding contracts. Why or why not?

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I understand the reasoning behind those rules, though i do not agree with them.

And no, there is no relation to those laws and the punishments for crimes. If kids understanding the consequences of their actions is the issue, then add a basic "crime and punishment" class to the curriculum. Chapter 1, if you murder someone, you go to jail.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

I understand the reasoning behind those rules, though i do not agree with them.

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So what is the reasoning and why don't you agree with it? I'm not interested in if you think there's a relation or not

Should a 12 year old legally be allowed to drink, smoke, and enter into legally binding contracts. Why or why not. That's all I wanted to know.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

So what is the reasoning and why don't you agree with it? That's all I wanted to know.

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Theyre trying to allow young people to mature before making serious life decisions. I dont agree with the government's role in parenting children and i also dont like the moral/religious origins of some laws. I disagree with some more than others and for different reasons. I've already stated some of the reasons i disagree with the age restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

Theyre trying to allow young people to mature before making serious life decisions.

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Now we're going somewhere

So you believe a 12 year old is not mature enough to make those decisions? What is it about that 12y/o that is not mature enough to make that decision?

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Now we're going somewhere

So you believe a 12 year old is not mature enough to make those decisions? What is it about that 12y/o that is not mature enough to make that decision?

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It varies based on the situation. This is one reason why the government shouldnt be parenting kids. Also, why are we setting the bench mark at 12? That sensationalizes your argument.

Give me an example scenario and i will suggest a course of action.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

It varies based on the situation. This is one reason why the government shouldnt be parenting kids. Also, why are we setting the bench mark at 12? That sensationalizes your argument.

Give me an example scenario and i will suggest a course of action.

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No one is setting a benchmark at or sensationalizing anything. I could have said 9, I could have said 9 months, I could have said 17.5 years. 12-13 seems to be the age in question, so I went with that.

Example 1. 10 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

Example 2. 27 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

What makes these two scenarios different?

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

No one is setting a benchmark at or sensationalizing anything. I could have said 9, I could have said 9 months, I could have said 17.5 years. 12-13 seems to be the age in question, so I went with that.

Example 1. 10 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

Example 2. 27 year old goes into the liquor store to buy a handle of Grey Goose with the intention of drinking it himself. Should there be a law against this type of transaction. Why or why not?

What makes these two scenarios different?

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Example 1: Yes there should be a law against it. Why? unsupervised, the child could unintentionally do bodily harm. This is also not an example where criminalization is in question. The law is a preventative measure.

Example 2: No. Society dictates that a person this age can make his/her own decisions, even when they do bodily harm. Under those same principles, why is weed illegal? why is speeding illegal? why is not wearing a seat belt illegal? The lack of consistency in laws is rather troubling.

What makes them different? society lets the older person fend for themselves. If only we could extend this to all things................

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

Example 1: Yes there should be a law against it. Why? unsupervised, the child could unintentionally do bodily harm. The law is a preventative measure.

Example 2: No. Society dictates that a person this age can make his/her own decisions, even when they do bodily harm.

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Do both the 27 year old and the 10 year old know right from wrong?

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Do both the 27 year old and the 10 year old know right from wrong?

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The 27 year old has a better understanding of right and wrong than a 10 year.

You're still sensationalizing your argument. Me saying the age restrictions should be lowered is not me saying that a toddler should be able to crawl into a liquor store and buy a bottle of jack and a handgun.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

The 27 year old has a better understanding of right and wrong than a 10 year.

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Thank you.

This answer right here is why we have a separate system of justice for minors and adults.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Thank you.

This answer right here is why we have a separate system of justice for minors and adults.

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I see it now.... you have shown me the light.... those poor 16-17 year olds dont know any better when they rape and murder people. We should wait a year or two until they understand before we hold them accountable. So what some woman's life has been changed forever or someone died, a minor getting a do-over is much more important.

He didnt know it was wrong to shoot a baby in the face.... let him go, a year from now he will know right from wrong.

http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/wp-c...-Young-Kes.jpg

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Thank you.

This answer right here is why we have a separate system of justice for minors and adults.

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I understand the point you're trying to make, but to me it seems like you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Yes they are both fruits, but they come from completely different origins, and taste is nowhere near the same. A minor drinking, smoking is illeagle but completely different from committing the crime of Rape or murder.

A 12yo may be not as mature or as a 27yo but they both know that the acts of rape or murder are severe crimes, in my opinion should be punishable by death.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

He didnt know it was wrong to shoot a baby in the face.... let him go, a year from now he will know right from wrong.

http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/wp-c...-Young-Kes.jpg

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It's easy to find an exception to the rule, but that's why we err on the side of caution and judge each situation on its own merits. This guy will probably go away for a long time.

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Originally Posted by 00CelicaGT

I understand the point you're trying to make, but to me it seems like you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Yes they are both fruits, but they come from completely different origins, and taste is nowhere near the same. A minor drinking, smoking is illeagle but completely different from committing the crime of Rape or murder.

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Its not so much of a point in trying to make as it is a reason in trying to illustrate. Of course smoking and drinking is different than rape or murder, but the logic is still the same. If you ask a 12 year old and a 27 year old what rape and murder is, you will get two completely different answers. The reason center of the 12 y/o's brain is simply not as developed as the 27 y/o. It's just a physiological fact. This is why we've accepted 18 years as a general standard of mental culpability for smoking and entering into binding contracts. And some would argue 18 is still too young. It will be a very incredibly rare occurrence for someone under 18 to be put to death anymore. If it ever happens...

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A 12yo may be not as mature or as a 27yo but they both know that the acts of rape or murder are severe crimes, in my opinion should be punishable by death.

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If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

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currently, the legal definition of rape in this scenario would be any sexual contact.

If my 12 year old son slept with a 12 year old girl, i would punish him with extra work activities or restrictions along with educating him on the risks of his actions.

If my 12 year old son violently raped some random girl, i would beg a judge to put him in jail to prevent me from beating him to death.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Do both the 27 year old and the 10 year old know right from wrong?

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I'm going to have to say yes, both of them do, just as equally.

A 10 year old may have a harder time judging consequences of say stealing a candy bar, BUT A VIOLENT CRIME? IF YOU'RE TEN YEARS OLD AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHY MURDERING IS BAD, JUST DIE.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

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I would hope my son would spend the rest of his life in prison and I would hope the police would take him quickly before his actions cook in my mind and I do something I'd regret.

What would you do? Hope he learned his lesson? LMFAO...

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

If my 12 year old son violently raped some random girl, i would beg a judge to put him in jail to prevent me from beating him to death.

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This sounds like hyperbole for the sake of making a point. All I'm asking for is a smidgen of honesty. Do you literally mean you'd murder your son?

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Originally Posted by Elbow

I'm going to have to say yes, both of them do, just as equally.

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I don't know any competent psychologist, or any rational adult rather, who would agree with you....

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A 10 year old may have a harder time judging consequences of say stealing a candy bar, BUT A VIOLENT CRIME? IF YOU'RE TEN YEARS OLD AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHY MURDERING IS BAD, JUST DIE.

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...But it seems to me like we're unclear on something. In interest of clarity, what do you think should have happened here?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/25/us/lou...ls-grandmother

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Its not so much of a point in trying to make as it is a reason in trying to illustrate. Of course smoking and drinking is different than rape or murder, but the logic is still the same. If you ask a 12 year old and a 27 year old what rape and murder is, you will get two completely different answers. The reason center of the 12 y/o's brain is simply not as developed as the 27 y/o. It's just a physiological fact. This is why we've accepted 18 years as a general standard of mental culpability for smoking and entering into binding contracts. And some would argue 18 is still too young. It will be a very incredibly rare occurrence for someone under 18 to be put to death anymore. If it ever happens...



If your 12 y/o son raped a 12 y/o girl, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

currently, the legal definition of rape in this scenario would be any sexual contact.

If my 12 year old son slept with a 12 year old girl, i would punish him with extra work activities or restrictions along with educating him on the risks of his actions.

If my 12 year old son violently raped some random girl, i would beg a judge to put him in jail to prevent me from beating him to death.

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It would be exactly this, granted I dnt think I could ask the judge to kill him. But if he was convicted of a violent crime rape and the punishment was death I wouldn't argue to reduce it. I dnt have a son but I do have a 2 yo daughter and a wife and while its hard to say exactly I would have to except the punishment and if its death then so be it.

I dnt believe that a 12yo & 27yo are that different. Kids now days kids have so many different media outlets that allow them to be more advanced then when we were 12. From tv shows like Law and order SVU, the news, video games, and the biggest being the internet (YouTube,WorldStarHipHop,google) etc... Kids are far more advanced then 10-15 yrs ago and this means knowing the consequences for there actions, some understanding that if they do wrong the punishment won't be as severe since they are minors.

Kids that are committing these severe crimes are not living in the "nice areas" of this country and are usually hanging out with older kids, which is making them mature faster. Your average kid may not be as mature a these other 12-13yo and therefore you can't really say every child is not as developed as a 27yo. I feel like your talking about the average 12-13yo in all these instance's you mention, but ultimately these are irregular kids committing this violent acts.

Growing up in a very bad neighborhood in Miami I was exposed to thing the average 12-13yo kid is not, and I learned things the average kids didn't and learned that the consequences weren't as severe since I was a minor. Local drug dealers would use minors to hold drugs because the punishment wasn't as severe and they learned this from older kids, they learned that if you get caught with drugs just tell them that your a user and they won't put you in jail but instead will put you in a drug program with probation. These are the things that I feel sinfix is saying that needs to change.

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Originally Posted by 00CelicaGT

I dnt believe that a 12yo & 27yo are that different.

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Even though doctors say they are?

Would you allow your daughter to consent to sex now? When she's 5? When she's 12? When she's 18?

Why or why not?

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

This sounds like hyperbole for the sake of making a point. All I'm asking for is a smidgen of honesty. Do you literally mean you'd murder your son?

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I cant even comprehend being in this situation. I know i would not want mercy for my son and that he would not be able to live under my roof any longer. Under the right circumstances, i can almost guarantee that i would hurt him severely. I am being honest. I'm not one of those blood is thicker than water, family can do no wrong type of people. I would not forgive these actions. I would beg the judge to give him a life sentence and i would devote any parental energy i had left towards the victim and victim's family.

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Even though doctors say they are?

Would you allow your daughter to consent to sex now? When she's 5? When she's 12? When she's 18?

Why or why not?

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Why are you so all or nothing with this topic? We're saying that minors should not be given a pass on murder, rape and violent crime..... not usual mischief...... this isnt about shop lifting, sneaking in some girls window, or stealing your parents car for a joy ride.... we're talking about murder and violent gang rape...... if a 12 year old doesnt know that gang rape is wrong, then they need to be removed from this world.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

Why are you so all or nothing with this topic? We're saying that minors should not be given a pass on murder, rape and violent crime..... not usual mischief...... this isnt about shop lifting, sneaking in some girls window, or stealing your parents car for a joy ride.... we're talking about murder and violent gang rape...... if a 12 year old doesnt know that gang rape is wrong, then they need to be removed from this world.

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Just agree to disagree sinfix because he's never going to let it go lol. No matter what he will find some way to make up another question with a question lol.

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Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

Why are you so all or nothing with this topic?

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Not all or nothing. Just trying to get an honest answer...

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

Not all or nothing. Just trying to get an honest answer...

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Rapist and murders need to be removed from this world.... whether theyre related to me or not. That is your answer.

Maybe if everyone shared the same disdain for criminals, there would be a lot less of them.

Texan who killed man raping his daughter will not face murder charge - Washington Times

Father stops the rape of his daughter, beats attacker to death. Justice served...