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My solution to the lockout would be to fire all of them and draft some new players. If they quit, they didnt deserve it anyway, and someone just as talented and willing to play the game would take their place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Every single player in the NBA was good before they signed the contract.
...After the fact though. Lebron James was the best before he made his first dollar, like every other professional athlete. How do you explain that? Talent can increase because of compensation, but its not the only factor. Correlation is not causation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
No one is suggesting what doctors should make. I'm only saying if the end result of healthcare is to make it cheaper and more available to everyone, and if a doctors salary takes a negligible hit along the way, I can't feel sorry for them.Quote:
You cannot lower wages and expect the same talent. NOT POSSIBLE. And why does someone with as little medical background as Blank, or any liberal not in the field, think they know what doctors should make?
$120K is on the low end. Specialists that make more tend to have to take more schooling.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I never said that they were just getting by. I said that they were upper middle class. You really need to work on your reading comprehension and memory skills. You also are exhibiting zero critical thinking. Perhaps that is why you are making much less income, you are lacking the skillset required for these types of professions.
Do you realize that these doctors are spending a decade working at no/low rates, and are incurring massive debt for around a decade before they start earning decent income? And then, they have massive startup costs if they start their own practice? On top of that, if they want to have their own family and provide well for them, they have those costs as well. $200K does not go very far, when you have to spend a lot of it on paying back debt.
People are losing insurance because it is getting more expensive to purchase under the new ACA plan. You obviously either did not read the article that I posted, or you were not able to comprehend basic economics.
So now youre against unions? But the evil corporation was trying to take advantage of them so they went on strike? So would you support any corporation doing the exact same thing you just said? Firing all its employees and just hiring scabs?Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Its clear your motives are based upon jealousy or hatred of people who have more than you. Not saying that to be snarky, just it seems you give certain groups of people a pass that you identify with, and demagogue those that you feel have too much as perceived by you.
Yeah, let's just fire all the doctors that complain about their pay being cut. That'll show them. We can just get some more from somewhere.....Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Critical thinking - you're missing it.....
There it is - you think that it is negligible because you don't see it. Wealth distribution - take from those evil rich doctors and let everyone eat cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Lebron was compensated based upon how good he was. There are plenty of people who are probably better than LBJ but they will never make it, for whatever reasons. Their is talent that is inherent. The best heart surgeon in the world, is that for a reason, talent, drive, determination.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
There might be a guy just as good as LBJ, but didnt have the drive and determination to utilize his talent like LBJ did. Same with doctors.
Point is, they are paid the most becuase they are the best.
Quality of care is directly related to what a Dr. makes. Healthcare is a for profit business, the market dictates salaries and labor /service costs, not the govt.Quote:
No one is suggesting what doctors should make. I'm only saying if the end result of healthcare is to make it cheaper and more available to everyone, and if a doctors salary takes a negligible hit along the way, I can't feel sorry for them.
That is what I call a bait and switch. he had to real way to answer that question either way he was doomed :PQuote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
Blank i love ya man, but you just dont understand the entire problem, you only see the cost side of it.
You definitely said normal. Normal and upper middle class are not the same thing. Maybe you're lacking memory skills. Do you not remember saying normal? Is 200k/year normal or upper middle class? Stick with your story.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
This is a Sinfix level dumbass comment. Education and compensation are hardly even indirectly correlated.Quote:
Perhaps that is why you are making much less income, you are lacking the skillset required for these types of professions.
Why?Quote:
Do you realize that these doctors are spending a decade working at no/low rates, and are incurring massive debt for around a decade before they start earning decent income? And then, they have massive startup costs if they start their own practice? On top of that, if they want to have their own family and provide well for them, they have those costs as well. $200K does not go very far, when you have to spend a lot of it on paying back debt.
People are losing insurance because it is getting more expensive to purchase under the new ACA plan.
Another Sinfix level comment. Get it together.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
200-300k a year seems like a lot, to the guy making $50k a year. But its not. Remember 40% goes to taxes, then you have car payment, house note, insurance on both, 401K , health insurance, cell phone, if hes married, then the wifes car, children? Clothing food college education.
200-300K NET is 120-180k take home BEFORE bills after taxes. Its not a lot of money at all. 2 car payments and a house note ($250-300k house) eats a lot of that up. And, as i demonstrated, they have gone through enough schooling that their professions pays that much for a reason.
I stated upper middle class from the start. That is normal. These are not the people making millions of dollars. Even Obama stated that taxes would be targeted to those making over $250K/yr. Normal was under $250K.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Education and income are not related? Are you really suggesting that? Go back to your previous comments on education in other threads.
I stand by my comment - you do not have the skillset to make the money that doctors make. You do not have the education. You can try to argue it, but its the truth.
No. My feeling on the NBA lockout have nothing to do with what I feel about unions or healthcare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Not jealous or hating at all really.Quote:
Its clear your motives are based upon jealousy or hatred of people who have more than you. Not saying that to be snarky, just it seems you give certain groups of people a pass that you identify with, and demagogue those that you feel have too much as perceived by you.
You were discussing basketball players as though they were doctors. You need to get it together.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Last thing ill say :
Cutting the Dr. pay, wont help the poor person get health insurance.
Thats like saying "oh, we will cut Ferrari prices 20% so poor people can buy a car". It doesnt work, you can do things to let the market cause prices to FALL naturally, but any of this direct interference never works, see the housing crises, student loans, etc etc etc.
Govt intervention= rising costs (not less).
What are premiums right now? RISING year over year
NBA players= Union, League= CorporationQuote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
You just said you would break their union and hire scabs. Kinda radical statement from a progressive. Now youre starting to sound like a conservative
I pay for all that stuff too.....what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
[Quote200-300K NET is 120-180k take home BEFORE bills after taxes. Its not a lot of money at all. 2 car payments and a house note ($250-300k house) eats a lot of that up. And, as i demonstrated, they have gone through enough schooling that their professions pays that much for a reason.[/QUOTE]So my normal and their normal is different. Why is that?
[QUOTE=David88vert;39506216]I stated upper middle class from the start. That is normal. These are not the people making millions of dollars. Even Obama stated that taxes would be targeted to those making over $250K/yr. Normal was under $250K.
I have never ever suggested anything more than a weak correlation. If you go through my threads or read anything I've posted, you'd understand this. The richest man the US was a college dropout. Education and income are a weak correlation.Quote:
Education and income are not related? Are you really suggesting that? Go back to your previous comments on education in other threads.
Yes. I did not go to medical school. Good job pointing that out. What's your point?Quote:
I stand by my comment - you do not have the skillset to make the money that doctors make. You do not have the education. You can try to argue it, but its the truth.
Like I said, my feelings on the NBA lockout have nothing to do with my feelings on unions or healthcare or corporations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
I like to asses things on a case by case basis.
Simple point. If you had gone through a decade of scraping by, and incurred $150K in debt, plus debt from living expenses, and don't forget the debt from buying medial equipment, medical insurance, a house, cars, family insurance, etc, you might feel that $140K net is not exactly letting you save a lot of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
"Sinfix level" appears to be above your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Like i said, i rest my case.Quote:
Its clear your motives are based upon jealousy or hatred of people who have more than you. Not saying that to be snarky, just it seems you give certain groups of people a pass that you identify with, and demagogue those that you feel have too much as perceived by you.
Not that the two have anything to do with each other though. So, not sure how you're resting your case. It has nothing to do with jealousy or hatred. I don't hate rich people, and If I wanted to play ball professionally, or be a neurosurgeon, I would have. That's the end of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
In any case. The question posed was "why should I want to repeal Obamacare"
Are y'all's only answers "because doctors salaries might take a negligible hit?" Anything else?
Again, reading comprehension - you need to work on it. Neither of us made that statement - so you aren't quoting either of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I gave you a 2 page article on Forbes that went into details. The CBO - one of the sources that you used to use for almost every post - even estimates that Obamacare is not going to deliver what it claimed - and will cause major issues.
As it currently stands now, Obamacare needs complete reform - and it hasn't even kicked in fully.
That I should be sympathetic to the needs of upper middle class doctor families with regards to college debt. Because they deserve to be millionaires because they've worked so hard during the course of their careers. Im pretty sure that was what was said...Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
The article you linked said there are less people uninsured, and even went as far as suggesting universal healthcare was better with his fire insurance analogy. Lol.
Where is an article that youve written that has been published by Forbes?Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Thanks for confirming that you cannot comprehend what is written. That pretty much explains why you write what you write.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I could write one and have it published by them if you'd like, Why would that matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
Was this or was this not written?Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
Please do. I want to see you get anything published on Forbes, especially defending Obamacare.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
It will matter a lot to me, and probably several other people on here.
I'm close enough to Krugman, and he's a better writer than I am. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
We still want to see it from you. IA celebrity status.
I see no need to repeat points I've made at length over the last year or more. You either get it or you don't. No need to debate any further.
I see no real rebuttal to any point I've made, just my opinion
There's been more reasons than that posted in this thread, and several others. Many more.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Reading through this thread I almost felt like Total_Blender was back for a minute.
Your whole argument is a tautology. Of course money is a factor in how people live their lives but it is not the ONLY factor. That is my only message. Your last statement is quite debatable. I do not think the creators of angry birds are necessarily living a better life (ie, more valuable to society, admirable, etc) than a humble priest just because they get paid a hell of a lot more. Your view fits perfectly into an economist's capitalistic model but fails to recognize the real world factors such as the irrationality of individuals and difference in personal values.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
I wasn't arguing with you that highly skilled people usually are paid better. I was arguing that the opposite is not true. That is, getting paid a lot does not make you more skilled. Logically speaking you are saying if X then Y. That doesn't mean if Y then X. Causation vs correlation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Had to go to the DMV today, i cant wait until healthcare runs like that well oiled machine.
The government would say that the creators of Angry Birds are worth more to the government. They get lots of tax revenue off them, but nothing from the tax-exempt priests.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
Atheists probably think that the game creators are worth more as well.
People of the priest's faith probably value the priests more, but their kids probably value the game creators more.
Point is - people value what is more closely related to their day to day lives, and we are all different in our values. Even though all life should be valued the same, it rarely is.
They've gotta try and polish that turd somehow, might as well waste a few million more on it.