White is the new black.

[bu villain]

Black people are the "problem child" in america..... what about this is hard to understand?? It's pretty alarming to recognize to the impact that 15% of the population has on our crime rate. The NAACP is just an example of a commonly accepted group that drives racial segregation. The driving force behind black people being "black people" and not "people" is.... well, black people. You cant ask to have all of your accomplishments have a "black asterick" beside them and then complain when people do the same with your negatives.

The issue is you don't see the hypocrisy when you engage in the same "asterisk" designation that you rail against. Or maybe you believe two wrongs make a right. I'm not really sure. Plus, your posts are usually hostile towards blacks so your new found concern with black communities' self imposed segregation now seems feigned. Your position comes off similar to a wife beater, "I only hit you because I love you."

why should race matter? you tell me??????? i'm the one questioning the existence of all the "blacks only" organizations. I'm asking the same question..... when you find the answer, let me know.

You are changing the topic. My beef was never you questioning something a black person or group does in general, it was the frequency with which you do it compared to all other racial groups. Not long ago you started a thread with an article about a white group but you didn't do it to discuss the white group in question, you did it so you could segue into black groups. It's your continuous steering of any discussion into a discussion on blacks which is what I "chose not to ignore".

The NAACP does..... dont see anybody complaining about their representation.

The NAACP is not synonymous with all black people and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't describe themselves as asking for a crutch, a handicap, or your pity. We can discuss individual actions by the NAACP and I may even agree with you on some but I don't believe that is the goal of the group on whole.

[bu villain]

Affirmative action is a crutch.

It can be yes, but is not always.

[BanginJimmy]

It can be yes, but is not always.

When is it not? Even in the case of a bigoted hiring manager, if the black guy or woman has a strong resume, there is other employment out there. Institutional racism and bigotry is dead in this country and I would even say the mighty dollar is the reason for that. Businesses are here to make money and when they look to hire, if the black guy is the most qualified, so be it.

[bu villain]

There is no institutional discrimination against people that arent white in the US. Anyone that thinks there is is just making excuses for non achievers.

I agree that it is no longer institutionalized really but it certainly still exists.

We dont live in a true meritocracy, but our society is the closest this world has ever seen to one. There will ALWAYS be the hiring manager that selects the white guy, the straight guy, Harvard grad, or the cute girl over the black guy, the gay gay, the Princeton grad, or the ugly girl. Nothing will ever change about those things no matter what law is passed. In some arenas of life, your family name alone will get you further in life than your education or other identifying factor will.

Absolutely true but just because we are better than ever, doesn't mean there is no reason to stop fighting injustice. You are right there will always be a certain amount of unwarranted discrimination. The question is, have we reached that minimum yet or not. Intelligent people can disagree because this is not a simple question to answer.

So you do think its a crutch? It is a blunt instrument and it does lead to racial tension. I know someone who is a midlevel executive in a large firm and he is black. According to him, he had less education and went to a lower tier school than most of the people that interned and the ones that hired in with him. He was always wondering if he only got the job because of his race. Over the last decade he has moved up quite a ways and earned the respect he gets, but early on every time he screwed up he got a lot of static about being the AA quota for the year. He would tell you himself, he just might have been. He was not as qualified as others that he interned with that were not offered a full time position.

I agree it CAN be a crutch but isn't always. Maybe he got the job because of his race. Maybe another guy at another firm didn't get a job because of his race. Affirmative action helps to correct the latter situation but can have the downside of puttin an unqualified person in a position too. Therefore, affirmative action is not categorically a crutch. It depends on the circumstances. It is a blunt instrument because it may help the problem in aggregate but will be the wrong thing in some situations.

[bu villain]

When is it not? Even in the case of a bigoted hiring manager, if the black guy or woman has a strong resume, there is other employment out there. Institutional racism and bigotry is dead in this country and I would even say the mighty dollar is the reason for that. Businesses are here to make money and when they look to hire, if the black guy is the most qualified, so be it.

See my response above. I'm not as confident as you are that the business world is a meritocracy as much as we like to believe. If that were the case, personal connections would not be the number one way people get hired.

[Sinfix_15]

The issue is you don't see the hypocrisy when you engage in the same "asterisk" designation that you rail against. Or maybe you believe two wrongs make a right. I'm not really sure. Plus, your posts are usually hostile towards blacks so your new found concern with black communities' self imposed segregation now seems feigned. Your position comes off similar to a wife beater, "I only hit you because I love you."

I've stated before...... i purposefully mock some arguments to shine light on how stupid the original issue is. I am not hostile towards black people. I am hostile towards gangs, gang violence, pimps, thugs, gangsters ect.... just so happens i notice a larger presence of these things in the black community. 15% of the population accounts for 50% of our crime...... this is a problem. Your analogy is not accurate..... i dont "hit" out of love.... but i do believe we need to start doing a lot more "hitting". My stance on the criminal justice system is pretty transparent. I believe in harsh punishments for violent crime across the board. I say that every time we have a conversation about it. I dont care what color a criminal is..... but i cant help but notice what color they are. It's not like i'm saying "white criminals should be given a pass and black criminals should be treated more harshly", nope... that's something the NAACP would say, not me. My observance of color is just that.... observance. It's not a deciding factor on any decision i make.

You are changing the topic. My beef was never you questioning something a black person or group does in general, it was the frequency with which you do it compared to all other racial groups. Not long ago you started a thread with an article about a white group but you didn't do it to discuss the white group in question, you did it so you could segue into black groups. It's your continuous steering of any discussion into a discussion on blacks which is what I "chose not to ignore".

When people offend me, i speak about it. I'm not deciding for these offenses to be black people, they just are. It's not because theyre black, but i cant help but notice that they are......... cops pay more attention to red cars..... color is a part of our life.... i cant turn that part of my brain off and not notice it. I'm not ignoring white people, im not focusing on black.... i'm simply being honest about my perception of the world and unfortunately black people are on the short end of it. If i added up all the admirable people i come in contact with, it's a pretty diverse group.... honestly, black people are a large portion of that group. Just for the sake of putting a number on it... id say 40%black 45%white 10%hispanic 5%other...... but.... if i looked at the group of low life scumbags that ive ever came in contact with..... that group is about 75% black

The NAACP is not synonymous with all black people and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't describe themselves as asking for a crutch, a handicap, or your pity. We can discuss individual actions by the NAACP and I may even agree with you on some but I don't believe that is the goal of the group on whole.

Doesnt matter how THEY describe themselves...... It's what they are.

[BanginJimmy]

See my response above. I'm not as confident as you are that the business world is a meritocracy as much as we like to believe. If that were the case, personal connections would not be the number one way people get hired.

Funny that you point out personal connections here. As I said in my previous post, in some arenas, your family name will open doors for you that would have been otherwise closed.


As far as stopping injustice, we have gone as far as we can legislatively. The old guard in business is slowly being replaced by people that dont carry the same biases. In this regard, I think the only way to improve further is to allow time pass without creating a new reason for a bigotry or bias.


Think of it this way. If a white guy feels he didnt get a job he really wanted because a black guy was needed to fill a quota, there is a chance he is going to be less likely to hire a black guy if/when he moves into a position to hire.

[Sinfix_15]

Why are liberals afraid of black conservatives? | Washington Times Communities

[.blank cd]

Why are liberals afraid of black conservatives? | Washington Times Communities

Wow. If he wants me to take him seriously as a black conservative, the absolute least he could do is run his paper through a fact-checker, then a spell-checker.

[bu villain]

My observance of color is just that.... observance. It's not a deciding factor on any decision i make.
...
When people offend me, i speak about it. I'm not deciding for these offenses to be black people, they just are. It's not because theyre black, but i cant help but notice that they are.........

Overall I think this was one of the more honest statements I've seen you make so kudos for that. What I think you may not realize (or care about maybe) is that when you decide to explicitly include someone's race in a discussion, that is a choice that has implications. If you used race equally in context of both good and bad events, I would have no reason to doubt you were just including it only as a descriptor without any particular significance. It's harder to believe that though when you seem to consistently mention one particular race and in the context of something being done wrong.

Funny that you point out personal connections here. As I said in my previous post, in some arenas, your family name will open doors for you that would have been otherwise closed.

As far as stopping injustice, we have gone as far as we can legislatively. The old guard in business is slowly being replaced by people that dont carry the same biases. In this regard, I think the only way to improve further is to allow time pass without creating a new reason for a bigotry or bias.

Think of it this way. If a white guy feels he didnt get a job he really wanted because a black guy was needed to fill a quota, there is a chance he is going to be less likely to hire a black guy if/when he moves into a position to hire.

A well reasoned response. Saying we have gone as far as we should legislatively is obviously an opinion which not everyone agrees with but with such a difficult to quantify issue, I also can't say you are wrong.

[Sinfix_15]

Overall I think this was one of the more honest statements I've seen you make so kudos for that. What I think you may not realize (or care about maybe) is that when you decide to explicitly include someone's race in a discussion, that is a choice that has implications. If you used race equally in context of both good and bad events, I would have no reason to doubt you were just including it only as a descriptor without any particular significance. It's harder to believe that though when you seem to consistently mention one particular race and in the context of something being done wrong.

If i had equal portions of good and bad events to discuss, we probably wouldnt be having this discussion to begin with. The foundation of the conversation we're currently having is me complaining about the disproportionate amount of bad events available to speak about. I offer my honest opinion and however it lands, it is what it is. I dont monitor my thoughts in a way to keep inventory on how many good and bad things i say about a particular topic. I speak my mind. If it turns out to be 99% negativity, so be it. It's not planned or predetermined.

[bu villain]

At this point, we have both stated our sides so I won't continue to belabor this topic any further. My final statement would be, if race is not an important factor in whatever statement you are making, I suggest omitting it in the future. Since it is not an important factor, it won't take away from your argument and it will prevent any confusion about what your real concern is. It's not about being PC, it's about communicating effectively.

[Sinfix_15]

At this point, we have both stated our sides so I won't continue to belabor this topic any further. My final statement would be, if race is not an important factor in whatever statement you are making, I suggest omitting it in the future. Since it is not an important factor, it won't take away from your argument and it will prevent any confusion about what your real concern is. It's not about being PC, it's about communicating effectively.

I agree. I hope to one day live in a world where this is possible.

[Sinfix_15]

NAACP Condones IRS Persecution Of Conservative, Jews | The Dana Show

[Sinfix_15]

Sheila Jackson Lee says GOP complicating debt debate because Obama is black - Spokane Conservative | Examiner.com

[Sinfix_15]

[Sinfix_15]

JAMES EDWARDS » Blog Archive Northwestern University man denied position on student government because he is a

[David88vert]

JAMES EDWARDS » Blog Archive Northwestern University man denied position on student government because he is a

From the article:
"Ian Coley, a student on the Associate Student Government Diversity and Inclusion Committee, later said white heterosexual males are not qualified to hold the position of associate vice president of diversity and inclusion."
“This university is not ready, in any capacity, for a heterosexual white male to be in charge in any way of diversity and inclusion,” said Coley, according to the Daily Northwestern.


Hmmm.... diversity and inclusion.....perhaps they don't know the definition of inclusion....

[Sinfix_15]

From the article:
"Ian Coley, a student on the Associate Student Government Diversity and Inclusion Committee, later said white heterosexual males are not qualified to hold the position of associate vice president of diversity and inclusion."
“This university is not ready, in any capacity, for a heterosexual white male to be in charge in any way of diversity and inclusion,” said Coley, according to the Daily Northwestern.


Hmmm.... diversity and inclusion.....perhaps they don't know the definition of inclusion....

There's white people and then there's everyone else. White racism is ok....

[Browning151]

From the article:
"Ian Coley, a student on the Associate Student Government Diversity and Inclusion Committee, later said white heterosexual males are not qualified to hold the position of associate vice president of diversity and inclusion."
“This university is not ready, in any capacity, for a heterosexual white male to be in charge in any way of diversity and inclusion,” said Coley, according to the Daily Northwestern.


Hmmm.... diversity and inclusion.....perhaps they don't know the definition of inclusion....

That seems to be the case with a lot of groups that preach diversity, acceptance etc. etc.