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Thread: Gun Control Bill

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    Default Gun Control Bill

    is now cleared for debate. I am happy to see Senate GOP went along with getting it out of committee and into the full Senate. It isnt going to be passed anywhere near its current form, if at all. Even if it did, it has zero chance of passing in the House. I think this is the smartest thing the Senate GOP has done in a few years. There are 3 or 4 Senate dems in pro gun rights states that I am sure are dreading having to pick which side to support. Do they side with their party and risk backlash from voters, or do they side with voters and risk backlash, and possibly a primary challenge, from their party?

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    This bill is nothing more than posturing, and is a waste of our tax dollars. Congress should be putting its efforts into developing legislation that can pass, and that is based on logic and reason, rather than emotion. If Congress would simply review and remove a lot of the legislation that no longer has merit, and simplify the legal and tax codes, that would be a far better use of our tax dollars.

    The Federal Register is the main source of regulations for U.S. government agencies. In 1936, the number of pages in the Federal Register was about 2,600. Today, the Federal Register is over 80,000 pages long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Congress should be putting its efforts into developing legislation that can pass, and that is based on logic and reason, rather than emotion.
    What is the contents of this mythical legislation you speak of? haha...cry

    Btw, I would love for congress to spend 50% of their time removing legislation that no longer makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    What is the contents of this mythical legislation you speak of? haha...cry

    Btw, I would love for congress to spend 50% of their time removing legislation that no longer makes sense.
    I would love to see that. They can start with the tax code.

    My idea is quite simple, therefore, impossible to move beyond IA.

    A progressive flat tax with the following rates. Using this years poverty line for a family of 4 as the lowest bracket.

    0-23,550 0%

    23,551 - 47000 2.5%

    47001 - 80000 5%

    80001 - 120k 8%

    120,001 - 150k 10%

    150,001 - 250k 15%

    250k - 500K 20%

    500K+ 25%


    No deductions, no credits, no nothing. Which also means no loopholes and no special favors to friends. The only exemptions from reportable income would be dedicated retirement accounts which cannot be drawn upon until age 65.

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    What is the contents of this mythical legislation you speak of? haha...cry

    Btw, I would love for congress to spend 50% of their time removing legislation that no longer makes sense.
    Simplify the tax code, comprehensive immigration reform, tort reform, long term planning for federal infrastructure projects, studying real cost reductions to actually pass a real plan that will reduce the federal deficit, etc. - stuff that actually will make a difference in the majority of American's lives, rather than just political posturing.

    Over 40,000 laws were passed last year across the country, but the 112th Congress only got 219 signed by Obama. That's the most unproductive Congress since the 1940s - including the 104th Congress. Congress was more worried about truckers on cell phones than the big federal issues. At least 40 bills, including ones awaiting Obama's signature, concerned the renaming of post offices or other public buildings. Another six dealt with commemorative coins.

    When I say Congress, I don't mean just the Democrats. The Republicans are to blame just as much. 115 times the Republican minority has held up a bill's passage by threatening to filibuster it. House Republicans have also held votes to repeal Obamacare more than 30 times since gaining control of the chamber in 2011, despite the fact that such a measure has no chance of passing the Democratically controlled Senate or being signed by Obama.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    I would love to see that. They can start with the tax code.

    My idea is quite simple, therefore, impossible to move beyond IA.

    A progressive flat tax with the following rates. Using this years poverty line for a family of 4 as the lowest bracket.
    Not perfect but I would definitely take it over our current tax code.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Simplify the tax code, comprehensive immigration reform, tort reform, long term planning for federal infrastructure projects, studying real cost reductions to actually pass a real plan that will reduce the federal deficit, etc. - stuff that actually will make a difference in the majority of American's lives, rather than just political posturing.
    Yeah I was joking about how it's almost impossible for anything to pass right now no matter how logical it is. It would be hard to pass a resolution that says "kittens are cute" in this congress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    I would love to see that. They can start with the tax code.

    My idea is quite simple, therefore, impossible to move beyond IA.

    A progressive flat tax with the following rates. Using this years poverty line for a family of 4 as the lowest bracket.

    [/B]0-23,550 0%.[/b]
    Fox News Headline: MORE THAN HALF OF AMERICANS PAY NO INCOME TAX. IS THIS THE KIND OF SOCIALIST WORLD YOU WANT TO LIVE IN? OBAMA SAYS YES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    Yeah I was joking about how it's almost impossible for anything to pass right now no matter how logical it is. It would be hard to pass a resolution that says "kittens are cute" in this congress.
    Definitely true. Kick them all out and start over.
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    Dont support anything in any gun control bill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Definitely true. Kick them all out and start over.
    Come the mid-terms, I have decided to again vote against any and all incumbents. We need real leadership at all levels of govt, all we have now are hacks looking to score political points and add to their own power base.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Dont support anything in any gun control bill.
    You dont know whats in it so how could you say you do or dont support it? You may have seen the outlines from one biased source or another, but you havent seen an actual bill yet. The bill doesnt exist, they havent even set a date to start debate yet.



    BTW, I am all for expanding background checks to private sales. I am absolutely positive the dems will screw it up by over reaching in same way though. because of that, there is no possible way this bill would ever get 60 votes and pass in the Senate, never mind the House.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    You dont know whats in it so how could you say you do or dont support it? You may have seen the outlines from one biased source or another, but you havent seen an actual bill yet. The bill doesnt exist, they havent even set a date to start debate yet.



    BTW, I am all for expanding background checks to private sales. I am absolutely positive the dems will screw it up by over reaching in same way though. because of that, there is no possible way this bill would ever get 60 votes and pass in the Senate, never mind the House.
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s649/text

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    I dont know how I missed this. All I could find was the summary from committee.



    Anyways, what specific parts are you against and why?

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    I would like to know if Sinflix thinks we should have any laws at all related to guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    I dont know how I missed this. All I could find was the summary from committee.



    Anyways, what specific parts are you against and why?
    Yep, just one of the many times you jump to conclusions about my understanding of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Yep, just one of the many times you jump to conclusions about my understanding of things.
    Didnt sound like he was jumping to conclusions to me. What parts of that bill did you disagree with and why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Didnt sound like he was jumping to conclusions to me. What parts of that bill did you disagree with and why?
    You have a habit of thinking anyone who disagrees with you is misinformed. I am aware of current events, my opinion of them is simply different from your own.

    A gun is my private property. My private property and what i do with it is none of your business. I've been saying "why" for a pretty good while now.... i feel like there's a 60 page thread somewhere around here discussing this issue.

    I do not support universal background checks. I do not support my doctor inquiring about my private property. I am perfectly fine with gun culture in america. I dont see a need to reduce gun or ammunition sales by 1 gun or a single bullet. I am offended even by the name of this bill "safe communities, safe schools act" its nothing more than political posturing so during the next debate they can say "republicans voted against safe schools".... i've said that before.... a dozen times. I posted a video of a constitutional lawyer reviewing this bill...... but you all swiftly disregard my posts.

    I read over this bill a couple days ago and got annoyed with it........ i dont care to do it again right this moment. Some time over the weekend i will take the time to specifically highlight my issues with it for the sake of having a "real debate"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    I would like to know if Sinflix thinks we should have any laws at all related to guns.
    Regarding the limitation of or ability to exchange them between law abiding citizens, no. I see no reason for the federal government to have an inventory of my gun collection or how and where i acquired them. When i commit a crime, punish me. A felon purchasing a gun is against the law, when a felon victimizes me by purchasing one of my guns, punish him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    You have a habit of thinking anyone who disagrees with you is misinformed. I am aware of current events, my opinion of them is simply different from your own.
    I don't have and have never offered an opinion on the matter, the question that was asked was what parts of the bill did you disagree with and why? It couldn't be any simpler.

    A gun is my private property. My private property and what i do with it is none of your business.
    Thats fine. Is your car or your brand new bike your private property, and do you feel like what you do with it is your business?

    Do you disagree with licensing and registering said car and or bike?

    I do not support universal background checks. I do not support my doctor inquiring about my private property. I am perfectly fine with gun culture in america.
    So you feel like the amount of violent crime with guns is at an acceptable level and there's nothing we should do about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Regarding the limitation of or ability to exchange them between law abiding citizens, no. I see no reason for the federal government to have an inventory of my gun collection or how and where i acquired them. When i commit a crime, punish me. A felon purchasing a gun is against the law, when a felon victimizes me by purchasing one of my guns, punish him.
    Do you feel like gun retailers are being punished by being required to do a background check?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Thats fine. Is your car or your brand new bike your private property, and do you feel like what you do with it is your business?
    Yes, they are my private property. I can buy 5000 motorcycles and park them in a warehouse in my backyard if i want to without registering any of them. I can also take them to track without registering them or use them privately on my own property. Registering them is a condition of using the public roads. I can have 500 handguns in my closet if i want to.... but if i want to carry one in public i need a permit.

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Do you disagree with licensing and registering said car and or bike?
    Nope... there's no punishment for not registering either and i am free to use both on my own property.

    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    So you feel like the amount of violent crime with guns is at an acceptable level and there's nothing we should do about it?
    The mistake you're making is in associating crime and guns. Guns do not commit crimes, criminals do. We can do plenty about criminals....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    The mistake you're making is in associating crime and guns. Guns do not commit crimes, criminals do. We can do plenty about criminals....
    Ahhhh....

    So you believe that a gun is a tool, and that fact makes it indistinguishable from a fork or a car or a baseball bat, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Ahhhh....

    So you believe that a gun is a tool, and that fact makes it indistinguishable from a fork or a car or a baseball bat, correct?
    Pretty much. Evil people had no problem being evil long before the gun ever came around. Guns might be the most significant tool in the history of humanity. We could sit here and talk for days about all of the great accomplishments that were made possible because of guns or how much better our lives are because of guns. Maybe we should take that turn and steer away from all this negativity.

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    anyways, i dont want to spam Jimmy's thread. I'll post up my review of the bill when i find the time to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Ahhhh....

    So you believe that a gun is a tool, and that fact makes it indistinguishable from a fork or a car or a baseball bat, correct?
    Let me put it in a way that you can understand.
    I own a camera. The importation of them is regulated, and sales tax has to be paid when I purchase it.
    I can shoot it as much as I like on my own property. I do not have to register it.
    If I get paid to shoot it, I have to pay taxes. If I shoot it for a living, I need a business license.
    If I want to sell it, I can do just that. I do not have to check to see if the buyer is legally allowed to purchase it. I do not need to get their name, address, phone number, or anything else.
    If they take the camera and shoot it where it is not allowed, they get punished. I do not get punished, as I have committed no crime.

    Now, change "camera" to "assault-style weapon".
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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Now, change "camera" to "assault-style weapon".
    Ok. If I'm a felon, am I allowed to have a camera?

    And if I'm a felon, can I go buy a camera at at best buy with no background check?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Ok. If I'm a felon, am I allowed to have a camera?

    And if I'm a felon, can I go buy a camera at at best buy with no background check?
    Now, change "camera" to "assault-style weapon".

    There are laws already in place to cover felons. Are you a felon? If not, then your questions above do not apply to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    Now, change "camera" to "assault-style weapon".

    There are laws already in place to cover felons. Are you a felon? If not, then your questions above do not apply to you.
    So there is already laws to stop the transfer of "assault style weapons" to felons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    A gun is my private property. My private property and what i do with it is none of your business. I've been saying "why" for a pretty good while now.... i feel like there's a 60 page thread somewhere around here discussing this issue.

    I do not support universal background checks. I do not support my doctor inquiring about my private property. I am perfectly fine with gun culture in america. I dont see a need to reduce gun or ammunition sales by 1 gun or a single bullet. I am offended even by the name of this bill "safe communities, safe schools act" its nothing more than political posturing so during the next debate they can say "republicans voted against safe schools".... i've said that before.... a dozen times. I posted a video of a constitutional lawyer reviewing this bill......
    A gun is private property. You can do whatever you wish with it on your own property (provided you have enough property to use it safely). If you want to sell that weapon to another individual, I dont think it is unreasonable to ask the seller and buyer to do a simple background check to make sure the buyer is legally allowed to own a firearm.

    The real question, and one I have a hard time answering is, is this even enforceable without 1005 gun registry? I dont know that it is.

    As for doctors asking about weapons, there is absolutely no reason they shouldnt be able to ask, especially if they can articulate a specific reasoning to believe you ma hurt yourself or others. At the same time, there is no reason you should be compelled to answer if you dont want to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    but you all swiftly disregard my posts.
    Because you post some much BS it gets tiresome sifting through it to find a reasonable post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Regarding the limitation of or ability to exchange them between law abiding citizens, no. I see no reason for the federal government to have an inventory of my gun collection or how and where i acquired them. When i commit a crime, punish me. A felon purchasing a gun is against the law, when a felon victimizes me by purchasing one of my guns, punish him.
    Enforceability?


    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    So you feel like the amount of violent crime with guns is at an acceptable level and there's nothing we should do about it?
    There are absolutely zero links between legal gun ownership and gun crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    There are laws already in place to cover felons. Are you a felon? If not, then your questions above do not apply to you.
    The strange thing about felons is that they have a hard time abiding by the law.



    I get why people would be against background checks and I get why people want them. Until the question of enforceability is answered though, I just dont know how much good it can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    So there is already laws to stop the transfer of "assault style weapons" to felons?
    Yes there are, but it requires felons to be on the honor system when dealing with private sales.


    I have sold 1 weapon to a private individual. I still have the bill of sale and a copy of the buyers concealed carry permit. I wouldnt sell to someone without a carry permit without doing a background check. Not because of the law, but because I believe it is the responsibility of a gun owner to do everything reasonable to prevent a felon from getting a weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Yes there are, but it requires felons to be on the honor system when dealing with private sales.


    I have sold 1 weapon to a private individual. I still have the bill of sale and a copy of the buyers concealed carry permit. I wouldnt sell to someone without a carry permit without doing a background check. Not because of the law, but because I believe it is the responsibility of a gun owner to do everything reasonable to prevent a felon from getting a weapon.
    And, as a private seller, you have the choice to restrict your sale based upon conditions. The key there is you are not required by law to do that, and you cannot face criminal charges yourself for not doing a check. If the law is changes to where every private sale has to go through a background check, there had better be a really robust and privacy-sensitive system in place; otherwise, there will simply be a push for a national gun registration, which we have seen in history how that plays out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert View Post
    And, as a private seller, you have the choice to restrict your sale based upon conditions. The key there is you are not required by law to do that, and you cannot face criminal charges yourself for not doing a check. If the law is changes to where every private sale has to go through a background check, there had better be a really robust and privacy-sensitive system in place; otherwise, there will simply be a push for a national gun registration, which we have seen in history how that plays out.
    I get you and I am completely against a national registry. Just look at the recent case in NY where the state tried to take a guy's guns away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Regarding the limitation of or ability to exchange them between law abiding citizens, no. I see no reason for the federal government to have an inventory of my gun collection or how and where i acquired them. When i commit a crime, punish me. A felon purchasing a gun is against the law, when a felon victimizes me by purchasing one of my guns, punish him.
    I'm really asking about all gun laws, not just the new ones being proposed. What laws should we have regarding gun ownership if any? Are the laws we have now perfect? Would you remove, add, or modify some? It would help to understand where you are coming from if I knew where you thought we should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    I'm really asking about all gun laws, not just the new ones being proposed. What laws should we have regarding gun ownership if any? Are the laws we have now perfect? Would you remove, add, or modify some? It would help to understand where you are coming from if I knew where you thought we should be.
    I support laws regarding the safe use of guns. Nothing else...... no limitations to law abiding citizens.

    A felon owning a gun isnt safe, we already have laws against it, enforce them. You dont ticket someone for buying a corvette, you ticket them if they speed. Quit assuming that because people can sell a gun to a criminal, that they are, and punish people when they do. "innocent until proven guilty"..... that's the foundation of our legal system.... abide by it.... even when it's difficult. Yes, it's difficult to control guns..... but our way of life is more important than streamlining the system for our government. The constitution didnt guarantee your safety and it didnt guarantee that police officers would have an easy job. We're free people..... unfortunately with freedom comes the freedom to do evil things, when people do evil things.... punish them.

    I do not want universal background checks or any "inventory-like" system regarding guns.... i hope the government assumes that there's 35 AR15s in everyone's basement..... i dont want them to know...... The government should fear it's people. Fear is healthy in some relationships. At no point in the history of humanity did the consolidation of power work out in favor of those giving up power.

    Our government has a problem with symbolism over substance. These proposed new laws will have zero effect on any of the recent tragedies. Assault rifles are being used as a martyr. The dishonesty on display by these politicians gives even more reason to speculate about their intentions.

    The 2nd amendment had nothing to do with duck hunting. It had nothing to do with safety..... Freedom is dangerous, they said that from the beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    I support laws regarding the safe use of guns. Nothing else...... no limitations to law abiding citizens.

    A felon owning a gun isnt safe, we already have laws against it, enforce them. You dont ticket someone for buying a corvette, you ticket them if they speed....
    Well you started to answer my question and then went off on a rant. Can you be more specific about what laws support the safe use of guns (a very vague notion) in addition to felons not being allowed to own them? I'm not trying to trick you or anything. I just want a comprehensive list of laws you think are appropriate, not a list of laws that are NOT appropriate.

    FYI, you spelled Barack wrong in your sig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    Well you started to answer my question and then went off on a rant. Can you be more specific about what laws support the safe use of guns (a very vague notion) in addition to felons not being allowed to own them? I'm not trying to trick you or anything. I just want a comprehensive list of laws you think are appropriate, not a list of laws that are NOT appropriate.

    FYI, you spelled Barack wrong in your sig.
    My list of gun laws is very short.

    Dont use them for criminal activity. Dont allow criminals to have them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    My list of gun laws is very short.

    Dont use them for criminal activity. Dont allow criminals to have them.
    Those aren't laws, those are vague notions. Crimes are crimes whether you use a gun or not. Are you saying their should be a law that provides harsher punishment for a crime when it is commited with a gun rather than another weapon?

    Don't allow criminals to have them? Is that limited to felons or to any record whatsoever? Do you support any laws for enforcement of that (e.g., background checks) or just to punish them after the fact?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bu villain View Post
    Those aren't laws, those are vague notions. Crimes are crimes whether you use a gun or not. Are you saying their should be a law that provides harsher punishment for a crime when it is commited with a gun rather than another weapon?

    Don't allow criminals to have them? Is that limited to felons or to any record whatsoever? Do you support any laws for enforcement of that (e.g., background checks) or just to punish them after the fact?
    Stricter punishments for existing crimes when a gun is used.

    Felons. Punish them after the fact. No i do not support universal background checks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Stricter punishments for existing crimes when a gun is used.

    Felons. Punish them after the fact. No i do not support universal background checks.
    Ok so those are the only two gun related laws you would support. Am I correct in then concluding that you do not want any restriction on what weapons a normal citizen can have all the way up to rocket launchers, tanks, nukes, etc? What about age restrictions, should a child be allowed to own any such weapon as well? You say you don't support universal background checks but are there any background checks you do support? Sorry for all the questions I'm just trying to figure out exactly how far you want to go on liberalizing guns.

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