News article - "white student union"
"The White Student Union (WSU) is a controversial unaffiliated organization founded in Towson, Maryland by Matthew Heimbach, who is a former member of Youth for Western Civilization and current supporter of the American Third Position Party. The group advocates for white nationalism and what it sees as the interests of white Americans, and openly supports far-right European political parties. It has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center."
"The group's existence has caused a series of nationally reported controversies and accusations of promoting racial bigotry and white supremacy. It has invited self-described "racial realist" Jared Taylor to speak at one of its meetings, which attracted an attendance of nearly 250.[1] Heimbach said he started the group because of "a culture of crime where primarily it's nonwhites doing it to white students and we perpetually have to live in a system of victimhood."[2] He also said "We'd also want to create a safe space for members who have filed hate/bias reports and who have had anti-white language used against them....Especially the female members who have heard 'cracker' and 'honkie,' and nothing has ever come of it. It’s a support network for a campus that is hostile toward white students."[3]
Heimbach has been photographed waving a Confederate flag outside of Martin Luther King Jr.'s church in Montgomery, Alabama.[4] The White Student Union has been seeking official recognition by the college, arguing that the college needs to officially recognize the group in order to show that it does not discriminate against white students. A change.org petition was circulated urging the campus not to recognize a "whites only" group.[5] Heimbach has said that at least 17 students had expressed interest in joining the group as of September 7, 2012.[4] Towson University itself is 68 percent white and 13 percent black.[6]"
Not that I support what they're doing and probably the reasons why they're doing it but I'm glad they are. America, land of the free and home of the brave.
I read the article but can't figure out why he thinks the crimes are racially motivated. If 68% of the campus is white, of course they will the victim of most of the crimes (no matter who the perpetrator is). Does a few girls being called honky make all the crimes racially motivated? I don't really care if he wants to make a whites only group, but I'm not sure why the school should have to recognize it either.
dbl post
Can i use that against the common "more white people are on welfare" argument..... you know.... because 70% of the population is white.Originally Posted by bu villain
Also, not to sour the subject..... but seeing as how 70% of the population is white.... they SHOULD be at the top of every crime statistic too right?
Sure you can, but why does it matter what skin color people on welfare have anyway?
By percentage and all other things being equal, yes they should. But again, why does it matter?
Well, a lot of reasons come to mind.... but i guess i'll go with this one....
because it matters to black people. You cant put so much effort into segregating everything and then complain when it isnt convenient. Besides, why shouldnt we put any thought into the elevated crime rate in the black community? isnt it something that we should attempt to understand and correct?
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 04-01-2013 at 06:33 PM.
Actually your last two sentences is exactly what I was getting at. I agree it matters, but the "why" is what is important. Does this guy want to start the White Student Union because whites are actually being targeted for their race, or is that just a result of their numbers. The article doesn't address why he thinks its a racial issue beyond a few girls being called "honky". As far as the elevated crime in the black community, is that because black people are naturally criminals as some seem to think, because blacks are disproportionately poor, or something else? The why is what is critical. People get so wound up over whether a group is a "white group" or a "black group" but there is little discussion of why those groups exist.
I dont buy the disproportionately poor excuse. Most of the racial labeling is driven by the black community as well, so hard to feel sorry for them when they complain about it.
Would you be questioning the validity of the cause if this were a black group?? if so..... NAACP?
And people dont get "wound up" over black groups..... yet every white group must go through a rigorous process of proving theyre not racist.
is it completely unfathomable to believe that white people's annoyance with black people is simply because this is far too common of a scene in any location that is predominantly black? Do black people seriously still believe that the majority of people who have grievances with them is simply because they look at them and think "ewwwww black skin" ?
Your intentions are transparent. It's clear you have no intention of actually discussing the article you posted which is about a white group, not a black group. If you didn't turn every topic involving race turn into a tirade against black people, I would have more respect for you. And despite this obsession with the black community's problems, I have yet to hear you offer anything constructive.
I think you alone are wound up enough over black groups for everyone
The article is about a white group acting as security at a campus. They proclaim that a majority of the crime is black on white. The media's interest in it has been strictly to expose the supposed racism of said group. This is a microcosm of a problem a majority of america is experiencing.
It's not my job to "offer anything constructive", maybe i do not feel the solution is constructive at all. I'm not one who feels we should devote a lot of effort into rehabilitating criminals. My answer to the problem is stricter punishments for every violent criminal behavior. Rape, armed robbery, breaking into a home or any other crime that is violent in nature should carry a life sentence. Quit putting these people back out on the streets after they have committed crimes. That's my solution. I dont care what color criminals are, i view them all the same...... it just so happens that criminal activity has a knack for choosing predominantly black neighborhoods. My own personal opinion is that it's cultural. There's absolutely nothing a white guy like me can do to change black culture. I respect people like Will Smith who try to be positive role models, but for every Will Smith there's 190581905890138590138590185 Wacka Flackas.
if im "wound up" over black groups its because im tired of hearing the NAACP and black panthers cry and moan anytime someone steps on the shoes of a black person, but they have no comment when a black kid shoots a toddler in the face because his mother didnt have any cash on her.
The problem is, I don't see any evidence that the crime is racially motivated. What is the reason for segregating race in this particular case? If you think we should not have any groups that are segregated by race, then you should be as outraged by this as you are about the NAACP or any black group, and yet I don't hear equal condemnation coming from you. If hypocrisy bothers you so much, you don't fight it by employing it.
This article has nothing to do with rehabilitating criminals? The article is about whether the school should recognize this white student group, not about black groups in general, or the total off in the weeds topic of criminal rehabilitation.
I don't understand why you feel it is your job to rail against black groups but offering anything constructive is something you feel no responsibility to do. You think that since you are a white guy, there is nothing you can do to change black culture? I'm surprised to see such a victim mentality out of you. You regularly offer suggestions for what should be regarding global economics, UN treaties, and gun rights issues but even suggesting solutions to cultural problems in the black community is beyond your grasp? A more logical answer would be that you simply don't care about the black community except to the extent that certain aspects of it annoy you. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath.
I understand you want to vent but at some point you have to accept the reality of things. At that point you can either accept that you are not going to change them or you can try to take some action, no matter how small. You are choosing a third option which is to simply rant endlessly about it, which is simply childish. Do you really think the NAACP needs to hold a press conference to condemn shooting toddlers in the face? I'm a bit stunned by the suggestion.
I dont think the crimes are racially motivated and really dont think its that important to prove they are racially motivated.If it were me, i wouldnt go about it the way they are but I believe them when they say most of the crime is generated from black people, regardless of who their victim is. It's not because i see any great evidence of the matter, it's because i'm judging from my own person experience. When i look out my front door, that's what i see. When i look at my home town, that's what i see. When i look at every place i've ever traveled, that's what i see. When i look at the TV, that's what i see. I mention rehabilitation only because that's my solution to the problem. Quit trying to rehabilitate criminals, lock them up and keep them locked up.
There's no rule that says you have to be a nice caring person, which is a good thing, because i would break that rule if there was one. The parts of the black community i am currently complaining about, no.... i dont care..... for any other reason than i'm tired of having that thorn in my side. I'm only interested in helping people who want to help themselves. I dont want to talk anybody off a ledge, i dont want to convince anybody to leave their gang or quit doing drugs, i dont want to convince any pimps that women should be treated with respect..... none of that is of any interest to me what so ever. Lock them all up and throw away the key. The reason young kids think crime pays.... is because it does. I support anyone of any color who is trying to walk down the right path, i dont support mercy for anyone who isnt. The only color issue to me is simply acknowledging the statistics. My opinion would be the same if crimes were 99.9% white.
I dont think the NAACP needs to do anything but disappear. Apply your logic from the beginning of this post to this portion. When has the NAACP ever needed proof that something was racially motivated to make it a racial issue. Trayvon Martin case..... hispanic man shoots a black boy and the headline is "what if Trayvon was white".... White people are constantly demonized even when they lack involvement. It's not that i want the NAACP to comment on black crimes.... its that i want them to STFU about anything. Theyre a race mongering group and nothing more.
News case from this week.......
Murder victim's family outraged to learn Ebel may have been released early | 9news.com
White supremacist, notoriously violent, 28 incidents inside prison, threatened to kill guards ect.......
They let him out of prison by the mistake of a clerical error and he goes and kills the prison chief and another man who was a married father of 2. The families are rightfully angered that something like this could happen. The guy was released from prison 4 years too soon.
my reaction to this story....... why would he ever be released period? Quit putting criminals back on the streets. Our government cant handle the criminal problem in america yet they want to take everyone's guns away. I was listening to a bleeding heart liberal idiot on the news this morning saying we should do away with the death penalty for a lot of reasons, but one was that it was too expensive. That they spend X millions dollars to execute someone. Perhaps the government needs to start contracting that one out..... because my solution is about $50 worth of rope from home depot.
I view it like this....
You and i would both like to see a nice lush garden...
your idea is that we need to go into our garden, prune all the little sprouts and make sure the tomatoes are propped up and help everything grow...
my idea is that we need to pull all the weeds and everything else will be fine on it's own.
we both want the same things.... we simply dont agree on how to get them.
If you want to discuss general racial crime statistics, that's fine but don't start the conversation with an article that is really about something else entirely. The article you posted has nothing to do with criminal rehabilitation or the NAACP. I feel like your anger for black crime and organizations is like a dying star and any news story that even hints at a racial topic gets sucked into its massive gravity.
I'm not saying you have to care... really. But why keep bringing up an issue when you have no interest in actually discussing solutions for? If you are just after acknowledgement of the statistics, I have no problem saying blacks commit more crimes per capita than whites. Does that mean you will stop bringing up these issues constantly? Maybe I wouldn't have such a hard time if you just explain what you are hoping to accomplish with these posts since you have already stated you aren't interested in discussing solutions.
If you want to discuss NAACP, fine. But use an article about the NAACP to do it, not this one about a white student group that has nothing to do with the NAACP.
I agree, why would he be released? I don't know the answer but I'm not going to discuss it anymore in this thread because it is already so off topic. Then you are bringing up gun rights. You have made it from all white student group not being recognized on campus to prison clerical error and gun rights in less than a page. We can't have a meaningful discussion when the thread is basically your stream of consciousness.
So how does your plan translate to real life? You want to imprison (or kill?) all the hoodrats?
Fair enough, i understand i went off on a tangent.
What i want to accomplish? i guess recognition is it. As obvious as it seems to be.... i dont think people realize the discrepancy in crime statistics. I want that to be recognized and addressed.
Yes.
Gang members should be viewed as terrorists and treated as such. Seal team 6 didnt kick down Bin Laden's door and read him his rights.
I don't think Bin Laden was an American citizen on American soil. I may be wrong though, might wanna check my facts on that.
So you're against violating the rights of gang members but ok with stripping every american citizen of their rights? makes sense.....
So we dont step on any toes in the gang community, lets just strip american citizens of their right to arms in hopes of drying up the supply of guns for criminals.
What on earth are you talking about?
You dont agree violent gang members are terrorists?
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 04-04-2013 at 04:16 PM.
You accidentally a word
my guy was moving the teleprompter too slow and i had to adlib.... edited.
How did you get that out of what I said?
Well if the statistics aren't clear enough I don't think there is much else you can do. You want it to be addressed but you also say you aren't willing to offer solutions. That's the definition of a victim, being injured and complaining about it while expecting others to take action. I would like crime addressed as well and I would be glad to discuss solutions, but I see no reason to focus on crimes committed by blacks as somehow fundamentally different than other crimes.
Gang members, hoodrats, and the black community are not one in the same. Do you not believe in the concept of the punishment fitting the crime? Should petty theives be sentenced in the same way as violent criminals? What is your evidence that harsher sentences would decrease crime? As far as I know, there aren't significantly less murders in states with the death penalty. In some places in the middle east and northern africa, they cut off limbs for stealing. It hasn't stopped theft though. Punishment after the fact simply isn't all that effective at preventing crimes in the future.
Nobody said to focus on blacks. I expect Blank to try and put words in my mouth, dont need you to jump on that bandwagon too.
Here you go again...... "hoodrats" was your word, not mine. I said specifically...... "violent crimes".... said it multiple times. What part of "violent crime" makes you think petty thief?
What is my evidence that harsher sentences would prevent crime? well, i can guarantee that the same criminal will not commit the same crime. That's about as good as it gets. If some guy rapes someone, i can guarantee that he would never do it again. If some guy robs a store at gun point, i would guarantee that he never did it again. The guy with no arms in africa cant steal anything anymore....
If criminals are so stupid that they continue to be criminals even in the face of life sentences, do you think you're going to be able to bargain with that person peacefully? Is there something you're going to be able to say to them that will resonate deeper than the threat of punishment?
Lets hear your solution.....
provide for everyone so that they have no need to steal? let the government be in charge of all the "petty theft"..... pass out whistles to prevent rape, ban guns to prevent gang violence...?
Give me some crime examples and i will gladly offer you my recommended punishment.
Spoiler alert, if it involves a gun being used to take something of monetary value away from another peaceful civilian.... the offender is probably gonna be dodging ass rape in the shower for the next 50-60 years.
It's not your words that led me to that conclusion it is your actions. It seems like every week or so you post something about black crime but rarely do you post about other crimes and specifically call out the race of the perpetrator.
In post #18, I said "You want to imprison (or kill?) all the hoodrats?". In post #20 you quoted that questions and replied "Yes." Seems pretty clear to me. If you want to revise that answer, go ahead but hopefully you can see how I got that from your answer.
I totally understand where you are coming from but there is one major problem I have with that idea. There are many people who go to jail and do go on to lead good lives afterwards. I'm not saying there should be no punishment, I'm just saying that threatening with someone 30 years instead of 20 years is not going to do much to prevent that crime. I don't believe that once a criminal, always a criminal and keeping people locked up for longer than necessary has negative affects that ripple through society.
As you already know, there is no solution to stopping all crime but there are ways to decrease it. Here are three suggestions which are by no means comprehensive:
1) Increase availability of after school and sports programs particularly for areas where gangs and crime are common.
2) Increase availability of training programs for unemployed/low income people so they see a path to a more successful future.
3) Stop locking people up for non-violent drug crimes which destroys families
No need to discuss penalties for individual crimes. That's more detail than necessary. I was just asking if you generally want to punish all crimes extremely harshly (e.g., stealing should have the same punishment as rape) That was the implication I got from your "pulling out the weeds" comment but I wanted clarification.
The spotlight on white people is large enough, i see no cause to add to it. You already agreed that black people account for a higher % of crime. I post more about black people. Simple math. Almost every single crime by a white person is labeled a hate crime or race related. A lot of them are false. White people are the least defended race in the court of public opinion.
No i dont..... and i thought you were above such a simple argument. You chose the label "hoodrats", not me.
This is why i specify violent criminals. Expend our rehabilitation efforts on others more worthy. If someone is a violent rapist, i honestly dont care if they would spend the next half of their life being a preacher that saves baby kittens from burning trees and opens a youth camp for orphans. They dont deserve that life and allowing it to them offers a light at the end of the tunnel for other potential criminals. When a potential criminal makes the decision to commit a crime, he needs to be aware of what awaits him, in an effort to prevent the crime in the first place.
I have specified VIOLENT CRIMINALS a dozen times...... i dont want to send people to prison for shoplifting...... but i do not agree with mercy for violent criminals. You use a gun to commit a crime.... life sentence.
I agree with those things too...... but i also already see them in place. A basketball court for young kids in downtown chicago serves no purpose when their pick up game of hoops puts them at risk of being in a gang crossfire. The "weeds" must be pulled.
Non-violent and non-trafficking drug crimes should be decriminalized. I agree.
On the job training programs for unemployed.............. when you help people too much, they forget how to help themselves. A lot of people dont want to help themselves anymore..... the government has passed out so many crutches that people have forgot how to walk on their own.
The issue is not that you post about crimes where the perpetrators are black, it's that you call out their race as if that is what is important, not the crime itself. You are going to need some better evidence to convince me that "almost every single crime by a white person is labelled as a hate crime" because I don't think the stats bear that one out. It seems like your answer to people who are overly focused on race is to overly focus on race yourself.
You're response was there in black and white. You said yes to the question of whether we should imprison (or kill?) all the hoodrats. Yes I chose the label and you responded to it, what's your point? Your response somehow doesn't count because you didn't specifically say "hoodrat" even though that was the specific question you answered? Now you are saying you don't believe that, I get it, but don't fault me for not guessing your response was to some other question rather than the one I asked.
I agree in many ways but I don't think it is so black and white. I think you can have punishment that will discourage crime in the first place and still allow for people to change.
Ok I think I got your position now. Definitely violent crime deserves harsh punishment but I don't feel an armed robbery where no one is physically injured should receive the same punishment as one where someone is injured.
Sure but there are too many gang members who have never been arrested for violent crimes so that alone is not enough.
I don't think helping train someone so they can get a good job is too much of a crutch. The goal is to grease the path to a better life that doesn't require criminal activity. The person will still have to do the work to become successful. Training is an opportunity for success, not a handout that guarantees it without action.
A wise man once said:
"If you have to keep telling people you're not a racist, it might be time to take a look in the mirror"
You're a part of the most racist group in america. Deny it, then go look in the mirror.
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 04-05-2013 at 07:48 PM.
Very disappointed that you're being this simple. I asked myself "is he really about to go this route" when you asked the stupid question that you did.... but i gave you the benefit of the doubt since race baiting would be out of character for you..... but i was wrong... and here we are.
Why wait until someone is injured or killed? does someone need to be injured or killed to prove their was intent of someone to be injured or killed? if i say "i am going to kill you" do i actually have to kill you to prove i was going to do it?
If you pick up a gun and use it in a crime, you had the intention of murdering anyone who opposed you in that process.... whether you actually did it or not. You dems are so hard on law abiding citizens, why does your stomach turn at the idea of being hard on criminals? We are a nation that has embraced gun culture. Our people love guns. Rather than being anti-gun like your political affiliation is so proud to announce.... we need to hold this aspect of our culture sacred. If you abuse the great freedom we enjoy, then you do not deserve to have it. Zero tolerance for gun crimes..... if you use a gun to commit a premeditated criminal act, life sentence.... regardless of the outcome of that crime. If the outcome of that crime takes a life, death penalty.
"we are not a christian nation"
is what your president says when we seek to make gay marriage and abortion staples of our community.
"we are not a christian nation"
is what i say when you suggest we should forgive criminals.
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 04-05-2013 at 08:14 PM.
Hey. You. Take these things off and wake up to reality already.
I'm glad they're doing it. I didn't know a God damn thing about racial prejudice or violence until I moved closer to Atlanta and became the only white guy in my grade at Bryant Elementary school. My first day in class two black kids held my arms behind my back while one punched me in the stomach. I dealt with the situation myself. Not even my parents to this day know what happened.
Who knows what "reality" means to a liberal democrat?Hey. You. Take these things off and wake up to reality already.
Race baiting? All you had to say was "No, we shouldn't incarcerate all the hoodrats but I think we should have stiff penalties for violent offenders." No point in discussing that particular question anymore. I only kept on it this long because you made me out to be unfair because I didn't understand your answer to my question wasn't an answer to my question at all.
Because I am wary of prosecuting thought crimes. I prefer to stick to actions and I don't believe saying "I am going to kill you" is the same as killing someone. Not even close.
I don't know why this rant is directed at me. My stomach does not turn at the thought of harsh penalties for violent criminals but I care more about good practical outcomes than knee-jerk retribution to satiate my outrage. I don't see what dems (I'm registered repub), anti-gun people (I have no problems with AR-15s), or Obama (I didn't vote for him in November) have anything to do with this conversation. How do gay marriage, abortion, and a christian nation fit into this debate, really? Let me know when you are done arguing with some nebulous nemesis group of anti-gun democrats about anything under the sun and ready to argue with me about a single topic. I will be here.
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