We are a third world nation when it comes to healthcare.
I'm paying $75 a month so some company can negotiate a 50 cent pill from $200 to $100, bill me for $30, and tell me how much money I saved.
It's fucking absurd.
/pissedoffrant.
The current state of healthcare in the US is a joke.
We are a third world nation when it comes to healthcare.
I'm paying $75 a month so some company can negotiate a 50 cent pill from $200 to $100, bill me for $30, and tell me how much money I saved.
It's fucking absurd.
/pissedoffrant.
unfortunately it's not a very funny one
What are you talking about? I LOL'd my ass off when the insurance company sent me the billing statement. LolOriginally Posted by bu villain
Anyways, I just found out I'm in for about 20 stacks to get my child out of my wife's vag safe and sound. What normal person has that kind of money laying around?
The government needs to crack down on insurance fraud. That's fraud from the companies not so much the individuals. Obamacare is not the answer.
Tort reform would fix the majority of problems. Ambulance chasers and an ignorant public with an overzealous, undeserved self-entitlement mentality that tries "To get all the money they deserve" (to quote any number of commercials played during Jerry Springer or Maury) has driven the many prices beyond reason because of frivolous lawsuits..
But yea, 20 sounds a tad on the high side. But when it comes to your wife and child what choice do you have... Do you really want to use a doctor that takes 50% off coupons?
While I agree that tort reform needs to happen, and that Obamacare wasn't a magic solution, it was a giant step forward. As of right now, as far as i know, pregnancy is a pre-existing condition.
Why is my child a "condition"? I don't understand. Lol.
Thankfully, because of Obamacare, all of that will be changed come 2014.
I beg to differ on the third world health care. We have the best health care in the world, it just costs way too damn much. If you want to get into why it costs so much we can talk. If you just want cheaper coverage, you will have to go somewhere else. I will say that you pay a hefty price for that cheaper coverage though.
This is just one small piece of it. You also have to add in doctor's malpractice insurance, the govt shorting docs with medicare/medicaid, and the list goes on. Addressing 1 piece of the puzzle wont make any noticable difference, the entire system needs an overhaul.
Before anyone says Obamacare, Obamacare will take everything that is wrong with the current system and make it worse. It will fix none of the reasons for the unsustainable rise in costs. Fraud will rise dramaticly. The cost to docs for taking govt patients will rise dramaticly. Insurance company red tape will rise dramaticly.
I want a doctor that charges $1000 for a $1000 procedure, not $15,000, THEN we can discuss 50% off coupons. Lol.
Kind of addressed this, but to be more specific to your situation, why is a pregnancy any different than a broken leg? I have more sympathy for the guy that cannot get insurance to cover his broken leg than a family that cant get it because of a pregnancy.
Do I really need to answer this?
Ask anyone in the military what they think about the quality of their healthcare. That may change your mind of Obamacare. Ask the Canadians why they come across our borders for our healthcare.
Ive actually talked to quite a few foriegners, most of which were also puzzled as to why the American system is so backwards.
Yes you do. Remember though, I am talking about it in terms of insurance, not emotion.
Our backwards system still results in the best care in the world, especially for advanced diseases or complicated procedures.
A broken leg is not a pre-existing condition?
Sometimes the best...but does that justify being saddled with crippling debt?Our backwards system still results in the best care in the world, especially for advanced diseases or complicated procedures.
An amazing article. I have the mag at home, but Brill did an excellent job on that one.
One that everyone in this thread should read.
The problem for that is
A) the insurance company itself
B) Government involvement which inflates prices (just like housing, just like any other industry govt gets involved in)
C) Frivolous lawsuits
D) Malpractice insurance because of C
Obamacare will solve none of those actually. You are correct that the way they price things is by charging 10 times what it REALLY costs in hopes of negotiating a REAL price they want. AGain, Obamacare doesnt address this problem, and in many forms will make it much much worse.
Competition brings down prices, not Govt involvement.
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I guess I should ahve broken it down some more. Do you think a broken leg is a pre-existing condition? If so, how is it any different than a pregnancy?
Not at all. I have yet to hear either party even spell out what they believe are the causes of the rising prices though. Maybe once they take the time to actually figure out what is causing it, they can start to work on something to fix it. Instead, they massively expanded one of the main drivers of rising costs. And to top it off, they drive up the costs to insurers, while at the same time mandating their profit margin. You talked about how that $200 pill was negotiated to $30, now they will simply negotiate the pill to $100, raise your premiums $50, so they can spend 80% on healthcare. They will be forced to do it also, because of the part of the bill that says a private insurer HAS to accept you, no matter what your conditions are, and they cannot charge you more for those conditions.
By covering people with pre-existing conditions, you are strong arming the insurance company to pay for things normally not covered unless you have insurance. That will drive prices UP, not down. Imagine if Auto Insurance companies had to cover some aspect that drove their costs up, do you think they would lower prices?
Pre-existing conditions sounds great, but it will result in much higher health costs, not lower. Thats just simple economics.
The real fight is going to come when people start realizing they have to have mandatory health care and if they dont they will be fined by the IRS. I dont think people realize that yet. Its coming though
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Brill's bias obvious pretty early on in the article. When you compare individual, uninsured rates which are extremely high, to medicare rates, which are extremely low, you will ALWAYS find a way to complain.
Also, when he mentions the profit, he forgot to mention what MD Anderson's R&D budget was on a yearly basis. In the year ending Aug, 2011, they spent about 135mil on research. They also spent another 106mil on academic support for the student docs.
He does make sure he points out that the head of the hospital makes 1.9mil and has ties to pharmaceutical companies though. He really wants to make a deal about 1.9mil salary? A doc of the quality to run that Cancer Center would EASILY make 5x that in his own practice.
Overall a pretty informative article, but the bias in it was obvious which takes away a lot of credibility.
During his first run for president, Barack Obama made one very specific promise to voters: He would cut health insurance premiums for families by $2,500, and do so in his first term. But it turns out that family premiums have increased by more than $3,000 since Obama's vow, according to the latest annual Kaiser Family Foundation employee health benefits survey.
Now that Obamacare has passed, BCBS of GA has gone from $253/month to cover a family of four to $650/month for the same coverage. That is what it costs with one of the largest employers in the world, who leverages some of the biggest clout when negotiating insurance rates for its employees. How do I know? Because I have the actually costs in front of me. I paid $253 before, now its $650 for the same coverage. I did not have any claims or costs to have caused my rates to more than double.
Forbes: Obamacare Guarantees Higher Health Insurance Premiums -- $3,000+ Higher - Forbes
Bottom line: Obama did not improve the situation by forcing Obamacare on us all. You can try to argue your way out of it, but that is a fact.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
^ I can't "like" that on my mobile app but I do.
Half of the cost you are paying is because of tort issues. Do you have any clue what medical malpractice insurance cost? Do you have any idea how much it cost to run a facility? An ambulance? Instead of bitching about how much it cost why don't you look into it. And with your beloved Obamacare it's going to get a lot more expensive to run any of these, not to mention the bed tax, and some new proposed taxes on EMS providers and the cuts in Medicaid and Medicare.
Try not. Do or Do not.
If Obamacare was giant step forward, then god help us all.
Something strikes me as odd about that number that you're paying for, and you probably need to look into it. I say that because we have BCBS, my premiums didnt go up a dime, nor did the premiums for a family of 4. Anyways, article was great reading (/sarcasm). I love the part where she tried to skirt around the subsidies that affect the majority of the people who's premiums might increase. So I did her one better and got you the ACTUAL CBO analysis of the ACA, sans the demagoguery. When you read something, wouldnt you rather the writer be straight up with you?
CBO | An Analysis of Health Insurance Premiums Under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
Both of you put words in my mouth. Beloved Obamacare? Lol. And dont worry, I know what it costs. Ive looked into it. Doctors, hospitals, EMS providers, researchers all have done a great job in letting the public know exactly what we're paying for. How about this though, why dont you read the law before you bash it, and look at the meat of what it's actually trying to accomplish. I think I said before it wasn't a magic solution to healthcare
My healthcare cost nearly doubled from 2012-2013, pretty sweet since i'm a healthy single male who hasnt been to the doctor in about 5 years.
Serious question Blank, facts are facts, Healthcare costs have risen since Obamacare was passed. I think we can all agree on that at face value, regardless of what you think caused it.
Heres the question:
WHEN WILL THE COSTS START TO GO DOWN? Give me a time frame. Estimate.
I feel like the "healthcare costs will go down" is part and parcel to the "economy is recovering but we arent there yet, it could have been much worse."
5 Years of the same argument gets old and stale. I want results, and we arent seeing good results yet
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Let me state it clearly - coverage did not change. Premiums went up dramatically. Not just for BCBS of GA, but every insurance provider that you are given a choice to select from (quite a few of them). Kaiser was up dramatically as well.
This is for one of the largest employers in the nation, and the world. I also checked with colleagues that work for another one of the largest employers in the nation (and world), and they reported similar increases for their account. Additionally, one of my relatives is on the BCBS account, and told me to expect them to continue to rise once people start moving to the Obamacare national pool (that's what it really is).
Like I said, you can deny it, but these are facts. I have personally seen the premiums for one of the largest and most aggressive negotiated insurance accounts more than double. I've already looked into it, perhaps it's time that you did some real research in on it.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
My health insurance cost went up and they had a big note on the enrollment paperwork that said "Due to changes required by the affordable healthcare act rates will be increasing."
Affordable my ass, my rates doubled.
Am I the only one who's rates didn't increase at all?
I hate that bullshit. They're seizing an opportunity to pass along a cost of doing business that should otherwise be absorbed by them, and then trying to make you feel bad about it.
They did that a few years back when I started at where. The self-proclaimed conservative HR manager used to think it was cool to come down here and pass along his idealogical BS and anti-Obama rhetoric whenever 401k meetings and insurance meetings came up, until I started fact checking him every time he spoke.
He doesn't come down here anymore.
When Single payer/public option becomes an option. With all the socialism rhetoric behind the idea, and all the lobbying against it, probably never.
-Tort reform
-Price fixing
-marijuana legalization
Some steps that could be taken in the meantime
Yes. Mine went up 15% this year from last year. That is just my portion though. My employer pays 83% of the actual premium.
Sent from my S3 using Tapatalk 2.
mine............i dont even wanna talk about it...my company has horrible benefits period
Name one instance where price fixing actually worked.
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From BCBS Website itself
"We believe that premiums will increase as a result of provisions in the reform legislation that will guarantee richer levels of benefits than most consumers who obtain their own insurance purchase today. Insufficient discounts for the young and healthy will encourage many of them to forgo coverage. New fees and taxes mandated by the new law will also likely increase the cost of premiums as they are phased in."
Healthcare Reform Updates, Timelines, FAQs
Single payer is not sustainable, cannot be paid for as healthcare costs 4 times the defense budget alone. Single payer STILL needs tax revenue to be paid for.
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"We believe"?
Sure it is. You choose the government option, you get a tax increase. Cut out the middle man. You're gonna pay it one way or the other.Single payer is not sustainable, cannot be paid for as healthcare costs 4 times the defense budget alone. Single payer STILL needs tax revenue to be paid for.
Competition. "Free markets." Options.
Pretty conservative option, IMO.
But most capitalists don't like competition, the very foundation of capitalism. Especially when they know they would lose big time. Lol.
I think someone said "People love capitalism until they're on the losing side of the competition, then it becomes socialism." Or something to that effect.
Yes, i believe the business knows its cost aspects better than us. Im just saying your own insurance company is saying they see rates increasing, not decreasing, and they tell you why.
Government doesnt have to operate on profit. they cannot offer a service and be competitive with normal market forces.Sure it is. You choose the government option, you get a tax increase. Cut out the middle man. You're gonna pay it one way or the other.
Competition. "Free markets." Options.
Pretty conservative option, IMO.
But most capitalists don't like competition, the very foundation of capitalism. Especially when they know they would lose big time. Lol.
I think someone said "People love capitalism until they're on the losing side of the competition, then it becomes socialism." Or something to that effect.
Single Payer will not work, because someone has to pay for the coverage. Its not just FREE, unless youre assuming doctors hospitals, equipment all of the sudden become FREE and Surgeons are ok making 10$/hr? Or substantially less money then they are really worth.
Single payer looks good on paper, but what happens when you run out of tax increases to pay for it? Everyone suffers, not just the 8% without insurance.
Again, you have not shown any factual numbers to back up your claims. How do you pay for 4 Trillion dollars in healthcare costs via single payer?
US govt took in 2.3 TRILLION last year alone. Theres no way to raise the extra 1.7 trillion without massive tax increases, which would bring down single payer anyway (people would flee the country)
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So you admit that it wouldn't be competition because the government is essentially a non profit? I guess I can't argue with paying less for overhead...
By myself I'm paying $75 a month for insurance with a $2k deductible. So with a public option, I can eitherSingle Payer will not work, because someone has to pay for the coverage. Its not just FREE, unless youre assuming doctors hospitals, equipment all of the sudden become FREE and Surgeons are ok making 10$/hr? Or substantially less money then they are really worth.
a) Continue to give that money to BCBS, who is for profit, so they have a bunch of overhead, advertising costs, Ferraris, beach homes, etc. Your work pays the balance. This is what already happens.
Or
b) bump my taxes up at the end of the year $1000-$1500, rolled in with Medicaid/Medicare to a department of healthcare or something who has less overhead since they are essentially a non profit. Your work pays the balance, like they do already, set a copayment, deductible, make it all progressive like income taxes (a little more progressive than income tax). Withhold for it on your w2 so you never even see the money.
Or
c) Choose neither, pay for healthcare at the point of service.
Or make it universal, everyone (citizens, taxpayers) now pays for insurance b, no copays. This takes the guy at the hospital bumping up non-insured bills to cover non-payers out of the equation. These inflated costs obviously add to the current cost of healthcare, GONE. No more $100 bills for 50 cent Tylenol since everyone is now paid up It MAY BE an investment up front, but a healthier nation will use it less in the long run, and healthier people are more productive, especially if they (lower, middle class, the producers) aren't worried about a $20k bill for a broken arm
The public option gives insurance companies an actual incentive to compete in prices and reigns in windfall profits. There is currently no real market for health insurance. The end user of such a product has effectively zero input. No one wakes up one day and says "I think I'll take a bullet to the abdomen today! or how bout I get cancer next week! lets go hospital and insurance shopping"
Out of all the industrialized nations, those that have universal healthcare spend half as much as the US.US govt took in 2.3 TRILLION last year alone. Theres no way to raise the extra 1.7 trillion without massive tax increases, which would bring down single payer anyway (people would flee the country)
Would you flee the country if you had to spend the same amount, or most likely less than what you ALREADY pay, to a universal healthcare system rather than a private healthcare system like we already have?
If you did flee the country because you thought healthcare taxes were too much of a burden, where would you go? Everyone else already has universal healthcare. Lol.
On a related note, I was relieved to find out that I'm not gonna have to burn down insurance HQs one by one. Turns out, the HIPAA act of 1996 mandated that insurance companies can't place preexisting condition exclusions on pregnancies.
Phew.
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