SOTU- I didnt watch but caught 1 sound byte..............$9/hr minimum wage?

[Vteckidd]

Let's just subsidize hard times so no one has to deal with it. Let's just subsidize failure. Let's pass a law that says you can't layoff anyone. Or fire anyone.

Yeah that'll work greaaat

[Vteckidd]

The guy with a family of 4 living in minimum wage should be OUTRAGED that Obamas plan to help him is to give him $2/hr more instead of creating an environment where he can get a job like he used to have.

[Elbow]

^^^ Correct, you are paid the Fed min. Unless you are a "tipped employee"...In Georgia we have a special exemption for them, if you're a waitress/server you make $2.13/hr. So the next time you stiff a waitress I hope you feel bad about it.


Unless they were a really shitty server.

The law is though to be paid $2.13 an hour, you must make at least minimum wage per hour from tips to cover the difference.

Ask me what kind of crap storm I went through with a BS business on that subject.

[Sinfix_15]

Let's just subsidize hard times so no one has to deal with it. Let's just subsidize failure. Let's pass a law that says you can't layoff anyone. Or fire anyone.

Yeah that'll work greaaat

The hardest thing to be in america is a financially responsible single person. There's no reward for responsible decisions. The more you do to try and get ahead, the more they chip away at you to take care of someone else. I chose not to have kids so that i could have more financial freedom. My money is taken away to support people who cant take care of their 2-3-4-5-6 kids. Having children is a luxury that you should be responsible for. If you cant afford to take care of children, then quit fucking.

I move closer to work to save money. People who dont work get section 8 housing.
I buy a cheaper cell phone service to save money. People who dont work get free cell phones.
I buy cheaper food to save money. People who dont work get food stamps.
I work extra hours to make more money. People who dont work are issued an allowance on a credit card.

Some people go through hard times at their own hand, the same way people can avoid hard times through responsible decisions. At what point did we just become entitled to a good life? My parents said "you can have anything you work for" not "you can have anything"

[Elbow]

Family of 4? Who the fuck is providing for a family of 4 at minimum wage?

If you're making minimum wage probably shouldn't be having 2 kids.

Oh crap my bad, they don't work at all.

[bu villain]

Yes I don't have the real numbers but $9 an hour seems high to me as I run basic numbers. That's all I'm getting at. Also people try to live outside their means.

All I'm saying is we need to run the numbers a little more thoroughly before we jump to conclusions. As you stated before, I agree we should base the minimum wage off a minimum living standard. If people choose to spend their money on non-essentials we can't stop them but that shouldn't factor into the minimum wage discussion anyways.

OK well fuck let's just give everyone who gets laid off free $50k/year jobs right? Why stop at $9 hr.

Let's just give everyone a free house and food and a car. Fuck it let's do it. No more poverty.

The argument you're making is ridiculous with all due respect.

I think it's ridiculous that raising minimum wage to $9/hr is analagous to giving everyone 50k, free food, and a free car. If you say it's cold in your house and I suggest you turn the thermostat up a couple degrees, will you respond with "Well fuck why not turn it up to 150 degrees!"?

The guy with a family of 4 living in minimum wage should be OUTRAGED that Obamas plan to help him is to give him $2/hr more instead of creating an environment where he can get a job like he used to have.

They are not mutually exclusive. Raising the minimum wage a couple dollars does not prevent economic growth in any serious way.

Having children is a luxury that you should be responsible for. If you cant afford to take care of children, then quit fucking.

Why do you assume everyone who has kids and is working a minimum wage job was in that position before they chose to have kids?

Some people go through hard times at their own hand, the same way people can avoid hard times through responsible decisions. At what point did we just become entitled to a good life? My parents said "you can have anything you work for" not "you can have anything"

You aren't entitled to a good life. You aren't even entitled to a minimum wage job. Even if you have a minimum wage job, I don't know if I would call $9/hr "the good life".

[Manny Naber]

We can't do anything about it. So who cares. Money makes life funner and more enjoyable for you and your loved ones. America gives you all the tools to make your own income.

Your life is what you make it. What more stuff? Figure out how to get it

I've been broke, been on food stamps and cash aid...I didn't like it lol.

[BanginJimmy]

If you are a small business turning a profit right now after EVERYONE is paid, and you can't afford to give everyone a raise, you're probably not doing so well as a business anyway OR you're paying yourself too much.

And here it is. If you are a business owner that pays minimum wage, the fed govt should step in and tell you how much you are allowed to make. This sounds like a great idea.
[QUOTE=Vteckidd;39490950]Family of 4? Who the fuck is providing for a family of 4 at minimum wage?

A lot of families lost their jobs in the downturn in the economy. Perhaps you missed the multitudes of articles on people that lost their IT jobs, and ended up working in fast food at minimum wage. They already had kids and lost their homes, so they had no chance but to rent.

Work a second job then. Maybe both parents should be working. Maybe sacrifices need to be made.

All I'm saying is we need to run the numbers a little more thoroughly before we jump to conclusions. As you stated before, I agree we should base the minimum wage off a minimum living standard. If people choose to spend their money on non-essentials we can't stop them but that shouldn't factor into the minimum wage discussion anyways.

Minimum wage needs to be set, at whatever and then tie it to the CPI. If the CPI rises, so does minimum wage. If it drops, so does minimum wage.

Walmart isnt going to be affected by this, we all know that. McDonalds and every other chain restaurant will be though.


Lastly, a couple people mentioned the rise in employers' costs due to minimum wages, they forgot 1 major factor in it. Their taxes will also rise dramaticly. In the example about the 16k rise in wages, the actual number is 17k because of the federal taxes. This does not account for unemployment insurance and other state taxes that are tied to payroll.

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And here it is. If you are a business owner that pays minimum wage, the fed govt should step in and tell you how much you are allowed to make. This sounds like a great idea.

We pay our employees more than min wage. I'd venture to say more small businesses than not pay their employees more than min wage.

Walmart isnt going to be affected by this, we all know that. McDonalds and every other chain restaurant will be though.

LOL.

How do you think McDonalds will be affected by an increased minimum wage?

Lastly, a couple people mentioned the rise in employers' costs due to minimum wages, they forgot 1 major factor in it. Their taxes will also rise dramaticly. In the example about the 16k rise in wages, the actual number is 17k because of the federal taxes. This does not account for unemployment insurance and other state taxes that are tied to payroll.

Employers taxes will rise dramatically? From a $1.75 raise? LOL. and this will affect mcDonalds how?

[Sinfix_15]

Why do you assume everyone who has kids and is working a minimum wage job was in that position before they chose to have kids?

Not my problem. Planning for the future is part of life. If i was going to have children, my financial situation would have to be pretty secure. If you're living week to week on a fixed income, you should consider the risk youre taking when you decide to have kids. Why should my income obtained from responsibility be given to those who are irresponsible. Your view on life is dependent on forcing independent people to be a part of it. Social programs would not exist without people who dont need social programs being forced to participate.

You aren't entitled to a good life. You aren't even entitled to a minimum wage job. Even if you have a minimum wage job, I don't know if I would call $9/hr "the good life".

I dont feel entitled to anything........ other than my own money that i earn. I dont need anything given to me. The only thing i need is less taken away from me. I dont want food stamps, welfare, section 8, social security or an Obama phone. I would rather do without.

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or an Obama phone. I would rather do without.

what is an Obama phone?

[Sinfix_15]

what is an Obama phone?

Do you correct your black friends when they call it an Obama phone too?

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I don't know anyone else who calls it an Obama phone? Except people who don't know what it is.

[Sinfix_15]

I don't know anyone else who calls it an Obama phone? Except people who don't know what it is.

mmmhmmm...... anyways, that detail was irrelevant to the point. I dont want handouts, whatever theyre called.

[David88vert]

Work a second job then. Maybe both parents should be working. Maybe sacrifices need to be made.

I know of several families where both parents were working and making close to $100K - each. They had nice houses, cars, and only moderate debt. Then both parents lost their jobs within a couple of months of each other. Two parents working at McDonalds or similar do not make even close to half the income of even one parent. It's simply not possible for a family to survive. There was no option to sell their houses and downgrade, as no one could get loans to purchase the houses, and they were already underwater.

If you really want to understand the economic policies that allowed all of this to occur, I suggest that you watch "Inside Job" from Sony Pictures. It came out in 2010.

[David88vert]

I don't know anyone else who calls it an Obama phone? Except people who don't know what it is.

It really is called an Obama phone.

The Obama Phone | Free Government Cell Phone Program

[BanginJimmy]

We pay our employees more than min wage. I'd venture to say more small businesses than not pay their employees more than min wage.

Thats great, how exactly does this have something to do with what I posted?

LOL.

How do you think McDonalds will be affected by an increased minimum wage?

You dont think McD's franchisees pay their 16y/o first time employees minimum wage? You dont think that those increased costs are going to be passed onto the consumer?

Employers taxes will rise dramatically? From a $1.75 raise? LOL. and this will affect mcDonalds how?

Their payroll taxes are going to jump 24%. You dont think thats significant?

Lets make 3 assumptions to make this simple.
1. This particular McD's stays open 24/7/364.
2. On average, they have 5 employees on the clock at any 1 time. (probably a low number)
3. They pay all of their employees minimum wage.

That comes out to 43,680 man hours a year.
That equals $316,680 a year in wages and another $19,635 in federal payroll taxes.

At a $9.00 an hour minimum wage that same 43680 man hours will cost $393,120 in wages and another $24,375 in taxes.

This comes out to an extra $81,180 in labor costs for a single restaurant. How does that NOT affect the restaurant?

[BanginJimmy]

If you really want to understand the economic policies that allowed all of this to occur, I suggest that you watch "Inside Job" from Sony Pictures. It came out in 2010.

I know the basics of what happened, but to be honest, the more intricate pieces are beyond my education. If that movie explains them better I will take a look at it.

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It really is called an Obama phone.

The Obama Phone | Free Government Cell Phone Program

Like I said, only people who don't know what it is call it an Obama phone. LOL.

[David88vert]

I know the basics of what happened, but to be honest, the more intricate pieces are beyond my education. If that movie explains them better I will take a look at it.

Its worth watching.

[.blank cd]

Thats great, how exactly does this have something to do with what I posted?

LOL.



You dont think McD's franchisees pay their 16y/o first time employees minimum wage? You dont think that those increased costs are going to be passed onto the consumer?




Their payroll taxes are going to jump 24%. You dont think thats significant?

Lets make 3 assumptions to make this simple.
1. This particular McD's stays open 24/7/364.
2. On average, they have 5 employees on the clock at any 1 time. (probably a low number)
3. They pay all of their employees minimum wage.

That comes out to 43,680 man hours a year.
That equals $316,680 a year in wages and another $19,635 in federal payroll taxes.

At a $9.00 an hour minimum wage that same 43680 man hours will cost $393,120 in wages and another $24,375 in taxes.

This comes out to an extra $81,180 in labor costs for a single restaurant. How does that NOT affect the restaurant?

Ummm, you do know that..

1. The average McDonalds franchise yearly profit (this is money after everyone is paid) Is around 2-3 million dollars.

2. Wages are tax deductible to the franchise

3. McDonalds is a multi billion dollar corporation

So how is only $86k in tax deductible wages and $5k in employee-paid payroll taxes significant to a multi-million dollar individual franchise again? Lol.

[David88vert]

Like I said, only people who don't know what it is call it an Obama phone. LOL.

If you get it through those people, they call it an Obama phone. No, it is not from the government.

The reality is that the USF provides the financial support for the Lifeline plan for low income families - and has since 1984. The FCC updated the plan in January 2012. No, it isn't from tax revenue.

[Sinfix_15]

Like I said, only people who don't know what it is call it an Obama phone. LOL.

urrrrrbody know minority got obama phone

[BanginJimmy]

Ummm, you do know that..

1. The average McDonalds franchise yearly profit (this is money after everyone is paid) Is around 2-3 million dollars.

So the people that took all the risks should just eat the cost? Why should they eat the costs and not the employees?

2. Wages are tax deductible to the franchise

Again, who cares what is and isnt tax deductible?

3. McDonalds is a multi billion dollar corporation

There earnt many franchisees that are making a billion a year. McD's Corporation doesnt own a single restaurant, just the rights.

So how is only $86k in tax deductible wages and $5k in employee-paid payroll taxes significant to a multi-million dollar individual franchise again? Lol.

employee paid? No, the extra 5k would be the employer side of it. You might want to do a little research and see exactly what payroll taxes are, and how they are paid.


The real question is, why do you think the owners should be paying more for the least important and most easily replaced members of the staff?

[bu villain]

Minimum wage needs to be set, at whatever and then tie it to the CPI. If the CPI rises, so does minimum wage. If it drops, so does minimum wage.

An absolutely reasonable suggestion. This would also prevent congress from having to debate the issue every few years. The only small issue is that CPI is not always the most reliable indicator but nothing is perfect.

Not my problem. Planning for the future is part of life. If i was going to have children, my financial situation would have to be pretty secure. If you're living week to week on a fixed income, you should consider the risk youre taking when you decide to have kids. Why should my income obtained from responsibility be given to those who are irresponsible. Your view on life is dependent on forcing independent people to be a part of it. Social programs would not exist without people who dont need social programs being forced to participate.

It's your problem because no matter how much you would like to be, you are not independent of society as a whole. If you leave the least capable people to fend for themselves, their children are likely to continue the poverty cycle and the welfare system will only grow. If you truly want to get rid of the welfare system, you should be advocating for early childhood education and all sorts of other social programs to give poor kids the best chance at becoming a net tax payer.

[Vteckidd]

I know of several families where both parents were working and making close to $100K - each. They had nice houses, cars, and only moderate debt. Then both parents lost their jobs within a couple of months of each other. Two parents working at McDonalds or similar do not make even close to half the income of even one parent. It's simply not possible for a family to survive. There was no option to sell their houses and downgrade, as no one could get loans to purchase the houses, and they were already underwater.

If you really want to understand the economic policies that allowed all of this to occur, I suggest that you watch "Inside Job" from Sony Pictures. It came out in 2010.

Thats life man, plain and simple. Dont take a mortgage you dont understand and cant payback, people lose jobs all the time. Ive been laid off, had friends laid off, lost money, made money, its life.

YOu dont subsidize bad times to keep people from pain. Pain breeds innovation, determination, drive, work ethic, etc.

Its a slippery slope to say "we will just pay everyone $9 an hour to solve the economic problem".

[Sinfix_15]

It's your problem because no matter how much you would like to be, you are not independent of society as a whole. If you leave the least capable people to fend for themselves, their children are likely to continue the poverty cycle and the welfare system will only grow. If you truly want to get rid of the welfare system, you should be advocating for early childhood education and all sorts of other social programs to give poor kids the best chance at becoming a net tax payer.

If you dont let people fend for themselves, they never learn how to fend for themselves. We will never get rid of the welfare system...... it's a lifestyle choice for many.

[On_Her_Face]

Ummm, you do know that..

1. The average McDonalds franchise yearly profit (this is money after everyone is paid) Is around 2-3 million dollars.

2. Wages are tax deductible to the franchise

3. McDonalds is a multi billion dollar corporation

So how is only $86k in tax deductible wages and $5k in employee-paid payroll taxes significant to a multi-million dollar individual franchise again? Lol.

BangingJimmy is on the right track however this is only part of the supply chain. This does not factor in anybody in the upstream. Such as people Loading/Unloading in the McD's regional DC's, above that the warehouses, and one step above that in the Factories. All of this does trickle down to the franchise and raises cost or lowers margin. I don't have all the right figures on their supply chain however it will make a noticeable difference to a company worth it's salt. Every company is trying to cut cost every year (a lot of goals are 5%) and if they can not make cuts in materials, transportation, buildings, etc then guess who gets cut first?

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BangingJimmy is on the right track however this is only part of the supply chain. This does not factor in anybody in the upstream. Such as people Loading/Unloading in the McD's regional DC's, above that the warehouses, and one step above that in the Factories. All of this does trickle down to the franchise and raises cost or lowers margin. I don't have all the right figures on their supply chain however it will make a noticeable difference to a company worth it's salt. Every company is trying to cut cost every year (a lot of goals are 5%) and if they can not make cuts in materials, transportation, buildings, etc then guess who gets cut first?

Highly doubt anyone in the supply chain is making minimum wage. From experience with the supply chain, I know these people are making $30-80k.

[On_Her_Face]

Highly doubt anyone in the supply chain is making minimum wage. From experience with the supply chain, I know these people are making $30-80k.

In the supply chains I have worked there are people making close to minimum wage discussed in this thread. For example janitorial, pickers, machine workers, or assemblers. I know people in supply chain make less than the said $9 minimum. I have had internships in warehouses (as you say you have) and I will be working in Logistics/SCM making the range you commented. I was not referring to front line managers or higher nor dedicated truck drivers. There are people that will raise these costs due to an increase in minimum wage to $9 maybe not in the fields you have experienced. There is no way around saying that this won't raise costs.

The supply chain is anybody that provides value added...
Example:
Janitorial = making sure warehouse is safe, clean, and less products will be messed up as a result
Pickers = People who get orders together, unskilled labor.



Note to self, don't post in class.

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In the supply chains I have worked there are people making close to minimum wage discussed in this thread. For example janitorial, pickers, machine workers, or assemblers. I know people in supply chain make less than the said $9 minimum. I have had internships in warehouses (as you say you have) and I will be working in Logistics/SCM making the range you commented. I was not referring to front line managers or higher nor dedicated truck drivers. There are people that will raise these costs due to an increase in minimum wage to $9 maybe not in the fields you have experienced. There is no way around saying that this won't raise costs.

The supply chain is anybody that provides value added...
Example:
Janitorial = making sure warehouse is safe, clean, and less products will be messed up as a result
Pickers = People who get orders together, unskilled labor.

Question. What do you think happens to the economy when people who aren't making minimum wage (the vast majority of the working population) get performance-based/cost of living raises?

[On_Her_Face]

Question. What do you think happens to the economy when people who aren't making minimum wage (the vast majority of the working population) get performance-based/cost of living raises?

Then they are creating more value to the said company, so they are worth more i.e. higher pay. You don't set the bar high to begin with. You should start at the minimum wage, which is the minimum to live on. Like I have stated nobody lives in their means. Do I know exactly what the bottom bar should be set at? No. I do not believe that it is $9.

Also I have worked at places where if your hourly pay gets too high, guess what the company does? They let you go because you are not worth the amount of pay. They bring in new people (which does incur training costs) that are cheaper.

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Then they are creating more value to the said company, so they are worth more i.e. higher pay.

Someone getting a cost of living increase is worth more to the company, how? Do the lower people on the totem pole not deserve a cost of living increase?

You don't set the bar high to begin with. You should start at the minimum wage, which is the minimum to live on. Like I have stated nobody lives in their means. Do I know exactly what the bottom bar should be set at? No. I do not believe that it is $9.

You think, for a company that brings in 100s of millions in profits, Paying your primary workforce $7/hr is too high of a bar, and that a $2 increase will break the threshold?

Could you find a case where a company went belly-up, when the minimum wage went from $5 to $7?

Maybe even a company whose seen a consistent net profit decrease since minimum wage went up to $7 until now, that is a direct result of the increased minimum wage?

The point I'm trying to make here is that, despite how you feel, data is showing that increasing the minimum wage isn't as big of a drag on the economy or a company as you might think it is.

[bu villain]

If you dont let people fend for themselves, they never learn how to fend for themselves. We will never get rid of the welfare system...... it's a lifestyle choice for many.

You make a very valid point but don't let your one good argument overshadow all the good arguments on the other side.

[On_Her_Face]

Someone getting a cost of living increase is worth more to the company, how? Do the lower people on the totem pole not deserve a cost of living increase?

You think, for a company that brings in 100s of millions in profits, Paying your primary workforce $7/hr is too high of a bar, and that a $2 increase will break the threshold?

Could you find a case where a company went belly-up, when the minimum wage went from $5 to $7?

Maybe even a company whose seen a consistent net profit decrease since minimum wage went up to $7 until now, that is a direct result of the increased minimum wage?

The point I'm trying to make here is that, despite how you feel, data is showing that increasing the minimum wage isn't as big of a drag on the economy or a company as you might think it is.

First you are skating around that the costs will go up. Second I haven't stated that this would make a company go "belly up". Third I think $9 is too high for minimum wage. People can live cheaper than this. If they have children or this or that. That is their own fault. Make good financial decisions. This includes family and luxuries.

You're questions are very general. Bottom line don't set minimum wage too high. Companies don't like raising cost and they will either cut employees, qualities, or raise their prices. There is no need for this when/if the minimum doesn't need to be raised. Note I never said any of this would make it the end of the world.

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First you are skating around that the costs will go up.

Um, how is that?

Third I think $9 is too high for minimum wage. People can live cheaper than this. If they have children or this or that. That is their own fault. Make good financial decisions. This includes family and luxuries.

Youre not making a good case as to why min wage shouldn't go up, but you are making a pretty good case for why we should look into capping CEO salaries. Lol.

You're questions are very general.

Seems pretty specific to me.

Bottom line don't set minimum wage too high.

Still waiting on your case on why $9 is too high. I still haven't seen the data that supports that raising it to $9 will cause inflation. Is this what you feel would happen or is this something that has been tested with proven results? Last time I checked, raising it to $7 didn't cause inflation, so why is $9 the tipping point?

[On_Her_Face]

Um, how is that?

Youre not making a good case as to why min wage shouldn't go up, but you are making a pretty good case for why we should look into capping CEO salaries. Lol.

Seems pretty specific to me.

Still waiting on your case on why $9 is too high. I still haven't seen the data that supports that raising it to $9 will cause inflation. Is this what you feel would happen or is this something that has been tested with proven results? Last time I checked, raising it to $7 didn't cause inflation, so why is $9 the tipping point?

Just a side note in many cases it is not the CEO's salary that is the big problem is the bonus that they receive. If you read my post(s) I clearly state I feel it should not be $9. I have even stated if the government backs it up with proof then so be it. I'll clarify I feel that people can live cheaper than $9 per hour. I also haven't seen any data from you that says it should be $9. We are essentially on the same boat with no paddle. Raising minimum wage raises cost. I didn't mention inflation in one of my posts if I recall.

To sum it up, I feel $9 is too high for minimum. If that's the least amount of money that a person can live on then it is what it is. Raising minimum wage raises cost. Pretty clear, please don't put words in my mouth.

[BanginJimmy]

Youre not making a good case as to why min wage shouldn't go up, but you are making a pretty good case for why we should look into capping CEO salaries. Lol.

So you believe in an scaled back form of economic fascism? You think the govt should have input the contract negotiations between a private individual and a business?


BTW, people a whole lot smarter and more imaginative will simply find a way around a cap in salary. Whether it be an unregulated expense account, stock, property, company paid vacations. Whatever you can think of.


Any chance you know what the CEO of a multinational corporation that does nearly 500B a year in sales should be paid?

[Vteckidd]

Someone getting a cost of living increase is worth more to the company, how? Do the lower people on the totem pole not deserve a cost of living increase?

You think, for a company that brings in 100s of millions in profits, Paying your primary workforce $7/hr is too high of a bar, and that a $2 increase will break the threshold?

Could you find a case where a company went belly-up, when the minimum wage went from $5 to $7?

Maybe even a company whose seen a consistent net profit decrease since minimum wage went up to $7 until now, that is a direct result of the increased minimum wage?

The point I'm trying to make here is that, despite how you feel, data is showing that increasing the minimum wage isn't as big of a drag on the economy or a company as you might think it is.

Devils advocate

So you are admitting that very very few people are on minimum wage anyway, so the $2 a raise is not much. So, defacto, President Obama is basically pandering to a speck of people that dont really matter or mean much in the overall economy.

Its a political talking point, that solves pretty much nothing that the economy is facing right now.

Am i right?

[Vteckidd]

Still waiting on your case on why $9 is too high. I still haven't seen the data that supports that raising it to $9 will cause inflation. Is this what you feel would happen or is this something that has been tested with proven results? Last time I checked, raising it to $7 didn't cause inflation, so why is $9 the tipping point?

Its a ripple effect. It would hurt most small profit high volume businesses like mcdonalds or fast food places, or service jobs like janitorial services, lifeguarding, etc. Businesses that only operate on 8-15% margins it would severely hurt them.

The other businesses will be hurt when , as stated before, your $10/hr employee now, sees their $7/hr employee get a $2/hr raise because.................so we should expext everyone elses salary to increase proportionally =INFLATION.

If minimum wage was $50k a year, do you think milk would cost $4/gallon? buying power is congruent to dollar valuation. Minimum wage should go up because the market demands it to go up, not because Obama says it should.

businesses are SMARTER than government.