Another shooting in the ATL

[.blank cd]

YOU MEAN ALL BLACK PEOPLE IN THE U.S. AREN'T LIKE THE ONES I GREW UP AROUND???

[BanginJimmy]

Nice sweeping generalization. I doubt you spend much time with anyone in the black community because if you did, you would realize a significant number of them hate it when they see black people doing stupid shit just like anyone does when someone does something stupid that reflects poorly on them. You really think the black community wishes there were more hoodrats on TV getting tased by security guards, getting in fights on buses, etc?

Its not a matter of race and anyone saying differently is an idiot. What it is is the culture of violence and rejection of education and responsibility within the black community. A culture thats been glorified by the youth and excused, if not encouraged, by the adults for 50 years.

You have community leaders blaming white people for the poor quality and poverty in most primarily black neighborhoods. The leaders that come out and speak about the run away fathers and teen pregnancy are ignored or even labeled Uncle Toms because they put the blame on those that deserve it. We have a welfare systems in this country that makes it easier and more profitable to live on handouts than it is to try to move up in society.


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[Elbow]

Nice sweeping generalization. I doubt you spend much time with anyone in the black community because if you did, you would realize a significant number of them hate it when they see black people doing stupid shit just like anyone does when someone does something stupid that reflects poorly on them. You really think the black community wishes there were more hoodrats on TV getting tased by security guards, getting in fights on buses, etc?

This.

[Sinfix_15]

Nice sweeping generalization. I doubt you spend much time with anyone in the black community because if you did, you would realize a significant number of them hate it when they see black people doing stupid shit just like anyone does when someone does something stupid that reflects poorly on them. You really think the black community wishes there were more hoodrats on TV getting tased by security guards, getting in fights on buses, etc?

I spend all of my time with people in the black community. I live in a predominantly black area. Most of my friends and co-workers are black. I recognize what you see, but where we disagree is the "significant" number. I have two older black friends and they are two of the smartest people i know. You're right that they do not like black people doing stupid things that reflects poorly on them, but they are very much in the minority. I also witness them being attacked by other black people. One of them is retired military and openly a republican. Black people are not allowed to be republicans....... if you're black and claim to be a republican, you'd be better off putting on a clan hood. Even though this guy is respectful, intelligent, highly literate and speaks his beliefs clearly, all the other black people attack him.

What i witness in the black community is a pack mentality. "you vs the world". It's evident in almost every aspect of black culture. You only want what's good for you, collectively. It's as if the america is a football team.... and black people are it's Terrell Owens.

Also, it runs deeper than just the black community. Black leaders and celebrities who have a platform to speak to the black community, do very little to change the problems. Black people are made to believe that they are nothing more than victims of circumstance. Everything happening around them if of no fault of their own.

[Sinfix_15]

This. is a sweeping generalization used in attempt to condemn Sin of a sweeping generalization and is most certainly made up of opinions and not facts.

fixed.

[bu villain]

We are getting off on a complete tangent to the original subject but since the gun debate is getting tiring, I guess let's continue this:

Its not a matter of race and anyone saying differently is an idiot. What it is is the culture of violence and rejection of education and responsibility within the black community. A culture thats been glorified by the youth and excused, if not encouraged, by the adults for 50 years.

Consider for a moment the source of this mentality. In the past 40 years or so, if you grew up as a poor black kid, who were the most affluent people in your community? Many of them were drug dealers, gangsters, or pimps. It's not illogical for a young kid or even adults to see the reality around them and say, those are ways to get out of poverty. That's why it was so important for many that a (half) black man became president. It's a huge rebuttal to young kids who think their best option is to slang or bang.

You have community leaders blaming white people for the poor quality and poverty in most primarily black neighborhoods. The leaders that come out and speak about the run away fathers and teen pregnancy are ignored or even labeled Uncle Toms because they put the blame on those that deserve it.

While there is no doubt there is some of that going on, it's not near universal. The fact is generational racism from whites over the majority of our country's history did have a major affect on the black community as a whole. There are a number of well educated black leaders who will say that and in the next sentence speak out about the breakdown of family. They are for the most part very well respected in the black community. Cornell West would be an example.

We have a welfare systems in this country that makes it easier and more profitable to live on handouts than it is to try to move up in society.

Easier maybe but not more profitable. Welfare reform is a whole other topic so I don't want to get into that now.

I spend all of my time with people in the black community........ if you're black and claim to be a republican, you'd be better off putting on a clan hood. Even though this guy is respectful, intelligent, highly literate and speaks his beliefs clearly, all the other black people attack him

It wouldn't be hard to find many places in GA and accross the country where a white intelligent, well-spoken democrat would get a similar response from the white residents.

What i witness in the black community is a pack mentality. "you vs the world". It's evident in almost every aspect of black culture. You only want what's good for you, collectively. It's as if the america is a football team.... and black people are it's Terrell Owens.

For most of the black community's modern history in this country, it was them vs the world. As someone who often cites Hitler's Europe nearly a century ago as a reason for current policy, I think you can understand that history plays an important role in people's mentalities. It plays an even stronger role when it affected your family directly including people who are still alive.

Also, it runs deeper than just the black community. Black leaders and celebrities who have a platform to speak to the black community, do very little to change the problems. Black people are made to believe that they are nothing more than victims of circumstance. Everything happening around them if of no fault of their own.

I won't argue that many in the spotlight don't do much to help but I don't think that is a characteristic unique to the black community. As far as being victims to circumstance, black people have been victimized for a long time. That can be true without being an excuse to not make the best of what you got. Wallowing in being a victim is certainly not helpful but neither is ignoring the very real factors that race affects.

I just ask that people recognize that societies and culture have a momentum and a memory. Berating people for it is not an effective path to change.

[BanginJimmy]

Consider for a moment the source of this mentality. In the past 40 years or so, if you grew up as a poor black kid, who were the most affluent people in your community? Many of them were drug dealers, gangsters, or pimps. It's not illogical for a young kid or even adults to see the reality around them and say, those are ways to get out of poverty. That's why it was so important for many that a (half) black man became president. It's a huge rebuttal to young kids who think their best option is to slang or bang.

This is where the rejection of education shows. Why get an educaton when you can just gang bang and sell drugs?

While there is no doubt there is some of that going on, it's not near universal. The fact is generational racism from whites over the majority of our country's history did have a major affect on the black community as a whole. There are a number of well educated black leaders who will say that and in the next sentence speak out about the breakdown of family. They are for the most part very well respected in the black community. Cornell West would be an example.

20 years ago this would have been viable reasoning. Adults well into their 40's today have never known institutionalized racism. I searched for it quickly and couldnt find the article again, but it showed pretty clearly that the violence, rejection of education, and pretty much every other ill of the black community is an American thing, race is not a factor. The children of minorities, including blacks, that come from ANYWHERE else in the world, reach the middle class at a rate that FAR outpaces those that were born here and lived poor.

Not the article I was looking for, but it does show what I was saying.
Study: First generation immigrant children do better in school than US-born kids

[Sinfix_15]

We are getting off on a complete tangent to the original subject but since the gun debate is getting tiring, I guess let's continue this:



Consider for a moment the source of this mentality. In the past 40 years or so, if you grew up as a poor black kid, who were the most affluent people in your community? Many of them were drug dealers, gangsters, or pimps. It's not illogical for a young kid or even adults to see the reality around them and say, those are ways to get out of poverty. That's why it was so important for many that a (half) black man became president. It's a huge rebuttal to young kids who think their best option is to slang or bang.



While there is no doubt there is some of that going on, it's not near universal. The fact is generational racism from whites over the majority of our country's history did have a major affect on the black community as a whole. There are a number of well educated black leaders who will say that and in the next sentence speak out about the breakdown of family. They are for the most part very well respected in the black community. Cornell West would be an example.



Easier maybe but not more profitable. Welfare reform is a whole other topic so I don't want to get into that now.



It wouldn't be hard to find many places in GA and accross the country where a white intelligent, well-spoken democrat would get a similar response from the white residents.



For most of the black community's modern history in this country, it was them vs the world. As someone who often cites Hitler's Europe nearly a century ago as a reason for current policy, I think you can understand that history plays an important role in people's mentalities. It plays an even stronger role when it affected your family directly including people who are still alive.



I won't argue that many in the spotlight don't do much to help but I don't think that is a characteristic unique to the black community. As far as being victims to circumstance, black people have been victimized for a long time. That can be true without being an excuse to not make the best of what you got. Wallowing in being a victim is certainly not helpful but neither is ignoring the very real factors that race affects.

I just ask that people recognize that societies and culture have a momentum and a memory. Berating people for it is not an effective path to change.

I understand everything you said and i agree with just about all of it........ but we've got to have a cut off point. At some point we just have to say to the black community "look.... you've got all the apology you're gonna get.... suck it up"

I feel like for every race in the US, the expectations are lowest for black people. How long do they deserve the handicap? How long do we apologize for the past?

You may differ in your opinion....... but in my opinion, that time has long passed.....

[Elbow]

Half the problem is people today still bring up slavery as a reason that life is hard and why there should be an apology. lol

[bu villain]

This is where the rejection of education shows. Why get an educaton when you can just gang bang and sell drugs?

Yes but my point is that it is actually logical to reject education in favor of selling drugs when viewed through a ghetto youth perspective. So any solution has to start from there.

20 years ago this would have been viable reasoning. Adults well into their 40's today have never known institutionalized racism. I searched for it quickly and couldnt find the article again, but it showed pretty clearly that the violence, rejection of education, and pretty much every other ill of the black community is an American thing, race is not a factor. The children of minorities, including blacks, that come from ANYWHERE else in the world, reach the middle class at a rate that FAR outpaces those that were born here and lived poor.

Even if there was 0 racism today, that doesn't mean there are no residual effects. You say that violence and rejection or education are the cause of the ills and I agree. What I am saying is that these causes have roots in the institutionalized racism that existed not all that long ago. That is one of the reasons immigrants do better here. Their cultural history is different. Also, the immigrants comparison is not really a fair one since most of them come here specifically for work and education. That is like being surprised that so many people at the car meet are car enthusiasts. It's a self selecting population.

[bu villain]

I understand everything you said and i agree with just about all of it........ but we've got to have a cut off point. At some point we just have to say to the black community "look.... you've got all the apology you're gonna get.... suck it up"

I feel like for every race in the US, the expectations are lowest for black people. How long do they deserve the handicap? How long do we apologize for the past?

You may differ in your opinion....... but in my opinion, that time has long passed.....

I don't think they are looking for an apology. Who would give it anyway? There is no spokesperson for former slave owners. How about the government? That would be interesting to see Obama apologize for slavery and institutional racism. What is needed is simply recognition that the wrong done in the past still has a tangible effect today. Beyond that, I would also say it is not up to you or me to tell someone how they should feel about history. I don't think you will change a single mind by saying "suck it up".