Defend your right to own a car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David88vert

This part is true. Feinstein has always been against the 2nd Amendment.

Here's the interesting part today on Feinstein's bill:
Does Feinstein's 'Assault Weapon' Ban Cover All Semiautomatic Rifles? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

---

Would you expect anything less????

I said this from day one...... their specific regulations are not an accident. They are well thought out and cleverly worded with the purpose of banning as many guns as possible. Assault rifles are only being focused because theyre the "easiest sell" so to speak. If someone said lets ban handguns there would be an even larger outcry than there is now and their agenda would be dead in the water instantly. Theyre hiding behind an assault weapons ban and will sneak in as much regulation as they can...... until the time comes to seek more.

Their intention is obvious..... that's why ANYTHING they try to do must be opposed.

Ron Paul says members of both parties are trying to “gut our Second Amendment freedoms”


Id feel so much better about our country right now if Ron Paul was our president.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

I comment more so based on what is to come. If you and the others honestly think i'm worried for no reason, well.... we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Obama is anti-gun. Him not standing up for the 2nd amendment while his democratic friends are seeking to burn it is good enough for me to count him guilty by association. As far as me commenting specifically on the exec orders that have happened so far...

---

My problem is that you are painting with such a broad brush. People are not exclusively pro-gun or anti-gun. There are many shades of grey. I agree Obama is against automatic weapons and high capacity magazines but not against all guns. Action speaks louder than words (or theories) and as blank.cd pointed out, he has passed pro-gun bills. Furthermore, not all democrats are like Feinstein and I have seen Obama clearly support the second amendment on multiple occassions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

I do not like the connection with healthcare and gun control.

---

Even the NRA will tell you that it is important to ensure mentally disturbed people do not get access to guns so how can you divorce healthcare and gun control?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

Obama doesnt come through the front door with his policies, he sneaks in the back. You cant take him at face value, you have to dig for the hidden gems and expect surprises.

---

I don't see how the gun control legislation under discussion in congress is sneaking through the back door. This is the appropriate political process. His executive orders such as "appoint an ATF director" and "allow more studies" do not strike me as anything inappropriate either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

why are you guys acting like its some big secret that liberals are anti-gun?

---

Are all democrats liberals? Does supporting any regulation of guns whatsoever make someone anti-gun? It's these overgeneralizations and us/them rhetoric that gets you push back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bu villain

My problem is that you are painting with such a broad brush. People are not exclusively pro-gun or anti-gun. There are many shades of grey. I agree Obama is against automatic weapons and high capacity magazines but not against all guns. Action speaks louder than words (or theories) and as blank.cd pointed out, he has passed pro-gun bills. Furthermore, not all democrats are like Feinstein and I have seen Obama clearly support the second amendment on multiple occassions.



Even the NRA will tell you that it is important to ensure mentally disturbed people do not get access to guns so how can you divorce healthcare and gun control?



I don't see how the gun control legislation under discussion in congress is sneaking through the back door. This is the appropriate political process. His executive orders such as "appoint an ATF director" and "allow more studies" do not strike me as anything inappropriate either.



Are all democrats liberals? Does supporting any regulation of guns whatsoever make someone anti-gun? It's these overgeneralizations and us/them rhetoric that gets you push back.

---

If you're stupid enough to be talked into supporting an assault weapons ban, i put you in the anti-gun group. I dont care if you support shotguns.. handguns.. or crossbows.... if you're willing to give in to an assault weapon ban, then you are part of the problem. Rifles kill less people a year than table saws.... it is the absolute LEAST used gun in criminal activity. So if you're willing to swallow that stat and still be ok with a ban, you are part of the problem. If you support AR and clip bans, you're anti-gun.

UN arms treaty was sneaking it in the back door. They put together these big massive bills and they bury little tidbits inside of it so that you wont notice. It's always something politely packaged like "free candy for children bill" so you'll agree with it, but then on page 867 it gets into the details they actually wanted to slip through. Just like the gun control debate.... the only reason ARs are targeted is because it's agreeable..... but theyre going to get as many guns as they can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

UN arms treaty was sneaking it in the back door. They put together these big massive bills and they bury little tidbits inside of it so that you wont notice. It's always something politely packaged like "free candy for children bill" so you'll agree with it, but then on page 867 it gets into the details they actually wanted to slip through. Just like the gun control debate.... the only reason ARs are targeted is because it's agreeable..... but theyre going to get as many guns as they can.

---

But how is it sneaking in the back door when it's widespread public knowledge what they're trying to do?

It's like a burglar posting a neighborhood newsletter saying "I'm going to break in the Smiths home at precisely 2:13AM February 9th 2013, gonna take their TVs and make a PB&J before I leave. Thank you"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

But how is it sneaking in the back door when it's widespread public knowledge what they're trying to do?

It's like a burglar posting a neighborhood newsletter saying "I'm going to break in the Smiths home at precisely 2:13AM February 9th 2013, gonna take their TVs and make a PB&J before I leave. Thank you"

---

I just answered this question in the post that made you ask this question.

let me attempt to explain it again...............

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Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

If you're stupid enough to be talked into supporting an assault weapons ban, i put you in the anti-gun group.

---

Wow, so now being stupid is equivalent to being anti-gun even if you otherwise support many kinds of guns. I don't think it's possible to have a rational debate with you. I completely agree with you that there is no point to banning assault weapons and yet we still can't avoid a debate because you only see the world in black and white terms. Your tone and perspective don't make you look like a principled debater cutting through the bullshit, it makes you look fanatical and simple minded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

UN arms treaty was sneaking it in the back door.

---

How has any UN treaty affected your ability to own guns? Specifically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bu villain

Wow, so now being stupid is equivalent to being anti-gun even if you otherwise support many kinds of guns. I don't think it's possible to have a rational debate with you. I completely agree with you that there is no point to banning assault weapons and yet we still can't avoid a debate because you only see the world in black and white terms. Your tone and perspective don't make you look like a principled debater cutting through the bullshit, it makes you look fanatical and simple minded.



How has any UN treaty affected your ability to own guns? Specifically.

---

When i say people are "stupid" for being ok with an AR ban, i say it in terms of them not realizing that it's a first step and that it serves no purpose. If you're just a guy who says "hey, i dont see why anyone needs an AR, i dont want one... yada yada" that's your opinion. My viewpoint is, an attack on anyone's freedom is an attack on everyone's freedom. I feel most people are guilty of thinking "they want to ban something i didnt care to own, i dont care then"....

And yes, that's stupid of them.



I dont want the UN having anything to do with my healthcare or liberties as an american citizen. Why do we need to globalize this issue when the rest of the world doesnt share our belief system? where do you think this path leads?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

When i say people are "stupid" for being ok with an AR ban, i say it in terms of them not realizing that it's a first step and that it serves no purpose. If you're just a guy who says "hey, i dont see why anyone needs an AR, i dont want one... yada yada" that's your opinion. My viewpoint is, an attack on anyone's freedom is an attack on everyone's freedom. I feel most people are guilty of thinking "they want to ban something i didnt care to own, i dont care then"....

And yes, that's stupid of them.

---

My issue was more with the description of anyone who is for ANY gun regulation being called anti-gun. I still wouldn't call those for such a ban stupid even though I definitely disagree that it will have an impact on gun violence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

I dont want the UN having anything to do with my healthcare or liberties as an american citizen. Why do we need to globalize this issue when the rest of the world doesnt share our belief system? where do you think this path leads?

---

I honestly don't think the UN is affecting your healthcare or liberties in a significant way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bu villain

My issue was more with the description of anyone who is for ANY gun regulation being called anti-gun. I still wouldn't call those for such a ban stupid even though I definitely disagree that it will have an impact on gun violence.



I honestly don't think the UN is affecting your healthcare or liberties in a significant way.

---

An attack on anyone's freedom is an attack on everyone's freedom. Assault rifles are not a problem in america, theyre used in crime significantly less than any other weapon. They are being targeted strictly on perception by politicians who are inevitably seeking full gun control.


Explain the purpose of the UN connection then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

An attack on anyone's freedom is an attack on everyone's freedom. Assault rifles are not a problem in america, theyre used in crime significantly less than any other weapon. They are being targeted strictly on perception by politicians who are inevitably seeking full gun control.

---

I already stated I agree with you that assault rifles are not a major problem so I'm not sure what response you are looking for here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

Explain the purpose of the UN connection then.

---

First you will have to show me the UN treaty you are talking about and then explain to me how it is infringing your rights. My comment was based on the general fact that UN treaties do not supercede the laws passed by our congress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3-GwqLgnIWI

Anyone care to explain this to me? Or care to explain the connection between healthcare and guncontrol or the UN connection to both. Why do we need the UN's input on american laws?

Why was the presenter of that video, LaPierre, for gun control just a few years ago? Now he's against it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

Why was the presenter of that video, LaPierre, for gun control just a few years ago? Now he's against it?

---

No. He said schools should be gun free zones with the exception of trained personnel and security. But your liberal pals read that like this....

Schools should be gun free zones with the exception of trained personnel and security

Seriously..... can one of you Obama supports please explain this to me. Explain the connection and need of the UN in our healthcare and gun control. Explain to me any benefit that i as an american citizen can receive from this. So if the UN thinks the united states should be gun free, then what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

No. He said schools should be gun free zones with the exception of trained personnel and security. But your liberal pals read that like this....

Schools should be gun free zones with the exception of trained personnel and security

---

Um, a few years ago he was for full on gun control. But "conservatives" don't remember that.

So why was the leader of the gun sales lobby for full on gun control before, and starkly opposing it today?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

Um, a few years ago he was for full on gun control. But "conservatives" don't remember that.

So why was the leader of the gun sales lobby for full on gun control before, and starkly opposing it today?

---

Care to offer anything relevant to the accusation presented or the questions i have asked?

I did. Waiting for your answer so I can tailor my answer to yours.

So why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

I did. Waiting for your answer so I can tailor my answer to yours.

So why?

---

If your argument is based upon discrediting the NRA as a source, that's fine. Lets go ahead and say the NRA is a completely unreliable source. Now explain to me the reason for a UN gun treaty and what would happen if the UN decided the US should be gun free?

You cant. Just shoot me a PM when you realize that your president is a shitbag cock sucker. I know you'll never admit it openly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

If your argument is based upon discrediting the NRA as a source, that's fine. Lets go ahead and say the NRA is a completely unreliable source. Now explain to me the reason for a UN gun treaty and what would happen if the UN decided the US should be gun free?

---

What about the UN treaty do you not understand? How would the UN deciding the US should "gun free" affect the US exactly?

What part of the treaty, that you read, made you feel that it would affect your personal gun ownership rights?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

What part of the treaty, that you read, made you feel that it would affect your personal gun ownership rights?

---

What purpose does it serve? It puts american gun laws on the table of discussion for the UN. Did you even watch the video?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

What purpose does it serve? It puts american gun laws on the table of discussion for the UN. Did you even watch the video?

---

Yes, I watched the video made by the people that want to buy more guns and the conservative think-tank Heritage Foundation. Great watch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

Yes, I watched the video made by the people that want to buy more guns and the conservative think-tank Heritage Foundation. Great watch.

---

Pretty cool how the NRA used that puppet on the UN floor to give that speech about how handguns were weapons of mass destruction eh? I wonder if real UN negotiations sound anything like that? who knows.... we should make a global gun treaty with them and hope for the best.

Biggest spokesperson for gun sales is Obama.... his words have sold more guns than anyone in history.

Is it unfathomable for a gun manufacturing lobby organization and a conservative think tank to creatively string together a video telling you your rights are in danger and that in order to maintain them you need to buy a gun and join the NRA and donate?

Does that kind of thing not happen? Or am I wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

Is it unfathomable for a gun manufacturing lobby organization and a conservative think tank to creatively string together a video telling you your rights are in danger and that in order to maintain them you need to buy a gun and join the NRA and donate?

Does that kind of thing not happen? Or am I wrong?

---

So the NRA, unwarranted by any action of Obama, is simply seizing the opportunity of public paranoia to boost gun sales. Is that what you're saying? Good ole transparent Obama with no secrets only has the american gun owner's best interest in mind?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

So the NRA, unwarranted by any action of Obama, is simply seizing the opportunity of public paranoia to boost gun sales. Is that what you're saying? Good ole transparent Obama with no secrets only has the american gun owner's best interest in mind?

---

Creating public paranoia.

Liberals.......

http://www.crystalinks.com/trojanhorse.jpg

Neither of you two have actually read the UN ATT document, or even studied up on it at all - that is for sure.

It deals with international sales of conventitional weapons, not domestic sales.

Legally, a UN treaty cannot override the 2nd Amendment. Period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David88vert

Neither of you two have actually read the UN ATT document, or even studied up on it at all - that is for sure.

---

Here comes the peanut gallery

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by .blank cd

Here comes the peanut gallery

---

If you knew anything about it, you wouldn't even be discussing it with Sinfix. You would have already pointed out to him that it has nothing to do with domestic sales. That's how I know you don't know anything about it.

Even Snopes has info on it. It's not hard to find out about. http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David88vert

Neither of you two have actually read the UN ATT document, or even studied up on it at all - that is for sure.

It deals with international sales of conventitional weapons, not domestic sales.

Legally, a UN treaty cannot override the 2nd Amendment. Period.

---

How can i confidently believe that the UN cant override the 2nd amendment when our own president wants to? The excuse of "the constitution doesnt allow that" does not work with this president. He already attempts it.

The UN arms treaty is the "Global standard for regulating arms transfers". What is the purpose of this? the United States signing a UN gun treaty is like someone who owns a steak house signing a vegetarian treaty. The UN is predominantly in favor of a gun ban. It's not that this will directly effect gun owners the moment pen touches paper..... it's that seeds are being planted. It's pretty obvious the direction Obama wants to steer america.

So california is where it begins......

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ers-grab-guns/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sinfix_15

How can i confidently believe that the UN cant override the 2nd amendment when our own president wants to? The excuse of "the constitution doesnt allow that" does not work with this president. He already attempts it.

The UN arms treaty is the "Global standard for regulating arms transfers". What is the purpose of this? the United States signing a UN gun treaty is like someone who owns a steak house signing a vegetarian treaty. The UN is predominantly in favor of a gun ban. It's not that this will directly effect gun owners the moment pen touches paper..... it's that seeds are being planted. It's pretty obvious the direction Obama wants to steer america.

---

Sorry, but you just don't get it. NO TREATY CAN OVERRIDE THE CONSTITUTION OR THE AMENDMENTS. Period. The UN has ZERO juristiction over the US. Learn what a treaty is, and what enforceable means.
The President does not have the power to ban guns, not by executive order, or by a treaty. It's a fact. You can believe it or not, but it does not change the legality of it.

Other countries don't care if you have an assault rifle. They don't want the #1 arms seller (The US government) to sell arms to their enemies. International sales are not the same as you buying at a gun store.

Under the proposed gun laws, if you're a parent and one of your kids gets in trouble or is diagnosed with the state's very loose determination of what mental illness is, the government can legally raid your home and confiscate your weapons. This is already happening in California. Where are they getting their information? By combing lists of registered gun owners. Theyre not going after the criminals, theyre using the "letter of the law" to go after compliant registered gun owners.


If you're a law abiding citizen with no criminal history what so ever and have a 4 year old with ADD, your house can be raided and your guns removed.





This is the reason for the healthcare link to gun control.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David88vert

Sorry, but you just don't get it. NO TREATY CAN OVERRIDE THE CONSTITUTION OR THE AMENDMENTS. Period. The UN has ZERO juristiction over the US. Learn what a treaty is, and what enforceable means.
The President does not have the power to ban guns, not by executive order, or by a treaty. It's a fact. You can believe it or not, but it does not change the legality of it.

Other countries don't care if you have an assault rifle. They don't want the #1 arms seller (The US government) to sell arms to their enemies. International sales are not the same as you buying at a gun store.

---

It's a first step. This president has already violated the constitution. Why should i believe the constitution protects me? The only thing that protects you is what theyre actively seeking to remove as we speak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David88vert

If you knew anything about it, you wouldn't even be discussing it with Sinfix. You would have already pointed out to him that it has nothing to do with domestic sales. That's how I know you don't know anything about it.

Even Snopes has info on it. It's not hard to find out about. snopes.com: U.N. Arms Trade Treaty

---

...Which is why I said, and I'm just quoting here...

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Originally Posted by .blank cd

What about the UN treaty do you not understand? How would the UN deciding the US should "gun free" affect the US exactly?

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What part of the treaty, that you read, made you feel that it would affect your personal gun ownership rights?

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