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Thread: Presidential Debate #1 Thread

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Default Presidential Debate #1 Thread

    Who do you think won?
    Comments and fact checks welcome.

    Personally, I think that Romney controlled it better.
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    Romney won in a landslide but at the same time did no lasting damage to Obama.

    Short term bump for Romney, long term, nothing more than a couple lines for an attack ad.

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    Romney won easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    Romney won in a landslide but at the same time did no lasting damage to Obama.

    Short term bump for Romney, long term, nothing more than a couple lines for an attack ad.

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    real question, how would someone ever do lasting damage to Obama? he has a legion of blind followers who have unconditional and unwavering affection for him.

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    I think Romney had no choice but to come out strong. If he lost here it was pretty much over.

    Romney spoke to Obama and appeared to listen and make notes to respond. He seemed prepared.

    Obama did not seem to be as attentive to Romney and did not seem as engaged.

    Newsmax is already saying that Romney won this debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    real question, how would someone ever do lasting damage to Obama? he has a legion of blind followers who have unconditional and unwavering affection for him.

    There are more than 40mil voters that are going to vote one way or the other no matter what the candidate says. They break evenly on both sides of the aisle. No amount of debate will change their minds. These debates are for the small percentage of voters that actually vote the candidate, not the party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy View Post
    There are more than 40mil voters that are going to vote one way or the other no matter what the candidate says. They break evenly on both sides of the aisle. No amount of debate will change their minds. These debates are for the small percentage of voters that actually vote the candidate, not the party.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
    That's a pretty depressing thought.

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    Who is John Galt? Echonova's Avatar
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    Looked to me that Romney got under Obama's skin more than once. Judging purely on facial expressions.

    As for the debate, I thought both did well pontificating about big plans with vague details. Obama mentioned Romney "has no real plan" more than once, but offered a vague plan himself. All in all I'd say it was a tie, if you already have a "guy" you're gonna think he won. But Obama did better than I thought he would, Romney did worse than I thought he would.

    After the debate the talking heads (I was watching CBS) were saying "Wow, you needed a calculator for the first 30 minutes"... Bitch please. You need a modicum of common sense and 5th grade math skills.

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    Based on body language alone and how one presented their debate....

    Romney: Staright forward to the point, KNEW what he was talking about, presented factual information, Even at one point Romney was clear and straight to the point in which Obama couldn't respond...

    Obama: The man couldn't even look Romney in the eyes in his rebuttals, uhhhh, Couldn't present his facts straight(Ever watch a speech were he had teleprompters? The man could read, but face to face....), uhhh, Obama presented "facts" in which were corrected in every one of Romney's rebuttal.

    Simply put it... Romney

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echonova View Post
    Looked to me that Romney got under Obama's skin more than once. Judging purely on facial expressions.

    As for the debate, I thought both did well pontificating about big plans with vague details. Obama mentioned Romney "has no real plan" more than once, but offered a vague plan himself. All in all I'd say it was a tie, if you already have a "guy" you're gonna think he won. But Obama did better than I thought he would, Romney did worse than I thought he would.

    After the debate the talking heads (I was watching CBS) were saying "Wow, you needed a calculator for the first 30 minutes"... Bitch please. You need a modicum of common sense and 5th grade math skills.
    pretty unanimous across the wave of media that Romney is being declared the winner of this debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    pretty unanimous across the wave of media that Romney is being declared the winner of this debate.
    I'm just giving my opinion, I don't really care what the media says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    he has a legion of blind followers who have unconditional and unwavering affection for him.
    And Romney doesn't? I'd be willing to bet the majority of votes he will receive are from people who just don't like Obama. No matter how shady he is, he's still going to get votes from his sheep.

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    Its not really big news that the challenger wins the 1st debate from the research I have seen and done. It validates the challenger, and as the incumbent you have to defend your record against someone new who has the advantage of proposing stuff you may have not done your research on.

    I thought Romney looked MUCH more prepared, much sharper, much more commanding of the numbers and data. Obama looked lost, looked like he wanted to do what he normally does which is talk like a preacher, YES WE CAN, HOPE AND CHANGE, WE CAN DO THIS TOGETHER AMERICA, and ROmney didnt let him do that. He looked lost when challenged.

    In 2008 Mccain COULDNT challenge OBama because he was stuck, Mccain couldnt endorse Bush POlicies because we were in the middle of a meltdown financially, ANd he had nothing really new to talk about. Obama sold this different kind of govt and such that , now, you can choose whether it worked or not.

    Im not going to sit here and say he WON or he LOST because all that matters, is what the Frank Luntz Focus group showed:

    13 people out of 24 voted for Obama in 2008, 12 said they were now heavily leaning toward Romney. 20/24 said Romney won hands down, Obama looked "meek, lost, unprepared, like he was being scolded".

    That is a BIG PROBLEM for Obama
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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Im concerned that defense budget cuts weren't on Romneys list of cuts, and that PBS...is. And his regressive tax plan.

    One thing was blatantly obvious, there were two conservative candidates on that stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze View Post
    And Romney doesn't? I'd be willing to bet the majority of votes he will receive are from people who just don't like Obama. No matter how shady he is, he's still going to get votes from his sheep.
    lol at an Obama supporter calling someone a sheep.

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    OBAMA: "I've proposed a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan. ... The way we do it is $2.50 for every cut, we ask for $1 in additional revenue."
    THE FACTS: In promising $4 trillion, Obama is already banking more than $2 trillion from legislation enacted along with Republicans last year that cut agency operating budgets and capped them for 10 years. He also claims more than $800 billion in war savings that would occur anyway. And he uses creative bookkeeping to hide spending on Medicare reimbursements to doctors. Take those "cuts" away and Obama's $2.50/$1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases shifts significantly more in the direction of tax increases.
    Obama's February budget offered proposals that would cut deficits over the coming decade by $2 trillion instead of $4 trillion. Of that deficit reduction, tax increases accounted for $1.6 trillion. He promises relatively small spending cuts of $597 billion from big federal benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid. He also proposed higher spending on infrastructure projects.
    ___
    ROMNEY on cutting the deficit: "Obamacare's on my list. ... I'm going to stop the subsidy to PBS. ... I'll make government more efficient."
    THE FACTS: Romney has promised to balance the budget in eight years to 10 years, but he hasn't offered a complete plan. Instead, he's promised a set of principles, some of which — like increasing Pentagon spending and restoring more than $700 billion in cuts that Democrats made in Medicare over the coming decade — work against his goal. He also has said he will not consider tax increases.
    He pledges to shrink the government to 20 percent of the size of the economy, as opposed to more than 23 percent of gross domestic product now, by the end of his first term. The Romney campaign estimates that would require cuts of $500 billion from the 2016 budget alone. He also has pledged to cut tax rates by 20 percent, paying for them by eliminating tax breaks for the wealthiest and through economic growth.
    To fulfill his promise, then, Romney would require cuts to other programs so deep — under one calculation requiring cutting many areas of the domestic budget by one-third within four years — that they could never get through Congress. Cuts to domestic agencies would have to be particularly deep.
    But he's offered only a few modest examples of government programs he'd be willing to squeeze, like subsidies to PBS and Amtrak. He does want to repeal Obama's big health care law, but that law is actually forecast to reduce the deficit.
    ___
    OBAMA: "Gov. Romney's central economic plan calls for a $5 trillion tax cut — on top of the extension of the Bush tax cuts, that's another trillion dollars — and $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military hasn't asked for. That's $8 trillion. How we pay for that, reduce the deficit, and make the investments that we need to make, without dumping those costs onto middle-class Americans, I think is one of the central questions of this campaign."
    THE FACTS: Obama's claim that Romney wants to cut taxes by $5 trillion doesn't add up. Presumably, Obama was talking about the effect of Romney's tax plan over 10 years, which is common in Washington. But Obama's math doesn't take into account Romney's entire plan.
    Romney proposes to reduce income tax rates by 20 percent and eliminate the estate tax and the alternative minimum tax. The Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group, says that would reduce federal tax revenues by $465 billion in 2015, which would add up to about $5 trillion over 10 years.
    However, Romney says he wants to pay for the tax cuts by reducing or eliminating tax credits, deductions and exemptions. The goal is a simpler tax code that raises the same amount of money as the current system but does it in a more efficient manner.
    The knock on Romney's plan, which Obama accurately cited, is that Romney has refused to say which tax breaks he would eliminate to pay for the lower rates.
    ___
    ROMNEY: Obama's health care plan "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don't like that idea."
    THE FACTS: Romney is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act. But Obama's health care law explicitly explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn't have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.
    Romney seems to be resurrecting the assertion that Obama's law would lead to rationing, made famous by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's widely debunked allegation that it would create "death panels."
    The board has yet to be named, and its members would ultimately have to be confirmed by the Senate. Health care inflation has been modest in the last few years, so cuts would be unlikely for most of the rest of this decade.
    ___
    OBAMA: It's important "that we take some of the money that we're saving as we wind down two wars to rebuild America."
    THE FACTS: This oft-repeated claim is based on a fiscal fiction. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were paid for mostly with borrowed money, so stopping them doesn't create a new pool of available cash that can be used for something else, like rebuilding America. It just slows down the government's borrowing.
    ___
    ROMNEY: "At the same time, gasoline prices have doubled under the president. Electric rates are up."
    THE FACTS: He's right that the average price has doubled, and a little more, since Obama was sworn in. But presidents have almost no influence on gasoline prices, and certainly not in the near term. Gasoline prices are set on financial exchanges around the world and are based on a host of factors, most importantly the price of crude oil used to make gasoline, the amount of finished gasoline ready to be shipped and the capacity of refiners to make enough to meet market demand.
    Retail electricity prices have risen since Obama took office — barely. They've grown by an average of less than 1 percent per year, less than the rate of inflation and slower than the historical growth in electricity prices. The unexpectedly modest rise in electricity prices is because of the plummeting cost of natural gas, which is used to generate electricity.
    ___
    OBAMA: "Independent studies looking at this said the only way to meet Gov. Romney's pledge of not ... adding to the deficit is by burdening middle-class families. The average middle-class family with children would pay about $2,000 more."
    THE FACTS: That's just one scenario. Obama's claim relies on a study by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group. The study, however, is more nuanced than Obama indicated.
    The study concludes it would be impossible for Romney to meet all of his stated goals without shifting some of the tax burden from people who make more than $200,000 to people who make less.
    In one scenario, the study says, Romney's proposal could result in a $2,000 tax increase for families who make less than $200,000 and have children.
    Romney says his plan wouldn't raise taxes on anyone, and his campaign points to several studies by conservative think tanks that dispute the Tax Policy Center's findings. Most of the conservative studies argue that Romney's tax plan would stimulate economic growth, generating additional tax revenue without shifting any of the tax burden to the middle class. Congress, however, doesn't use those kinds of projections when it estimates the effect of tax legislation.
    ___

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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    ^ I like you

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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    lol at an Obama supporter calling someone a sheep.
    Hey now pot, lets not start calling kettle names...

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    Small sample of what the avg Obama supporter posts on twitter. Obama supporters are clearly educated and well informed on their voting decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    ^ I like you


    Lol, thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Small sample of what the avg Obama supporter posts on twitter. Obama supporters are clearly educated and well informed on their voting decision.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Small sample of what the avg Obama supporter posts on twitter. Obama supporters are clearly educated and well informed on their voting decision.
    How is this one picture even close to a representative sample of people that voted for Obama?

    Care to give an equally generalized sample of Romney voters? Or is every single Romney voter a brilliant intellectual?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    How is this one picture even close to a representative sample of people that voted for Obama?

    Care to give an equally generalized sample of Romney voters? Or is every single Romney voter a brilliant intellectual?
    Come on Blank, you know you're aware of this. Obama clearly has the support of the "facebook generation". There's a lot more misfits on your side of the isle.

    "my president is black" was trending on twitter.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Come on Blank, you know you're aware of this. Obama clearly has the support of the "facebook generation". There's a lot more misfits on your side of the isle.
    And you came to this conclusion...how? By one tweeted picture on one trending topic? Do you not think that's a tad biased?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    And you came to this conclusion...how? By one tweeted picture on one trending topic? Do you not think that's a tad biased?
    Using twitter as a source...... the avg Obama supporter has the IQ of a cantaloupe. Feel free to jump on twitter and click the hashtags "Obama2012" "my president is black" or anything else of the sort. You would honestly have to dig and try very hard to find a reasonable Obama supporter... and when you did... it would be buried in a sea of morons.

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    magical negro/photog .blank cd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    Using twitter as a source...... the avg Obama supporter has the IQ of a cantaloupe. Feel free to jump on twitter and click the hashtags "Obama2012" "my president is black" or anything else of the sort. You would honestly have to dig and try very hard to find a reasonable Obama supporter... and when you did... it would be buried in a sea of morons.
    So out of almost 70 million people (who previously voted for Obama) you're saying it'd be difficult to find a reasonable Obama voter?

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    oh man..... Ryan vs Biden....................... make sure to have some liquor on standby when you watch that one Blank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    So out of almost 70 million people (who previously voted for Obama) you're saying it'd be difficult to find a reasonable Obama voter?
    No, a good way to summarize what im saying would be...................

    Not every Obama supporter is welfare riding moron who sells their food stamps to buy newports, but every welfare riding moron who sells their food stamps to buy newports is an Obama supporter.

    I'm not saying that all Obama supporters are "misfits". I'm saying that most misfits seem to be Obama supporters. What % of the base they make up.... who knows...

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    Cant wait for Biden..................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    No, a good way to summarize what im saying would be...................

    Not every Obama supporter is welfare riding moron who sells their food stamps to buy newports, but every welfare riding moron who sells their food stamps to buy newports is an Obama supporter.
    Theres a couple million voters on welfare at the moment. You're saying not a single one of them voted republican?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .blank cd View Post
    Theres a couple million voters on welfare at the moment. You're saying not a single one of them voted republican?
    My description covered a little more than welfare. Anyways, time for bed. I'm greatly looking forward to Biden and Ryan debate.

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    cant seem to go to sleep............... here's another small taste of twitter gold.

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    Personally I am 100% pushed away from Romney from that debate because of what he said about fixing the deficit. The dude is a moron.

    Not to mention I'm not voting for someone that supports "magic underwear."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    No, a good way to summarize what im saying would be...................

    Not every Obama supporter is welfare riding moron who sells their food stamps to buy newports, but every welfare riding moron who sells their food stamps to buy newports is an Obama supporter.

    I'm not saying that all Obama supporters are "misfits". I'm saying that most misfits seem to be Obama supporters. What % of the base they make up.... who knows...
    Where do you make this up at?

    I've personally SEEN stupid white trash hicks do exactly as you're describing and they HATE Obama.

    "The funna take our gunz!"
    "I can't get no job cause of OBAMA!"
    "He a muslim negro!"

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    i appreciate everyone in this thread that is being rational and actually being realistic about both candidates. watching sinfix post up on this is like walking on lava even though it hurts



    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    You travel with so much luggage that it wont fit in a wagon? you dating a kardashian?

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    I believe that Obama got his message across last night. If you like what he has done over the last 4 years, re-elect him, and he will do more of the same.

    If your life is not better off now than it was 4 years ago, I don't think that it means that you should blindly vote for Romney. Voters need to look closely to see what his policies will do at a national scale. State programs do not always scale to national level.
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    I think a lot of you need to take a GOVT 101 class:

    1) Neither candidate was specific about ANYTHING. Obama has NOT covered what he would specifically cut, nor has Romney. Huistory shows that CUTS in SPENDING NEVER HAPPEN. Its a talking point. Taxes will go up , but the politicians wont EVER responsibly cut spending.

    2) Romney will not be specific, its not his job. That is the legislature. The PRESIDENTS job is to provide a basic vision, which Romney has done , and get congress to pass legislature in a bipartisan manner that supports that vision. Last time i checked the president cannot pass any laws by himself.

    3) Obama has done the exact same thing Romney is doing, he provides NO SPECIFICS, its "HIRE 1 million more teachers, build roads and bridges" but none of that ACTUALLY happens. NO SPECIFICS on where that revenue comes from, and the tax increases he talks about on the wealthy he does not specifically mention how that money will be spent.

    4) Romney made a great point about the energy subsidies. Obama complains about the 2.8 Billion in oil company subsidies while dumping 90 million down the drain on Green Energy or more (if you count solyndra).

    Romney KNOWS he cannot balance the budget and unfortunately he wont say it. Its too bad , he should. Obama has made it so that NO ONE can responsibly balance the budget anytime soon, you cant with 1 trillion+ deficits. The spendign cuts it would take to balance the budget would piss off too many voters.

    Obama cant tax his was to balancing the budget because the CBO says even letting the Bush Tax Cuts end for the wealthy amounts to less than 100 billion dollars.

    you realize 100 billion is 1/10th his DEFICITS. Its like paying $100 on a $1000 credit card (with interest that amounts to $70 a month).

    The only way to get us fiscally responsible is to get the economy growing and adding jobs from the private sector, you can choose who to believe will do that better, but it wont happen overnight.

    Romney should just come out an say "i cant balance the budget, not in my first 4 years, but i promise to spend less than XXXX"

    I dont see how people can bitch about not having a job but then back subsidies for left organizations like PBS.

    Its time the govt stops spending OUR MONEY on shit WE DONT NEED.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by simontibbett View Post
    Where do you make this up at?

    I've personally SEEN stupid white trash hicks do exactly as you're describing and they HATE Obama.

    "The funna take our gunz!"
    "I can't get no job cause of OBAMA!"
    "He a muslim negro!"
    I see those people also.... but 97% of white people didnt vote for Mccain did they?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    I think a lot of you need to take a GOVT 101 class:

    1) Neither candidate was specific about ANYTHING. Obama has NOT covered what he would specifically cut, nor has Romney. Huistory shows that CUTS in SPENDING NEVER HAPPEN. Its a talking point. Taxes will go up , but the politicians wont EVER responsibly cut spending.

    2) Romney will not be specific, its not his job. That is the legislature. The PRESIDENTS job is to provide a basic vision, which Romney has done , and get congress to pass legislature in a bipartisan manner that supports that vision. Last time i checked the president cannot pass any laws by himself.

    3) Obama has done the exact same thing Romney is doing, he provides NO SPECIFICS, its "HIRE 1 million more teachers, build roads and bridges" but none of that ACTUALLY happens. NO SPECIFICS on where that revenue comes from, and the tax increases he talks about on the wealthy he does not specifically mention how that money will be spent.

    4) Romney made a great point about the energy subsidies. Obama complains about the 2.8 Billion in oil company subsidies while dumping 90 million down the drain on Green Energy or more (if you count solyndra).

    Romney KNOWS he cannot balance the budget and unfortunately he wont say it. Its too bad , he should. Obama has made it so that NO ONE can responsibly balance the budget anytime soon, you cant with 1 trillion+ deficits. The spendign cuts it would take to balance the budget would piss off too many voters.

    Obama cant tax his was to balancing the budget because the CBO says even letting the Bush Tax Cuts end for the wealthy amounts to less than 100 billion dollars.

    you realize 100 billion is 1/10th his DEFICITS. Its like paying $100 on a $1000 credit card (with interest that amounts to $70 a month).

    The only way to get us fiscally responsible is to get the economy growing and adding jobs from the private sector, you can choose who to believe will do that better, but it wont happen overnight.

    Romney should just come out an say "i cant balance the budget, not in my first 4 years, but i promise to spend less than XXXX"

    I dont see how people can bitch about not having a job but then back subsidies for left organizations like PBS.

    Its time the govt stops spending OUR MONEY on shit WE DONT NEED.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    You travel with so much luggage that it wont fit in a wagon? you dating a kardashian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfix_15 View Post
    lol at an Obama supporter calling someone a sheep.
    When did I state I was voting for Obama? Or at all for that matter? I already know how misinformed you are on a vast number of things by discussions in other threads. Unfortunately this is the plight of a lot of Americans. Not well enough informed to make a proper decision regarding politics. Using Fox News and Twitter as reputable sources. I mean really?

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