It would be nice if we didnt get stuck trying to decide who would be worse wouldnt it?Quote:
Originally Posted by simontibbett
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It would be nice if we didnt get stuck trying to decide who would be worse wouldnt it?Quote:
Originally Posted by simontibbett
Taken seriously, I get it... it's like the Bush vs. Kerry... at that point it was the lesser of two evils but we all know that Bush was the right man for the job at that given time.Quote:
Originally Posted by simontibbett
Romney's speech last night was well written. I spotted some clear mistakes though. Promising to roll back Obamacare is not something that the executive branch can do. He's running for President, not Congress.
Did anyone catch the the guy with the "Hispanics 4 Mitt" sign? The guy holding it was clearly Caucasian, not Hispanic, and appeared to have a Romney staff layard and ID on. I actually didn't see any non-Caucasian people in the crowd in any of the shots.
You must have not met any Hispanics outside of dark-skinned Mexicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
You are so wrong (as usual). I know plenty of Hispanics, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, etc. Here in Atlanta, there are more Mexicans, but not so much down in Miami.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
The guy that I saw was not about to be recognized by any Hispanics as Hispanic by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, it is possible that he is mix, but not evident on screen, as his complexion favored European descent.
I saw a bit of different ethnicities in the sea of white folks there. Yes, they were peppered in there but they were there. Saw blacks, asians, east indians, and hispanics. I think the GOP will soon be the party of diversity in the near future as their values align more with most minority americans and immigrants.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
I do know who you're talking about: Agreed. He was certainly a large pompous older (bald, if i recall) white dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
Probably what it was. My wife is half cuban and you would never know it to look at her. She definitely favors her mother who is irish and french.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
actually yea, an elected president can make a significant enough change to be noticable during his term. look at reagan. I just think obma is the biggest lier and unethical person to have served in office in recent history. He keeps claiming hes fighting for the middle class yet is raising taxes on the middle class IE: obamacare.Quote:
Originally Posted by simontibbett
Well, looks like Bill Clinton might win the election for this bum we have in office.
Funny how facts work, isn't it? LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
It's not facts, it's charisma. Bill Clinton is the type of guy who could sell beach houses in Alaska. What he's selling is horse shit, but he's very good at it. Democrats blame rainy days on the guy before them and take credit for the sun coming up the next day.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I know it sounds like pure charisma when your speech isn't jam packed with blatant falsehoods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
Clinton's speech was excellent. Yes, there are incorrect statements in all of the political statements from both sides, but the fact is that people feel connected to Clinton when he speaks, and Romney and Obama just don't have the same connection to the public.
At the beginning of Clinton's speech, when he kept saying that he was here to nominate a man that we need, I was waiting for him to say - "You need me. I nominate myself."
"The republicans said 'we're not gonna let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers'. Now I finally get to say it...that one is true"
Bill fucking Clinton, ladies and gentlemen.
That was a funny moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I believe it was in reference to the comments last week that the Repubs made about the leadership of FactCheck.org having a liberal bias.
In truth, they do have a liberal bias, but not majorly so. It's probably because they are run by Annenberg Foundation's Annenberg Public Policy Center, which i s lead by a Limbaugh baser, known liberal K H Jamieson, who wrote, “Echo Chamber: Rush Limbaugh and the Conservative Media Establishment”, and used to be on Bill Moyer's show.
Facts are truth depending on one's point of view, and are not the same to everyone. So it's possible that some conservatives, especially the extreme far right, would find them to be too liberal. Even so, to me, they don't seem overly liberal. I suspect that some of the extreme far left might find them to be too conservative.
So facts can be biased now? Damn. People are altering reality faster than I can keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
Can you give me a simple example of a "liberal" fact and a "conservative" fact please?
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Bill Clinton saying he left a SURPLUS. Thats a liberal FACT, but its not true.
Obama saying he "Saves 716 billion from medicare", liberal fact, not true at all and no way to even prove it would happen.
Democrats "We created 4.5 million jobs". Thats mostly true, but they are ignoring the X Million of jobs that were lost.
Want to hear some GOP ones? sure, lets do that too
Ryan talking about the GM plant Obama "abandoned". Even though it really happened under George W Bush watch. Not really Obamas fault.
GOP claiming they are for Cutting spending, but dont want to do anything to cut Defense spending.
Its pretty obvious that the FACTCHECK websites are all, well, full of shit. Very few are REALLY accurate, my point is if you REALLY know the issues, you dont need a site to tell you what is true and what is not.
The fact is people mostly believe that their party is the only one who tells the truth. Too many people are scared to call out their own party for being wrong.
We can sit here and bullshit about what is right and wrong about a speech , or we can deal with the real facts.
UE -Higher than 4 years ago
Gasoline- Higher than 4 years ago
Deficit- Higher than 4 years ago
Taxes- Payroll tax is 50% less (like 3.5% lower? very little done). taxes on middle class arent currently higher , but will be higher once Obamacare is implemented.
DOW- Higher than what it was 4 years ago, BUT, i thought Obama promised to grow middle class and change the wall street infrastructure. he hasnt.
Income- Median income is lower than when he took office
Foreign Policy- OBL dead, Iran closer to having a nuke, Iraq war over, Afghanistan, almost over.
Facts are facts.
Let's stop right here because the rest of your examples are framed the same wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
If you say it's not TRUE, does it still qualify as a FACT?
You're saying it's a liberal statement that's not true. I can go with this...
But either he actually did leave a budget surplus, and his statement would be a fact, OR he didn't leave a budget surplus and his statement would be untrue, thus, NOT a fact.
Extremely biased. Where are all the good facts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
it depends on how you define the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
If i tell you that i created 4.5 million jobs , but i didnt count the 8 million that were lost =3.5 million jobs lost
which is true? technically its 50% true. If yo uare a liberal its true, if you are a conservative its false.
There are hundreds of issues the GOP does the exact same thing over and over again. They quote "WE CUT THE DEFICIT!" , when in reality, they cut the rate of increase in spending.
IE , we spend at a rate of 10% per year INCREASE. If i spend $100 a year, and project next year ill spend $110, that is a 10% increase. If, in the third year, i say "ehh, ill spend 9% increase, not the 10%" did you really cut anything? No you just decided to spend less than your rate of increase.
Its all how you present the numbers and facts.
WTF do you not understand simple numbers?Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson9995
Obama takes office 7.8%, NOW 8.3%
Gas when he took office $2.78, $3.85 NOW
Deficit 10 Trillions 2008, 16 trillion NOW
Median income when he took office was $52XXX, its now $49,XXX
This is all scored by the god damn CBO, the fact you would even sit here and propagate that those numbers are biased is laughable. GO TO THE FUCKING GAS PUMP AND TELL ME IF YOU PAY MORE THAN YOU DID 4 YEARS AGO, THE REST IS SELF EXPLANATORY.
Ok. Let's further expand on this. If you, Vteckidd, told me you created 4.5mil jobs, and you actually did, then that would be a fact. It doesn't matter whether you're a liberal or conservative. If I told you out of a box of 20 crackers, I ate 10, and everyone watched me eat them, and there are 10 crackers left, it would be a fact that I ate 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
It's all true if you were directly responsible for it. 8m jobs lost, 4.5m created, 3.5m still left. The way in which we adhere to facts doesn't make you liberal or conservative, it's in how you approach the solution.Quote:
If i tell you that i created 4.5 million jobs , but i didnt count the 8 million that were lost =3.5 million jobs lost
which is true? technically its 50% true. If you are a liberal its true, if you are a conservative its false.
If i go to vegas with $10,000 to play blackjack all night and spend most of the night losing, but with my final chip i win $500 and come home with $500, then technically "i won $500" is a fact. That's the way democrats present the "facts".Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Sweeping generalization, you could change democrats to 'someone with an agenda'Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
All politicians twist "facts", but in this case we're talking about democrats. Nobody is ever going to say "look, i suck, get me out of here" , they're always going to defend their record no matter how poor it is. Obama is the best example we'll have of that in our lifetime.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
You should have seen the exposé they did on the daily show last week at the RNC about the same thing....Quote:
Originally Posted by Echonova
I'm sure I would have laughed at that, I'll go look it up. Hell, I like Bill Maher. Don't agree with virtually anything he says, but that doesn't mean he's not funny as shit. I don't take any of the "gotcha" interviews seriously anyway, I just think they are funny. But I am pessimistic combined with a dry sense of humor.
I did see ABC's interview the Daily's Show John Oliver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RHvqNW88jw
Here's how I score the speeches after watching them all.
Ryan's was better than Biden's, but Biden wasn't weak. If you consider how the Ryan plan isn't really worth the paper it's printed on, and then Biden was pretty solid, and at least even with Ryan, if not better.
Obama's speech was better than Romney's. Period. I'm not saying that Romney's was bad, but Obama was better at getting his message across. Better speech writing, but the Dems had a week to prepare.
Clinton was better than all 4 of them put together.
If Obama wins again that will prove that it's not what you say, its how you say it.
MORGAN FREEMAN 2016!!!!!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly...w8p1o1_500.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
edit
I dont know i thought Bidens speech was terrible. He flubbed, he mispoke, it just sounded like he was yelling.
Obama, possibly one of the greatest orator we have ever seen. He sounds more like a preacher to me. A preacher talking to his congregation.
Paul Ryan, i will disagree, i thought gave one of the best speeches. it was a "im not backing down , bring it on" type speech.
Clinton , first 15-20 minutes, awesome, last 30 minutes, terrible.
Romney, as usual, to me played it safe.
Id rank them
Obama
Ryan
Romney
Clinton
Biden
Im 100% totally biased, as the stuff Obama and Biden said i just dont agree with. If your platform is "we saved GM and killed OBL" it just shows me how out of touch you are with the economic problems we are facing.
the other thing is they are reporting that Obama had an advance copy of todays Jobs report, before he went on. He had it for a few hours, so that may have been why he was more ............."give me time" instead of on the attack
I think you missed his point. His point was not that your numbers are wrong, it was that you only listed facts that seem to reflect negatively on Obama. You could have listed facts like "There is no longer a huge housing bubble" or "Corporations have unprecendented levels of cash". Further, the facts you listed don't prove Obama did a bad job unless you claim that those numbers are solely the effect of Obama's performance and there were no other affecting factors. Do you believe the president really has much to do with gas prices? I filled up for under 3 bucks a gallon a month ago. Does that mean Obama did something in the past month to raise gas prices by a third?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
but Bush had EVERYTHING to do with his term. You cant play both sides of the fence. Dems blame any and everyone but themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain