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The fact that they are taxpayer funded is totally irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
What plutocratic country are you talking about?Quote:
Business is transactions between people, whether they are individuals or companies.
Government cannot survive without the people and business. Business will continue whether there is government or not (not necessarily as easily, of course).
It is completely relevant. All of the projects/services that you mention are completely funded by the people. You think that the government magically gives the services to the businesses?Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I am talking about the USA. You obviously are not living in this country if you cannot recognize the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Since you still didn't explain your previous statement, instead you simply ignored it, here is some food for thought. France's President wants to raise taxes on the rich still more - and look what the response from the rich is - they are looking to move out of France.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/bu...1&ref=business
The fact is that if the rich leave, then they will not have the capital needed to fund all of the social programs. If you think that the US is different, then you don't understand people and their desire to keep what they earned.
Yes and no. Its a chicken and Egg first conversation. Without Businesses/People, governement collects no tax revenue, without tax revenue theres no roads or bridges or blah blah blah.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Remember Govt doesnt create or produce revenue, it collects taxes. Its not a business. it doesnt run like a business. Theres also nothing that a Govt does that cannot be done by a private business (IE pave/build roads, rapid transit, ports, shipping, regulations, etc). I would say the govt depends much more on the taxes it collects than the individual depends on the govt to provide a service.
Again, for me its the substance of the argument. Obama has done nothing to further the middle class even though we sit here and lampoon the GOP for catering to the wealthy. Obama is no different with his $40,000 a plate fundraisers , rubbing elbows with bankers and dumping lost billions into green "TECH" companies knowing it will go bad, all kinds of things.
HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS. Im not so sure Romney does either.
Neither the Republican Party nor the Democratic Party represent the majority of United States citizens. Both candidates are subject to their parties wishes if they wish to receive the nomination. Fix the party's political platform if you wish to have a better candidate from each major party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
The difference is i just believe in the republican /gop economic policies more than the Democrats. I think if Romney wins the economy will get better and UE will go down because businesses will do better. I think he will be a much better pro business guy than Obama has proven to be.
Will that motivate people to get off food stamps and welfare...........that i dont think he has any control over.
will it stop the OWS people? probably not.
We will still have to hold Romney to the same standard we hold Obama too, he will have to cut spending, reduce the deficit, create jobs without fudging the numbers. I just hope if Romney gets in people hold him to a high standard because we have a LONG WAY TO GO.
Blank probably flipped over backwards in his chair and spit out his drink when he read that line. Probably cant imagine a life without government aid. Independence is a foreign concept. We must rely on the government to control our endeavors.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
OMG. IS...IS THIS TRUE?? GOVERNMENT SERVICES ARE TAXPAYER FUNDED??? YOU SIT ON A THRONE OF LIES. I GET MY EBT CARD ALL BY MYSELF, WITH NO ONES HELP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
The fact is, these government services and infrastructures are in place, and you will pay for them whether you use them or not. This is why it's irrelevant.
You can choose to go to public school and learn. You can go to a privately funded school if you want. A teacher still helped you learn, either way. You had help. You might have had the idea on your own but you didn't do everything on your own. Why is this even debatable? Lol.
"Shit.. I can't do shit by myself. Even if I took a shit....somehow, Home Depot helped me by making the toilet, and Charmin provided the ass paper. I guess the government is helping me hold my dick when I pee..."
- .blank.
Welp. That settles it. ISAtlanta, David88, and the rest of their fellow staunch conservatives have figured it out. Obama is a dumbass proclaiming businesses didn't do everything on their own. What was he thinking? Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300
BTW, since no one has any help starting a business, y'all better tell these guys to pack it up and go home. They're all out of a job now. Lol
http://www.bankofamerica.com/small_b...ess_financing/
https://www.wellsfargo.com/biz/loans_lines
wait a minute, is this......is this a government assistance program?
http://www.sba.gov/category/navigati.../loans-grants/
I wonder what percent of Fortune 500 companies were started from a small business loan, or grant. That'd be some interesting information....
Anyone wanna place a wager that it's more than 0%? Anyone?
I almost forgot. More government help. Tax deductions. A nice gesture by uncle Sam that says "Hey, thanks for making America great, write off some of your business expenses."
http://sbinformation.about.com/od/ta...duction_ga.htm
Since businesses don't use government help, this should help with getting businesses to pay the top tax rate.
"Oh...you say you don't want to increase taxes on businesses? I thought you said before you don't need help from the government?"
Help you pay for is still help.
Hey, you there, stop being so rational.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
The government helps us, as they were appointed by us to do. We are not getting our money's worth and the more powerful the government becomes, the more they abuse that power and the less they care about our needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
We dont need a government that feeds, clothes and shelters us. We need a government that maintains a society suitable for us to feed, cloth and shelter ourselves. The president is a management position, not a care taker. Pop the government's titty out of your mouth and grow up. I dont want the government to take care of me. I'm not happy with the service im provided for my tax money.
I think one thing we're forgetting here is that WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. ;)
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That's fine. You have a choice though. If youre not happy, DONT USE THEIR SERVICES. Simple as that. Dont drive on any roads, shut your water off, your electricity, dont take your kids to public school, dont mail anything. You could even go one step further and stop paying for them. No one has a gun to your head. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
Oh i bet a ton of people start businesses with SB Loans and such. Frank Ski started his restaurant on Peachtree with a SBA Loan backed by the govt. But where does the govt get that revenue from? Taxpayers.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Again its a chicken and egg argument.
I look at the whole picture, rather than sit here and aruge that govt does 0 for anyone, which is what is going on, i will argue what the future looks like. It doesnt look good on the current path, Im not sure Romney is the answer, but i think more people will go back to work with romney vs obama
I have given up on this. Too many people cannot grasp the difference between someone helping you do something and someone doing it for you. I dont think most of you making this claim are that dumb so I have to think you are just making excuses for the idiot.
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I pay for all of these services and people like me established and built all of these services. What makes you think the government owns the roads? we built the roads, we paid for the roads to be built. I'm just as entitled to drive on the roads as President Obama is. Why is the answer always "dont use their services"? its not *THEIR* services. How about we fire everyone in office and make them stop using the roads? We citizens own the roads, we just employed the government to manage them for us. If the owner of applebees fires the manager, that manager doesnt get to close the place down and take all of the food home. He's an employee. You and I, we own america. Your mom, dad, brother, grandfather, sister.... we own america. President Obama is our employee. Mitt Romney, he's applying for a job. These people in office need to be reminded of this fact. When the 2nd amendment was wrote, it was to enforce this fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I think everyone does grasp the difference. Despite Obama's bad wording, no one is saying business owners didn't build their businesses. Just that we all should recognize no one builds a business in a vacuum. They build it within the infrastructure of our society which has been built over time through everyone's contributions (including the business owners).Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
This thread is still going? Here's a simple scenario. Who wakes you up to go to work Monday-friday? You provide labor/services and recieve compensation. We are all in charge of our own success and failure. I have a pos uncle that is 30, lives at home, no job, no car, no drivers lisence...his failure can be chalked up to many things...but it in the end he is just lazy. The government doesn't make u work or stay home. Your entire life is on ur own hands. Shame on Obama abd the government for playing "god" and shame on those who "worship" it.
Do you realize the schools in DeKalb County were community sponsored back in the mid-1800's? The DeKalb county school board wasn't started until 1873. Even now, they are run by the county school boards. The federal government is not directly in charge of schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I've never had to take a business loan, and neither has a lot of others. Even then, the banks loan to make money, not as a help. It's their business.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I wonder why businesses and people want to leave France? Oh yeah, higher taxes than Belgium.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
You have to have some taxes, but there comes a point when it is just too much. You have to find a balance.
Tax deductions are just collecting less taxes. It's not like you are being given anything.
You must live in a place beling supplied to you. Georgia Power is not government supplied services.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Water is county, not federal. Federal services have been the majority of the discussion.
Even if he turned off water, and doesn't have kids, he still would have to pay for the services.
^ Why are you still trying to rationalize this? LOL. You're absolutely right, David, Despite all the facts saying otherwise, no business owners anywhere ever needed help. Ever. All businesses were created in a vacuum. Lol.
You should run for president. Obama has a lot to learn from you. Lol.
/thread.
You assume that all business owners need help. That's just not true. In the beginning, people did business without government interference/involvment. In many areas today, there are plenty of businesses that still do not need or receive help from the government. Look at ranchers in Montana - they drill from water, many create their own electricity, build their own homes, grow their own crops, etc. Yet they still have to pay the same taxes to the federal government. They do get some services such as protection by our Armed Forces - just less services than you and I.
Obama could learn a lot from me - this is his first real job, and he has not ever had to start a business. I've worked in a variety of companies from corporate down to single-owner run businesses, and have had to deal with start-ups, shutdowns, and more, including my own. Perhaps you should try to learn also...
And we are back to trying to figure out the difference between help, purchased products and services, and someone doing it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
I'm guessing that next he will claim that all of our homes are provided by the government as well. Why am I paying for it then? Why am I receiving bills for the utilities I use? Why isn't Obama paying for all of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Who said anything about anyone doing everything for you? I haven't said anything even remotely close that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Just drop it. There are people who believe everything they've done, they do alone. You're not going to change anyone's mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
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Nobody believes that the government does not help them or that they dont need help. The government is not a stand alone entity. We fund the government. If not for me and you, the government doesnt have any money to help business'. We appoint the government to represent us and manage our society. We fund them, we pay them. Without the people's support, there is no government. When Obama or any member of government hands over assistance to a small business, theyre giving that small business my money, your money... everyone's money. We all agreed to pay taxes and allow them to represent us. It's a joint operation. The government doesnt take care of us, we take care of each other. Our argument is that the government isnt living up to their promises. I pay my taxes, everyone does.... we have to... there's no choice. Unlike the local pizza place where i can decide to not eat there if the pizza sucks or ask for my money back, it's a little more difficult with this government. Obama is a shitty under cooked pizza with no pepperoni on it, even though i ordered pepperoni.... but the pizza place is refusing to give me my money's worth because "you cant live without eating".Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdallas
The government works for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! our government is so shitty that you've forgotten this fact and now view them as some care taker of your life that you're just happy to get anything from them, but that isnt the case. There is no government without people, so the argument of nobody can do anything without government help is ridiculous. The government cant do anything without us. We buy the jets, the aircraft carriers, the roads, the white house, the college grants........ we pay for that. The government doesnt GIVE those things to us. We pay for them. We allow the government to exist. Does your accountant own your life savings? It's your money, you just have someone else manage it for you. This is our country, Obama is an employee that we pay to represent us. He's not your fucking daddy.
How many business owners would the government be able to help if there were no business owners paying taxes. Obama does have a lot to learn from probably almost anyone walking the street.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
Obama said exactly that and you have been trying to spin it as far away from what he actually said as you can.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
"If you have a business, you didnt build that. Someone did that for you."
"If you have a business, you didnt build that [physical building]. Someone else made that happen."Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Why would he go from talking about people working together to make a business, to 'the government does everything for you'? That doesn't even make sense. I keep watching that video over and over and I can't fathom how he meant anything other than what he said. If you're going strictly by "If you have a business, you didn't build that" without taking into consideration the words he said before that and after that, then I see how you can come to that conclusion.
The one line encapsulates everything the conservative camp tries to use against Obama. It's also a really easy way to take a headshot at the president.
"...The point is, when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together"
I think that would be a fair summary.Quote:
Originally Posted by .blank cd
He had a poor choice of words, but any logical person can determine what he was saying.
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I have already posted this fact, and I don't believe that our government is worse than it has been before. There is always a tendency for people throughout history to think things are worse in their time than before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15
One problem is with complacency of the people. But that's always been a problem. Another problem is the way campaigns are monitored... and another with how votes are counted. But these problems have always been in our system. The problem isn't with our time.
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That is word for word how he summed up what he said in the video. Two sentences after he said what he said Lol. Thats why I keep saying, context is key.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdallas
you're right, has nothing to do with highest tax increase, spending and debt in american history. It's in all in our heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdallas
Do you have a source on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinfix_15