Screw the Government

[-EnVus-]

I say if the Government is gonna take away Government checks and make cuts to SSI and Medicare while jacking up Taxes. Then i hope they do other big cuts that make us all go Broke. At least it would be fair for everyone to be broke an the Dollar worthless. Maybe then we can all start over and do it right the next time around. I wanna see all them senators and Obama getting their hands dirty to survive.
We all should have to that is the only fair way for us to continue and do away with upper,lower middle class bullshit...We are all one class just getting by and learning to make it like in the old days.

[ek forever]

Communist Manifesto much? What would the government "cut" that would make everyone broke?

[Vteckidd]

I think both sides are at fault.

Democrats need to wake up and realize we have a SPENDING problem not a revenue problem. Raising taxes and causing class warfare solves nothing. Cuts and reform HAVE TO BE made to SS and Medicare/caid. That doesn't mean seniors are going to die in the streets. Stop the Bs.

Republicans need to be open to closing loop holes on businesses evading taxes like GE. I'm with them we need to not raise income taxes at all, but closing come corporate loop holes needs to be on the table

I think the republicans need to give into a 1% national sales tax.

My .02

[Vteckidd]

Worry about Obamacare after 2012 .

Obama needs to show some leadership, and not be giving vague speeches. He's done nothing on this issue.

[Elbow]

Here is an idea. Stop relying on ANYTHING from the government, do your own work, make your own money, don't give a crap about anything else.

[Vteckidd]

Here is an idea. Stop relying on ANYTHING from the government, do your own work, make your own money, don't give a crap about anything else.

youre asking them to undue 60 years of government involvement. Its not going to happen. Do you realize what would happen if they abolished all social programs? you would have anarchy.

I believe they need to send a message to the American People that they are serious about tackling these issues. What they are talking about isnt even DRASTIC. They want to CUT spending by as much as they want to borrow. Thats not even tackling the existing 14+trillion dollars in debt.

Even the republicans get what they want, our debt will still hold at 14.X Trillion dollars, and CLIMB because we pay about 35 BILLION in interest and that will continue to climb. So :

EVEN IF THE REPUBLICANS GET WHAT THEY WANT, our debt will still stay at the current number, and continue to climb monthly with interest accruing.

The Democrats want to ADD to the debt as they really only wanna cut 1.5-2 trillion, AND RAISE TAXES, which they havent really said by how much. But even if they tax the WEALTHIEST of individuals earning more than $200,000 at a 100 percent marginal rate–and we confiscated their passports so they could not flee–the take would come to $1.27 trillion, or just 77 percent of this year’s deficit(1.6 trillion).

So clearly, they wont tax people over $200,000 100%, and even if they did it amounts to barely a DENT in THIS YEARS federal deficit.

The hole is so deep, something major has to be done.

I think the way to go is institute a flat 1% sales tax. Many people dont even pay taxes in the country, a 1% national sales tax would force EVERYONE to participate, illegals, poor, etc. pull out of iraq or seize their oil fields until they pay us back the almost 1 trillion in war costs we have spent. I think we pull out of afghanistan and institute a hard line closed borders policy.

drop corporate tax rates, but also close loop holes that lets GE park 7 billion dollars overseas without paying taxes.

Legalize marijuana and offer incentives for start up businesses. Tax it at 30%, make billions on an industry that is less destructive than alcohol.

that would be a start

[-EnVus-]

My mother is Disabled from an accident on the job 15 years ago. She relies on her assistance from the Government to survive. The cost of Meds these days alone take most of her Money.
If they start making cuts she may not afford all her Meds that she is required to stay healthy or live. So many people like her and the elderly rely so much on these programs.
Yes if it wasn't for them they would be screwed either way but thats why we help people. This would be almost like the Government saying "Hey we have $$ issues so we can't help you no more".
Our country is broke cause our Presidents and Government don't know how to spend nor manage Money. They make and produce all this damn money we just use it yet they can't control it.
Stop fuckin outsourcing jobs stop bailing out other poor money managing countries going broke. Stop going around the world spending Billions playing referee or Hero for countries that hate us.
The point is OUR money Hungary government would rather make us hurt than accept a compromise anyways.

[Vteckidd]

My mother is Disabled from an accident on the job 15 years ago. She relies on her assistance from the Government to survive. The cost of Meds these days alone take most of her Money.
If they start making cuts she may not afford all her Meds that she is required to stay healthy or live. So many people like her and the elderly rely so much on these programs.
Yes if it wasn't for them they would be screwed either way but thats why we help people. This would be almost like the Government saying "Hey we have $$ issues so we can't help you no more".

IMO the problem with the system is for every 1 person that deserves help, there is 1 that blatantly abuses the system. Im sorry, that is a tough choice, but i will tell you this, if we do nothing , your mother will have NOTHING instead of less of something. that is a fact.

There are thousands of stories like yours, but that doesnt change the fact that really touch decisions needs to be made. It is unsustainable, period.

Our country is broke cause our Presidents and Government don't know how to spend nor manage Money. They make and produce all this damn money we just use it yet they can't control it.
Stop fuckin outsourcing jobs stop bailing out other poor money managing countries going broke. Stop going around the world spending Billions playing referee or Hero for countries that hate us.
The point is OUR money Hungry government would rather make us hurt than accept a compromise anyways.

Then you have to change who is in power, and by and large we wont do it. Im sorry left or right, Obama is an establishment democrat and the republicans are establishment right wing people as well.

They are only there to get elected more, and stay in power. Period. The only way to break that cycle is vote them all out. but that will never happen.

Instead, you need to recognize that hard and touch choices need to be made, and people are going to suffer. Maybe not your mom, but someone else will. I dont know what else to tell you, but the current path is not going to work.

So they need to prob do a little of everything, raise taxes without hurting the economy, stop spending, severely cut social programs or find ways to make them more efficient, end the wars because at this point we need to take care of ourselves more than anything else.

End all foreign aid

[ek forever]

With lower taxes your mother would be able to get financial assistance from the people who should give it to her, friends, family, etc.

Can't stand this nonsense about corporations who pay no taxes paying their "fair share."

Can someone tell me where GE and O'Charley's, Applebee's, Target, etc, where do they get the money with which they pay these taxes?

Businesses write the check, we give them the money. It's our money paying the businesses tax bill. It's just politically popular for them to write the check instead of the consumer. Not to mention that most of the tax burden comes out of the laborers pocket. A little more than half of all the taxes placed on businesses comes out of the laborers pocket in the form of lower wages.

[BanginJimmy]

There are so many things that need to be done to fix our debt issues it isnt even feasible to lay it out. I will point out several key issues that need to be a MAJOR part of any plan to fix this problem.


1. Scrap the entire tax system and replace it with something far simpler. I dont care if its the fair tax or a flat tax. Something HAS to be done. If I remember correctly Americans spent about $450B last year just to comply with the tax code.

2. Medicare and SS have to institute means testing. If you have other income, SS pays out an amount that totals out to 150% of SS benefits for your age bracket. Unfortunately, if you are smart enough to save for retirement, you are punished by not receiving the entire benefit you paid for.

3. Massive increase in the investigative arm of SS and medicare/medicaid. A 1 time expenditure of about $10B for new investigators and technology and maybe $1B a year for administrative costs (salary and upkeep) will net 20-30B a year in savings from stopping fraud.

4. Complete replacement of the DoD acquisitions system and practices. It is a massive drain on a significant part of the overall DoD budget. A big part of this is the DoD likes to make changes to a weapons system half way through development, the result of which is cost overruns and delayed deliveries on a pandemic scale.

5. Sealing of the SS and medicare trusts from congressional fingers. Those 2 programs would be self sufficient for a long time to come if Congress would have kept their fingers out of the cookie jar. Because of Congressional 'borrowing' these 2 programs suck up nearly 40% of all tax receipts the feds take in.

6. Balanced budget amendment. 49 states require a balanced budget, its time the feds join them. Ratify the Amendment in 2012 and require the books to be even by 2022. I think a decade is long enough to figure it out.

7. MASSIVE cuts to federal agencies. Dept of Ed can completely go away, thats more than 100B saved right there. It is an absolutely useless bureaucracy that has done nothing to further education in this country. HHS, Homeland Security, and EPA could also use a bit of a haircut. We could completely dump the useless TSA.

8. A tax amnesty period. Anyone that owes more than 10k in back taxes can come forward and settle up for 10% of what they actually owe and the slate is wiped clean. Anyone that owes under 10k pays a flat 'fine' of 1k or their balance, whichever is less.

9. Line by line auditing of every federal agency and dept. Any program that is not needed gets a haircut or is eliminated, every redundant job is cut, and every overlapping bureaucracy is reigned in.

10. Sell off excess, unused federal lands and properties.


I may come back to this tomorrow and add more.

[BanginJimmy]

With lower taxes your mother would be able to get financial assistance from the people who should give it to her, friends, family, etc.

Can't stand this nonsense about corporations who pay no taxes paying their "fair share."

Can someone tell me where GE and O'Charley's, Applebee's, Target, etc, where do they get the money with which they pay these taxes?

Businesses write the check, we give them the money. It's our money paying the businesses tax bill. It's just politically popular for them to write the check instead of the consumer. Not to mention that most of the tax burden comes out of the laborers pocket. A little more than half of all the taxes placed on businesses comes out of the laborers pocket in the form of lower wages.

Exactly. I would have no problems with US based companies paying no income taxes on US profits. Who knows, it may even lower prices to the consumer. Especially in the manufacturing industry, any taxes paid by the company are simply passed on to retailers, who then pass them on to the consumer. Raising taxes does nothing more than raise the cost to consumers.

[-EnVus-]

I will say this im almost 80% sure they will reach an agreement but its only going to be a short time one thats non effective on shit. They will make it sound like it is and build the peoples hopes up then after a few weeks it will appear nothing changed. How does a poor man make money if he can't borrow or take handouts And he can't find work cause jobs are non existent.
The US is like that poor man just screwed till life deals him his ending.

[ek forever]

The democrats knew this shit was coming for years. Why didn't they raise the debt ceiling while they had a supermajority in the house, senate, and control of the presidency?

The president has kicked the debt can down the road. He's ran up $4 Trillion on while he was presiding over a democratic congress. Since democrats gained control in 2006 the debt has risen $5.1 Trillion. 33% of the nations debt owed by the public and owed to foreign investors built in the last 5 years and by a 100% democratic controlled government. Here's what the presidents debt plan has consisted of since he got into office:

- Ignored the debt problem for two years by kicking the can to a commission.

- Promptly ignored the commission’s December 2010 report.

- Delivered a State of the Union address in January that didn’t even mention the debt until 35 minutes in.

- Delivered in February a budget so embarrassing — it actually increased the deficit — that the Democratic-controlled Senate rejected it 97–0.

- Took a budget mulligan with his April 13 debt-plan speech. Asked in Congress how this new “budget framework” would affect the actual federal budget, Congressional Budget Office director Doug Elmendorf replied with a devastating “We don’t estimate speeches.” You can’t assign numbers to air.

Now all of a sudden Obama is a super-hero cape wearing budget hawk?

Peoples memories are short.

[Vteckidd]

The democrats knew this shit was coming for years. Why didn't they raise the debt ceiling while they had a supermajority in the house, senate, and control of the presidency?

The president has kicked the debt can down the road. He's ran up $4 Trillion on while he was presiding over a democratic congress. Since democrats gained control in 2006 the debt has risen $5.1 Trillion. 33% of the nations debt owed by the public and owed to foreign investors built in the last 5 years and by a 100% democratic controlled government. Here's what the presidents debt plan has consisted of since he got into office:

- Ignored the debt problem for two years by kicking the can to a commission.

- Promptly ignored the commission’s December 2010 report.

- Delivered a State of the Union address in January that didn’t even mention the debt until 35 minutes in.

- Delivered in February a budget so embarrassing — it actually increased the deficit — that the Democratic-controlled Senate rejected it 97–0.

- Took a budget mulligan with his April 13 debt-plan speech. Asked in Congress how this new “budget framework” would affect the actual federal budget, Congressional Budget Office director Doug Elmendorf replied with a devastating “We don’t estimate speeches.” You can’t assign numbers to air.

Now all of a sudden Obama is a super-hero cape wearing budget hawk?

Peoples memories are short.

that is probably the single most aggravating thing about all this. The GOP is getting hammered about stalling the debt talks and is making Obama look like hes some budget hawk. Its laughable.

Hopefully the voters arent this stupid and dont believe the Mainstream Media. I do not care what happens deal wise, this is SOLELY OBAMAs fault. If he got his way he would increase the debt limit with no cuts.

[bu villain]

that is probably the single most aggravating thing about all this. The GOP is getting hammered about stalling the debt talks and is making Obama look like hes some budget hawk. Its laughable.

Hopefully the voters arent this stupid and dont believe the Mainstream Media. I do not care what happens deal wise, this is SOLELY OBAMAs fault. If he got his way he would increase the debt limit with no cuts.

Just to give you a different perspective on why the GOP is being hammered on this. Obama is offering 2B in spending cuts and agreed to not raising taxes (only closing loopholes which many republicans also said should be done). Obama is making concessions that the GOP is asking for. What concessions are the GOP willing to make? None as far as I can tell. No one thinks Obama is a budget hawk but they do see him as someone who is willing to compromise unlike the GOP leaders.

Secondly, I don't see how this is SOLELY Obama's fault. Budgets are the job of the House which is Republican controlled. And everyone should be able to agree that both parties contributed plenty to the debt we are in. Yes Obama has a large role to play but this is the House's job.

[ek forever]

You realize the government spends $5-7 Billion per day right? $2 Billion in spending cuts is a joke. It IS mostly democrats fault. There hasn't been a budget made in over 800 days, republicans have been in control of one house of congress for 200 or so days. The presidents own budget proposal failed 97-0 in a democratic controlled senate.

GOP leaders were elected on a no new taxes platform.

Here's a graph you should consider very carefully:



Tax revenues are much more closely tied to the economy and not the tax rates. This is why "revenue measures" are a load of horse shit.

[Vteckidd]

Just to give you a different perspective on why the GOP is being hammered on this. Obama is offering 2B in spending cuts and agreed to not raising taxes (only closing loopholes which many republicans also said should be done). Obama is making concessions that the GOP is asking for. What concessions are the GOP willing to make? None as far as I can tell. No one thinks Obama is a budget hawk but they do see him as someone who is willing to compromise unlike the GOP leaders.

Secondly, I don't see how this is SOLELY Obama's fault. Budgets are the job of the House which is Republican controlled. And everyone should be able to agree that both parties contributed plenty to the debt we are in. Yes Obama has a large role to play but this is the House's job.

Keep drinking the kool aid.

What are these 2 trillion in cuts exactly? Show me. republicans should concede the loop holes, but not at the behest of Obama promising 2 trillion in cuts 20 years from now
Obama hasn't had a budget in 3 years, why should he get a pass? The democrats could have addressed this when they had super majorities, they didn't.

So this is solely Obamas inaction, not the republicans.

[ek forever]

A lot of these "cuts" being proposed by repubics are not cuts anyway. Much of them are reduced spending, and not cuts. The McConnel plan passes House of Representative constitutional powers on to the president. That alone is scary. It's probably the closest to being a dictatorship the country has ever been. Giving federal power from one branch to another even temporarily only sets a precedent for it to happen again in the future.

Republicans need to pass a bill in the house that says: "We're going to pass a stop gap measure that funds defense, medicare, social security, medicaid, and service on the debt. The rest we'll let the president and the Democratic controlled Senate roll over for a 6 or so months till we hit the debt ceiling again."

Slap a stamp on it, send it, go.

And one more time, 800 days we haven't had a budget. only 240 of those days republicans have been in power of one half of congress. The other 560 days democrats had super-majorities in which they new these deadlines were coming.

Are republicans doing enough? No, there's too many mainstream/RINO republicans that are dodging the 3rd rails that refuse to act. Too many of the leadership positions in congress are held by weak-stomached republicans who don't have the gall to put their foot down like Schumer, Hoyer, Frank, etc.

Democrats need to read a book, Republicans need to grow a pair. It's a big problem.

[bu villain]

You realize the government spends $5-7 Billion per day right? $2 Billion in spending cuts is a joke. It IS mostly democrats fault. There hasn't been a budget made in over 800 days, republicans have been in control of one house of congress for 200 or so days. The presidents own budget proposal failed 97-0 in a democratic controlled senate.

GOP leaders were elected on a no new taxes platform.

All of that is irrelevant to my point which is that people want a compromise. They see the Dems as willing to make concessions to the GOP but they don't see the GOP making any to the Dems. It's that simple.

Here's a graph you should consider very carefully:



Tax revenues are much more closely tied to the economy and not the tax rates. This is why "revenue measures" are a load of horse shit.

I don't know why I need to consider this for. I never argued increased taxes = increased revenue. By the way, couldn't this graph also be used to argue that lowering taxes will also not help raise revenue either?

[bu villain]

Keep drinking the kool aid.

What are these 2 trillion in cuts exactly? Show me. republicans should concede the loop holes, but not at the behest of Obama promising 2 trillion in cuts 20 years from now

What kool aid? I only said Obama is willing to make concessions to the Republicans and the Republicans won't reciprocate and that's why people are angry at them. Both sides think they are right, it doesn't mean they don't have to work together.

Obama hasn't had a budget in 3 years, why should he get a pass? The democrats could have addressed this when they had super majorities, they didn't.

So this is solely Obamas inaction, not the republicans.

Because the President doesn't make the budget, the House does. You wan't to be upset at the congressional Democrats, that I can understand but to make everything that happens in government the fault of the president is not right. He is not a dictator.

[-EnVus-]

Obama, claims he is for the people and he will not touch medicare or the safety nets that its for our future generations.
He said "I am turning 50 in a few weeks and myself will be starting aarp" so i will know what its like......


Well we will see how long this last

[BanginJimmy]

What kool aid? I only said Obama is willing to make concessions to the Republicans and the Republicans won't reciprocate and that's why people are angry at them. Both sides think they are right, it doesn't mean they don't have to work together.

Obama hasnt made a single meaningful concession. Everything he is proposing is for outlying years where all those 'cuts' could simply be ignored. He isnt alone in this though. This has been a trademark of American politics for decades.

Because the President doesn't make the budget, the House does.

Obama has proposed budget frame works in his 3 full budget years (FY10, 11, 12). Its the Senate Dems that havent even proposed a budget, not to mention debate, vote, or pass one, in over 800 days. They are required by law to do so. Even though its not an official budget, it is a budget blueprint.

but to make everything that happens in government the fault of the president is not right. He is not a dictator.

If this is the case, then 1/3 of all the debt assigned to Bush was not his fault. All of those funds were passed in the last 2 years of the Bush Admin with dems holding both houses of Congress.

[ek forever]

You clearly aren't up to date on some pretty simple law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_...ng_Act_of_1921

The President, according to the Budget and Accounting Act of 1921, must submit a budget to Congress each year. In its current form, federal budget legislation law (31 U.S.C. 1105(a)) specifies that the President submit a budget between the first Monday in January and the first Monday in February.

[ek forever]

Obama, claims he is for the people and he will not touch medicare or the safety nets that its for our future generations.
He said "I am turning 50 in a few weeks and myself will be starting aarp" so i will know what its like......


Well we will see how long this last

Why not use AMAC? Why AARP?

[-EnVus-]

Why not use AMAC? Why AARP?

Idk call Him and ask lol

[ek forever]

Idk call Him and ask lol

AMAC is very much like AARP, but not nearly as powerful an interest group and isn't ran by a bunch of statists.

[Vteckidd]

What kool aid? I only said Obama is willing to make concessions to the Republicans and the Republicans won't reciprocate and that's why people are angry at them. Both sides think they are right, it doesn't mean they don't have to work together.

No he isnt. You would have to really look at the math, and i dont have time to walk anyone through it. His "concessions" are not really concessions. He wants to give them 2 trillion in CUTS in exchange for raising the income tax rate NOW. He also wants to get rid of the tax loopholes (which im in favor of). But he wont say WHEN the cuts will come. THere has been no commitment to any cuts what so ever in the near future. SO its not really a compromise more like a hollow promise to maybe do something 10 years from now......

Because the President doesn't make the budget, the House does. You wan't to be upset at the congressional Democrats, that I can understand but to make everything that happens in government the fault of the president is not right. He is not a dictator.

That is technically correct, but i believe Bush W always put forth a plan the congress voted on and passed so its not neccesary. The president could have been involved years , months ago. The job is for everyone to be engaged.

Furthermore if what you say is true, then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE the democrats had COMPLETE control of congress in 2006, then i NEVER want to hear ANY BLAME assessed to George W Bush for his last 2-3 fiscal budgets. Congress and the Dems can own that. You cant have it both ways :P

What Obama has done is what he has ALWAYS done which is sit back, let congress fight it out, he stays out of it (while blaming the republicans off handed) then tries to act like hes not the same as them. Thats not showing leadership IMO

both sides are WRONG and god help the republicans if they pass some bullshit mconnel plan.

[bu villain]

As I said before, if you are angry at congressional Democrats I understand. I also stated that the President DOES have some responsibility here, just not SOLE responsibility. I don't know why there seems to be an assumption that I don't think Democrats are to blame for anything related to the fiscal crisis and that only the GOP is? Or that Bush is more responsible for his spending than Obama (I never even mentioned Bush). I just think its damaging and innacurate when people speak as if everything is so black and white when these issues are filled with messiness and shades of grey. There are more than 2 sides to political arguments.

Whether or not you think the concessions are too weak, at least some are being made. Can anyone tell me what deal the GOP proposes that gives the Dems something they want in return for something the GOP wants.

Additionally, can someone explain to me why there needs to be any deal at all. Why can't we just have a straight up or down vote on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling? Can't we argue about taxes and spending cuts for the budget separately without calling our ability to live up to our previously agreed upon obligations in to question? Just seems like playing with fire.

[BanginJimmy]

The reason for no straight up or down vote is because neither side wants to be on record with a vote like that. Voting on record is what is preventing the Senate from even making a budget proposal.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Vteckidd]

Whether or not you think the concessions are too weak, at least some are being made. Can anyone tell me what deal the GOP proposes that gives the Dems something they want in return for something the GOP wants.

Well the dems have had unlimited spending in the last 3 years. The GOP isnt in any position to give any concessions. The economy has gotten WORSE and the debt is higher. The dems want to continue spending and raising taxes which hasnt worked YET. So the GOP is basically saying we did it your way for 3 years, its obviously not working, lets at least not spend anymore, and raising taxes will just hurt jobs even more.

I do agree that the GOP needs to agree to fix the tax loopholes and SOON, not a year from now.

Additionally, can someone explain to me why there needs to be any deal at all. Why can't we just have a straight up or down vote on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling? Can't we argue about taxes and spending cuts for the budget separately without calling our ability to live up to our previously agreed upon obligations in to question? Just seems like playing with fire.

The dems would like a up or down vote they could win. but they cant, because the GOP controls the house.

The GOP wont do a up or down vote because they want to use this as leverage to cut spending. They know obama needs to borrow more money , and by controlling 50% of the entity that can give him that, they are using it as leverage to get what they want, spending cuts.

[ek forever]

Indeed, I too am tired of hearing the blame placed on republicans when Democrats had control of the purse strings since 2006.

Debt in October of 2005 The US Treasury Department reports that the US National Debt increased $553.7 Billion in fiscal 2005 (ends Sept 30, 2005).

The total National Debt is now $7,932,709,661,723.50

So when Democrats took both houses of congress then the debt was probably a little more than $8 Trillion.

It's now $14.4 Trillion and that's ~$6 Trillion in a 5 year period that Democrats had almost all the control over.

[-EnVus-]

BERLIN/BRUSSELS (Gernot Heller and Luke Baker) - The European Central Bank is willing to let Greece slip into temporary default as part of a crisis response that would involve a bond buyback but no new tax on banks, EU sources said on Thursday.

Must be nice to have such giving neighbors to let you go Temporarily broke lol

[ek forever]

Must be nice to have such giving neighbors to let you go Temporarily broke lol

Sometimes letting crack heads hit rock bottom is the best decision. Instead of giving them more crack/money.

[-EnVus-]

Sometimes letting crack heads hit rock bottom is the best decision. Instead of giving them more crack/money.

Good example but this crack head had to many chances and just close to dying from Withdraws

[ek forever]

Good example but this crack head had to many chances and just close to dying from Withdraws

This is where Darwin comes in and the species incapable of dealing with its environment dies off.

[EJdm]

That is why i careless about the government BS...i work on a daily, save what i can and wait for the world to end...

[bu villain]

Well the dems have had unlimited spending in the last 3 years. The GOP isnt in any position to give any concessions. The economy has gotten WORSE and the debt is higher. The dems want to continue spending and raising taxes which hasnt worked YET. So the GOP is basically saying we did it your way for 3 years, its obviously not working, lets at least not spend anymore, and raising taxes will just hurt jobs even more.

And if the American people agree with you then those Democrats will get voted out in their next election. But until that happens, we still need a working government, not gridlock. If the GOP is prepared to be held accountable if they debt ceiling is not raised, then by all means they should continue the way they are going.

The dems would like a up or down vote they could win. but they cant, because the GOP controls the house.

The GOP wont do a up or down vote because they want to use this as leverage to cut spending. They know obama needs to borrow more money , and by controlling 50% of the entity that can give him that, they are using it as leverage to get what they want, spending cuts.

Are you saying a majority of the GOP doesn't want to raise the debt ceiling? Because if they do want it raised, they are saying they will vote against their own goal (raise the debt ceiling) just to try to and get more of what they want (spending cuts). That seems both disengenuous and unethical to me. If they truly do not want the debt ceiling raised then I understand their tactics even if I don't agree with that position.

[-EnVus-]

Boehner, is a duck and dodge Bitch !!

[ek forever]

And if the American people agree with you then those Democrats will get voted out in their next election. But until that happens, we still need a working government, not gridlock. If the GOP is prepared to be held accountable if they debt ceiling is not raised, then by all means they should continue the way they are going.

Apparently you missed the last election. That and haven't looked at polling numbers for congressional approval and generic ballots.

Last November was the biggest republican house gain in ~70 years. It is pretty obvious the American people aren't terribly pleased with the Democrats. Not to mention there weren't many democratic seats up for re-election in the senate compared to republican seats.

Also, there is redistricting being done with a sweeping tide of republican state legislatures. Many pollsters and analysts think that republicans will gain 30-50 seats in the house from redistricting alone.

Boehner, is a duck and dodge Bitch !!

Which politician isn't? The president is a key example of someone who ducks and dodges. The guy didn't address the oil spill in the gulf for 41 days, he played golf 3-4 times before he gave an address to the media about the oil spill. The guy has ignored the deficit, he kicked the can to a commission, proposed a budget with a deficit so large it failed in democratically controlled senate 97-0 talked about it a lot and didn't do anything for going on 3 years now.

[bu villain]

Apparently you missed the last election. That and haven't looked at polling numbers for congressional approval and generic ballots.

Last November was the biggest republican house gain in ~70 years. It is pretty obvious the American people aren't terribly pleased with the Democrats. Not to mention there weren't many democratic seats up for re-election in the senate compared to republican seats.

As I said, if they are fine with the consequences, then the GOP shouldn't vote for a debt ceiling increase. But if you think all the GOP voters are against the debt ceiling increase you are simply misinformed.

And on a general note, those new representatives get to vote how they like but it doesn't mean the rest of the government must bend to their will. The newly elected aren't any more special than those that were elected before them and a Democratic congressman from California doesn't represent the republicans of Ohio, so why would he vote based on what people in Ohio think? You're oversimplifying how our government works. It's not winner takes all.