This discussion really made me think of the debates that go on here sometimes. We are all guilty at some point or another.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=128490874
Interesting Discussion on Beliefs
This discussion really made me think of the debates that go on here sometimes. We are all guilty at some point or another.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=128490874
HIGHLY partisan piece of 'reporting'.
Oh, and increased illegal immigration is in itself proof of increased crime.
I'm not sure why you think this is so partisan. The topic is apolitcal. It is about how many peoples politcal views are not based on facts. It doesn't accuse republicans or democrats as being worse than the other. Conversely, it states:
"And all of us, liberals and conservatives, you know, have some beliefs that aren't true"
"And I mean, this is because we have a Democratic president now, and, you know, there were similar things going on with George W. Bush"
It does not endorse any view on any particular policy. I challenge you to find anything that says what should be done about any political issue. You mentioned illegal immigration meaning an increase of crime but that's not what the article stated. It said:
"So some of the people in the case of Dana's article who, you know, are committed to the belief that, you know, immigration has increased crime"
It does not mention "illegal immigration" just "immigration". Even if you want to argue that "illegal immigration" is implied, the claims that are being discussed are about increases in violence, kidnappings. and drugs. No where in the article does it say anything about how illegal immigration should be handled.
It is partisan by the topics it uses as examples and the way it presents them. They went to great lengths to find any inaccuracies in Brewer's statements, but didnt mention any coming from the left even though the ones coming from congress are far more controversial.
More pointedly, by simply using the term "immigration" instead of the more accurate "illegal immigration" they are changing the context of the entire debate.
They used quotes from McCain and Brewer because they are the primary political figures from Arizona involved with the Arizona law. Besides, the point is that the statements made are verifiably false or at least not supported by what can be proven, so why aren't we discussing that rather than what political party they belong to?Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Except this isn't a debate about illegal immigration. It is about beliefs that are not based on facts and often despite facts. Immigration was only one example. They also discuss religious beliefs, 9/11 conspiracy theory, FEMA camps, nuclear power, and others.
Name a single politician that ever tells the truth. Hell, Obama got a trillion dollar takeover of our health care passed without speaking a word of truth. Where is your disgust over that?
And it is partisan in nature. It avoids the hottest topics that would look bad for dems and focuses on the hottest topic that reflects the GOP in a negative light. Dont just listen to the words, listen to what they are implying also.
This thread is not about immigration or healthcare. It's not about Obama or McCain. What I wanted to do was have a discussion on how we can have a more open and honest debate on policital issues. How can we help people to base their beliefs off facts? How do we mitigate the effects of politicians who lie or are simply misinformed?
Since you seem to feel so strongly about Obama's health care bill, we can use that as an example if you like. If support from the bill came from deception or selectively ignored facts, how can we fight that?
I believe they are implying that many people's beliefs are not based on fact... and that's what I would like to discuss.
There is an entire thread or 6 about the health care bill and the obvious lies that were being propagated. You will find that people that drool over Obama and massive govt want a single payer system with the govt making all of your heath care decisions for you. Then you have people that actually enjoy having access to the best health care in the world and dont want govt to screw it up. If you want a list of all the lies you will have a go through those threads again but there were at least a dozen or so major ones. The couple off the top of my head are being able to keep your current insurance if you like it and that the bill will bring costs down.
You never will, especially when it comes to politics. Today's political world is so partisan that both sides are attacking the other side for no better reason than they are a republican/democrat. The issue doesnt matter, what matters is left or right.
So your stance is give up? What is the point of all the debate on here then?
I havent given up but if you want an example look at the back and forth me and Blender have had in several threads. His first and only real opinion is a childish attack on anyone that doesnt drool over a picture of Obama or is in any way right of far left field. You simply cannot reason with that.
Perhaps he would be more open to your point of view if you didn't insult him back (even if it is warranted). Additionally using hyperbole such as "His first and only real opinion is a childish attack on anyone that doesnt drool over a picture of Obama or is in any way right of far left field" probably isn't going to make him more open to your ideas. Many times both of you all seem like you just want to "win" the debate rather than actually learn from each other.
I think showing a little more respect for others (this applies to everyone) would really help the discussions and would lead to more informed conclusions.
You are probably correct now, but when he first started posting here I like to think that i was above his childish name calling. Now, I just prefer to play the little games with him. You can look back any post he has ever made though, you will not find a single one that he isnt attacking someone on the right.
Yes I agree he certainly can be pretty inflammatory (even when I agree with him). Both of you make good points although you come from very different perspectives. However, it really inhibits a persons arguments if you have to filter out all the attacks and hyperbole to get to them. I guess a lot of people enjoy the personal drama but I much prefer debates based solely on logical and thoughtful argument. Otherwise I could just go read the whoreslounge.
In the end I know I am probably asking too much from a political subsection of a car forum but ironically, its worse elsewhere if you read the comments of most of the major news sites.
it's NPR.
It's partisan.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote