John McCain says Faisal Shhazad shouldn't get miranda rights.

[Total_Blender]

So what do you all think of the Faisal Shahzad situation? Some on the right like Mayor McCheese are suggesting that he shouldn't get Miranda rights. But he is apparently an American citizen. I think that even though he did do something pretty despicable, if we strip him of his rights to due process and/or use torture to interrogate him, it sets a dangerous precedent for the future.

Also, it doesn't seem to me like he is connected with Al Qaeda. His "bomb" was little more than some M-80's strapped to propane tanks, and a box of fertilizer... he didn't even get the type of fertilizer that is used as an explosive. And even then such fertilizer requires diesel fuel to even be volatile and there was no diesel present. This guy is clearly an amateur, if he did have a terrorist/extremist background he would have known how to build a proper bomb. As good as these guys are at building IED's and car bombs, I don't think they would screw something like this up so royally.

Also, I think the authorities did a decent job of handling this, tracking him down through the VIN on the engine of the SUV and then stopping him at the airport. He was placed on the no-fly list as soon as they had his name, and he ended up not flying.

I think that if he is guilty, we can punish him pretty hard and still remain within the rule of law. I am fairly certain he can be tried for sedition or treason and both of those can carry the death penalty (not that I'm really for the death penalty but I'm sure you guys are).

[Firefightin_tC]

He's a American Citizen....he gets his rights.

D.C. Sniper got his rights read.

Tim McVeigh got his rights read.

He's not different. It took the authorities 53 hours to catch this guy....and I give muy props for catching him.

They'll throw the book at him and throw his ass underneath the jail.

[BanginJimmy]

American citizen who committed his act on American soil, he gets his rights.


On the flip side, I believe that he forfeits those rights if the investigation finds that he was acting under orders of a group such as Al Qeada.

[Total_Blender]

Wouldn't that be a dangerous precedent too though, that the government can take away your citizenship based on what groups you belong to? Suppose they decide the Tea Party or the NRA are terrorist groups, how would you all feel about that? Suppose they do try to take away his citizenship or deny his Miranda rights, he sues, and he walks on a technicality (not likely, but still )?

Some conservative groups are saying this incident is proof that we need profiling but I'm not convinced. The measures we have been taking (no fly list, restrictions on what you can bring on a plane, etc) have been against 9/11 style attacks. This guy sets up a car bomb and goes around that profile. He's an American citizen so he bypassed the profile of non-citizens from the Middle East. If we have a static profile of middle easterners, its only a matter of time before terrorist groups start using people from outside the profiles for their attacks (White-looking people, women, kids, etc)

[TIGERJC]

Wouldn't that be a dangerous precedent too though, that the government can take away your citizenship based on what groups you belong to? Suppose they decide the Tea Party or the NRA are terrorist groups, how would you all feel about that? Suppose they do try to take away his citizenship or deny his Miranda rights, he sues, and he walks on a technicality (not likely, but still )?

Some conservative groups are saying this incident is proof that we need profiling but I'm not convinced. The measures we have been taking (no fly list, restrictions on what you can bring on a plane, etc) have been against 9/11 style attacks. This guy sets up a car bomb and goes around that profile. He's an American citizen so he bypassed the profile of non-citizens from the Middle East. If we have a static profile of middle easterners, its only a matter of time before terrorist groups start using people from outside the profiles for their attacks (White-looking people, women, kids, etc)

Profiling is not the American way. Perfect example, Just look at the dc sniper incident where ppl were looking for a white man in a white van doing all the shooting. Anything can be done by anyone, and when you start to focus on one way, something will come the other way.

I do not support trampling on Americans rights for any reason

[BanginJimmy]

Profiling is not the American way.

Profiling is not the politically correct way, but it is a very useful tool when combined with other tools currently used by law enforcement.

Perfect example, Just look at the dc sniper incident where ppl were looking for a white man in a white van doing all the shooting. Anything can be done by anyone, and when you start to focus on one way, something will come the other way.

One thing a profile usually cannot do is to find a motive. DC Sniper didnt fit the profile because they assumed this was a serial murder case, not a terrorism case.

I do not support trampling on Americans rights for any reason

Either do I, but we all know that the govt will do whatever it wants to as long as they are allowed to. In this case though, it is looking like the suspect is acting under orders from foreign combatants. In cases such as this, I believe he should be treated as a combatant.

[TIGERJC]

Profiling is not the politically correct way, but it is a very useful tool when combined with other tools currently used by law enforcement.




One thing a profile usually cannot do is to find a motive. DC Sniper didnt fit the profile because they assumed this was a serial murder case, not a terrorism case.




Either do I, but we all know that the govt will do whatever it wants to as long as they are allowed to. In this case though, it is looking like the suspect is acting under orders from foreign combatants. In cases such as this, I believe he should be treated as a combatant.

no point in trying to discuss anything with you, you cant be conservative with a open mind

[BanginJimmy]

If we are going to take the stance of what could possibly happen, then I guess we need to get rid of police and military too. It is theoretically possible that they work together and stage a coup to take over the country.

[Vteckidd]

I think he should have his rights read to him. It is a terrorist act but if he has his citizenship then he should be subjected to normal criminal proceedings.

The only gray area (which Mccain is getting at) is if we read him his rights he can lawyer up and further "interrogation" can be hard to get other intel from him.

But thats a slipper slope, who decides who gets to lawyer up and who doesnt? where does the line get drawn? if youve visited a known terrorist website does that mean your automatically treated like an enemy combatant?

I think if you are a citizen you get read your rights, if you are not a citizen, throw them to the military.

IMO of course

[TIGERJC]

I think he should have his rights read to him. It is a terrorist act but if he has his citizenship then he should be subjected to normal criminal proceedings.

The only gray area (which Mccain is getting at) is if we read him his rights he can lawyer up and further "interrogation" can be hard to get other intel from him.

But thats a slipper slope, who decides who gets to lawyer up and who doesnt? where does the line get drawn? if youve visited a known terrorist website does that mean your automatically treated like an enemy combatant?

I think if you are a citizen you get read your rights, if you are not a citizen, throw them to the military.

IMO of course

Sounds like old McCain is keep going further right with his comment in order to win his upcoming election. The only time the Miranda rights should be suspended if a bomb threat is set to go off like in "24" where time is precious in order to save lives (but there must be strong evidence to suspect a eminent threat).

[Vteckidd]

Sounds like old McCain is keep going further right with his comment in order to win his upcoming election. The only time the Miranda rights should be suspended if a bomb threat is set to go off like in "24" where time is precious in order to save lives (but there must be strong evidence to suspect a eminent threat).

I agree. Mccain is moving way right

[BanginJimmy]

I agree. Mccain is moving way right

As do I. One of the reasons I never liked him was that his voting record seemed to be politically motivated. When he wasnt worried about r-election his voting record is very centric and in some cased leaning left. When election is looming he tends to be shift pretty far right.

[BanginJimmy]

what dont I have an open mind about?

[blaknoize]

wow, I replied wayyy out of order