We are officially screwed

[BanginJimmy]

The employer or businessman does not own that job. Maybe when he/she first started it and were part of every aspect of that company they are growing, but they are not the sole "owners" of whatever role you play. It may be labeled as a "benefit" but without you doing your "job" the business wouldn't function. Especially if all of US arent performing our functions for the business, then it wouldnt even exist as such a large corporation.

So if the employer doesnt own the job, who does? Just because he long longer performs the job doesnt mean that the job is no longer his to control. That control also extends to who currently does the job.

The same holds true from a personal perspective. Being raised in Southern Ohio I had the wonderful experience of just surviving. If you as a person and yall as a company are growing, why not treat the personnel as actual people, like Google or Apple? They are surely growing (not actually sure about Apple anymore) and many many many people wish they could work for a company that treats a person like a person and not an expendable number. "Benefits" breaks, wonderful working environment, great pay. They are a group of happy, well taken care of and amazing employees that "want" to keep their business growing. The business itself isn't growing without the help of its people, no pay cuts are needed and no outsourcing is needed because the employees generate that income for that business.

I've been in the same places growing up on the southside of chicago. Dead end job, no desire, or the grades, to go to college so I did the smart thing. I went into the military and learned a trade. That trade now has me well employed and digging myself out of my self imposed debt.

A company that treats its employees well will always prosper because those employees will do quality work. The company I work for also treats employees very well and they have prospered because of it.

Poverty is NOT a choice. I just so happen to be raised in an impoverished area. I didnt CHOSE to make $5.15 an hr and just make it by from paycheck to paycheck. Get the fuk outta here with that. I also didnt CHOSE to be educated in the failing school system of Southern Ohio. I even moved, on a thought to Atlanta to find a better area to try and work and made it no better for myself.

While you were here in Atlanta did you take advantage of HOPE and PEL and go to school? If eligible for the military out of HS, did you pursue that as a way to learn a trade and a decent living? Were you a good student and never got into trouble? There you go, I just rattled off 3 quick choices YOU made that directly affected your future earnings potential.

Also a very good example is my friend DJ who currently resides in Southern Ohio (Portsmouth, OH) he works 3 jobs (1 day on Sunday at Church which is $100 for organ playing) part-time at Hillview Retirement Homes making 7.10 an hr and part time at Lil Caesar's making 7.45 an hour working 55hrs a week. Strapped with College debt of 34k (dropped out, or failed out due to transportation issues) and can barely make his payments after paying for fuel, partial rent/utilities, driving a 1996 Toyota Camry with 268k on it. He was born in Akron, OH, raised in Portsmouth, OH and he is still currently trying to make it better for himself. Doesnt make enough to successfully move, doesnt have the education he needs to push his career along (in whatever he desires) although he has been trying and trying for the past 3yrs to get out of Portsmouth. You tell him that he decided he wants to be in poverty and wanted to remain there!

College debt can be forgiven if he can show he cannot pay even if he dropped out as long as its a legitimate reason and not just laziness (not saying your friend was lazy).


BTW, just his 1 job at lil caesars puts your friend over the poverty line for a single adult. Adding in the other 2 jobs has him making well over 30k a year before taxes and he wont pay much in taxes, I would guess about 5k at the high end.

[nelson9995]

Link the study because I guarantee you that study was the same one that meant all employees, included the ones such as regional vp's and executives who are making 6-7 figures. Of course with redistribution of wealth, the bottom end of the curve always looks so much nicer. The point is though, are people like the stockers and cashiers really doing a job thats worth 26$/hour? Yeah fucking right. Are the executives doing a job thats worth far more than 26$/hour. Yes. Welcome to pay grade. The human capital of a stocker compared to an executive is miniscule.

i did not say they should get paid $26 an hour. Of course they don't do the job to get paid that. But don't come here and tell me you can survive with $7.50 an hour even if you are a single adult.

[nelson9995]

BanginJimmy- I know what the issue with you is; you are a die hard Republican. All you think about is profit profit profit. I would hate for you to be my manager and everyone else which is not a good thing! I'm done trying to discuss this with you; you republicans will never understand.

[blaknoize]

I didn't pursue the Hope when I was in GA. I had to be a resident to qualify didn't I? (I never changed my status or tags) I also didn't want to pursue a military career (as u know I dont like this war) and I also wanted to stall as long as I could before doing something like that. I'm doing fine myself. I used my customer service skills and the little bit of computer related experience to gain employment with JP Morgan Chase, I'm fine just have no actual education. I failed out myself thanks to my old car and distance from school. UGH!! I'm in Columbus and made it out of there with Bushes stimulus check to get me my first apartment. Yes good student and so on.

I MADE myself go somewhere else because I looked and wondered and wanted things. So I just moved, lucked out a few times, ESPECIALLY with my employer in GA. TALK ABOUT LUCKED OUT. The hiring manager happen to be from Portsmouth, OH and HAPPEN to be the family friend of a classmate I graduated with and he just so happen to call him the day before my interview and my name came up for whatever reason. My interview wasnt even an interview, he hired me because he knew where I came from and how terrible it was.

I have a correction to my statement about DJ's status. He works 20hrs a week between both jobs and still does the church thing of $100 a week. I believe my argument is void.

[blaknoize]

In reference Verik:

it was a figure of speech regarding the 26 an hr. I know one employee who works for Kroger who makes 21 an hr as a cashier and a Stocker for that same Kroger who make $29.76 an hour. They of course have been with the company from the good-ol-days but they do get paid nicely and perform each other their functions to the best of their respective abilities. I make almost 20 an hr and dont do ANYTHING near as involved as either of them do.

Fit and finish and presentation of a store is just as important as a person who manages the firewall of a small business or preps PC's for deployment. Of course this is my "radical" view of things but that is what I believe we should be treated like. Obviously we don't seem to like out neighbors doing as good as us if at all possible. We don't want them to have a nicer home or prettier car or sexier wife than us. Shareholders, business owners, conglomerates and corporations alike do not want this either it seems, for its employees in one way or the other.

But again, thats my "radical" view of things because everyone is worried about themselves and not their community as a whole, like it used to be, like it still in (somewhat) in small towns of our nation, like it was where I grew up at. Most companies took great care of their employees back then, the neighborhoods were filled with that particular employers workers and the city knew what employees worked with who. My aunt just so happen to be one of those lucky employees, had a great health-care plan, and even greater... almost exorbitant pay and worked a set schedule, no OT (not required either) and made roughly 70k a year, has a pension, retired and is living well, helping her whole family out. She makes more than me as a retiree than I do working FT. This company also paid 90% of her medical bill when she fell ill, brought her back when she recovered after 5months of rehab and paid her 40% of her income while she was out. She worked for them her whole working life 29years and never wanted to leave or look outside for another place because she loved her place of work and it showed her the same respect.

[BanginJimmy]

BanginJimmy- I know what the issue with you is; you are a die hard Republican. All you think about is profit profit profit. I would hate for you to be my manager and everyone else which is not a good thing! I'm done trying to discuss this with you; you republicans will never understand.

Actually I am not a republican, but I am a fiscal conservative. I tend to lean more liberal on social issues.

Where did I ever say its only about profit? I have only said that profits drive a company to expand.

Considering you dont know me or anything about me, I dont really care that you wouldnt want to be managed by me.

[BanginJimmy]

In reference Verik:

it was a figure of speech regarding the 26 an hr. I know one employee who works for Kroger who makes 21 an hr as a cashier and a Stocker for that same Kroger who make $29.76 an hour.

I dont typically do this, but I am going to call BS on this, especially the stocker making nearly $30 an hour unless this is some type of special arrangement they have. I just cant see a stocker making $60k a year for hat is realisticly a 20k a year job. So yea, you are either giving half the story or just making this up.

[blaknoize]

I dont typically do this, but I am going to call BS on this, especially the stocker making nearly $30 an hour unless this is some type of special arrangement they have. I just cant see a stocker making $60k a year for hat is realisticly a 20k a year job. So yea, you are either giving half the story or just making this up.

I'll have to see if I can reach him. He's been working with Kroger for a little over 20yrs. Kroger store #655 in Atlanta. Unless I was lied to by him personally then I could be BS'ing but he trained me when I first started working there in 05. I mean, I made $9.10 an hr there as a Cashier and I only worked there for 3yrs with a starting salary of $6.85. It was under strong union control to. I got a raise every 6months and was brought back even after I got "fired" from a store I transferred to up north.

And not even stopping at him. I'll have to see if my old Stock Night worker "BIG Vaughn" still works there. He started at 40k, albeit he was the night lead. This store is unique because its location is in a very affluent part of Atlanta (for all I know) up the street from the CDC and Emory Healthcare and University also near lil 5points which has lots of Jews thriving in the area.

[BanginJimmy]

Being under union control means there is a prescribed pay scale. That means that anyone with equal time there will be making the same thing. Maybe as a lead or supervisor they are making that much, but outside of that Kroger simply could not be competitive with that kind of scale.

[trini_gsr]

i did not say they should get paid $26 an hour. Of course they don't do the job to get paid that. But don't come here and tell me you can survive with $7.50 an hour even if you are a single adult.

you can as a single adult because i did it - working at Target from 5am-1pm, 5 days a week, and going to school at Ga Tech (for electrical engineering) in the evenings. It was rough, i won't lie - and I had to cut back on a lot of things but I was able to stretch and make it work. I'd have liked to get paid more for the job but it was an easy job that anybody with a 9th grade education could do. And eventually I found a better paying job. But throughout that time, I knew I didn't want to live my life like that so I hustled hard and got my education so I wouldn't have to.

At the end of the day, you have to take personal responsibility for your situation. if you don't like the way things are in your life, CHANGE IT. this falls on you. It's one thing if you're sick, disabled, etc...but if you're able-bodied then there is nothing stopping you (in THIS country anyway) from going out and getting an education or making some moves to better your position. It's not your employer's responsibility to do this. The government's only job is to ensure we have a society/environment where folks have the chance to do exactly this. I believe in helping folks (with food stamps, welfare, etc) - but these programs are to get folks get back on their feet, not for them to live off of.

[nelson9995]

you can as a single adult because i did it - working at Target from 5am-1pm, 5 days a week, and going to school at Ga Tech (for electrical engineering) in the evenings. It was rough, i won't lie - and I had to cut back on a lot of things but I was able to stretch and make it work. I'd have liked to get paid more for the job but it was an easy job that anybody with a 9th grade education could do. And eventually I found a better paying job. But throughout that time, I knew I didn't want to live my life like that so I hustled hard and got my education so I wouldn't have to.

At the end of the day, you have to take personal responsibility for your situation. if you don't like the way things are in your life, CHANGE IT. this falls on you. It's one thing if you're sick, disabled, etc...but if you're able-bodied then there is nothing stopping you (in THIS country anyway) from going out and getting an education or making some moves to better your position. It's not your employer's responsibility to do this. The government's only job is to ensure we have a society/environment where folks have the chance to do exactly this. I believe in helping folks (with food stamps, welfare, etc) - but these programs are to get folks get back on their feet, not for them to live off of.

I agree with you. This is my point.

One thing, don't tell me you paid for food, car insurance, phone bill, water, gas, and all your necessities and rent making $7.50 an hour without any kind of help like student refunds. Please it's just too hard to believe.

[BanginJimmy]

I agree with you. This is my point.

One thing, don't tell me you paid for food, car insurance, phone bill, water, gas, and all your necessities and rent making $7.50 an hour without any kind of help like student refunds. Please it's just too hard to believe.

Depending on what you pay for rent, it can be done. My wife bought our house (before we were married) making about $11.00 an hour while she was going to school in the evenings.

[Browning151]

I agree with you. This is my point.

One thing, don't tell me you paid for food, car insurance, phone bill, water, gas, and all your necessities and rent making $7.50 an hour without any kind of help like student refunds. Please it's just too hard to believe.

It can be done by a single adult who lives responsibly. I'm 25 and single and I pay all my bills on my own: a mortgage, all utilities, pay my own health insurance, cell phone and car insurance on 2 cars that are both already paid for. The only debt that I have is my mortgage and 1 credit card and I don't have a college education, so it is entirely possible for someone to make it on their own, and since I'm sure it will get asked I average making (commission) only slightly more than someone working 2 jobs at that pay rate.

In reference to some of your other comments and views expressed in this thread: Living temporarily below the poverty level in this country may not be a choice, but being CHRONICALLY below the poverty level rests squarely on a persons choices and nothing more. It comes down to people in this country EXPECTING to be able to live at a certain level, not earning it. Realistically food and shelter are the basic necessities of life, if you have those you're already doing better than a large part of the worlds population. You can call me cold, cruel, heartless or whatever names you'd like to label me but if you have money to spend on other luxuries such as cable tv, cell phones, internet connections etc. etc. then you should not be eligible for gov't assistance. You don't need any of those things to live, so if you're not willing to make sacrifices of personal luxuries to get yourself out of tough times, why should I be expected to make those sacrifices for you and have your gov't handout check taken out of my paycheck in the form of higher taxes?

[nelson9995]

It can be done by a single adult who lives responsibly. I'm 25 and single and I pay all my bills on my own: a mortgage, all utilities, pay my own health insurance, cell phone and car insurance on 2 cars that are both already paid for. The only debt that I have is my mortgage and 1 credit card and I don't have a college education, so it is entirely possible for someone to make it on their own, and since I'm sure it will get asked I average making (commission) only slightly more than someone working 2 jobs at that pay rate.

In reference to some of your other comments and views expressed in this thread: Living temporarily below the poverty level in this country may not be a choice, but being CHRONICALLY below the poverty level rests squarely on a persons choices and nothing more. It comes down to people in this country EXPECTING to be able to live at a certain level, not earning it. Realistically food and shelter are the basic necessities of life, if you have those you're already doing better than a large part of the worlds population. You can call me cold, cruel, heartless or whatever names you'd like to label me but if you have money to spend on other luxuries such as cable tv, cell phones, internet connections etc. etc. then you should not be eligible for gov't assistance. You don't need any of those things to live, so if you're not willing to make sacrifices of personal luxuries to get yourself out of tough times, why should I be expected to make those sacrifices for you and have your gov't handout check taken out of my paycheck in the form of higher taxes?

First of all, you make more than twice the amount. Let's see you pay those expenses making $7.50 and be able to even eat well.

Second of all, I agree with what you say how poverty in this country can be temporary. I also agree with you on this where you state that you have to make sacrifices temporarily to get out of poverty. I also believe in people working hard for things. I never said hand things to people. All I said was there should be help for those that need it temporarily.

Also, I hate how people say "WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY MY TAX MONEY FOR YOU."
I can see where you get this from if the person sits on their butt and doesn't work at all. But, we all pay income taxes, we all pay sales tax so we all get some back of what we pay or paid for for a while; so please don't act like a hard working person that all of a sudden needs help is getting their money from you.

[nelson9995]

Depending on what you pay for rent, it can be done. My wife bought our house (before we were married) making about $11.00 an hour while she was going to school in the evenings.

Again, $11, not $7.50. This is a $3.50 an hour more which is 140 more a week which is $560 extra a month. This can be rent, all of your bills, and it's a huge difference.

Even at $11 I admire her. She seems like a well organized person because at $11 it can still feel short at times.

Also, most likely she was receiving school refunds which CAN be a good amount every semester. Not saying she was but I'm guessing she was and if this is true, then that's another income.

[Browning151]

First of all, you make more than twice the amount.

If I wasn't making what I do, then I would get 2 jobs and still make it happen, I also generally work more than 1 job worth of hours. Point I was getting at was a person working 2 jobs has the same ability, my mom does it and I work nearly enough to do it. If you want it you will make it happen.

Second of all, I agree with what you say how poverty in this country can be temporary. I also agree with you on this where you state that you have to make sacrifices temporarily to get out of poverty. I also believe in people working hard for things. I never said hand things to people. All I said was there should be help for those that need it temporarily.

And it is there for people who need it temporarily already.

Also, I hate how people say "WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY MY TAX MONEY FOR YOU."
I can see where you get this from if the person sits on their butt and doesn't work at all.

I didn't say why should I pay tax money for you, I said why should I pay tax money for you if you are spending money on more than the basic necessities of life. There's a difference. I have no problem with people needing temporary assistance. I do however have a huge problem with people who become wards of the state and still spend money on luxury items, if you can't pay for food there's no reason for you to have cell phones and cable tv etc etc. I hate moochers and people that abuse the system, it's one of my biggest pet peeves.

But, we all pay income taxes

Wrong, not everyone pays income taxes.

so please don't act like a hard working person that all of a sudden needs help is getting their money from you.

I never said that either, temporary assistance isn't a problem. People who sit on gov't assistance chronically are a problem.

[bafbrian]

I agree with you. This is my point.

One thing, don't tell me you paid for food, car insurance, phone bill, water, gas, and all your necessities and rent making $7.50 an hour without any kind of help like student refunds. Please it's just too hard to believe.

I did it on $8.00/hr when I was full time and going to school full time. If you know how to budget, it is doable.

[trini_gsr]

I agree with you. This is my point.

One thing, don't tell me you paid for food, car insurance, phone bill, water, gas, and all your necessities and rent making $7.50 an hour without any kind of help like student refunds. Please it's just too hard to believe.

lol i did. it was really hard. lots of cereal, ramen noodles, tuna fish, and hitting the dollar menus up at McD and Wendy's LOL. basically i made about $1000ish a month i think - rent was $300 (my apt wasn't the best lol), didn't have a car note, insurance was $70 bc the car was in my moms name (lol), didn't have a cell at the time, and gas was a lot cheaper than today. i got laid off from my campus job, and did that job for about 3-4 months before i found a job that paid more. i was close to graduating then, so i spent all of my free time at school anyhow working on labs or senior design projects...my schedule was super tight between work and school, that's all i really did.

during that time period i didn't spend extra $$ on ANYTHING, not even candy at the gas station...you'd be surprised how little you can get by on when you have to.

[BanginJimmy]

Again, $11, not $7.50. This is a $3.50 an hour more which is 140 more a week which is $560 extra a month. This can be rent, all of your bills, and it's a huge difference.

Thats true, but if you own your own house then you know that it is never that simple. A mortgage is also more expensive than a bottom barrel apt. When I first got to Atlanta I found a nice apt for about $600 a month and had zero maintenance costs. My wife ended up having to replace a furnace her first winter in the house.

Also, most likely she was receiving school refunds which CAN be a good amount every semester. Not saying she was but I'm guessing she was and if this is true, then that's another income.

She did not receive HOPE or PEL. She had to drop out of school her first semester to take care of her grandma. That left her unable to qualify for HOPE or PEL for the first year in school here.

[blaknoize]

Well about that income tax statement. NH residents dont pay income or sales tax. The argument I make about all this taxing yet not being able to live more than an existence shows when comparing NH to what I believe every other state we have. Its costs more, they are paid better, the actual cost of living is lesser up there. Car insurance is even cheaper for whatever reason.

A person making $7.50 should still be able to live "well" assuming they did not have any unnecessary payments. Like a car note, which seems to be hard to avoid when your in a very very tight spot and need transportation instantly and do not know the busing system, or... as in some cities, dont have busing systems or u live way out in a suburb. I lived on $7.25 but only for 4months. I had no car payment and a very economical car (when gas hit $4 a gallon the CRX was still expensive for my 20mile trip to and from work.) The problem with this whole debate about living on $7.50 is that the variables and so called "inflation" of goods can mess that up, secondly the assumption is that all things are working smoothly. Also, for whatever reason, GA state law "excludes from coverage any employment that is subject to the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act when the Federal rate is greater than the State rate." http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm#Georgia
So $7.50 isnt even the actual minimum wage there.

If that car and the ONLY car u own breaks, your $7.50 is already stretched to the limit to house u, feed u, cloth u and provide fuel for your transportation. I ran into that issue but had HELP. My car broke and forced me out of school, I didnt have enough to fix it and also didnt have enough to get another car. That is the issue I see, the assumption that all things will last and be as they were forever.

[ek forever]

I make about $9/hour on my two jobs. My fiance only works 3 days a week for my uncle at $10/hour without taxes being taken out.

We have:

$65,000 mortgage on a house that was originally $140,000.
Two paid for cars. Mine a 2000 Civic with solid suspension upgrades. And she has a 2007 Honda Civic with only a few payments left.
She has health insurance, I don't, I'm considering getting a policy from blue cross that costs $90/month. Covers all emergencies and has small copays for doctors visits and prescriptions.
We eat out maybe 3-4 times a month. We eat all natural and some organic food and cook at home a lot.
My house is well furnished. IKEA bedroom and mostly nice yard sale furniture everywhere else.
We feed 3 cats, which cost us about $150 a month in all natural cat food and natural cat litter.
I also paid for my college tuition at the University of West Ga every semester so far until this semester. Just got hope back, KICKASS.
I pay for my dental cleanings every year out of pocket. Why pay $30 a month for dental insurance when I can pay $60 a year for my annual cleaning? Haven't had a cavity in 5 years. Actually, which is when I had health/dental last under my mom.
We have Television, Charters 2nd fastest internet service available, (20mbps).
We both pay out of pocket for a Chiropractic adjustment every 2 months. $50 each.
Neither of us smoke and we drink very little. We're both in good health, I would say "shape" but I haven't worked out in months. my definition of shape is unusual, I'm 165lbs. I've lost weight since I quit working out.
$10/6pack of woodchuck every few weeks for me personally. Not a beer fan.

Neither of us have any debt. We both worked in high school to buy our cars, and we've both just been smart with out money since. We buy clothes at the thrift store. (with the exception of shoes, we both wear expensive shoes.)

(She actually has student loans with 0% interest, she's saved it all as cushion money in an annuity that earns 7%/year. She'll write one check when she graduates to pay the loan off and she'll have made about a few thousand dollars over the last 4 years.


Determination and knowing how to make a budget can go a long way. When we decided to buy a house and move out from living with my mom we sat down and figured out our monthly income and what we could afford.

We both go to school full time and we're Juniors at UWG. COMBINED I think we make about $30,000/year.

And again. ZERO debt. (besides the mortgage)