We are officially screwed

[tony]

Then how about we use the sentiment expressed during the town halls last summer as a guage of public support?

Heres my problem with the Tea Party movement, these town halls, or whatever and also leads me to believe that the opposition gets attention because the media gives it to them, not because they are significant in numbers. Look at the simple demographics of the opposition and then look at the demographics of the United States today, the two don't match up. As shown in the previous election minority vote is significant, and not just black vote. Latino vote, Arab Americans, Asians, whatever but none of these groups show up at these rallies in significant numbers to oppose the current administration, to be frank what you see is mostly angry whites. It is because of this that I cannot say that they have a significant amount of influence politically.

When Fox news has to play up the numbers at Tea Party rallies I can tell what is really going on and regardless of what polls say. When the Republican party does little to evolve with the times and continue to fight for the status quo, this is why you have such a large number of independent voters. When the right doesn't do anything to remove their selves from the protestors this past weekend yelling out racial slurs and other ignorant statements, I do not take that side seriously.

Know what is coming next? A path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and with that will come a bolstered voting base for the Democratic party. They are able to do this because they have evolved regardless of how asinine their platform may be. Point the finger at the left if you want but they get it and Republicans don't.

[BanginJimmy]

Heres my problem with the Tea Party movement, these town halls, or whatever and also leads me to believe that the opposition gets attention because the media gives it to them, not because they are significant in numbers. Look at the simple demographics of the opposition and then look at the demographics of the United States today, the two don't match up. As shown in the previous election minority vote is significant, and not just black vote. Latino vote, Arab Americans, Asians, whatever but none of these groups show up at these rallies in significant numbers to oppose the current administration, to be frank what you see is mostly angry whites. It is because of this that I cannot say that they have a significant amount of influence politically.

What makes you think they arent significant in number? What makes you think that the people that want this horrid bill make up even 1% of the American voters? Dems are in power right now because Bush was a PR nightmare for the GOP. Hell, just look at the current favorability of the dems in congress right now. They had everything going for them for the last 3 years and they found a way to squander it away.

Yes, most of the people you see right now are angry whites, but what does that really prove? When you look at those that are for this, you dont see any different. All that says to me is that whites are more politically active than minorities, nothing more, nothing less.

When Fox news has to play up the numbers at Tea Party rallies I can tell what is really going on and regardless of what polls say. When the Republican party does little to evolve with the times and continue to fight for the status quo, this is why you have such a large number of independent voters. When the right doesn't do anything to remove their selves from the protestors this past weekend yelling out racial slurs and other ignorant statements, I do not take that side seriously.

You say that Fox inflates numbers, where is your proof? MSNBC or CNN? The same organizations that have their credibility riding on Obama's success? Thats no different than asking a climate change scientist if climate change is real or not. They have absolutely zero credibility because they have an obvious agenda.

I agree with you that there is no real for anything racial being said, but at the same time I really dont care. Those same people that were slured to are the ones that have been calling anyone that doesnt fall in line with Obama and the dem ideology a terrorist, a nazi, or a McVeigh wanna be. While I dont think its right, a part of me says they are just getting back what they have been spewing for the last 8 months.

Know what is coming next? A path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and with that will come a bolstered voting base for the Democratic party. They are able to do this because they have evolved regardless of how asinine their platform may be. Point the finger at the left if you want but they get it and Republicans don't.

I agree with you. The dems know they lost the independent vote with their socialist agenda. Now they need to supplant them with criminals. Then again, leave it to the dems to ignore the fact that programs have failed in the past cause they can try it again.

I agree with you that there is no reason for anything racial, but to tell you the truth I really dont care about it either. These people are the same ones that have been calling anyone that didnt fall in lock step with Obama and the dems everything from terrorists to Nazi's, to McVeigh wanna be's.

[stillaneon]

Heres my problem with the Tea Party movement, these town halls, or whatever and also leads me to believe that the opposition gets attention because the media gives it to them, not because they are significant in numbers. Look at the simple demographics of the opposition and then look at the demographics of the United States today, the two don't match up. As shown in the previous election minority vote is significant, and not just black vote. Latino vote, Arab Americans, Asians, whatever but none of these groups show up at these rallies in significant numbers to oppose the current administration, to be frank what you see is mostly angry whites. It is because of this that I cannot say that they have a significant amount of influence politically.

When Fox news has to play up the numbers at Tea Party rallies I can tell what is really going on and regardless of what polls say. When the Republican party does little to evolve with the times and continue to fight for the status quo, this is why you have such a large number of independent voters. When the right doesn't do anything to remove their selves from the protestors this past weekend yelling out racial slurs and other ignorant statements, I do not take that side seriously.

Know what is coming next? A path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and with that will come a bolstered voting base for the Democratic party. They are able to do this because they have evolved regardless of how asinine their platform may be. Point the finger at the left if you want but they get it and Republicans don't.

Damn right it is.

The health Care reform and this new path to citizenship will all pass before 2012, so the left can secure a re-election by all the people who think that this health-care reform and their new citizens. Then byt he time people realize how horrible everything has become, Obama will be stepping out of office to pass it on to the republicans to fix.

Like was previously stated, The ONLY people who would have voted for this reform, would have been the people who couldn't afford Health Insurance.

We need to set it up so the only people who vote in major elections are property or business owners. I promise that a lot of these issues would work themselves out if the majority of the voters were intelligent and business minded..

[Vteckidd]

Unfortunately, this is truth.

It seems that current legistation is pushed through Congress against the will of the people by lobbyists, party platforms, and the President (not just Obama either).

Again i ask, just cause it happens PREVIOUSLY , doesnt make it right NOW. I mean here is OBAMA saying "CHANGE!" , CHANGE WASHINGTON, POLITICS OF OLD ARE OVER!

But yet EVERY FUCKING ARGUMENT by the left is "WELL SHIT IT WAS DONE BEFORE! BUSH DID IT"

Do they not realize how absolutely retarded and stupid they sound? I would think if they were the party of change and SUPER MAJORITYs in both sides of congress, they could have REALLY changed politics. But they didnt

[Vteckidd]

Know what is coming next? A path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and with that will come a bolstered voting base for the Democratic party. They are able to do this because they have evolved regardless of how asinine their platform may be. Point the finger at the left if you want but they get it and Republicans don't.

I guess buying votes is what this country is all about, and that is truly sad. Dems get that they can lie cheat and steal and bribe to get what they want. If you stand for that, good luck. Republicans arent innocent by any means, but this is as bad as its ever been in my memory

[Total_Blender]

{quote=BanginJimmy]
Those same people that were slured to are the ones that have been calling anyone that doesnt fall in line with Obama and the dem ideology a terrorist, a nazi, or a McVeigh wanna be. While I dont think its right, a part of me says they are just getting back what they have been spewing for the last 8 months. [/quote]

I didn't say every teabagger was a terrorist/Nazzie/McVeigh wannabee. Just Alex Jones and his followers. And maybe Rush and Beck.

I heard Rush said he will be leaving the country if health care was passed. Later dude!! Don't let the door hit your stank ass on the way out!!

[tony]

We need to set it up so the only people who vote in major elections are property or business owners. I promise that a lot of these issues would work themselves out if the majority of the voters were intelligent and business minded..

Kind of like an elite society right? Forget the people who might just be blue collar workers, why should they matter? Yes, discriminating based on social status really sounds like the solution. I'd love to see the politician that goes along with that proposal.

I guess buying votes is what this country is all about, and that is truly sad. Dems get that they can lie cheat and steal and bribe to get what they want. If you stand for that, good luck. Republicans arent innocent by any means, but this is as bad as its ever been in my memory

I have a liberal friend that I debate with all of the time, he's so adamant that Democrats should have absolute power over Congress and the Executive office and I try to explain to him that no matter who it is, absolute power corrupts. I've sided with Democrats on issues and I've sided with Republicans, somewhere in between there is common sense but if Republicans don't get their head out their asses and stop dealing in past tense rather than present day they will seal their fate.

[Vteckidd]

Kind of like an elite society right? Forget the people who might just be blue collar workers, why should they matter? Yes, discriminating based on social status really sounds like the solution. I'd love to see the politician that goes along with that proposal.

Didnt they try this in England and most of europe for awhile oh i dont know 400 years ago lol Hell lets go to a CASTE system HAHA

I have a liberal friend that I debate with all of the time, he's so adamant that Democrats should have absolute power over Congress and the Executive office and I try to explain to him that no matter who it is, absolute power corrupts. I've sided with Democrats on issues and I've sided with Republicans, somewhere in between there is common sense but if Republicans don't get their head out their asses and stop dealing in past tense rather than present day they will seal their fate.

While i disagree with peoples views at least you are engaged in the debate. As i said, i can list 1000 reasons im right, you can list 1000 reasons youre right, time will tell.

I disagree with the last part, i think the MAJORITY of this country is center right, and as i posted in a different thread, Obama won by 10 million votes or less than 8% of the total population WHO voted, and less than 5% of the TOTAL VOTING POPULATION (registered voters). He won decisively, but it wasnt a mandate on Left wing agenda IMO. It was a referendum on BUSH and mccain just wasnt a viable front runner. I think the majority of people in this country see this as a bad thing. They see it as a GOVT who cannot control themselves, spend money they cant account for, a massive entitlement program the likes of which we have never seen before passed in a way that was sleazy, it IMO is unconstitutional, etc etc etc. I think the Democrats will pay a hefty price and seal their fate come the next 2 elections.

That is if the republicans dont fuck it up. However, just as the Dems seem drunk on power now, i think its necessary to also say that the people need to stay engaged and not let it ever get like this again.

[bu villain]

We need to set it up so the only people who vote in major elections are property or business owners. I promise that a lot of these issues would work themselves out if the majority of the voters were intelligent and business minded..

My hat is off to you sir. You are quite courageous for taking the unpopular position of supporting elitism and disenfranchising a vast number of Americans.

[bodhi]

i dont follow politics as deeply as others here, but i can say this....
the shit we had going so far isnt working, so this shit they just passed cant be any worse.

people are dying left and right with the current healthcare setup, so if people die left and right with this new one, no harm no foul

[stillaneon]

Kind of like an elite society right? Forget the people who might just be blue collar workers, why should they matter? Yes, discriminating based on social status really sounds like the solution. I'd love to see the politician that goes along with that proposal.

Then let's meet in the middle? Seems to me that if you don't pay taxes or recieve a substancial amount of assistance from the government, then you don't deserve the right to vote. Not being a biggot, because I sure am not wealthy, but to allow the people who are contributing nothing, vote (and this time around a good number did so based purely on Race) seems idiotic.

I don't think it's fair to say that blue collar workers can't vote, but there needs to be new guidelines, based purely on the idea that the nation is a business...

[Browning151]

Then let's meet in the middle? Seems to me that if you don't pay taxes or recieve a substancial amount of assistance from the government, then you don't deserve the right to vote. Not being a biggot, because I sure am not wealthy, but to allow the people who are contributing nothing, vote (and this time around a good number did so based purely on Race) seems idiotic.

I don't think it's fair to say that blue collar workers can't vote, but there needs to be new guidelines, based purely on the idea that the nation is a business...

I agree to a point, however I think a better way to go about it would be something like a "civics" test that would require that people to have a basic understanding of our political system, how it works, why it's setup the way it is as well as a basic understanding of simple economics and our economy. There is a great deal of people out there who truly think that the govt can provide "free" healthcare, and sustain entitlement programs indefintely with no real way to pay for them. Nothing is free, and there are some people who absolutely cannot grasp that concept.

[stillaneon]

I agree to a point, however I think a better way to go about it would be something like a "civics" test that would require that people to have a basic understanding of our political system, how it works, why it's setup the way it is as well as a basic understanding of simple economics and our economy. There is a great deal of people out there who truly think that the govt can provide "free" healthcare, and sustain entitlement programs indefintely with no real way to pay for them. Nothing is free, and there are some people who absolutely cannot grasp that concept.

That will work about as well as telling everyone to fill out their Census packet...

[Vteckidd]

i dont follow politics as deeply as others here, but i can say this....
the shit we had going so far isnt working, so this shit they just passed cant be any worse.

people are dying left and right with the current healthcare setup, so if people die left and right with this new one, no harm no foul

bullshit then why are we ranked #1 in the world?

Again the fundamental argument isn't against reform, it's reform that destroys te economy and the quality of care I am against

[Total_Blender]

You all do realize that if they implemented a civics/literacy test like in the days of old, that pretty much all of the teabaggers would be denied their votes too, right?

[Browning151]

That will work about as well as telling everyone to fill out their Census packet...

Haha I agree, it's just annoying that so many people go out and vote that have absolutely no clue what is going on.

[Browning151]

You all do realize that if they implemented a civics/literacy test like in the days of old, that pretty much all of the teabaggers would be denied their votes too, right?

That would not bother me at all. I'm not a "teabagger", a republican or a democrat. The fewer ignorant people voting, on either side of the aisle, the better.

[stillaneon]

You all do realize that if they implemented a civics/literacy test like in the days of old, that pretty much all of the teabaggers would be denied their votes too, right?

Sounds good to me...

[David88vert]

There is a great deal of people out there who truly think that the govt can provide "free" healthcare, and sustain entitlement programs indefintely with no real way to pay for them. Nothing is free, and there are some people who absolutely cannot grasp that concept.

We call these people Democrats and put them to work for us in the Capitol.

[David88vert]

You all do realize that if they implemented a civics/literacy test like in the days of old, that pretty much all of the teabaggers would be denied their votes too, right?

And they would be among the majority of the country - including immigrants, minorities, etc. More people would fail than people realize.

Yes, it should be required to learn and understand the basics at minimum.

[BanginJimmy]

i dont follow politics as deeply as others here, but i can say this....
the shit we had going so far isnt working, so this shit they just passed cant be any worse.

people are dying left and right with the current healthcare setup, so if people die left and right with this new one, no harm no foul

my advise, continue to just ignore this section. You obviously have nothing of substance to add.

[d00d]

One of the perks of working out of a truck all day Is being able to keep up with this whole health care debacle for the past 6 months...
I have never been scared for the future of our country before, yesterday has changed all of that. The fundamental transformation of America has begun, hold on tight .

[tony]

I agree to a point, however I think a better way to go about it would be something like a "civics" test that would require that people to have a basic understanding of our political system, how it works, why it's setup the way it is as well as a basic understanding of simple economics and our economy. There is a great deal of people out there who truly think that the govt can provide "free" healthcare, and sustain entitlement programs indefintely with no real way to pay for them. Nothing is free, and there are some people who absolutely cannot grasp that concept.

I've pondered this idea many times and I would have to research it much much further than my basic understanding. It's one of those things that makes sense on the surface but when you actually implement it you find the idea is total crap. Kind of similar to what Republicans (not picking on them in mentioning this) put forth in the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings act, which meant to eliminate the federal deficit in 5 years. Yeah, it sounded good but the logistics of it was the downfall.

[91LudeSiT]

I am a bleeding heart, and I feel this is a huge step backwards for this county. I feel like not being lumped in with the morons that supported this movement. Oh and how about the fines for individuals that don't choose to carry coverage, IE out of work people like my girlfriend.

[StreetHazard]

The gripes I have...is the tax increase to help pay for it, and the most likely rate increase in health insurance premiums. So it almost feels like I need to be really poor and get my government subsidies, or really fucking sick to get my moneys worth out of it. Which I am sure if I keep up my drinking and smoking that will happen sooner than later. I'm excited about it, but I also become excited when I see very angry, white, rich men. Not in the "I want him to coat my chin in man batter inside his Porsche" kind of way, but in the "I am really glad that ritz cracker is fucking miserable" kind of way. For some reason seeing a bunch of grey haired douchbags pontificating about how much money they will lose if certain "events" happen in the political spectrum fills me with glee and joy, it really makes me want to support what is going to piss them off the most. I also really enjoy witnessing the seething hatred many southerns have for the man himself laughably and sadly within this huge swath of the bible belt, almost screaming it out of their 4X4 trucks with lift kits and 26" swampers with a rebel yell. Much less giving ANY of his ideas a chance in hell.

But mostly what I am excited about is this...

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201003220001

Is it just me or does Rush Limbaugh remind you of a man that likes to sit naked in a bathtub, while other men and woman just stand over him and shit and piss all over his face? He just looks like that kind of guy to me, if I would be so presumptuous to judge. It could almost be a damn good reason in itself to support the Bill.

I know none of this is any "real" reason to throw my hat into the political ring. But it's reason enough for me to do things like support abortion, gay rights, universal health care and a separation between church and state, a separation so deep it's like the border of North and South Korea. The "tea-baggers" motivate me as well, probably not in the way they would like but it's good they keep showing their bigoted hateful faces just to remind me that my heart is in a good place.

[BanginJimmy]

All I got from your post is that you hate white people, hate people with more money than you, and hate people that don't tow the Obama line. Ever think that maybe its not all those others that have the problems and the problem is you? Maybe if you attempt to better yourself instead of sitting around drinking and smoking all day you can get over your envy.

[StreetHazard]

All I got from your post is that you hate white people, hate people with more money than you, and hate people that don't tow the Obama line. Ever think that maybe its not all those others that have the problems and the problem is you? Maybe if you attempt to better yourself instead of sitting around drinking and smoking all day you can get over your envy.

It isn't really "envy" in any real sense of the word, that would be like saying I am envious of someone that can masturbate openly in front of their loved ones and coworkers and not get a stern talking too. it's more of a constant state of "are you fucking serious....."?

Hate is a strong word. I just dislike the establishment, but to say it's not a requirement for a orderly and peaceful society would make me an Anarchist, or a Nihilist and I probably have a little of both those political leanings if they can be described as one.

But mostly I don't put any stock at all in my governments ability to take care of me or my family in accordance with what I feel is "right" or "just". And it really is that simple, it's to a point where maybe people need to start asking "why exactly would the government NOT screw me directly in the ass"? instead of trying to identify the rationalizations of why they would choose to rape you, completely against your will.

I am doing quite well in my life right now, but thank you very much for attempting to feebly psycho analyze my internet postings, I enjoy myself in every way I see fit and as often as I can. If those simple pleasures involve to much drink, a carton of smokes and a 3-way with some strippers from Yugoslavia, comfortably in my own home I would consider myself a lucky and a very successful man. Although my definition of success may be a little different than most of "mainstream america" or maybe even your own.

Vote Obama out if you think that will help, I don't think it will as long as america still continues to have any sort of "career politicians" forming our laws and structuring our regulations. Our lawmakers should have to feel the result of their decisions when they leave the government sector just like the rest of us do and I have never gotten the impression that that ever happens. Like Ron Paul said our current situation is just a transfer of wealth, all of the bad debt from the financial sector has been dumped upon the backs of us so the corporations can become solvent again. Does it suck?...absolutely, does it surprise me?...Hell no. And when you start talking about reform that is costing "trillions" of dollars....I mean damn, fuck it at that point. We then start delving into the blessings of this phony Capitalist concept of "credit" but more of what I like to think of it as modern day "sharecropping" or "paid-slavery". All I see is another way to chip away at the middle-class to expand the lower class so we can all just pick the cotton practically at gun-point if you attempt to escape, or violate "the law" and not even own the land beneath your feet, and having the audacity of actually charging us for the privilege on top of an outlandish interest rate and taxes.

Paid slavery is what it is, socialism is not here....it's capitalism in all of its glory, so relish in it conservatives. It is the societal and economic engine you have been so passionate about defending, it's what you wanted all along.

I will always survive, just like most of you will too. Chances are if you have some marketable skills, you will will not go hungry, and will not end up under a bridge. Maybe you had to forgo that car payment on the brand new M3 you always wanted but what a small price to pay for this newest addition contributing to universal health-care for our communities and our country, right patriots?

You must be anti-american if not.


.

[nreggie454]

Anarchists are idiots that don't think things through. If you want anarchy, then I will kill you, take all of your shit, and use your wife/girlfriend as my sex slave. Since there is no evil establishment, I will not be punished.

[David88vert]

I also really enjoy witnessing the seething hatred many southerns have for the man himself laughably and sadly within this huge swath of the bible belt, almost screaming it out of their 4X4 trucks with lift kits and 26" swampers with a rebel yell.

So, please explain exactly how are you not being a bigot using stereotypes with this statement?

[StreetHazard]

Anarchists are idiots that don't think things through. If you want anarchy, then I will kill you, take all of your shit, and use your wife/girlfriend as my sex slave. Since there is no evil establishment, I will not be punished.

Heh! For some reason this reminds of the time I was walking down Euclid and there were a couple of homeless young men leaning against a brink wall. Then the inevitable

"hey man, you got a cigarette? Or how about some change"?

I stopped, and turned around

"you look like your in good health, and you have all of your teeth. What the fuck are you doing here begging for money"?

He rambled off something like he from another state trying to get someplace else for whatever reason then proceeded to ask me for more money. I started to get irritated but I was not about to just give it up.

"Ill tell you what, I have got $300 in my wallet RIGHT NOW and you can have it, but your going to have to earn it.

the bum enthusiastically asked me what he has to do to get it. And I answered him.

"take it from me, your sitting here on the fucking street looking like you have absolutely nothing to lose, you look healthy, you look strong and you obviously have no moral qualms about begging for it, so I really cannot think of reason why you wouldnt if you need it so fucking bad you want to beg for it. So im telling you all you have to do is get to my back pocket.......and take it from me"

"naaaa mister, that's alright, im good...you just have a nice day".

"you too"


People should hope the day never comes where they might be desperate enough to take me up on my offer

[StreetHazard]

So, please explain exactly how are you not being a bigot using stereotypes with this statement?

I do like your mustang

[David88vert]

Heh! For some reason this reminds of the time I was walking down Euclid and there were a couple of homeless young men leaning against a brink wall. Then the inevitable

"hey man, you got a cigarette? Or how about some change"?

I stopped, and turned around

"you look like your in good health, and you have all of your teeth. What the fuck are you doing here begging for money"?

He rambled off something like he from another state trying to get someplace else for whatever reason then proceeded to ask me for more money. I started to get irritated but I was not about to just give it up.

"Ill tell you what, I have got $300 in my wallet RIGHT NOW and you can have it, but your going to have to earn it.

the bum enthusiastically asked me what he has to do to get it. And I answered him.

"take it from me, your sitting here on the fucking street looking like you have absolutely nothing to lose, you look healthy, you look strong and you obviously have no moral qualms about begging for it, so I really cannot think of reason why you wouldnt if you need it so fucking bad you want to beg for it. So im telling you all you have to do is get to my back pocket.......and take it from me"

"naaaa mister, that's alright, im good...you just have a nice day".

"you too"


People should hope the day never comes where they might be desperate enough to take me up on my offer

I see this everyday. There are a lot of people who do not want to work, they just want handouts.
I don't mind helping those in need, but they have to at least have the deisre to attempt to try to help themselves. Not all do.

[StreetHazard]

damn I just re read that and my stuff is littered with misspellings.....no more redbull for me

[eraser4g63]

Anybody watching them gloat on TV?

[StreetHazard]

Yeah yeah yeah. Eeeeevveryone is an expert these days, from the comfort of their living room sofas. I have an opinion, but I'm so sick of opinions recently that I'm currently curtailing it. I prefer peaceful silence to the cacophony of chattering white noise I've been hearing lately.

[FreeMyndz]

Is it gh3y to call streethazard my hero? lol...he's like the John Galt of this thread...with a little Patrick Bateman to boot...

don't know who they are? Go read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and watch American Psycho with Christian Bale

[Browning151]

...he's like the John Galt of this thread...

I wonder how many people will know who that is without googling....

[Total_Blender]

Who is John Galt? I heard he was some guy who led a bunch of conservatives out into the desert where they could be free from Government interference. You know... this guy. I heard that worked out real well.

[StreetHazard]

Is it gh3y to call streethazard my hero? lol...he's like the John Galt of this thread...with a little Patrick Bateman to boot...

don't know who they are? Go read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and watch American Psycho with Christian Bale

No it's not because I support gay-rights too, you are free to express yourself however you see fit.

[Total_Blender]