Yeah I guess so, it's good to know the sample of which they polled. I mean if you poll those who are in a certain demographic you'll get a much different outcome than another, also questions asked. (i.e push polling) Either way last time I checked 62% is greater than 38%.Originally Posted by JITB
Lol @ twitter polls. I'm not on active on twitter myself and I don't know many people who are. About the only thing I use twitter for is to get the daily specials from the place I usually eat lunch.
So anyway, I just read a rundown on the Senate healthcare bill and it seems decent to me.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2009122400904
1.) Everyone under $29,326 per year is eligible for Medicaid.
2.) Everyone up from $29,326 to $88,200 a year is eligible for subsidized coverage through a state based insurance exchange.
3.) Employers with more than 50 employees would face fines for not providing coverage.
4.) Employees who can afford coverage but choose not to get it also face fines. - not sure how I feel about this yet but I am pretty sure I'm against it.
5.) 120 billion in cuts over to the next decade to Medicare Advantage, which is a form of medicare provided to seniors through private insurance companies. These cuts include extras like gym memberships, and other add-on benefits.
6.) Narrowing of the "doughnut hole" which forces some seniors to pay for their prescription drug coverage. Those who remain in the doughnut hole will receive a 50% discount on their prescription drugs.
7.) Changing the way treatments are billed. Certain treatments will get paid out as a bundle rather than an itemized list of individual services.
8.) This plan will be payed for by cuts within the system (see also: Medicare Advantage), deals with the hospital groups and drug companies, and also increased taxes on millionaires and increased taxes on the "Cadillac" insurance policies.
Doesn't seem quite so bad to me?
As far as what Obama has done within the past year... what about the things he hasn't done?
For one, we're not at war with Russia right now. I know a big part of McCheese/Palin foreign policy was to engage Russia over Georgia. Glad that situation blew over.
Also, we were saved from having to deal with Sarah Palin in a leadership capacity at the legislative level (having a vote in the Senate). She was free to continue serving her constituents in Alaska who voted for her to serve a full ter... oh right... she fucked them over anyway.
I know you probably realize you are making an unfair oversimplification Jimmy, but not everyone does because I keep hearing these kind of arguments. Congress is not supposed to simply vote with whatever national polls say. Keep in mind:
1. Politicans represent a certain group of people, just because 60% of the US dislikes a bill doesn't mean that politician's constituents feel the same.
2. Politicans represent all of their constituents not just the majority. This is an important part of our government in general. Why do we even have a senate at all? Majority does not always rule.
3. Most average Joes don't have time to really investigate or understand many bills (especially 2000 page ones). A representative has a duty to do his/her best to make the best choice as they see the issue. Of course the people's feelings should be taken into account but that doesn't mean blindly voting with the majority regardless of the consequences.
Equals increased taxes for everyone.
More jobs cut in order to pay these additional fines and taxes.
Freedom of choice is no longer a freedom we enjoy.
Rationing will result.
Why should anyone actually have to pay for their prescriptions right?
changing the way it is billed doesnt mean its going to cost less. It will probably cost more because it will be easier for those that are looking to defraud the system to hide it.
Those cuts are also called rationing. Then added taxes which means medical plans will become even more expensive.
Of course it doesnt, nothing a liberal ever does seems bad to you.
I guess you could say the same things for your messiah. He barely even started his term before he started campaigning.Also, we were saved from having to deal with Sarah Palin in a leadership capacity at the legislative level (having a vote in the Senate). She was free to continue serving her constituents in Alaska who voted for her to serve a full ter... oh right... she fucked them over anyway.
BTW, Palin was successful in reigning in costs at the state level while Obaam has spent so much money so quickly that even the chinese are telling us how to go about capitalism.
LOL @ people blaming Obama b/c there were 5 guys at your job that WORKED HARDER than you, were SMARTER than you or had more people skills than you. My number 1 job when I am at work is to be better and smarther than any1 I work with. I make it so that if the boss is FORCED (by the President of the U.S... lol) to reduce headcount that his FIRST thought is "I gotta have Baby J --- the rest I will figure it out but I NEED Baby J". If you are not doing that at your job then you're expendable no matter who the fucking President is.
ALSO LOL @ Bill Clinton nutswingers. He was better than Bush (who is a total fucking retard) but BILL CLINTON IS THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR THE DECLINE IN HOUSING / BANKING.
"Really? How so Baby J??" I'm glad you asked.
I suggest some of you educate yourselves on the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act signed by Bill Clinton. If we need to go back further than Clinton to provide other data then I can suggest some other reading as well. Read up on billionaire Sanford I. Weill - and a few of his posse and politicians that were in bed with him.
Notice how flat it was before Bill Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall, then notice how steep it has become. Organized ripoff of millions of Americans.
Obama just got out the gate - the verdict is still out on him. But it was NOT time in this country for another Republican I'll tell you that much. McCain is not a total idiot like Bush, but it doesn't matter who inherited the last 16 years --- they would have a job on their hands regardless.
If you don't like who the President is get the fuck out - there are lots of other countries to live in.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Jimmy I suggest you view McCains interview on how Obama is doing. I'm sure he'd be GLAD to agree with you on your Obama stance but he doesn't - and I'm sure he knows more about politics than you do.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
What are you talking about? Alaska runs on a fiscal surplus which is why they pay their citizens, I guess thats why Palin felt it was okay to bill the state for nights she was at home.
The reason Alaska runs at a fiscal surplus is because she made so many cuts in useless programs and streamlined many others. That was why she upset so many republicans in Alaska.
You act like that is uncommon. I know you arent going to sit there and say that every other politician at that level doesnt do the exact same things.
You know as well as I do that I always hated McCain. I said as far back as June of 08 that dems had it made in the 08 election as they win no matter who won the election. McCain is closer to a blue dog dem than he is a republican.Jimmy I suggest you view McCains interview on how Obama is doing. I'm sure he'd be GLAD to agree with you on your Obama stance but he doesn't - and I'm sure he knows more about politics than you do.
To be fair, she did save the Alaskan taxpayers half her salary.
Jimmy, your responses are typical Republican talking points.
1.) Higher taxes? Only on the filthy rich... fuck 'em they can afford it.
2.) Job cuts? I don't see it, given that the gov't will also be paying subsidies to small businesses to help them cover their employees. Employees under a certain amount will also be covered by medicaid, so that coverage won't necessarily be on the employers.
3.) Rationing... the proposed cuts are add-on benefits like gym memberships and such.
4.) I don't know what exactly you mean by "He barely even started his term before he started campaigning." Most candidates start campaigning before they are elected, not after they start their terms.
I'm sure you came up with that acronym all by yourself. How creative and original.
You know what amazes me is that everyone strives to become millionaires and yet there is a resentment to somehow "punish" them with taxes because they have more money. Why?! Seriously, I want to be a millionaire one day and I can stand to be in a higher tax bracket, but why tax for the sake to pay for so many other's "benefits" against your own will or choice. That my friend is stealing and tyranny. But tax those rich people, darn them... how dare they make more money and be successful. They are evil rich people, we must punish them with taxes. (but deep under my breath... i want to be like them *giggle*)
I hate when people do shit like this. If you don't know shit, don't post. Especially something like that. The reason you rarely see my name in here is because I don't know shit about politics. And I don't like to talk about something that I don't know about. And I won't go to Wikipedia for my points. If I don't know it, then i won't post it.
I'm sure you came up with that acronym all by yourself. How creative and original.
I admit it, too, I don't know shit about politics. I honestly wish I did, but I never paid any attention to it. Later, QD.
FOR MORE INFO, CLICK THE PIC!!!
Everything you say is nothing but a talking point. You NEVER have anything to back up your responses.
Envy is such a terrible thing. Maybe we should be doing more to punish those that make no effort to succeed in life and just live off the system and quit punishing those that do work hard to succeed.
If you force a business to add additional costs, and they cannot make up those additional costs by raising prics, they have to save the money somewhere. That means either the business doesnt grow as the owner hopes, or the business shrinks. When a business shrinks, that means jobs are cut. About 80% of the people employed in the US are employed by small businesses. Those are the people that are going to be affected by this.
Those cuts will go FAR deeper than that. Adding up all of the proposed cuts wont even cover the added amount of fraud.
Are you really this stupid or are you just acting like this to avoid the truth? Obama was elected into the Senate and served in that capacity for about a year before he was campaigning for President full time. Does your job allow you to take paid time off to look for a better job?4.) I don't know what exactly you mean by "He barely even started his term before he started campaigning." Most candidates start campaigning before they are elected, not after they start their terms.
BTW, this should apply to ANYONE running for a seat that they do not already hold. If a Congressman is going to run for a seat in the Senate, they should be forced to give up their seat first.
You might want to look at who is getting stiffed again.
The top 10% of income tax payers make something like 60% of the money and pay about 75% of the taxes. The bottom 50% make something like 30% of the money and pay like 2% of the income taxes.
yea spending billions of dollars we dont have to bail out failing companies is a great way to build our great nation back up, what a joke! obama is like a 17 old girl with daddy's credit card, spend spend spend. obama probally thinks he needs 3 terms to fix this, then 4, then we have a dictatorship, thanks.
lmaaooooooooooo WTF Jimmy, you're not this dumb are you? I was getting an Alaskan dividend from the age of 1 up to 18 years old.. I was born in 1980 so please explain to me how Palin's cuts somehow retroactively paid my family 26 years before her term.
Obviously there is a very abundant resource in Alaska called oil. They have something else that is lucrative that swims in the water, it's real easy to balance the budget when state revenues are in the multi BILLIONS and there are maybe 700k citizens.
So correct me if I am wrong as I'm not going to do the research again, but didnt the dividend enarly double shortly after Palin got into office?lmaaooooooooooo WTF Jimmy, you're not this dumb are you? I was getting an Alaskan dividend from the age of 1 up to 18 years old.. I was born in 1980 so please explain to me how Palin's cuts somehow retroactively paid my family 26 years before her term.
Only 700K citizens to pay taxes also. I would imagine the costs to run the state are a lot higher than you think also. I would put any money you would like to throw on it that Alaska pays 5x the amount for infrastructure maintenance than any other state in the Union.
^ So does Arizona pay 5x more as well?
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
700k citizens don't pay taxes, there aren't any state income taxes in Alaska. The dividend didn't double under Palin, its stayed in the $1500 to low $2000 range where it has always been.
If you think the climate is nearly as destructive in Arizona as it is in Alaska, you are delusional.
So you don't have an answer? Ok - kool. Thanx. Carry on.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
One thing I did forget to mention, something Bush could not do his entire term the current administration accomplished last month, zero battle related casualties in Iraq. But I'm sure as commander in chief Obama has nothing to do with that..
Actually, my job does allow me to take paid time off to look for another job. I can use my paid vacation days to go to interviews and the like.
I sort of agree with you that those in Congress should vacate their seats before they run for other offices though... if they are in Congress they should be devoting their full attention to their offices there. Thats not a left or a right issue, both parties are guilty of this and have been in pretty much every single election in this country ever.
But this past election both candidates did suspend their campaigning for a week to "fix the economy". Not that that worked out very well...
Rhetoric from both sides, I thought that whole thing was bullshit.
But this past election both candidates did suspend their campaigning for a week to "fix the economy". Not that that worked out very well...
More dependants on an already abused and underfunded program, sounds like a good idea.
How do you not see that employers are going to cut jobs to A) get below 50 employees if they are small enough or B) cut non essential employees to use their salary to cover the fines. Companies can either raise prices or cut jobs to cover higher costs, in order to stay competitive in the market place raising prices can only go so far then the jobs start getting cut.
So you're going to penalize people if they choose not to have coverage, and at the same time penalize people who have coverage that is too good? Who are you or any bureaucrat for that matter to tell me that the coverage that I pay for with my own money that I earn or that my company provides me as part of my benefits package is too good? That sounds pretty ridiculous to me.
Treatments billed as a bundle will only lead to higher costs because it will be easier to hide fraud.
So I guess you have no desire to be wealthy at any point in your life? or does this part not apply to you once you reach that status?
Let's create more places for backdoor deals, kickbacks and pork in what will already be a bloated entitlement program.
I also have one simple point: I would like someone who is a proponent of this healthcare bill to tell me where in the Constitution of The United States it gives the federal government the power to force me to purchase ANYTHING.
^^ Do you feel that the government has never forced you to purchase anything before?? (fed, local, state). Think about it before you answer.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
I never said that they haven't forced me to buy something before. Just a quick example: they force me to buy something every month that I don't need, state and federal mandates in the health insurance that I pay for myself. The question wasn't do they already do it or have they done it, it was where in the constitution are they given the power to do so?
Just food for thought for people who think its great that the governement is going to force people to buy something by imposing fines if they don't, I can see that becoming a very slippery slope very easily.
What do they already force us to buy?
Just look up and educate yourself on the US Constitution Commerce Clause.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
How far congress can extend their power under the commerce clause has been long disputed, and through many court cases the interpretation of such has changed many times over the years. The definitions of power are pretty vague, which obviously allows gov't to include a lot of powers under something that was never intended for that purpose. I can certainly see them extending their powers under the "provide for the general welfare" portion of the clause claiming that it will be for the better that everyone has health insurance whether or not they need or want it.
Just look up and educate yourself on the US Constitution Commerce Clause.
Still not seeing where it forces us to BUY anything
I'm not for the mandates either for what its worth. I think the right has fucked this process up so bad that in the end the insurance companies will end up writing the legislation and we will end up with something that neither party will be proud of.
The more McConnell and his goons stall, the more corporatist the legislation becomes. We've gone from single payer (as introduced by Ted Kennedy) to mandates for people to purchase private insurance. If these guys aren't going to lead (by introducing a better plan) or follow (by contributing constructive input), they should get out of the way.
Really? The war was in a VERY different state than it was when Bush was President. Iraq is a hell of a lot more stable now than it was a year ago. Obama has nothing to do with the fact that there were no battle related casualties. Its the nature of the beast. Under Bush, we cleaned house.
As we saw a couple weeks ago, this small portion of the Constitution does not apply to Nebraska. They are allowed to pass the complete burden of their medicare expansion to all other states.
Name a single part of the current legislation that the right has anything to do with.
back to the name calling, typical liberal.
The bills were garbage to begin with, thats why dems were forced to bribe other dems to get them through their respective houses. This is also why there are several state Attys General that are looking into the legality of the Nebraska deal that got Nelson on board.
We've gone from single payer (as introduced by Ted Kennedy) to mandates for people to purchase private insurance. If these guys aren't going to lead (by introducing a better plan) or follow (by contributing constructive input), they should get out of the way.
Again, you completely ignore the fact that GOP has tried numerous times, in both houses of Congress, to introduce their own legislation. Not once were those bills every allowed to be formally introduced.
Give me one reason to want a single payer system? The massive debt is causes? The rationing? The lower quality care? The massively increased taxes?
Really Blender, your weak arguments have been refuted many times over, yet you still push them. Are these the only ones approved by Obama? Why not come up with something different. Something that would at least make me think for 30 seconds before writing it off as another slogan.
Jimmy you know its only "fair"
I see why I stay out of here now - you people are funny. You talk for 10 pages - yet NO ONE can be taught anything, even when it's presented in the way a 15 year old could understand. No1 is listening - every1 just talks. Fuck it. I'm ashamed that I got pulled back in here. Carry on.
It's back to the Kills-Forum and general car shit I guess.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
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