Simple question.
How will Obamacare lower costs to private insurers and their customers?
Supporters of Obamacare
Simple question.
How will Obamacare lower costs to private insurers and their customers?
It will by running them out of business in the long run, and then they wont have to pay those big scary insurance payments.....
Try not. Do or Do not.
That's a question that Congress cannot answer, so you expect IA to?Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
You two are pretty smart so I would assume you understand the initiative under a Public Option is not to benefit private insurers. Simple competition, get basic coverage or pay more for extensive coverage.. at the end of the day what matters under a public option is that everyone is able to obtain the health coverage that they need, cost of plans that benefit private insurers is hardly a priority. Sorry.
I'm sure eraser4g63 and BanginJimmy are not against a public option.
The problem is the plan itself, not the idea of a plan.
This one demands too much and provides too little. Its going to be impossible to fund. The literature makes it quite clear that private insurance will die quickly and we will all be left with one option.
This discussion is forever intriguing, in funding the invasion and reconstruction of Iraq the funds are justified, but healthcare for our own citizens and its impossible to fund. Do those of you against healthcare realize that we provide FREE health care for Iraqi and Afghan citizens but it is a problem to provide the same service for our own? Again.. intriguing.
I must have missed the part about Iraq in this thread. Don't make assumptions about peripheral topics.
I think I've made it clear in all my posts that I am not against my fellow man or social programs. I just want them executed correctly with minimal waste.
I never said I agreed with any of those things.
Free healthcare for Iraqi and Afghan citizens is an obvious by-product of us waging war in their country.
It is very much relevant, everyone has their opinion on how Universal Healthcare should be executed but at the end of the day all we can do is put our trust in the officials that we have elected. Personally, I think we should have a single payer system but as long as those who do not access to proper coverage are able to obtain it..I am satisfied.
Because companys, small and mid sized, will just pass there cost onto the customers....the customers that are either jobless, or having alot less hours equaling less pay. Meaning penny pinching...meaning if a company raises its cost to pay for the cost it incurs without laying someone off, means higher prices for the products.
Basically watching the news last night and they asked this same question. One guy they brought onto the show was the owner of a bakery, a very large bakery, with about 30 employee's said...best example...
"If we have a sheet cake that is better than the rest in our area for $20. We pass the cost onto the customer bringing the price up to $23. Whats to say that, that once customer doesnt go down the block to Wal-Mart/Kroger/Public/etc and get the same style cake, not near as good for $14? Just because they are already spending slightly more for a better product, but just dont want to spend even a bit more for the same thing?"
We all know that. It is designed to bankrupt private insurers.
You mean everyone but congress has to pay more for a better than basic plan. This does include a tax on better than basic plans also.
We all know this is the first step to the single payer system dems knew they couldnt force through congress on its own merits. Anyone with at least a 4th grade education can figure that out.
Back to your original misguided point though. Obama has said on numerous occasions that he wants to nationalize healthcare to bring down everyone's health insurance costs. So now that you dodged the question the first time. I'll ask you again. Name ANYTHING in this bill that will bring down costs to anyone.
Anyone can obtain insurance under the current system. It just depends on if you want to pay for it or not.
To the thread title. Those in favor should be shot in the face. /thread.
You haven't told anyone that those are my boobs in your avatar right? Wouldn't want people going crazy or anything...I know how you get jealous
fixed
I love how this thread has gotten absolutely zero relevant responses. I have no choice to believe that this is because there is nothing in the bill that will do anything to reduce costs for anyone.
The relevant response was that the bill was not created to benefit private insurers, plain and simple. You're not going to get the answer you're looking for because it doesn't exist.
So what you're saying is that they don't give two shits about the private insurers, which will in turn put them out of business giving us no choice and taking away another freedom. Thank you for your response. You just confirmed what everyone already knew abut the dems goals.
You have the freedom to pay for it, but I'm sure most people will go for the cheaper option. And I'm not a Dem, I just can't identify with the new Republican party.
But if there are few to no private insurers left in business does that still give us options? I also do not relate to a true right wing view. I swing a bit right however because I disagree with pretty much all left wing views, with the exception of a few.
Has the USPS put UPS and FedEx out of business? We all know the lesser quality that the USPS has but if you're cash strapped they get the job done.. the initiative is to get citizens who cannot afford health coverage to have it, not to line the profit margins of insurance companies.
Now finally we are to the original question. What will happen to the prices of private insurance once more people choose the cheaper and less people are getting better quality private? Of course it will go up. Which in turn will led to more and more people who can't afford private, which will in turn lead to even higher prices, leading to less customers till finally bankruptcy on their part. Unless they want to spend more tax money to bail them out again.So I hope that helps with a legitimate answer to your question Jimmy.
I don't see how you figure private insurance rates will rise? Competition brings prices lower, not raise them. For private insurance to raise rates would be shooting their selves in the foot, and if they go out of business they would have their selves to blame.
Competition = Lower Prices.. elementary economics.
No private business can compete with a government ran business that is why it is supposed to be unconstitutional for government to OWN or RUN businesses. Hence why i think it was wrong to bailout ANY private companies.
Its not the rate hikes that will do it. The bill itself has lit. that kills off private insurance.
This right here prevents insurers from getting new customers, and their current ones drop off if they change jobs.
Good ole' page 16.
Basically after a certain date (Y1) you can only buy Obamacare.
Finally. Hahahaha. Then why are premiums on the rise as less people can afford them. You don't think there is already competition in the insurance business. Simple economics don't always apply. As in this case. If simple economics always applied the govt wouldn't need advisors and professionals. Look at history. If less people enroll in your insurance plans, you have less money coming in. Well to keep the quality of service up you can't make severe cuts. To not make severe cuts you have to raise, not lower prices. You have to add more stipulations to your coverage, making it harder to actually get coverage, so you don't have to pay out too much. Insurance is not retail business. It does not work the same. You can't just lower your prices and expect everything to get better. If they lower their prices they may get more clients. More clients equals more payouts. More payouts plus less money equals crappier service. Crappier service equals less clients. Less clients plus less money equals bankrupt.
what will be real cool is when hospital salaries go down b/c of this...
i love less money so im happy
Exactly why nobody cares about the future of private insurance, healthcare is not meant for profit.. you just said it yourself.
From an economics standpoint it does not work the same, no. You don't think the government will profit from healthcare? Hahahahaha. They have simply made the bill so large that they have pulled the wool over everyones eyes. You nor I nor anyone else but the insiders truly know what this bill encompasses. It would take years for all the questions to be asked for everyone to truly understand it, which is why they are trying to push it through. That is what it all boils down to. There is no sense in debating things that none of us know all the details. The damn people in Washington voting on it don't even truly know every detail of it. It is damn wool, and it is over our eyes.
One thing alot of you are missing is like someone stated. This is going to lower the cost of doctors, nurses, and all those other medical people. Which will in turn, make some turn to private healthcare facilities. Hospitials and Clinics will see a HUGE increase in people coming in. Meaning most people will have there wait times double and triple. I mean if your sick one day you will need to make a appointment a few days out just to see the doctor. This will in turn, bring about TONS of private facilities. So one way or another this is going to kill either the public side, excluding hospitals, or the private side. Which in turn will force people to one area that they dont want to be, on top of kill alot of jobs.
Tony, since you have so much faith in the govt, why don't you name 1 govt progamof this type that actually works and is self sufficient. Social security is out. Congress bankrupted that. The same is true of medicare and medicaid. Post office is out. They require mnassive govt funding to stay afloat. That is on top of more than doubling the price of a stamp in the last 15 years or so.
We've had that discussion before of government programs and we established that if they didn't amount to your standards they were useless. My standards are do they meet the needs of the people and there are many programs, Veterans benefits, Department of Defense, Center for Disease Control, Environmental Protection Agency.. all of these work because on some level they meet the needs of the people. Government is viable, healthcare is not meant to be a highly profitable industry.. society benefits from affordable healthcare, not private corporations.
Is the government option actually going to compete with the insurance companies on all levels (e.g., "cadillac" plans). I was under the impression the government was only going to offer more basic coverage. Wouldn't that allow private insurance companies to still remain in business by providing more customized and more extensive plans no matter what price the government charged? Additionally, surely private companies can beat out the government on customer service right, doesn't that matter as well? Do people think the quality of private and public insurance will be the same? GM (government subsidized) doesn't put BMW out of business, what's different about this?
According to you, what industries should be allowed to make a profit?
ALL businesses are started to make a profit. It doesnt matter if they are going to manufacture a product, sell a product, or provide a service.
My standards are pretty easy. Do they provide a service that the private sector is not capable of providing? Are they run efficiently? Does the govt do eveything in their power to prevent fraud and waste?
OK
You obviously havent delt with the VA before. If you think a private insurer will try to screw you, you aint seen nothing yet.
A private company cannot possibly provide this service on the scale that is required and you know it. I might add that the DoD is so wrought with fraud, waste and corruption you would think it is the Illinois Gov Mansion. This is especially true of the contracting and acquisitions programs.
This is more of a clearing house for info and research. They dont provide a direct service to anyone outside of emergencies.
Nothing more than another govt regulatory body. They have little to nothing to do with private citizens outside of the abstract.
On some level the garbage man meets the needs of the people. Should that be nationalized also? Same with grocery stores, and home improvement stores. I guess Home Depot and Kroger should be worried huh?
Its not a highly profitable industry. Industry wide, he profit margin ranks #86.
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/...nks-86-by.html
So you are telling me that private sector jobs dont benefit society? I guess you mean that only govt provides jobs that benefit society? You might want to ask any laid off GM worker how he feels about that. I'm sure he would have a slightly different opinion.
Again I will ask,what provisions of the House bill will lower costs? Its a simple question and it should be a simple answer to anyone that supports this bill.
Something else I find intriguing is that hospitals must provide free health care to illegal immigrants in the US. Congress sets aside $1,000,000,000/year to cover this cost to the hospitals but it doesn't even begin to cover their costs..
Any program the government creates is not to provide competition.. It's to run everyone else out of business so as to make the gov. the sole provider of that service..Which will make everyone more dependent on Washington...If health care reform as imagined by the Democrats becomes law, you can forget any prospect of a shrinking tax burden, because every cent will be dedicated to feeding the ever-growing health-care entitlement maw.
Everyone seems to be stuck on the fact that their beliefs (Dem. or Rep.) are to defeat the other party..Which is retarded in my book. Oh yea, lets create something just to make the other party rant and rave about it just so we can lol at them while they're squirming.... WTF?
Ones that don't profit off of the fundamental needs of citizens, you want to make education a for profit sector too?
So no grocery stores, auto makers, gas companies, utilities, clothing companies, appliance makers, any medical, did i leave anything out. Come on Tony why would people go into business if not to make a profit. I would think you of all people, being someone who trades, would understand this. Not trying to be an ass just don't see where you are coming from.
Fundamental needs, as in police protection.. education. Your local water authority is usually funded by the local government, environmental protection, defense. None of this stuff is privatized for a reason, even welfare is needed so when I say fundamental needs I mean the stuff that all citizens struggle to maintain theirselves.So no grocery stores, auto makers, gas companies, utilities, clothing companies, appliance makers, any medical, did i leave anything out. Come on Tony why would people go into business if not to make a profit. I would think you of all people, being someone who trades, would understand this. Not trying to be an ass just don't see where you are coming from.
Health insurance isnt a need, its a product, just like a tooth brush or a couch. Anyone can go to any hospital any time for health care and because of previous legislation they cannot be denied care for any reason.
Name me ONE government agency that is well run. You cant, so I most assuredly don't want them messing with health care. My tax dollars shouldn't pay for illegal immigrants.
You haven't told anyone that those are my boobs in your avatar right? Wouldn't want people going crazy or anything...I know how you get jealous
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