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Thread: THE PRESIDENT WINS NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

  1. #121
    MEGATRON 112480's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony View Post
    The difference and why? About 7 years and 3 months. You want to compare a 2 term president's ratings to a 10 month president?

    Whats interesting about that graph is, Bush's approval ratings were on a decline till 9/11.. at a time when it was deemed unpatriotic to not support the administration (I'm sure that had NOTHING to do with his approval) then the decline picks up right where it left off when his 2nd term started and continued downward until the end of the graph in 2008.

    There is no excuse for bad leadership, and unfortunately Bush was a bad leader.. theres just no way around that and no graph is going to hide it.
    ^x2

    And thanx for clearing that up mike. LOL i was beginning to think u were a hardcore republican who bashes dems every chance u get and uphold republicans as the saviors of this country. But i will say despite all the numbers and charts that u show as ur "proof" of obama "failing" u haven't provided ONE chart that SOLEY points out how bad bush was. Sure we see it in the charts u show but that only because u are comparing him to clinton/obama or other past presidents. All i'm saying is that if u want to come from an "independent" side of things that u should point out republicans faults(such as bush and his father) and not JUST dems.

    Oh and about this whole clinton thing,(just to get off the subject for a mintue) let me say this. Growing up my father(now retired from GM, 30yrs!) loved it and made a lot of extra money from all the overtime when clinton was in office, but when bush got in there all the sudden plants were shutting down and going overseas all the overtime was cut out etc etc, but my dad just laugh and said "yea its the usual, everytime a dem is in office GM was ok, but let the repub come in and all the sudden there are problems.

    Yeah of course mike ur gonna say "well bush and his father had nothing to do with GM,Ford and Crysler situation" but as u say look deeper into it. How in THE hell r u gonna help stop american companies from shipping our job overseas when ur too busy starting wars to profit and take over other countries?? How in THE hell do u expect US(americans) to buy cars etc that r suppose to b soley american when they ship the jobs off to other countries and then when we dont support(or cant afford) these so called american cars they want to say we're unamerican! WTF! But dick cheney can contract certain companies he OWNS to build tanks and other war machines right after bush push things threw to invade other countries, i.e Iraq and the so call WOMD's???!!??

    What do u think about that mike? Mike how do u tell 1000's of GM,Ford and Crysler work that their problem is no big deal and they should b happy that the war in iraq might be settled one day so they should focus on that. how mike do u tell those families that other countries problems r more important than theirs?? When the last time u been to the Unemployment office?? Just like to see a little more i guess sympathy from u for other ppl's situation instead of looking at it from ur view.

    Yeah i agree that the "big three" should have been allowed to crash without any help from the taxpayers, BUT BUT BUT what will come of the workers(the real workers, ppl on the ground) and their familes if that were to happen?? McCain would have let that happen b/c he wouldnt have given a bailout. Obama did so the companies would have yet another chance to revive themselves so the families working for them will still have a chance for survival. Now how does that effect u???

    Imagine going to the store any store, getting parts, groceries etc etc and u get rob by a person who use to work for one of the big three, or other compaines in similar situations and the outcome didnt look to good for u. NOW if that person wasnt pressured to do such a thing then maybe u wouldnt have that problem at the time. SURE they had a choice to do that regardless of their personal situation, but see mike when ppl r in desprate situation they WILL do what they have to do to survive. A man with a family will not see his kids and wife on a street corner. it just wont happen. Everybody doesnt have those family member who will take them in, unemployment ran out on them, and noone has called them back for a job position etc etc. what would u do? ppl act stupid when they're hungry and homeless.

    Thats y even though we and our kids kids r going to pay for this stimulus for years and years to come at least for now it has help in certain ways neccessary from ppl attacking each other at a bigger rate than now!

    what do u think mike?
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  2. #122
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    Well im anti big government. Bush grew the government by an incredible size after 9/11, Obama grew it more.

    I was not Bushs #1 fan but i am also a business owner and a fiscal conservative. I think people give Bush a bad rap over things that really were not his fault and they dont understand WHY things happened the way they did.

    Take your point about shipping jobs overseas. This is not the first time i have had this argument. TELL ME HOW TO FIX IT. Lets build everything in america and ban all imports. Do you not understand how that is just a recipe for massive inflation in the first place?

    WHose to blame? Not Bush, its the American Consumer. We LOVE our $199 IPHONEs, $600 flat screen TVs, $199 Xbox/PS3, $300 surround sound systems, $30 DVD players, $200 laptops, $500 desktops, etc etc etc. Thats what we want. So like any good businessman would do, they supply the hunger aka demand.

    There is no way to manufacture INSIDE THE UNITED STATES and be competitive on a global market. Its NOT going to happen and theres 2 reasons why, SOUTH AMERICA and CHINA. they have the cheap labor force to mass produce items americans are buying. If we outlaw their stuff, you really think we can make it for the same price here? we CANT. Your iphone will become $1000 over night, your TV will become $4000 overnight, etc etc etc. So youll continue to make the same wage at your american job, but prices of goods will go up.

    We would have to compete against the chinese and south america, why do you think we cant? Because no american is going to do the work THEY do for $5/hr.

    Why do you think jobs go overseas in the first place? UNIONS. American car companies had NO CHOICE but to find ways to make more money. The unions as it has been shown time and time again crippled them. They could not be profitable. They could not compete against Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc. Why do you think that is true? COST, OVERHEAD, WORKERS salaries, etc. Simple story is they made too much money at GM and other domestic makers. But the workers didnt want paycuts, they expected to keep making the same money etc etc etc.

    Now i suppose someone will say that it was all the greedy CEOs keeping all the money for themselves, well who are you to tell someone that they make "too much money". IMO they tried it the UNIONs way and it doesnt work, time to start over.

    To the families, i feel for them, but thats life. Pick up and move on. You think our grandparents and greatgrandparents during the depression so oh whoa is me what am i supposed to do? no they dug themselves out and moved on. Our society doesnt want that, they want to blame someone else, and have the govt hand them money.
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  3. #123
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    I posted this over a year ago, basically sums up how i feel

    Facts are facts.



    Despite being at war and inheriting a real recession caused by .Com bubble burst and 9-11.



    Unemployment

    Clinton 8 years: 5.2

    Bush 7 years 5.18 (includes high recession years)



    GDP Growth

    Clinton 8 years 3.5

    Bush 7 years 2.4 (which includes the Recession Bush inherited from Clinton Administration)



    Home ownership:

    Clinton highest 67.8%

    CURRENT Bush 68.7%



    Although the economy cost Bush Senior his re-election campaign, history has proven that the recession in that era was eliminated BEFORE Clinton took office and in fact he got to ride a false .COM boom (it was real but it was not a fiscally solid boom)—a boom which burst and manifested itself in Bush’s numbers.



    Just another few things to consider:



    Our economy is outperforming all economies of similar countries—Europeans for example—this is a global downturn.



    The jobs we lost we can’t get back—we aren’t postured to compete with cheap labor goods.



    Have a serious discussion –it isn’t rocket science.



    Obama wants to raise tariffs to cause America to be more competitive in the US Market and create jobs—but what does that mean ?



    It means the Toy from China which cost 5 now and was made with 3 dollars an hour (or whatever) labor will now cost $ 8 –and at 8$ an US company can pay a US worker minimum wage and we can compete. The problem of course to the consumers is they now pay $8 bucks for the toy. A recipe for inflation. Anyone thinking the good old days for the Auto Industry can return is just crazy stupid—the only way we got competitive is by automation and decreasing manufacturing type jobs—basically doing only the assembly tasks. And unless you want to subsidize jobs here by paying higher prices this won’t work.



    Obama wants to raise taxes—history has proven raising taxes hurts the creation of jobs, capital and tax revenues—just a fact in the last 3 reduction of taxes, growth occurred and the resulting revenues were larger as a result. He can claim he is only going after the “rich” --while this is a lie, let’s agree it is true. What does a rich person do with more money? They create more wealth buy investing in the expansion of their business—sometimes it is in their business—other times it is in other luxury goods they buy. Do we want no more Rolls Royces to be made? But let’s be more specific and talk about the real folks he is going after—the small business folks making >250K. These folks are the source of the vast majority of our new jobs—you know the 8M new jobs Bush created in the recession/war time economy he inherited (let’s face it if the terrorists hadn’t done 9/11 we would not be in IRAQ—and clearly the 9/11 attacks are far more Clinton responsibility than Bush). Bush inherited a weak on security and recessive economy from Clinton—just facts no matter how the left spins it. But Bush’s tax cuts enabled small business’s to invest more in growth and grow faster as a result.



    Just think about it—we are so stupid—we give stimulus tax refund checks to only people who paid little or no taxes—and they spend it on energy costs or consumer goods. Not a bad thing—but if the purpose was to stimulate growth the rebates should have gone to real taxpayers, who might have used the money to grow their businesses—employ more folks, which by the way generates even more tax revenues—no wonder it had little effect. Sad truth is was a pathetic attempt by both Bush and Pelosi/Reid to bribe stupid Americans in to thinking they care and were thinking of them in an election year. Vote for sale--



    The rhetoric is just crazy –and the pea brains don’t bother to ask “how?”



    Another point to consider:



    The last time we had a liberal congress with a liberal President was Jimmy Carter—and this Congress is currently the worst in our history if you believe polls. Reagan was counter-balanced by Democrats in Congress and Clinton was counter-balanced Newt Gingrich led Congress. An Obama/Reid/Pelosi leadership team will be a disaster of enormous proportions.
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  4. #124
    EX Super Mod TIGERJC's Avatar
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    fake growth under bush. Clinton and bush are responsible for that problem
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    MEGATRON 112480's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Well im anti big government. Bush grew the government by an incredible size after 9/11, Obama grew it more.

    I was not Bushs #1 fan but i am also a business owner and a fiscal conservative. I think people give Bush a bad rap over things that really were not his fault and they dont understand WHY things happened the way they did.

    Take your point about shipping jobs overseas. This is not the first time i have had this argument. TELL ME HOW TO FIX IT. Lets build everything in america and ban all imports. Do you not understand how that is just a recipe for massive inflation in the first place?

    WHose to blame? Not Bush, its the American Consumer. We LOVE our $199 IPHONEs, $600 flat screen TVs, $199 Xbox/PS3, $300 surround sound systems, $30 DVD players, $200 laptops, $500 desktops, etc etc etc. Thats what we want. So like any good businessman would do, they supply the hunger aka demand.

    There is no way to manufacture INSIDE THE UNITED STATES and be competitive on a global market. Its NOT going to happen and theres 2 reasons why, SOUTH AMERICA and CHINA. they have the cheap labor force to mass produce items americans are buying. If we outlaw their stuff, you really think we can make it for the same price here? we CANT. Your iphone will become $1000 over night, your TV will become $4000 overnight, etc etc etc. So youll continue to make the same wage at your american job, but prices of goods will go up.

    We would have to compete against the chinese and south america, why do you think we cant? Because no american is going to do the work THEY do for $5/hr.

    Why do you think jobs go overseas in the first place? UNIONS. American car companies had NO CHOICE but to find ways to make more money. The unions as it has been shown time and time again crippled them. They could not be profitable. They could not compete against Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc. Why do you think that is true? COST, OVERHEAD, WORKERS salaries, etc. Simple story is they made too much money at GM and other domestic makers. But the workers didnt want paycuts, they expected to keep making the same money etc etc etc.

    Now i suppose someone will say that it was all the greedy CEOs keeping all the money for themselves, well who are you to tell someone that they make "too much money". IMO they tried it the UNIONs way and it doesnt work, time to start over.

    To the families, i feel for them, but thats life. Pick up and move on. You think our grandparents and greatgrandparents during the depression so oh whoa is me what am i supposed to do? no they dug themselves out and moved on. Our society doesnt want that, they want to blame someone else, and have the govt hand them money.
    This is true but not in all ways. Look I'm a business owner too and i understand but once ur company goes on a publicy traded market ur first obligation should b to the workers and their families cause without them u have no company! so yes their SHOULD B A CAP on CEO salaries on a pubilc traded company and YES the REAL workers shouldn't have to take a pay cut. And yes the Unions did cripple them BUT without the union the workers wouldnt have had their decent salaries anyway and other IMPORTANT benifits b/c the companies would give them NOTHING! I was with the union when i worked for GM and ket me tell u mike there is no WAY IN THIS WORLD OR THE NEXT that we would have the salaries and benifits that we had if it weren't for them. Were the unions all good? OF course NOT! they f-up PLENTY of times too but when it came down to the essential basic need of the worker in terms of pay and benifits and how their treated by management on the job they pulled threw!

    Their was SO MUCH stuff going on inside mike that u wouldnt believe!!

    Like i said i worked for GM for 7 years before owning my own business and let me tell u i am SO grateful that it went that route b/c if it didnt then i would be the heartless person as so many r today that r CEO's and that have their own big(or profitable) businesses, just toltally UNSYMPETATIC to other ppl's fiscal situations. Yes our grandparents and greatgrandparents pulled threw the depression, but in all fairness we ARE NOT them! It gets worse with time not better! U can only compare us to them for so long but the truth is at the end of the day mike NONE OF US ARE THEM!

    Now if someone else comes from another angle and say well Gregg since u own ur own business how do feel about obama rasing taxes on ur small business? If it will in some way help the less unfortunate, then i would welcome it, no matter if it goes toward healthcare, education, unemployment anything helpful to ppl who REALLY need it. If more ppl took that step then it would b less b.s going on, but then again thats not reality cause everyone is in it for themselves, BUT out of the mist of it all SOMEONE has got to care.

    and on the shipping jobs overseas to S.America/china i know about all that! Our plant here in GA was shut down, not b/c we just building outdated Cargo Vans, but basically GM decided to ship it overseas to get that $5/hr labor, but let me ask u this mike........

    Am i wrong for not buying that shit that they bring back over here when it was taking away from me and SO MANY others?? GM took our $20+/hr jobs away from us to send that vehicle over to another country to get build for $5/hr then ship it back and expect us to buy it at $25-30,000! when we're now making $7-10/hr LOL!!!! Come on! U say if all the iphone,HD tv's etc etc were built here that inflation would shoot threw the roof and prices would b so high that even with our $20+/hr jobs we couldn't afford it? I say to u whats the difference? Yes the iphone is $300 b/c its built at a lower manufacture rate outside the U.S BUT BUT if i'm now making $7-10/hr!! how in the HELL can i afford that shit when i have two kids, house bills, car note, insurance, phone bill, etc etc etc bringing in $150-200 a week? Whats the difference mike???

    UR move mike.........
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    Certified Gearhead zspeed24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 112480 View Post
    This is true but not in all ways. Look I'm a business owner too and i understand but once ur company goes on a publicy traded market ur first obligation should b to the workers and their families cause without them u have no company! so yes their SHOULD B A CAP on CEO salaries on a pubilc traded company and YES the REAL workers shouldn't have to take a pay cut. And yes the Unions did cripple them BUT without the union the workers wouldnt have had their decent salaries anyway and other IMPORTANT benifits b/c the companies would give them NOTHING! I was with the union when i worked for GM and ket me tell u mike there is no WAY IN THIS WORLD OR THE NEXT that we would have the salaries and benifits that we had if it weren't for them. Were the unions all good? OF course NOT! they f-up PLENTY of times too but when it came down to the essential basic need of the worker in terms of pay and benifits and how their treated by management on the job they pulled threw!

    Their was SO MUCH stuff going on inside mike that u wouldnt believe!!

    Like i said i worked for GM for 7 years before owning my own business and let me tell u i am SO grateful that it went that route b/c if it didnt then i would be the heartless person as so many r today that r CEO's and that have their own big(or profitable) businesses, just toltally UNSYMPETATIC to other ppl's fiscal situations. Yes our grandparents and greatgrandparents pulled threw the depression, but in all fairness we ARE NOT them! It gets worse with time not better! U can only compare us to them for so long but the truth is at the end of the day mike NONE OF US ARE THEM!

    Now if someone else comes from another angle and say well Gregg since u own ur own business how do feel about obama rasing taxes on ur small business? If it will in some way help the less unfortunate, then i would welcome it, no matter if it goes toward healthcare, education, unemployment anything helpful to ppl who REALLY need it. If more ppl took that step then it would b less b.s going on, but then again thats not reality cause everyone is in it for themselves, BUT out of the mist of it all SOMEONE has got to care.

    and on the shipping jobs overseas to S.America/china i know about all that! Our plant here in GA was shut down, not b/c we just building outdated Cargo Vans, but basically GM decided to ship it overseas to get that $5/hr labor, but let me ask u this mike........

    Am i wrong for not buying that shit that they bring back over here when it was taking away from me and SO MANY others?? GM took our $20+/hr jobs away from us to send that vehicle over to another country to get build for $5/hr then ship it back and expect us to buy it at $25-30,000! when we're now making $7-10/hr LOL!!!! Come on! U say if all the iphone,HD tv's etc etc were built here that inflation would shoot threw the roof and prices would b so high that even with our $20+/hr jobs we couldn't afford it? I say to u whats the difference? Yes the iphone is $300 b/c its built at a lower manufacture rate outside the U.S BUT BUT if i'm now making $7-10/hr!! how in the HELL can i afford that shit when i have two kids, house bills, car note, insurance, phone bill, etc etc etc bringing in $150-200 a week? Whats the difference mike???

    UR move mike.........

    A publicly traded company's ONLY responsibility is to their stockholders most of which are EMPLOYEES. My grandfather started in the manufacturing field at Caterpillar. He decided to move on and start his own business making parts for them because of the UAW. He was forced to strike within the first six months of being employed and when it came time for the union to step in and help they turned thier backs on the people they were supposed to help. This still goes on 50 years latter. In my home town well over 50% of the people that live there lose nearly everything they have everytime contract renewals come up. I know plenty of them that work there and most of these people don't want to strike because they are satisfied with the money (I'd be happy with the 20-40 dollars an hour they make too) that they are earning already. It is the unions that are showing thier greed because they know the higher wages go the more money they will make.

    You cannot tell me that you would be ok if the government came in to your business and said look i know you are working really hard but we think that you should only bring home 50,000 this year. Guess what the day they do that at my business will be the last day my doors will be open. I work for myself so that I can prosper.

    Owning a small business i'm sure you understand that we don't pay taxes, right? It is considered a cost of good sold and is passed on through lower wages and higher product cost.


  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by zspeed24 View Post
    A publicly traded company's ONLY responsibility is to their stockholders most of which are EMPLOYEES.
    Whoa whoa whoa, lets get that statement straight. Every company has a responsibility to their STAKEHOLDERS not stockholders. Meaning everyone who has a stake in that company is to be considered, that includes employees, customers, management, even the community in which it serves. A corporation cannot use the resources of the community, turn a profit and then say they have no responsibility on those who benefit or suffer from their business. That line of thinking is part of the problem now, the lack of understanding of business ethics.

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    Stereo Junkie TSiFTW's Avatar
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    Actually publicly traded corporations 1st and foremost responsibility IS to protect the investment of the stockholders. People need to learn by the real world not what the teachers, books, and television tells you. When are some people gonna wake up and smell the roses. Even small to medium sized businesses with investors first order of business is to make the investors happy. Cause guess what happens if you don't, you LOSE your backing, your money, your business, your livelyhood. So anyone that thinks a major corporation actually puts the people, towns, employees, etc. first is just naive. Large corporations have a customer base, their employees are expendable, and Wal Mart is a prime example of how much a major corporation actually gives a damn about the towns and citizens, when they go public. It's all about the money man. Always has been, always will be.

  9. #129
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 112480 View Post

    UR move mike.........

    Its really just a fundamental difference of opinions. Im in favor of protecting the business owners, as well as making sure the employees are paid what they are WORTH. Im in favor of tax cuts for the people that pay the most in taxes. Im in favor of small government that doesnt interfere in personal citizens lives. Im in favor of being seen as pro-active in protecting our interests regardless of what the world thinks.

    Instead of wondering why our jobs are going overseas, we need to be letting the chinese and indias of the world have those jobs. We should be doing the highly technical fields that they cant do. But look at our college grad stats and they are horrible.

    Ambition is what drives this country, or did. Not complacency. I want the guy ambitious enough to make 5 million dollars a year. I want the guy willing to risk it all on an idea to make himself a millionaire. Historically speaking, those multi million dollar CEOs are employing YOU or were at one time in your life. Dont you think they know their bottom line for than you do?

    The simple truth is people have been making more an more money over the last 20-30 years than any other country in the world. Our people make THE MOST MONEY of anyone, but yet we want to raise the cost of goods to somehow "keep up" with china?

    Those days are over with and they are not coming back. China owns most of our T-bills and debt, as long as they have that, we wont get in a trade war with them as that would cripple our dollar overnight.

    Like i have always said, the world needs $20,000 a year jobs, some people make it, some people dont. Its life. Not everyone can be on the same level making awesome money and living it up.

    You obviously got laid off i assume from GM. Sucks, but did you sit around and cry about it? no, sounds like you went off and became an entrepeneur. GOOD! Thats awesome , its not easy i know, but you are trying to do something with your life, so what happens in 15 years when you are making $500,000 a year and you retire. "Obama" comes in an says "youre making too much Gregg, you are going to have to make less money, provide free healthcare to your employees, and oh im gonna have to tax you a little more too, hope it works out!"
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    MEGATRON 112480's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Its really just a fundamental difference of opinions. Im in favor of protecting the business owners, as well as making sure the employees are paid what they are WORTH. Im in favor of tax cuts for the people that pay the most in taxes. Im in favor of small government that doesnt interfere in personal citizens lives. Im in favor of being seen as pro-active in protecting our interests regardless of what the world thinks.

    Instead of wondering why our jobs are going overseas, we need to be letting the chinese and indias of the world have those jobs. We should be doing the highly technical fields that they cant do. But look at our college grad stats and they are horrible.

    Ambition is what drives this country, or did. Not complacency. I want the guy ambitious enough to make 5 million dollars a year. I want the guy willing to risk it all on an idea to make himself a millionaire. Historically speaking, those multi million dollar CEOs are employing YOU or were at one time in your life. Dont you think they know their bottom line for than you do?

    The simple truth is people have been making more an more money over the last 20-30 years than any other country in the world. Our people make THE MOST MONEY of anyone, but yet we want to raise the cost of goods to somehow "keep up" with china?

    Those days are over with and they are not coming back. China owns most of our T-bills and debt, as long as they have that, we wont get in a trade war with them as that would cripple our dollar overnight.

    Like i have always said, the world needs $20,000 a year jobs, some people make it, some people dont. Its life. Not everyone can be on the same level making awesome money and living it up.

    You obviously got laid off i assume from GM. Sucks, but did you sit around and cry about it? no, sounds like you went off and became an entrepeneur. GOOD! Thats awesome , its not easy i know, but you are trying to do something with your life, so what happens in 15 years when you are making $500,000 a year and you retire. "Obama" comes in an says "youre making too much Gregg, you are going to have to make less money, provide free healthcare to your employees, and oh im gonna have to tax you a little more too, hope it works out!"
    Understandable, BUT! see theirs always a but. It would be nice if everyone would strive to own their own business and let the rest of the world have the 20,000 labor jobs BUT thats not reality. As u stated mike look at our education system as a whole! There arent nearly enough ivy and other prestigus schools to shadow the poor education system in this country. This country(unfortunately) NEEDS those jobs they send over seas cause not every has that drive or will to become the next CEO or project manager or CFO,COO, directors etc etc. I undertsand what obama is saying to us, the business owners,BUT! its kinda hard for me to enjoy the fruits of my hard earned labor,business wise, when i go down the street from my half or a million dollar house and u got ppl waiting to rob u b/c u have what they dont have.

    B/c u did something with yourself instead of wallowing in ur what i like to call lazyness, they want to take it. Maybe its just me mike, but i didnt grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth(not applying u did either) so i look at this in a different perspective. even flourishing in my business and becoming a millionare one day, i will still have that poor-middle class attitude embeded in me. Not the "oh my god i just got laid off and the CEO r sucking it up, feeling sorry for myself and angry at them", but the part of if i work hard for what i want it will cpme to pass one day, BUT many ppl here dont think that way. They just want a paycheck. Point them to the clock, let them punch in and out and give them they check at the end of the week. The dont want the high end technical position that u speak of, just there 40hrs a week and a check.

    Thats what i'm talking about. And when u take that from them, what else do they have to survive off of??? Mike when u say u feel for the families, what excatly do u mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zspeed24 View Post
    A publicly traded company's ONLY responsibility is to their stockholders most of which are EMPLOYEES. My grandfather started in the manufacturing field at Caterpillar. He decided to move on and start his own business making parts for them because of the UAW. He was forced to strike within the first six months of being employed and when it came time for the union to step in and help they turned thier backs on the people they were supposed to help. This still goes on 50 years latter. In my home town well over 50% of the people that live there lose nearly everything they have everytime contract renewals come up. I know plenty of them that work there and most of these people don't want to strike because they are satisfied with the money (I'd be happy with the 20-40 dollars an hour they make too) that they are earning already. It is the unions that are showing thier greed because they know the higher wages go the more money they will make.

    You cannot tell me that you would be ok if the government came in to your business and said look i know you are working really hard but we think that you should only bring home 50,000 this year. Guess what the day they do that at my business will be the last day my doors will be open. I work for myself so that I can prosper.

    Owning a small business i'm sure you understand that we don't pay taxes, right? It is considered a cost of good sold and is passed on through lower wages and higher product cost.

    And the workers r the EMPLOYEES. And i know all to well about the UAW, remember i said they messed up PLENTY of times. Yes at times when u need them they wouldn't have ur back but as i said at the basic timing of wages and benifits they were there to push it threw. Yes in big part of b/c if they get us more money, they get more in union dues, BUT we got what we wanted as well. We went threw the same problems here at the GM plant, went threw it for 7 years so i know.

    Yes obama is basically saying if u make so much then he's gonna tax u higher(he cant put a cap on ur profit) BUT IF and thats a big IF,if it goes to places such as healthcare and unemployment etc, then that would make me feel a little better when i go places and dont have to worry about being robbed, cause if u notice, lately these ppl have been going to the $500k+ neighborhoods now when they just normally stay on the other bad sides of town. See its a diff in being robbed by a person b/c he wants what u got and dont want to go out and get it on his own vs. a person robbing u b/c he lost his job,unemployment benifits cut out, IRA and other accounts exhausted etc, wife left him and so on.

    The first idiot u can typical avoid by not going into those areas where the population is at a poor level, but the second guy might b harder to spot cause he could b anywhere! Including ur neighbor of 10+ years that had it all and now has nothing and can't get anything. do u think he's going on the street corner? i dont think so.
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    Mike another off the topic question, why do u think an Independent will NEVER win a position as president?? BTW mike i'm a franchise owner with JAN-PRO Cleaning System of Atlanta and have a good number of accounts, but always need/want more. So if u know anybody in need of a cleaning service for their facility please mention my name and give them my number: 678-362-1866

    I have everything from doctors offices, to corporate offices to banks. lmk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Ambition is what drives this country, or did. Not complacency. I want the guy ambitious enough to make 5 million dollars a year. I want the guy willing to risk it all on an idea to make himself a millionaire.
    I like this statement u made mike, hell dont we all, but heres my question to that, WHERE R THESE PPL??????? All i see are ppl that just want their 40hrs and a check at the end of the week and now they dont have that.
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    It takes capital to start up a business, and capital is in short supply nowadays. I think there are a lot more "ambitious" people out there than you think, but many of them are just struggling to get decent compensation for their 40 hours until they can get something started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Total_Blender View Post
    It takes capital to start up a business, and capital is in short supply nowadays. I think there are a lot more "ambitious" people out there than you think, but many of them are just struggling to get decent compensation for their 40 hours until they can get something started.
    define "decent compensation"

    Our workers make the most of anyone in the world

    Our workers have the best healthcare in the world

    Our workers have grown the most in wealth in the last 30 years than anyone else(meaning they made more money and advanced higher in their career fields than anyone else).

    I would venture to say they have the best pensions and retirement plans in the world too although i have no figures for that.

    What more do you want?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post

    What more do you want?
    We might "make the most" but when you look at the value of our dollar and what we actually get for it, we're probably not that much better off. Also, we work more hours per week than Europe (good for us IMO), their full-time work week is 30-35 hours IIRC.

    And as far as the "best health care in the world," I will agree with you that the standards of the care itself are very high. But so is the price, so while Americans have the best care, very few of them can afford said care. 46 million are uninsured. The rest of the industrialized world has universal coverage almost across the board. They are more physically fit, live longer, have lower infant mortality, etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Total_Blender View Post
    We might "make the most" but when you look at the value of our dollar and what we actually get for it, we're probably not that much better off. Also, we work more hours per week than Europe (good for us IMO), their full-time work week is 30-35 hours IIRC.

    And as far as the "best health care in the world," I will agree with you that the standards of the care itself are very high. But so is the price, so while Americans have the best care, very few of them can afford said care. 46 million are uninsured. The rest of the industrialized world has universal coverage almost across the board. They are more physically fit, live longer, have lower infant mortality, etc etc.


    1) pick a number and stick with it (not you personally but anyone that wants to talk about healthcare) It ranges from 12-50 million depending on who you are talking about. I dont count illegal immigrants so you can knock 12-18 Million off that 46 from the jump.

    2) Live longer and "in better health" is false.


    Wasnt aware the value of our dollar has been so low all this time (past 30 years).

    I would say we pay the lowest for our goods as well in terms of food, clothing, entertainment, gasoline, cars , etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    I would say we pay the lowest for our goods as well in terms of food, clothing, entertainment, gasoline, cars , etc
    Yes mike BUT! recently our $20+ plus jobs have gone bye bye and now we're making $7-10/hr so that so called lowest goods is now EXPENSIVE for us. And like u said we have the best healthcare system BUT thats only if u can afford it! U got to remember mike that 20-30 million ppl are uninsured + u have those that r underinsured as well. In the past 30years we were the best paid workers but NOW! NO!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    define "decent compensation"
    About $12-15/hr and those jobs are VERY VERY hard to get!




    I would venture to say they have the best pensions and retirement plans in the world too although i have no figures for that.
    HA! Mike SHOW ME what companies have pensions and retirement plans now. Ur lucky if u can keep ur job more than 5 years let alone a 30year pension plan.

    Oh mike, mike if only u knew whats really going on in the real world of american labor workers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Total_Blender View Post
    Whats to fall for? How does the Nobel affect anything? How many people on this board can name all the recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize off the top of their heads without using Wikipedia?

    In the grand scheme of things, nobody follows/pays attention to the Nobel. Add a buck fifty to it and maybe it will get you a cup of coffee. The only reason the right is even concerned with this is because there are some who feel the need to make snotty comments every single time his name is mentioned.
    i don't like hardly ant poloticians not just obamammama.
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