Obama's "impartial" town hall meeting...

[preferredduck]

She is divorcing and unemployed and she does NOT want a government solution.

So I take it she won't be choosing to receive unemployment compensation then?

One thing I will nitpick about Obama's stance on healthcare is that he's pretty much guaranteeing people that they can keep their existing plans. But really, the details with particular plans are up to employers/insurance companies. So people can keep their plans as long as the employers choose to provide them. But most insurance plans are raising premiums and cutting coverage, I know the insurance here did that last year (before the election, mind you). I was going to sign up for insurance... before they pulled a dick move on us.

So while we are getting the rug pulled out from under us by our insurance, we're also getting furloughs, which puts me even urther away from getting private insurance. So a public option, or some kind of subsidy voucher would be awesome in my particular case.

The people I really feel bad for are those here who make less than I do and have families to support. Between the furloughs, the rising costs of insurance, and the inflation rate, these people have been pretty much thrown to the wolves.

The main cost saving points of the bill are compromises with the insurance companies and drug companies that end government subsidies payed out to big pharma and big insurance. That will cut something like 80 billion, and the rest of the money is money that is already in the system... just shuffled around. They are saying it won't increase the deficit.

Anyway, the status quo is just not a sustainable option. And I don't see how the Teabaggers/Astroturfers/Deathers add anything to the debate except empty rhetoric about how "government is bad" and misimpretations of the Constitution that forget the commerce clause or the elastic clause.

here is one thing obama keeps saying is people will have to pay for the gov't insurance like a premium. most of the uninsured could not afford an extra $10 a month for healthcare so how would that work. then there would be a copay of sorts, deductables, etc.

and honestly do you think the insurance companies would be endorsing the plan if they are not making a chunk of money somehow. look at medicare and medicaid. they are both in the same cookie jar with insurance companies. united healthcare does alot of medicare work along with BCBS. also there really isn't this great plan set in stone and the tab on the bill is outragous.

-on that note would you loan me $20,000 for a business idea i have involving making greener cars. it will improve mileage and cut down greenhouse gases and save the planet. loan it to me no now now and i'll tell you more about it after you give me the money. does that sound familiar, like a bailout maybe.

[Total_Blender]

here is one thing obama keeps saying is people will have to pay for the gov't insurance like a premium. most of the uninsured could not afford an extra $10 a month for healthcare so how would that work. then there would be a copay of sorts, deductables, etc.
.

I can almost afford health insurance. Really I could afford it now, but I would have to go on food stamps. Eventually I will get to the point where I can afford it, once I get my degree in December and hopefully the pay-grade increase (or a move to a better job) that comes with it for Fy '11.

I wouldn't mind paying a small premium, maybe 1/2 or even 3/4 what the insurance my employer offers costs. I am not expecting to get something for free.

[BanginJimmy]

I would like a new XLR for the same payment as an Aveo too. Should the govtr subsidize that also?

[Total_Blender]

I would like a new XLR for the same payment as an Aveo too. Should the govtr subsidize that also?

Depends on whether you're trade in qualifies.

[zspeed24]

Why should the govt. have to pay for even part of your health care or your food for that matter. If you cannot afford the things you need shouldn't you work harder find a better paying job or maybe even work a second part time job.

[BanginJimmy]

Depends on whether you're trade in qualifies.

Touche

[ultm8mind]

They've failed to put out the clause that the same politicians putting this Health Care Plan into effect are exempt from it (to include the Pres.)......food for thought

[ultm8mind]

Why should the govt. have to pay for even part of your health care or your food for that matter. If you cannot afford the things you need shouldn't you work harder find a better paying job or maybe even work a second part time job.

Are you serious?

[BanginJimmy]

Are you serious?

Yea cause expecting people to take care of themselves is just a crazy statement.

[zspeed24]

Are you serious?

As a matter of fact I am i would much rather sit at home and get free money but instead i choose to work 60-70 hours a week so i can provide for my family pay our bills buy our food and guess what we pay for our own health care too, out of our own pocket!

[Total_Blender]

If you cannot afford the things you need shouldn't you work harder find a better paying job or maybe even work a second part time job.

Working harder isn't going to benefit me as far as salary goes until the end of the fiscal year when raises are handed out. Really, we're all getting furloughs which are pretty much the same as a 3%-6% pay cut. No one in a non-administrative position got a raise for FY09 and '10 is doubtful for raises as well.

All the while the administration is telling us to "continue to work at maximum efficiency". Our president, meanwhile, got a raise that amounts to double my salary. Its god damn heartwarming to know that GA's largest university is being run like AIG, let me tell you.

As far as better paying jobs go, the whole university system is pretty much in a hiring freeze. So I there are no jobs available in my field at all. I'm lucky to have a job at all. Three people above me just left, and they aren't even going to open those positions because there is no money for those salaries. So as far as "work harder" goes... I've got that covered since I have to do their work now.

I can't change fields because my job is paying for school full ride (which is the only benefit I have thats worth a damn).

Second job is impossible right now because I'm already doing full time work and half time school. I did have a second job last year and made awesome money then, but I need to finish school if I want any sort of career advancement.

[TSiFTW]

Are you serious?

I can foresee a great future for you. I would think with your age and career you would have a better outlook than that. And on a serious note, thank you for serving our country. Seriously.

[TSiFTW]

Working harder isn't going to benefit me as far as salary goes until the end of the fiscal year when raises are handed out. Really, we're all getting furloughs which are pretty much the same as a 3%-6% pay cut. No one in a non-administrative position got a raise for FY09 and '10 is doubtful for raises as well.

All the while the administration is telling us to "continue to work at maximum efficiency". Our president, meanwhile, got a raise that amounts to double my salary. Its god damn heartwarming to know that GA's largest university is being run like AIG, let me tell you.

As far as better paying jobs go, the whole university system is pretty much in a hiring freeze. So I there are no jobs available in my field at all. I'm lucky to have a job at all. Three people above me just left, and they aren't even going to open those positions because there is no money for those salaries. So as far as "work harder" goes... I've got that covered since I have to do their work now.

I can't change fields because my job is paying for school full ride (which is the only benefit I have thats worth a damn).

Second job is impossible right now because I'm already doing full time work and half time school. I did have a second job last year and made awesome money then, but I need to finish school if I want any sort of career advancement.

I am sorry, but if I have to work 3 jobs to make sure my family is taken care of then so be it. I want no handouts from anyone. I feel sorry for a lot of people if something ever happened and it reverted back to a fend for yourself world. I just have to much pride for it. If I was forced too then I would take disability, but I would never take welfare because I didn't wanna try harder. I would rather sleep under a bridge.

[ultm8mind]

I can foresee a great future for you.

I, my friend, am very successful. On the other hand not everyone is as fortunate as me. I was speaking for those who are unemployed trying to get a job and just can't. But hey, think what you want cause you are obviously a millionaire.

[TSiFTW]

I, my friend, am very successful. On the other hand not everyone is as fortunate as me. I was speaking for those who are unemployed trying to get a job and just can't. But hey, think what you want cause you are obviously a millionaire.

Is it beneath anyone to get a second part time job at anywhere they can find though? I think not. If I had to there are numerous places within 5 miles of me that hire all the time. Yea some might be fast food, but if a little money helps take care of my family then so be it. If you have nothing then a little is better. At least you can feel proud for earning it instead of having it given to you. Also read my edit on my earlier post you quoted.

[zspeed24]

Working harder isn't going to benefit me as far as salary goes until the end of the fiscal year when raises are handed out. Really, we're all getting furloughs which are pretty much the same as a 3%-6% pay cut. No one in a non-administrative position got a raise for FY09 and '10 is doubtful for raises as well.

All the while the administration is telling us to "continue to work at maximum efficiency". Our president, meanwhile, got a raise that amounts to double my salary. Its god damn heartwarming to know that GA's largest university is being run like AIG, let me tell you.

As far as better paying jobs go, the whole university system is pretty much in a hiring freeze. So I there are no jobs available in my field at all. I'm lucky to have a job at all. Three people above me just left, and they aren't even going to open those positions because there is no money for those salaries. So as far as "work harder" goes... I've got that covered since I have to do their work now.

I can't change fields because my job is paying for school full ride (which is the only benefit I have thats worth a damn).

Second job is impossible right now because I'm already doing full time work and half time school. I did have a second job last year and made awesome money then, but I need to finish school if I want any sort of career advancement.

You are still making the CHOICE to stay where you are. And more than likely the three peoples jobs that you are now doing probably should have been done by one person anyway and that is why they are not hiring anyone. Its like the UAW workers is there really a need for one guy to turn a wrench and another to wait and see if person #1 drops the wrench so that person #2 can pick up the wrench... NO!!! Our generation has been trained to be lazy and its way past time for people to learn what REAL work is again!!!!!

[TSiFTW]

You are still making the CHOICE to stay where you are. And more than likely the three peoples jobs that you are now doing probably should have been done by one person anyway and that is why they are not hiring anyone. Its like the UAW workers is there really a need for one guy to turn a wrench and another to wait and see if person #1 drops the wrench so that person #2 can pick up the wrench... NO!!! Our generation has been trained to be lazy and its way past time for people to learn what REAL work is again!!!!!

Oh lawd. Please lets not get started on the piece of crap Unions. Tis bad enough it got started on the waste that is Welfare.

[Total_Blender]

I am sorry, but if I have to work 3 jobs to make sure my family is taken care of then so be it. I want no handouts from anyone. I feel sorry for a lot of people if something ever happened and it reverted back to a fend for yourself world. I just have to much pride for it. If I was forced too then I would take disability, but I would never take welfare because I didn't wanna try harder. I would rather sleep under a bridge.

I never said I had a family Space Cadet. All that will come later when I finish school, buy a home, have proper health care (however I have to get it), etc.

I'm all about self-sufficiency, and I'm working as hard as I can to support myself with long term goals. But at the same time I know there are people in worse circumstances than I am and I would like to think more can be done for them that telling them to sleep under a bridge or some shit. I don't have the "I'm better than you because I'm better off" mentality that most people on the right seem to have.

[ultm8mind]

Is it beneath anyone to get a second part time job at anywhere they can find though? I think not. If I had to there are numerous places within 5 miles of me that hire all the time. Yea some might be fast food, but if a little money helps take care of my family then so be it. If you have nothing then a little is better. At least you can feel proud for earning it instead of having it given to you. Also read my edit on my earlier post you quoted.

I saw it man, thanks. I think alot of people think it is beneath them to work at a fast food place. Is it beneath me? Not at all, by no means would I allow my family to suffer. As for my outlook on this subject, it doesn't come from me ever taking a handout. EVER, but there are some that need it. There are also the MAJORITY who need to get off their asses and get a job, regardless of the job it is. Get two if you need to, I have before. But like I said, I didn't voice out for me, I spoke because good jobs seem to be getting scarce. I don't have to worry about it but see those who do.
If I had to I'd start at the bottom, it would suck but I've been the low man on the totem pole before, I am not anymore, but I've been there. I now lead Soldiers into combat, just got back less than a year ago and will be going back again this fall. So, trust me, my money is earned and yes I get upset by the people that are abusing the system, but I cannot do anything about that....

[TSiFTW]

I saw it man, thanks. I think alot of people think it is beneath them to work at a fast food place. Is it beneath me? Not at all, by no means would I allow my family to suffer. As for my outlook on this subject, it doesn't come from me ever taking a handout. EVER, but there are some that need it. There are also the MAJORITY who need to get off their asses and get a job, regardless of the job it is. Get two if you need to, I have before. But like I said, I didn't voice out for me, I spoke because good jobs seem to be getting scarce. I don't have to worry about it but see those who do.
If I had to I'd start at the bottom, it would suck but I've been the low man on the totem pole before, I am not anymore, but I've been there. I now lead Soldiers into combat, just got back less than a year ago and will be going back again this fall. So, trust me, my money is earned and yes I get upset by the people that are abusing the system, but I cannot do anything about that....

It sucks to see the system abused. I figured you were doing ok. That is why I edited the post. I wont argue some people may need it, I just hate to see it abused.

[Total_Blender]

its way past time for people to learn what REAL work is again!!!!!

Please tell me what REAL WORK is because I so want to know what you (and the rest of the right wing) are doing that is more legitimate work than what I do, or what the people here who take out the trash, mop the floors, and scrub the toilets do.

I'm guessing that most of you guys work in an office setting given your ability to respond to my posts during worktime hours. How is what you right-wingers all do work and what I do not work when we probably have very similar tasks? I'm guessing we are all sitting in front of computers sorting through screens full of numbers, correct?

[TSiFTW]

I never said I had a family Space Cadet. All that will come later when I finish school, buy a home, have proper health care (however I have to get it), etc.

I'm all about self-sufficiency, and I'm working as hard as I can to support myself with long term goals. But at the same time I know there are people in worse circumstances than I am and I would like to think more can be done for them that telling them to sleep under a bridge or some shit. I don't have the "I'm better than you because I'm better off" mentality that most people on the right seem to have.

At least you try. That is all I ask. Seeing the welfare system abused enrages me probably more than anything else in this world though. I am a pretty relaxed chill guy that will listen to all sides, but I cannot stand to see people highly capable of working that refuse too because the Government gives them there "check". This issue opens up a whole other can of worms for me though and I do not have the time or patience to talk about it on IA, so I am through with this topic for now.

[ultm8mind]

I hear you the abusers need to be dropped off the Life Support System our government has put in place. The ones who need it can stay on it. It is upsetting, almost as upsetting as a fat person on the scooters in Walmart, or wait as equally upsetting. U.S. has gotten out of control with this type of stuff....

[TSiFTW]

Please tell me what REAL WORK is because I so want to know what you (and the rest of the right wing) are doing that is more legitimate work than what I do, or what the people here who take out the trash, mop the floors, and scrub the toilets do.

I'm guessing that most of you guys work in an office setting given your ability to respond to my posts during worktime hours. How is what you right-wingers all do work and what I do not work when we probably have very similar tasks? I'm guessing we are all sitting in front of computers sorting through screens full of numbers, correct?

Dude. Really? If you just weren't looking for an argument from the "right-wingers" which I happen to know he IS NOT(a hardcore right, just swings slightly right on most topics), and actually take time to read the posts and comprehend them you would fully see he is talking in general not to YOU. He probably realizes you work and have a good job.

[ultm8mind]

Please tell me what REAL WORK is because I so want to know what you (and the rest of the right wing) are doing that is more legitimate work than what I do, or what the people here who take out the trash, mop the floors, and scrub the toilets do.

I'm guessing that most of you guys work in an office setting given your ability to respond to my posts during worktime hours. How is what you right-wingers all do work and what I do not work when we probably have very similar tasks? I'm guessing we are all sitting in front of computers sorting through screens full of numbers, correct?

....before I go. I'll let you know what I do. I am in the Army, and this week we are prepping for Iraq. Is that a worthy occupation? It was my lunch break; my time to check what new tasks needed to be done and ofcourse I get to check this out. But hopefully my job is a REAL WORKING job, maybe not, I don't know......

[TSiFTW]

....before I go. I'll let you know what I do. I am in the Army, and this week we are prepping for Iraq. Is that a worthy occupation? It was my lunch break; my time to check what new tasks needed to be done and ofcourse I get to check this out. But hopefully my job is a REAL WORKING job, maybe not, I don't know......

As long as you work and try your best you are all right with me.

[Total_Blender]

But hopefully my job is a REAL WORKING job, maybe not, I don't know......

We're cool man, I wasn't talking to any of you guys specifically. Personally I believe the military deserve everything they get.

I've had 3 jobs at one time before. And I would have 2 now if I wasn't in school. To me theres a sharp distinction between a job and a career, and I'm shooting for the latter.

[zspeed24]

Please tell me what REAL WORK is because I so want to know what you (and the rest of the right wing) are doing that is more legitimate work than what I do, or what the people here who take out the trash, mop the floors, and scrub the toilets do.

I'm guessing that most of you guys work in an office setting given your ability to respond to my posts during worktime hours. How is what you right-wingers all do work and what I do not work when we probably have very similar tasks? I'm guessing we are all sitting in front of computers sorting through screens full of numbers, correct?

Real work is actually EARNING money instead of getting it for free. I am not talking about the unfortunate people that are recieving unemployment benefits and looking for work. I don't care what anyone does as long as they are working, a job is a job, but sometimes you do in fact need more than one income.

I have worked in a machine shop since i was 12 years old, paying taxes and all. It is a manual labor job. Yes it is a family business, a family business that i now run and hope to get to leave to my son and my much younger brother. I am able to message back so quickly because for the most part i have a computer close by. I work from 4:30 am to 4:00 pm six to seven days a week.

As far as me being a right winger TSIFTW has it right. Most people would think that i should be a liberal because of my childhood but my single mom NEVER received any form of welfare she did work at a minimum of two jobs and most of the time three(this was before we moved to georgia and before she joined the family business.) She instilled in me the desire to work and earn my own way.

I don't believe religion has any place in politics. I'm pro-choice. I believe in equal rights for all Americans. I don't have any quams with gay and lesbians getting married, etc.

I don't believe that the government belongs in my personal life. I am a firm believer in the second amendment. I think the public education system is garbage and in more need of an overhaul than health care. And most of all am against all forms of entitlement programs and free welfare, remember though i have posted before that i am not opposed to a welfare to work type system.

I consider myself a conservative independent.

[preferredduck]

Which one of you guys painted swastikas at David Scott's office earlier this week? I know it was probably someone on IA considering how much this place loves Glenn Beck and Alex Jones

that guy from valkyrie did it.

[zspeed24]

^X2

[preferredduck]

I can almost afford health insurance. Really I could afford it now, but I would have to go on food stamps. Eventually I will get to the point where I can afford it, once I get my degree in December and hopefully the pay-grade increase (or a move to a better job) that comes with it for Fy '11.

I wouldn't mind paying a small premium, maybe 1/2 or even 3/4 what the insurance my employer offers costs. I am not expecting to get something for free.

sadly most supporters of the plan don't have a brain and think it is going to be free. did you guys know that BCBS and UHC underwrite all medicare claims and some medicaid claims. this is why im saying the price may go down but there will be more denials of service. take my neck for example, i have a pinched nerve at c5-c6 which causes a constant headache. with my insurance that i paid $360/month for for just me i could not get approved for trigger point injections which in turn would mean less medicine i have to take daily. watch the movie sicko and see some of the other things denied by insurance. and let me tell you to the gov't it will be the bottom line on who lives and who dies and after a certain age we cost them money.

i am very glad this bill was not pushed through before recess and we the people actually have time to read it. i mean it's alot of $$.

this is what i mean by everyone thinks it will be free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8...layer_embedded

[preferredduck]

Why should the govt. have to pay for even part of your health care or your food for that matter. If you cannot afford the things you need shouldn't you work harder find a better paying job or maybe even work a second part time job.

well when unemployment is at 20% then it becomes harder to find a job. i know 4 people who have college degrees and are working at fast food joints because there are no jobs, just like there is no spoon.

[preferredduck]

I hear you the abusers need to be dropped off the Life Support System our government has put in place. The ones who need it can stay on it. It is upsetting, almost as upsetting as a fat person on the scooters in Walmart, or wait as equally upsetting. U.S. has gotten out of control with this type of stuff....

you can start doing this by going through loan folders at world finance. when i worked there a few years ago 70% of our customers were in dissability b/c their anti-depression meds made them drowsy. BS i had one guy tell me that since i take pain meds i could do it to but guess what i don't. i only take oxycodone, soma, and valium for a pinched nerve in my neck and work just fine.

[preferredduck]

....before I go. I'll let you know what I do. I am in the Army, and this week we are prepping for Iraq. Is that a worthy occupation? It was my lunch break; my time to check what new tasks needed to be done and ofcourse I get to check this out. But hopefully my job is a REAL WORKING job, maybe not, I don't know......

no way man thats not a real job!! j/k on that that is a tough and deadly job and is severly underpaid even with the hazard pay. my dad is retired military and the pay sucked until he became an E-9. good luck in iraq and if you can geton IA do so i hear they are getting rid of facebook and twitter for the troops. something about censoring info the troops get over there. good luck man.

[ultm8mind]

I will if I can....

[preferredduck]

I will if I can....

i hope so man. i know two people who have been to iraq and they both are in afghan right now and it really sucks because sometimes i wonder if some "insurgents" are not just really pissed off natives who want us out and would not be fighting if we were not there. think about it if the same thing happened in the US. hell they are already calling anyone in the NRA, likes the 2nd amendment, etc a domestic terrorist or we are in a militia group.

[David88vert]

One of the problems with our health car system is the insurance costs. Part of the reason that costs are so high is because people do not understand what insurance is actually for.
If you go to get your oil changed, should your insurance company pay for it? What about a tune-up? New tires? No, of course not, those are maintenance items, and people understand that you pay that out of pockets.
Amazingly, these are the same people that think that normal checkups should be 100% reimbursed.
The reality is that if everyone chose insurance that would cover major problems/surgery, and they paid the regular office visits, small non-critical emergencies, etc., out of pocket, they would pay a LOT less for insurance.

[BanginJimmy]

One of the problems with our health car system is the insurance costs. Part of the reason that costs are so high is because people do not understand what insurance is actually for.
If you go to get your oil changed, should your insurance company pay for it? What about a tune-up? New tires? No, of course not, those are maintenance items, and people understand that you pay that out of pockets.
Amazingly, these are the same people that think that normal checkups should be 100% reimbursed.
The reality is that if everyone chose insurance that would cover major problems/surgery, and they paid the regular office visits, small non-critical emergencies, etc., out of pocket, they would pay a LOT less for insurance.

I agree that if those that could afford it would start using a major medical plan would significantly lower costs, but that is only a portion of the issue. I would also like to see more insurance companies offering husband and wife only plans. That would also significantly lower my insurance costs. I am looking at the same rates for me and the wife as someone with a family of 6 is paying.

You have indigent care at hospitals. Hospitals spend alot of money to get people better even though they know they will never be paid for the services. This is something that will never go away.

Medicare. Most doctors that accept medicare are not paid the real costs of the services. That is illegal price fixing at its finest. These docs are then forced to raise rates on private insurance to recove the losses incurred by accepting medicare.

Torts. With the HUGE judgments coming down in malpractice suits docs are forced to keep insane amounts of coverage. The insurance companies also know this and they charge heavily for that coverage. Here is an article from 2002 about OBGYN's in rural areas that paints the picture.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/ric/ricpubs/RHNsprsum02.htm


Add all of these things together and then add it govt control and all I can see is one simple time line.

1. Govt option is introduced
2. most companies drop private insurance and pay the flat 8% fine instead of the added taxes on health benefits AND paying for health benefits.
3. The govt cannot afford everyone in the system so they start cutting payments.
4. A shortage of docs because of the far lower salaries, increased insurance costs, higher workload.
5. Fraudulent companies spring up everywhere, just like the are with medicare. Fraud alone tops 100B a year. (about 2/3rds of what Obama says healthcare will cost in total)
6. Massive rationing measures have to be taken. Put simply, by the time you reach retirement age, and you are no longer a contributing member of society, a member of Obama's medical advisory panel, Ezekiel Emanuel, thinks you should be cut off from medical care other than pain meds.

[David88vert]

Now Obama is setting up to possibly backpedal on the government-run health care plan.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/200...-his-left.html

[BanginJimmy]

You have cabinet members saying just about everything right now. I dont think anyone knows where this is going and I think Obama is simply playing both sides. I also think that this could be the straw that defeats nationalized healthcare though. No one on the democratic side wants to be left on the wrong side of this and no one knows which way it will go yet.