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Thread: Self Defense or Excessive Force?

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    Default Self Defense or Excessive Force?

    In a nutshell, 2 young men come in to rob a pharmacy when the pharmacist shoots one in the head and chases the other out the store. The problem comes in when he comes back in the store, grabs another gun and fires 5 more shots into the guy he shot in the head. I'll keep my personal opinion to myself.. I just want to see the responses.

    Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.

    Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero.
    District Attorney David Prater said Ersland was justified in shooting 16-year-old Antwun Parker once in the head, but not in firing the additional shots into his belly. The prosecutor said the teenager was unconscious, unarmed, lying on his back and posing no threat when Ersland fired what the medical examiner said were the fatal shots.

    Anthony Douglas, president of the Oklahoma chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, called it an "execution-style murder" and praised the district attorney for bringing charges. Ersland is white; the two suspects were black.

    Parker's parents also expressed relief that Ersland faces a criminal charge.

    "He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.
    Ok I do have to say that last quote by the mother is everything that is wrong with America and specifically the black race in America.. the boy was robbing a store and she's upset that he was shot, even if it was 5 times.

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    Self Defense. If you are shooting to kill in fear of your life there is nothing wrong with making sure the job is done.

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    Eh he shoulda just made the shot count the first time and left it at that. Infact he should have shot both of them right hte first time.

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    I say it's self defense. I think the five shots after were not needed if the man was neutralized after the first shot to the head, but there still should be no charges brought upon him.

    If you're going to try and rob someone, expect consequences, such as death..

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony
    In a nutshell, 2 young men come in to rob a pharmacy when the pharmacist shoots one in the head and chases the other out the store. The problem comes in when he comes back in the store, grabs another gun and fires 5 more shots into the guy he shot in the head. I'll keep my personal opinion to myself.. I just want to see the responses.





    Ok I do have to say that last quote by the mother is everything that is wrong with America and specifically the black race in America.. the boy was robbing a store and she's upset that he was shot, even if it was 5 times.
    The clerk could have ended the treat in a different matter, but I could understand were the mother is coming from since her child was already laid out. The owner didn't have to shoot the robber several more times.. knowing he could of search the robber without risk. This just seems that it might turn racial..

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    Quote Originally Posted by green91
    Eh he shoulda just made the shot count the first time and left it at that. Infact he should have shot both of them right hte first time.
    Indeed. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for the criminals. He knew the risks when he walked into that place to rob it. Had it been the other way around and they shot the pharmacist came back and shot him again it would be because of their "troubled up-bringing".

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    how'd he live with a shot in the head? if took 5 more shots for it to be fatal?

    Oh yea, self defense.

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    Crooked politics.. the medial examiner said the second set of shots were the fatal ones.

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    i dont feel sorry for the for the boy that got shot,i feel sorry for the mom that lost her son,cause he was a dumbass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Simpson
    how'd he live with a shot in the head?
    It happens. The guy was Wolverine apparently
    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Simpson
    if took 5 more shots for it to be fatal?

    Oh yea, self defense.
    Indeed.

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    Indeed it does happen. It could've been mostly a graze instead of a direct hit.

    I don't know why he felt he needed to finish the guy off. Maybe his head was so fucked up the guy felt bad and decided to just finish it. Or maybe he wanted to rid the world of criminals one at a time.

    As for the mother..It's all her fault, she should probably just end her life as well. [/sarcasm]

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    I say excessive force. I agree with the the conclusion from the DA and med examiner. The initial round was fired in self defense but the additional 5, which caused the fatality, were fired when he clearly wasn't a threat. I don't see that as self defense, no matter how much the scumbag is in the wrong. I do however strongly disagree with the murder one charge.


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    Initially when I posted this I felt the robber got what he asked for but after shooting someone in the head I think you've neutralized the threat. Murder in the 1st degree? ehh.. I think that is a bit harsh.

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    First shot, self defense, no one will argue that. I guess he should have fire 1 or 2 more into him on the way out the door, then he would have been good.

    Shots 2-6, excessive, but 1st degree murder is just as excessive. 2nd degree man slaughter would fit better. My guess is that the murder charges are because of the NAACP making this a racial issue.

    Criminal's mother, piece of shit. The only thing she forgot to do was tell us how her son was such a good boy. The kid deserved what he got, but the manner in which it was done was wrong. I do feel sorry for this guy though. 2 pieces of shit put him in that situation now he will suffer the consequences for handling it poorly.

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    Assuming the first shot was non-fatal - Criminal lives, sues pharmacist (and with today's courts) wins every penny that guy will ever make.

    Pump 5 more rounds

    Assuming the first shot was fatal - What more harm can a couple ounces of lead do?

    Pump 5 more rounds

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    If the pharmacist gets off, I'll bet no-one tries to rob that store again...

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    self defense all day. that piece of shit kid and his mother both deserved it. i feel absolutely NO sympathy for this kid for robbing a store and getting his dumb ass killed. the pharmacist being charged for an incident that he didn't start is complete bullshit.
    Who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echonova
    Indeed. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for the criminals. He knew the risks when he walked into that place to rob it. Had it been the other way around and they shot the pharmacist came back and shot him again it would be because of their "troubled up-bringing".

    The only flaw in that logic is the fact that a parent wouldn't take that much responsibility.

    It would sound more like," he was such a good kid. It was all the rap music and video games or the crowd he associated with."
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony
    Initially when I posted this I felt the robber got what he asked for but after shooting someone in the head I think you've neutralized the threat. Murder in the 1st degree? ehh.. I think that is a bit harsh.
    I agree. Later, QD.
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    Self defense. The final shots are considered a mercy kill to end the pain of the initial shot. Its just a shame that the second one got away.
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    excessive, but who cares since he was a criminal. 1 less blk idiot that can spread his seed and produce more idiots.
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    This one reads a tad diffferent

    A little before 6:00 p.m., last Tuesday, two armed men rushed into the Reliable Discount Pharmacy in Oklahoma City, and demanded money and drugs. The store had been robbed two years earlier, a robbery in which the store’s employees had been forced into a back room and severely beaten.

    However, this time the store had a security system with doors armed with magnetic locks, which could only be opened from the inside. The masked-men apparently knew this and waited for someone to exit, at which time they pushed a board in front of the closing door and rushed into the pharmacy.

    Once inside, they demanded all of the cash and narcotics, two female technicians ran into the back room. But the pharmacist, Jerome Ersland who wears a large back brace, and is still recovering from recent surgery, could not run. But he could defend himself.

    The robbers began shooting at him, with one bullet grazing him on the arm, he said he heard another round whiz past his ear.

    Ersland recalled: "All of a sudden, they started shooting. They were attempting to kill me, but they didn’t know I had a gun. They said, ‘You’re gonna die.’ That’s when one of them shot at me, and that’s when he got my hand.”

    Ersland grabbed the semi-automatic Kel-Tec .380 in his pocket.

    "And that’s when I started defending myself,” he said. "The first shot got him in the head, and that slowed him down so I could get my other gun.”

    Ersland also kept a much larger pistol in a nearby drawer, which he was able to retrieve, a Taurus Judge revolver. At that point, the second robber took off. However, the other robber was now getting up off of the floor, despite the head wound.

    Ersland emptied his clip into the chest of the wounded robber, who turned out to be 16-year-old Antwun Parker.

    "I went after the other guy, but he was real fast and I’m crippled,” said Ersland. Once outside, he saw a third black male sitting in a car with what appeared to be a shotgun.

    Ersland said: "I pulled out my ‘Judge’ and pointed it right between his eyes and he floored it.”

    Police arrested the man in the car which turned out to be stolen, after he crashed it a few blocks away. The other robber is still at large, he is described as a black male in his 20s, 5 feet, 7 inches tall, and weighing 175 pounds. The suspect was last seen wearing a red shirt and dark pants.

    Ersland went back into the store and found his two technicians safe but shaken.

    Ersland said: "I asked if the girls were all right, and they were in the back crying. I was glad to know they were alive. We were lucky and I’m glad I defended us, because I feel that a person has a right to defend themselves at their home or at their work. People deserve to be safe and not be afraid of people that want to take money when they don’t work for it.”

    As if the attempted robbery was not enough, an angry black mob gathered outside the pharmacy later that night, shouting and accusing Ersland of being a racist because he had killed the teenaged thug, who was black.

    "I just regret anybody would get killed. But if I wouldn’t have been here, there would have been three people killed — the other pharmacist and the two techs.”

    "I was able to return fire and protect the girls’ lives. God was helping me.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by koukis14
    This one reads a tad diffferent
    Reps and the plot thickens...

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    Quote Originally Posted by koukis14
    This one reads a tad diffferent
    Yeah I would say that reads a little different. The first reads like a left wing columnist wrote it and the second reads like a NRA member wrote it.

    I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

    Bottom line if the kid even wiggled like he was going to get up I would have unloaded on him.
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    If the second article is accurate, charging this guy with murder is beyond ignorant. If anything, this guy should be given an award for ridding the American public of a menace free of charge.

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    Its funny, I search for the text of the second version of the story and all that comes up are sites that for gun owners and right wingers, the quote I posted came from ABC News. Seriously some people will go to great lengths to push their agenda.

    I'd love to be biased seeing as how the man is retired Air Force but that doesn't mean I'll alter the story in support of the guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
    If the second article is accurate, charging this guy with murder is beyond ignorant. If anything, this guy should be given an award for ridding the American public of a menace free of charge.

    I knew we would agree on something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by koukis14
    This one reads a tad diffferent
    God was helping me. Always works.

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    now that you read about the two versions of the incident heres the vid
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eed_1243733340

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    the dead robber and the convicted pharmacist deserves it

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    State NAACP president Anthony Douglas says the judicial system should be allowed to run its course and the organization won't take sides on Ersland's guilt or innocence

    This made me laugh. People act like the NAACP is a legitimate organization when anyone with half a brain knows that it is just a mouthpiece for blaming whitey.


    BTW, that video doesnt show anything. So I will stand by my original statements. If the kid wasnt a treat the pharmacist needs to be charged, although 1st degree murder is excessive. If the kid was getting up, then this guys should get an award.

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    Shit..If the guy really did have a Judge, 5 shots weren't needed. With 410 shells in a revolver,one could do the job. Doesn't look like he shot the guy 5 times in the vid either...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
    This made me laugh. People act like the NAACP is a legitimate organization when anyone with half a brain knows that it is just a mouthpiece for blaming whitey.

    There is so much socially wrong with that statement I wouldn't know where to start breaking it down.. but it wouldn't matter anyway. I guess the Civil Rights movement was oppressive to whitey too huh?

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    just sucks either way, but he was getting robbed so i dont beleive he should be charged with anything at all.
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    the video shows robbers coming in guns drawn. it doesn't look like he stood over him and uloaded 5 rounds, where's the blood splatter if he was that close. 1st degree murderr is too harsh for this. and if the story is different than whay the kids mother told then this man should not go to jail. Narcotics is big $$ these days.
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    It's unfortunate but the kid probably was moving and it that type of situation one armed thug could mean the other one is armed too. It happened pretty fast too. Your adrenaline takes over. So would you even take a chance to frisk the other guy if he is still moving?

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    bullshit. it's like the homeowners who are getting sued for shooting burglars caught in the act of breaking into their house..

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony
    There is so much socially wrong with that statement I wouldn't know where to start breaking it down.. but it wouldn't matter anyway. I guess the Civil Rights movement was oppressive to whitey too huh?

    Then let me rephrase, because this has nothing to do with the civil rights movement.


    State NAACP president Anthony Douglas says the judicial system should be allowed to run its course and the organization won't take sides on Ersland's guilt or innocence
    This made me laugh. People act like the current version NAACP is a legitimate organization when anyone with half a brain knows that it is just a mouthpiece for blaming whitey.


    Tony, we both know the NAACP's stance on this case. The guy is white and he shot a black kid, The white guy is at fault.

    You show me one case where the NAACP says it was the black guys fault and the white guy did the right thing and I will edit both of my statements.

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    And you know the robbers families are all over the news saying" They ( the robbers) were getting their lives together and they were such good people".... I say honestly that it was self defense, unfortunately the issues is that by the general publics' standards ( who will more than likely never be in that situation) it looks like over kill.
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